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[BreezyLimbo]

The problem is that it's a plot point, it's the whole plot point actually, to show it to Cersei and Kings Landing. Even Dany says that you need to see it to "really know", they don't need to be trembling for the whole episode but a 10 sec shot of them in awe/shock at this supernatural stuff would have been enough. Even Jon drops to the ground when he sees a dragon for the first time.

Tormund and the others who havent seen the dragons yet seemed pretty awed when the fire factory began.

And yeah, it's like, these things exist but they dont' exist? Like sure Cersei has the Zombo Mountain, but he was never really dead, just gravely injured, and he follows commands. A mindless wight is different. It would prove that there is in fact a Night King and that they are in fact coming to kill everything indiscriminately.

This ties in to Cersei saying maybe it's better to have an armistice, then deflecting with she's pregnant. They probably haven't built enough scorpions, they just lost a key ally and most of their troops when the dragon burned them all, and they realized that with the Dothraki, Unsullied, and Dragons, Eurons ships aren't going to save her in the mainland. So she's using the opportunity to deflect into an armistice with the pretense of 'sure whatever sure me this wight and waste your time while I scheme' so that she can nurse her wounds. And even then there is the morbid curiosity of seeing it yourself. Of knowing that if this enemy is real, then everything Cersei has worked for is meaningless if after the potential war she has the Night King coming down to doom her and her city. Better to backstab a temporary ally when they're near victory then to beat somebody by the skin of your teeth and then have to deal with a potentially bigger threat.

It makes sense to me that they went on this suicide mission. For Jon, stopping the Night King is key. And even though the Lannisters killed most of his family, the bigger threat is the Night King, and if it means allying with the Lannisters, then he will do it. For them to cross the wall and to capture a wight, it's like sure, that makes sense. The bloody lords of the south want their proof, he'll go get it, because if he doesn't then they'll continue their squabbling and everyone dies.

Even Dany was like 'I had to see it'. She believed it sure, but that's like how everyone believes that atoms compromise everything. It's not until you really see it that you go 'Oh wow'. There is a skepticism there despite knowing.

As someone else said already, there's no time to stop and appreciate the fact that Dany has actually flown over the wall, it's just a thing that happens now.

tbf the wall never meant anything for dany anyways. The only places that really meant something to her in Westeros are Dragon Stone and Kings Landing. When Dany steps in Kings Landing, then you'll hear the characters be like 'She's finally home'.

 

[RoninChaos]

All the delays are occurring because GRRM is a shockingly undisciplined writer who's easily distracted, types with 1 finger and has no concept of editing. It's really got nothing to do with the show.

To add to that, the complaints everyone in this thread is expressing wouldn't even be an issue if Martin finished the books. He optioned this show to HBO in 2007. 2007. That's 10 fucking years ago. Everybody who said that Martin should hand the books off to someone else doesn't realize that he already did. He just gave it to two TV producers rather than another author. At least with the show you're getting an ending since Martin doesn't seem to be interested in writing one.

 

[Human Trashcan]

I dunno, maybe it's because I made my peace with fast travel being unlocked on this show a while ago, but I mostly enjoyed that episode a lot, aside from Arya being frustratingly idiotic. Spectacle is pretty much the only thing the show has done well this season and the episode delivered. The plotting was nonsensical but that's the way it's been all season. The Sindragosa moment made me go "oh nooooooo". The stakes are now clear to all the major players except Cersei.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

To add to that, the complaints everyone in this thread is expressing wouldn't even be an issue if Martin finished the books. He optioned this show to HBO in 2007. 2007. That's 10 fucking years ago. Everybody who said that Martin should hand the books off to someone else doesn't realize that he already did. He just gave it to two TV producers rather than another author. At least with the show you're getting an ending since Martin doesn't seem to be interested in writing one.

Right, and there are people saying 'well martin is playing 20D chess and he's going to write a better ending when the shows finished'.

Yeeeeah no. I don't think so, tim. Gurm has been known to take his time writing a book even before the show was a thing. And now that he has a spotlight and he's globetrotting all the time? I don't think he'll really get a chance to finish writing the book.

 

[Fisico]

So about the preview

Spoiler

Almost Everyone is at/near King's Landing now even the Greyjoy and the Unsullied, even fucking Podrick despite Brienne saying that Podrick should stay in Winterfell and Sansa agreeing, or maybe I dreamt that?
Well Tormund stayed and at Eastwatch, Beric left for god knows where (Sandor seems to be with Jon & cie and we got a goodbye chat between Beric and Sandor last episode) and Gendry is sleeping at Eastwatch or something after his super hardcore winter trail.

The big thing though is the lack of Dany in that preview, despite its whole army being there as well as Theon, Jorah, Varys, Tyrion, Grey Worm and even Missandei.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

So about the preview

Spoiler

Almost Everyone is at/near King's Landing now even the Greyjoy and the Unsullied, even fucking Podrick despite Brienne saying that Podrick should stay in Winterfell and Sansa agreeing, or maybe I dreamt that?
Well Tormund stayed and at Eastwatch, Beric left for god knows where (Sandor seems to be with Jon & cie and we got a goodbye chat between Beric and Sandor last episode) and Gendry is sleeping at Eastwatch or something after his super hardcore winter trail.

The big thing though is the lack of Dany in that preview, despite its whole army being there as well as Theon, Varys, Tyrion, Grey Worm and even Missandei.

Spoiler

I'm sure Dany will show up in her dragon in order to show off.

 

[Sanctuary]

Tormund and the others who havent seen the dragons yet seemed pretty awed when the fire factory began.

We don't get to see their faces when the first bombardment happens, but when they finally pan back to the characters, Tourmund is practically slack-jawed and Jorah is the only other character looking up (but he's more like "Hey guys, good to see you again!"). Still, when you are surrounded by enemies, you can't be wasting time looking up, so it made sense that the others were still surveilling the surrounding area.

As someone else said already, there's no time to stop and appreciate the fact that Dany has actually flown over the wall, it's just a thing that happens now.

Not exactly the same, but on a related note, I told my friend that the wall no longer really matters now against the undead army. They can simply demolish Castle Black with the dragon, or just have the dragon ferry enough over it to raise the portcullis. Dany practically gave them the key to victory.

Although with a most likely emptied, open torso, the logistics of the dragon ever flying again elude me. Magic?

 

[Fisico]

Spoiler

I'm sure Dany will show up in her dragon in order to show off.

Spoiler

That would be a very stupid thing to do if they mass produced scorpions (and they most likely did), so yeah it could happen.

 

[toddhunter]

This was some star trek level bullshit.

Oh shit someone just died! Wait, who was it? The fuck is that guy, where did he come from?

 

[Apt101]

QB: Night King
RB: Gendry
WR: Viserion
Dumbass: Jon Snow

 

[Kain]

Oh yeah,

"That's the only White Walker that matters, kill him and the war is over".

"Yes I see him, he's over there like 50 meters away and he just missed a shot with that fancy spear of his, let's run away now before he... dunno, throws a snowball or something. That sounds logical"

"But he's just there, just roast him!"

"Nope, we still have one more season to go, we can't kill the big baddie yet!"

How could they fuck this up so badly? Seriously.

 

[duckroll]

Oh yeah,

"That's the only White Walker that matters, kill him and the war is over".

"Yes I see him, he's over there like 50 meters away and he just missed a shot with that fancy spear of his, let's run away now before he... dunno, throws a snowball or something. That sounds logical"

"But he's just there, just roast him!"

"Nope, we still have one more season to go, we can't kill the big baddie yet!"

How could they fuck this up so badly? Seriously.

The mission objective was "Capture a Wight" and not "Defeat the Night King" okay? That's a bonus objective for NG+.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Spoiler

I'm sure Dany will show up in her dragon in order to show off.

'Fashionably late'. It works!

 

[broncobuster]

I like how she fell in love with his plot armor

Is plot armor high valyrian for abs?

 

[duckroll]

Is plot armor high valyrian for abs?

Scars.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Next episode Jon will be like

"Wanna know how I got these scars?"

 

[beril]

Dear lord that battle was silly.
For a while I almost thought it would redeem itself by unceremoniously killing off Jon but of course it's another miraculous near miss against ridiculous odds

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

This was some star trek level bullshit.

Oh shit someone just died! Wait, who was it? The fuck is that guy, where did he come from?

yup. lol got me good so many times.

I get that there were some extras there, but man they did a poor job showcasing that.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Always bring some wildling chaff when you go on an undead hunting party.

 

[fanboi]

yup. lol got me good so many times.

I get that there were some extras there, but man they did a poor job showcasing that.

When they went out of the gate they showed several people carrying stuff

 

[Oldest Snake]

Does anyone else think the NK looks a bit goofy? I don't know if it's just really restrictive prosthetic makeup they use on the actor but just seeing his completely static face and stiff posture doing things like throwing the spear just makes him look so awkward.

 

[Duffk1ng]

Eventful as this and the last season have been, they've really completely bungled the story and the show's suffering for it. Arya's plot in particular they've completely wasted. There doesn't seem to be any consequences at all for any of the major events any more, the pacing is all over the place and major moments are just skipped over like they don't matter. Shame.

Also, why on earth did they go with "Gendry runs a marathon or four" instead of "Bran, the character whom we have established can see events far away, sees the events far away and raises the alarm"?

It would have been so much more satisfying dramatically. The Jolly Fanservice Crew would have truly believed they were all going to die with nobody knowing they were helpless out there.

Shoutout to Benjen's utterly laughable exit, that was almost as crap as Selmy's.

 

[Kuros]

If I remember correctly the book NK was a former commander of the NW (and a Stark to boot) who married a WW. I don't doubt the origin of the WW might be the same, but the character certainly isn't.

We have no idea if that is a true story or not.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Seven and eight are 13 episodes of just a rush to the finish, fuck everything else.

 

[TastyBread]

We have no idea if that is a true story or not.

I remember reading that the night king as a nights watchman saw a corpse bride or something at the top of the wall and went to her. Didn't he start sacrificing men afterwards at the nightsfort and then get killed by the starks?

It kind of adds a cool meaning to "the north remembers" - like he remembers what they did to him

 

[Ishan]

Spoiler

That would be a very stupid thing to do if they mass produced scorpions (and they most likely did), so yeah it could happen.

either is a stupid idea given how its supposed to be a "negotiation" with constraint on both sides.

also hardhome >>> this one. spoils of war was great tho ... and now our wait begins (last episodes are always mellow apart from last seasons's but i doubt anything wacko will happen on this one its a un council meeting essentially)

 

[Duffk1ng]

Yeah I thought the direction of the action was weak too, not sure if this is actually what they did, but a lot of the close up shots just looked like the characters aimlessly swinging swords and shit they CGd in later, with lots of quick cuts.

 

[PunishedOkabe]

Y'all gonna complain when GRRM put this stuff in the books as well?

1. Thinking there's going to be more books.
2. Thinking this fanfiction shit would be in the books.

 

[bratpack]

I had so much hope for this episode given the way the previous one ended, with like, the Westeros Avengers setting off to kick ass north of the Wall.

What I watched was like bad fan fiction. I have never been so aware of character plot armour, or "in the interest of time" teleporting around continents. Did I miss something or were there at least two nameless characters with them just to die they didn't have to kill off too many important people?

I was painfully aware before I saw the rest of the episode that the multitude of scenes of the Westeros Avengers trudging around and having witty exchanges was forced service. You can't have that many scenes of people just walking and chatting from different angles in such a short space of time without it coming across stupid. This is the sort of episode that should have been spaced out over two if not three episodes. As it happens, the events of the episode (bar the pointless death of Benjen) were fine. But the ridiculous speed at which things unfolded took away so much of the gravitas.

As someone else said already, there's no time to stop and appreciate the fact that Dany has actually flown over the wall, it's just a thing that happens now.

but what do you want epic music and emphasis on evey single thing Dani does in westeros
we has emphasis on Dani riding Drogon for the first time and then when she finally returned to westeros shores we got a good 5 mins of her admiring being back home with not a single word being said just dany taking it all in.

Rewatching s1 again and it's like 7 in that everything is going so quick so why is this season getting flack for this
as for someone who said this should have taken 3 episodes I just couldn't see that going down well at all

 

[Betty]

1. Thinking there's going to be more books.
2. Thinking this fanfiction shit would be in the books.

3. Thinking we'll ever get to read the books.

 

[Moff]

in the near future, there will be a museum where we will get to see the unfinished script for TWOW in a display case. Next to it will be two golden statues of D&D, smiling benevolently.

 

[Mendrox]

Oh yeah,

"That's the only White Walker that matters, kill him and the war is over".

"Yes I see him, he's over there like 50 meters away and he just missed a shot with that fancy spear of his, let's run away now before he... dunno, throws a snowball or something. That sounds logical"

"But he's just there, just roast him!"

"Nope, we still have one more season to go, we can't kill the big baddie yet!"

How could they fuck this up so badly? Seriously.

Because the obviously would have won, wouldn't they have?

lol pls.

1. Thinking there's going to be more books.
2. Thinking this fanfiction shit would be in the books.

Your expectations are too high mate.

Also what do people expect for the whole series in it's last few episodes? People dieing left and right? After book 4/ Season 3 there was nothing to be afraid of anymore.

Yeah I thought the direction of the action was weak too, not sure if this is actually what they did, but a lot of the close up shots just looked like the characters aimlessly swinging swords and shit they CGd in later, with lots of quick cuts.

Because it was exactly that. It shows in the making of and was harder to pull off than it looks.

 

[ResidentWeevil13]

Did not like this episode one bit. Episode two is still my least favorite from this season, but damn did this one give it a run for its money.

The winterfell storyline in particular is atrocious. Seems like invented to drama to fill screen time.

I was painfully aware before I saw the rest of the episode that the multitude of scenes of the Westeros Avengers trudging around and having witty exchanges was forced service. You can't have that many scenes of people just walking and chatting from different angles in such a short space of time without it coming across stupid.

This really bothered me too. It felt like a game of musical chairs, where each scene was a random pairing so two different characters could talk. And the dialog was so forced. Everyone basically repeated exposition about their character. It felt so silly.

 

[FutureLarking]

1. Thinking there's going to be more books.
2. Thinking this fanfiction shit would be in the books.

I mean why wouldn't this stuff, or stuff like it be in the books? All of that long ass build up hes bee doing is basically going to amount to"fan fiction" reunions and team ups and ass kicking, or everyone is going to feel supremely ripped off with all the build up. Only difference is the books will have more room to play it all out much slower - and has even more characters to have fan fiction moments with. What exactly are people expecting?

 

[Mix Master]

Whats with all the redshirts this episode. The fuck they come from?

 

[Timbuktu]

This really bothered me too. It felt like a game of musical chairs, where each scene was a random pairing so two different characters could talk. And the dialog was so forced. Everyone basically repeated exposition about their character. It felt so silly.

I don't mind them talking, but they shouldn't have been just walking. Even with West Wing, which mostly walk and talk, every one looked busy and had a job to do. I mean, they could have had a strategy of how to capture an undead soldier i.e. stay out of sight, scout to see where the many army is, lure a soldier way or spot and isolated group etc. This should have been a single location, feature length episode as well.

 

[whytemyke]

I will say, Tormund was awesome this episode.

Walking is good.
Fighting is better.
Fucking is best.

There's your fan boy t-shirt this season, folks.

 

[iShouldGoPro]

I will say, Tormund was awesome this episode.

Walking is good.
Fighting is better.
Fucking is best.

There's your fan boy t-shirt this season, folks.

I feel like only Tormund could pull off said shirt.
Sounds like a fucboii shirt otherwise lol

 

[Chuckie]

I feel like only Tormund could pull off said shirt.
Sounds like a fucboii shirt otherwise lol

Hahaha seriously. Nobody would get the reference and assume you are a piece of shit.

 

[John Dunbar]

i don't remember, has dany (book or show) spent any time trying to find more dragon eggs or researching dragons to find out how to get them to reproduce? you would think that would be pretty useful for "the mother of dragons."

anyway, terrible episode. will continue to hate watch.

 

[Donthizz#]

Gendry went from blacksmith to mini flash in a span of few days.

 

[Branduil]

I mean why wouldn't this stuff, or stuff like it be in the books? All of that long ass build up hes bee doing is basically going to amount to"fan fiction" reunions and team ups and ass kicking, or everyone is going to feel supremely ripped off with all the build up. Only difference is the books will have more room to play it all out much slower - and has even more characters to have fan fiction moments with. What exactly are people expecting?

I'm fairly confident that the future books, in the unlikely event they ever exist, won't involve an incredibly stupid "capture a wight and show it to Cersei" subplot.

 

[dosh]

Having watched the making of video, I almost feel like the very Jon Peters-esque "I WANT MY FUCKING ZOMBIE POLAR BEAR" was the main concern for the writers.
Once they were good to go on that part, everything else didn't really matter. They had their fucking zombie polar bear and all was right in the world.

They still ace the visual part though: beautiful vistas beautifully shot all the way.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Gendry went from blacksmith to mini flash in a span of few days.

What does this even mean? He's young and fitter than most of the people in that party. Without the hammer he'll undoubtedly be able to run faster and for much longer.

 

[Kain]

We have no idea if that is a true story or not.

It's a more or less safe bet as most of the myths in the books turned out to be real. But fair enough, it could be just a myth, you're right

The characters are still different, though.

I'm still hoping for Stannis to be the next NK lol

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

I'm fairly confident that the future books, in the unlikely event they ever exist, won't involve an incredibly stupid "capture a wight and show it to Cersei" subplot.

The book had an entire pov character devoted to pointing out what happens when you attempt stupid heroic plans. People acting like they'll be no different to the show are nuts.

 

[Sanctuary]

When they went out of the gate they showed several people carrying stuff

Many need to rewatch the scenes surrounding the hunting party. I just did myself, and upon first viewing it seemed like the three that died simply spawned at the appropriate times to die (I already knew that they had brought more with them than just the "heroes", but they were so irrelevant that they kind of turned into background noise). I think the issue is that you're so focused (as is the camera most of the time) on the primary characters that you either lose track of them, or simply care so little that you forget about the randoms.

What threw my friend and I off was how random the bear attack was. If you rewatch the scene, the scout was like a hundred yards away from the bear, and a bit closer to the group (unless they just have telescopic vision). Yet as he runs back, he gets t-boned from nowhere. That made it seem like it was a completely different person, but it was just a nonsensical angle shown. When they draw their weapons, he can't be more than sixty feet away from them, with no bear in sight. So they could all somehow see the bear when it was way farther out, but couldn't see it when it was right next to them?

Like seriously, rewatch that scene specifically. It's pretty silly overall.

 

[GaryD]

Not even a query about where the horse came from..

 

[Chuckie]

i don't remember, has dany (book or show) spent any time trying to find more dragon eggs or researching dragons to find out how to get them to reproduce? you would think that would be pretty useful for "the mother of dragons."

anyway, terrible episode. will continue to hate watch.

I kind of assumed they were all male.

 

[Violater]

Bran is going to warg into the dead dragon, believe!