Support NeoGAF

[7he Talon]

How do the fire swords work? Is it magic or some sort of oil?

 

[Sanctuary]

How do the fire swords work? Is it magic or some sort of oil?

Friend asked me that too, and I said that I assumed it was just a gift from the Lord of Light (thinking it could have been an oil too). If it was that easy to do, more people would probably be doing it. Plus, when he set the sword in the snow, the fire pretty much instantly extinguished.

I thought they showed something similar with Stannis on the beach though?

 

[duckroll]

How do the fire swords work? Is it magic or some sort of oil?

Low level elemental damage boost. I think it's 5 MP per cast or something, lasts a couple of turns.

 

[Kain]

How do the fire swords work? Is it magic or some sort of oil?

I always assumed it was just a cheap trick.

 

[Sanctuary]

I always assumed it was just a cheap trick.

Like resurrecting someone five times, or giving birth to a shadow monster right?

 

[Oldest Snake]

How do the fire swords work? Is it magic or some sort of oil?

Thoros used Wildfire to set his sword on fire during Tourneys before he joined the BwB, but Beric (apparently) used his own blood to do it during his fight with The Hound, where we see him run his hand up the blade as it sets aflame. We don't really know the mechanics behind it and they seemed to just burst into flames in E06.

 

[7he Talon]

Friend asked me that too, and I said that I assumed it was just a gift from the Lord of Light (thinking it could have been an oil too). If it was that easy to do, more people would probably be doing it. Plus, when he set the sword in the snow, the fire pretty much instantly extinguished.

I thought they showed something similar with Stannis on the beach though?

I thought it was just a gift from the Lord of Light too, but still not 100% sure. Either way, they're badass

Low level elemental damage boost. I think it's 5 MP per cast or something, lasts a couple of turns.

Bloody mages.

Thoros used Wildfire to set his sword on fire during Tourneys before he joined the BwB, but Beric (apparently) used his own blood to do it during his fight with The Hound. We don't really know the mechanics behind it and they seemed to just burst into flames in E06.

It looked like he sliced his own hand with it before he lit it up to burn the body. Maybe it is just his blood coming to contact with the blade?

 

[dosh]

How do the fire swords work? Is it magic or some sort of oil?

The book stated that Thoros' sword was drenched in oil, but who knows at that point. Fast travel, fire swords, ice dragons, no game over as long as the characters have these sweet deus ex machina power-ups. We're in video game territory now. I fully expect unlockable costumes by the end of the season.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Watching all these tv critics lambast the show for this episode makes me wonder what show they thought they were watching for the last few years

 

[Turin]

Beric uses blood from his hand to ignite the sword in the books but in the show it looks more like a motion ritual.

 

[Kain]

Like resurrecting someone five times, or giving birth to a shadow monster right?

Ressurrecting Beric was an accident and he has no clue how it happened and the flaming sword comes from his times of whoring and drinking with Robert, so, who knows?

 

[burgervan]

Watching all these tv critics lambast the show for this episode makes me wonder what show they thought they were watching for the last few years

One that's not as dumb as this episode.

 

[John Dunbar]

Beric uses blood from his hand to ignite the sword in the books but in the show it looks more like a motion ritual.

i thought it was a trick with wildfire in the books?

 

[Intheflorsh]

Remember when Tyrion wasn't just an idiot naysayer?

 

[WrenchNinja]

One that's not as dumb as this episode.

It's been this dumb for a while though

 

[Sanctuary]

Ok, it appears that either they did happen to spawn a few red shirts, or you just never saw them yet, but they were always there. During the scene where they form a circle to fight the bear, there are twelve of them. One just died before that. I only ever counted three extras with a potential fourth.

Jorah
Jon
Sandor
Tormund
Gendry
Beic
Thoros
At least two randoms
???

Ressurrecting Beric was an accident and he has no clue how it happened and the flaming sword comes from his times of whoring and drinking with Robert, so, who knows?

Beric does it too though. He also happens to be the one in this episode that prominently does it. Anyway, in the bear scene you can't really tell what they are doing. They do a swiping motion away from their blades at the same time with their left hands. They both are wearing gloves too.

 

[Turin]

i thought it was a trick with wildfire in the books?

I honestly can't recall anything about wildfire but it might be in there somewhere. I don't think that was the case with Beric though. Arya describes Beric slowly scraping his hand against a sword and blood covering the blade. Then it ignites.

 

[John Dunbar]

Ok, it appears that either they did happen to spawn a few red shirts, or you just never saw them yet, but they were always there. During the scene where they form a circle to fight the bear, there are twelve of them. One just died before that. I only ever counted three extras with a potential fourth.

Jorah
Jon
Sandor
Tormund
Gendry
Beic
Thoros
At least two randoms
???

i counted 10 when they did that lotr walk up the mountain at the beginning, but i am not good at math.

 

[duckroll]

The unnamed wildlings are just AI controlled bots that spawn during battles and event scenes to make it feel more epic.

 

[MisterR]

The book had an entire pov character devoted to pointing out what happens when you attempt stupid heroic plans. People acting like they'll be no different to the show are nuts.

Yep, the books, should we ever actually get them, will be much different.

 

[jett]

Exactly why all the delays are occurring. He's trying to match it up as much as possible. He needs to figure out the reasons (side stories) where some of the characters deviate from book and show and bring them together with what we are watching. It's happening.

lol

People that have not read the books really have no business saying this kind of thing. Literally impossible for a lot of the stuff in the show to happen in the books.

 

[burgervan]

It's been this dumb for a while though

Not quite this dumb. And the dumb has never been so concentrated. This was an entire episode of nothing but dumb.

 

[John Dunbar]

am i mistaken that the only nude scenes this season have been missandei/grey worm and jaime bum/cersei body double? this is unacceptable, i was promised tits and dragons.

 

[Byakuya769]

Watching all these tv critics lambast the show for this episode makes me wonder what show they thought they were watching for the last few years

Same. Long overdue.

 

[Sanctuary]

i counted 10 when they did that lotr walk up the mountain at the beginning, but i am not good at math.

That's what I'm saying. There should have only been two extras left, but somehow there were three more that we never counted.

Watching all these tv critics lambast the show for this episode makes me wonder what show they thought they were watching for the last few years

I don't recall the series having so many dubious scenes one right after the other in every episode of any season prior though. No one is arguing that the show doesn't have tropes and silly stuff. It's just never been as glaringly obvious as it's been lately. Still, for pure spectacle anyway it's been hard to beat.

 

[duckroll]

lol

People that have not read the books really have no business saying this kind of thing. Literally impossible for a lot of the stuff in the show to happen in the books.

It is also impossible for the books to finish in our lifetimes. So....

 

[Majmun]

Gendry turning into Hermes and Dany spawning at the battle made this episode a joke.

But I still liked it. Ravens are basically emails now and Westeros is the size if Monaco. This thought makes it feel more bearable

 

[Sanctuary]

Gendry turning into Hermes and Dany spawning at the battle made this episode a joke.

But I still liked it. Ravens are basically emails now and Westeros is the size if Monaco. This thought makes it feel more bearable

When he started running, I said "Yep, he's definitely going to win the 500 mile dash at the next event". When my friend said "What the fuck?" when he appeared at Castle Black, I mentioned that the group is really only in the back yard.

 

[Majmun]

When he started running, I said "Yep, he's definitely going to win the 500 mile dash at the next event". When my friend said "What the fuck?" when he appeared at Castle Black, I mentioned that the group is really only in the back yard.

Good thing he didn't take his hammer. That would cause a 5min delay!

 

[Sanctuary]

Good thing he didn't take his hammer. That would cause a 5min delay!

Like another person getting on a horse right?

 

[SprachBrooks]

What the fuck was Bran doing? Could it have been him that sent Benjen to save Jon?

 

[duckroll]

Like another person getting on a horse right?

If you think of the show as a turn based game, it makes a lot more sense.

 

[Cellbomber]

lol

People that have not read the books really have no business saying this kind of thing. Literally impossible for a lot of the stuff in the show to happen in the books.

Read the books and I really feel its going to happen. I'm not saying it's going to be a 1 for 1 but the stories that are different he will look at bringing to a close and getting the characters in line as much as possible with the show. It's not like he wouldn't just leave stories hang out there with no explanation.

 

[Sanctuary]

If you think of the show as a turn based game, it makes a lot more sense.

No it doesn't, and I understand why he did what he did, but it was still just a guess that the horse couldn't carry both of them back in time. Besides, Benjen's body heat could have helped Jon maybe? Plus LOL drama.

 

[duckroll]

No it doesn't, and I understand why he did what he did, but it was still just a guess that the horse couldn't carry both of them back in time. Besides, Benjen's body heat could have helped Jon maybe?

1 unit on horse means you can move 6 squares per turn. 2 units on horse mean you can move 4 squares per turn. Do the math!

 

[Faddy]

No it doesn't, and I understand why he did what he did, but it was still just a guess that the horse couldn't carry both of them back in time. Besides, Benjen's body heat could have helped Jon maybe?

What body heat? Benjen's dead.

 

[Sanctuary]

What body heat? Benjen's dead.

Heh, good point. When he appeared I actually forgot that he was supposed to be undead. Well, I thought he was supposed to be and then assumed I remembered that wrong.

1 unit on horse means you can move 6 squares per turn. 2 units on horse mean you can move 4 squares per turn. Do the math!

If you want to be technical, a horse with no units should have been able to move 8 squares per turn then. And? Maybe Benjen would have just exploded anyway once he crossed the threshold of whatever magic is keeping him alive. Err, undead. Whatever.

 

[broncobuster]

If maps are to believed, Dragonstone to where they were at beyond the wall is comparable to Dragonstone to Meereen. Ignoring that it's like thousands of miles, Dany can go check on Daario and the situation in Meereen in about an afternoon.

 

[btrboyev]

They could have easily just had Dany feel guilty about sending the men off while she sits and does nothing and go out on her own. It would have avoided the entire time warp thing altogether. It would have still been plot armour, but at least it wouldn't be as dumb.

 

[duckroll]

If you want to be technical, a horse with no units should have been able to move 8 squares per turn then. And?

Well the mission objective is "Get Jon Snow to the target square" and not "Get the horse to the target square"...

If maps are to believed, Dragonstone to where they were at beyond the wall is comparable to Dragonstone to Meereen. Ignoring that it's like thousands of miles, Dany can go check on Daario and the situation in Meereen in about an afternoon.

She did. She didn't like what she saw. So now she wants Jon to bend the "knee" for her.

 

[FutureLarking]

What body heat? Benjen's dead.

Show never explained how Benjen survived in the first place did it? Maybe he'll magically come back next season

 

[REV 09]

To me the biggest issue of this season is that it's only 7 episodes. They have plenty of material to let some of these events simmer and build up without rushing things. I liked the stuff beyond the wall, but the Winterfell storyline hasn't been strong this season.

 

[Sanctuary]

Well the mission objective is "Get Jon Snow to the target square" and not "Get the horse to the target square"...

In a world of teleporting armies and raven-o-grams, the horse should have simply spawned fire under its hooves and flown.

I have zero faith that they actually know how to write for these characters without a baseline from the texts in the books, so it's probably better that they do not bother.

I think we're getting the best of what they can do.

This is exactly what it seems like. I also felt extremely doubtful with the announcement of the five spinoff projects (one of which will get made, two at best).

 

[Aiii]

To me the biggest issue of this season is that it's only 7 episodes. They have plenty of material to let some of these events simmer and build up without rushing things. I liked the stuff beyond the wall, but the Winterfell storyline hasn't been strong this season.

I have zero faith that they actually know how to write for these characters without a baseline from the texts in the books, so it's probably better that they do not bother.

I think we're getting the best of what they can do.

This is also why I have no faith in their next project handling that subject with the care it requires. You'll be expecting The Handmaid's Tale, but you'll be getting The White Slave.

 

[Apt101]

Does anyone else think the NK looks a bit goofy? I don't know if it's just really restrictive prosthetic makeup they use on the actor but just seeing his completely static face and stiff posture doing things like throwing the spear just makes him look so awkward.

He used to have a menacing demeanor. Harsh. In this episode he kind of looked spaced out or smirking. It was off putting in a bad way.

 

[danm999]

Some top shelf wheel spinning going on at Winterfell.

Either Arya and Sansa are falling for a plot so transparent Maester Aemon would be able to see it because the characters at Winterfell need something to do, or they know Littlefinger is fucking with them and don't off him immediately because uh, the characters at Winterfell need something to do.

This could all very easily be sorted out by Bran and his omniscience of course but understandably his plate is full what with being the Three Eyed Raven and fighting the Night King, as evidenced by all the support he provided Jon and his suicide squad this episode.

 

[Mendrox]

Gendry turning into Hermes and Dany spawning at the battle made this episode a joke.

But I still liked it. Ravens are basically emails now and Westeros is the size if Monaco. This thought makes it feel more bearable

For sciene and the ravens:

Since there has been a lot of contention about the speed with which the Raven and Dany fly back and forth to get to our heroes, I thought it would be fun to do some math and see if it's in any way possible. So how long would Jon and company be sitting on that rock waiting to be rescued while the ice thickens enough to support an army of undead? Here are the things we need to figure out to do so:
How long would it take Gendry to get to the wall from where they were attacked?
-I don't think they traveled very far past the wall since it is stated that they Night King was already near Eastwatch to begin with. Not to mention that the journey for our heroes seems to take place within the course of less than a day. No campfire, no nighttime. I think it would be reasonable to assume that the run back to the wall could have been done within 6 hours.
How fast and how far can a Raven fly?
-This is a little trickier since these Ravens live in a fantasy world but I think the best way to think of them is like real life carrier pigeons, which can travel up to 1100 miles at an average speed of 50MPH according to this:http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Ravens and this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homing_pigeon.
How far is it from Eastwatch to Dragonstone?
-There never seems to be a map that's perfectly accurate depending on what you read so I went with this one: http://www.sermountaingoat.co.uk/map/versions/map_canon_only.jpg. Which means that they are 1900 miles apart. Let's call it 2000 since I'm sure Raven's don't travel in a perfectly straight line.
So this means that a Raven could travel from Eastwatch to Dragonstone in 40 hours without sleeping or eating/drinking. Give it 8 hours worth of rest along the way and that puts it at an even 2 days journey.
Now, How long will it take Daenerys to do the same journey? No idea really. I can't find any solid info on how fast or how long Dragon's can fly. So I'm going to assume they can fly at least as long as Ravens and say it will take another 2 days for her to reach our heroes near Eastwatch.
Overall this means a 4 day and 6 hour period for Dany to come to the rescue. So could our heroes possible last that long on their little island? Well we don't really have anyway of marking the passage of time here, except that we know the Wights had to wait until the ice around them froze hard enough for them to walk on. SOOOO.....
How long does it take for water to freeze until it's thick enough to walk on?
-Well according to this http://www.outdoorcanada.ca/How_Fast_Does_Your_Lake_Make_Ice , if we assume that north of the wall has an average temperature of -20 F (which is anyone's guess really but we'll assume the coldest point on the chart), this would mean in 4 days the ice could have gotten up to 12 inches thick in average conditions. According to the article, this means no snow and no clouds (both of which can reduce the ice forming process by half. Since there was both snow and clouds at the time, this could mean that anywhere from 6-12 inches of ice would have formed in 4 days time.
Now is that enough to support the weight of a human being or wight?
According to http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/safety/ice/thickness.html it would take 4" of ice to be safe to go Ice fishing, 5-7" for snowmobiling, and 8-15" for various automobiles. Since we are talking about an army of undead crossing the ice and engaging in open combat I would be willing to assume we would need at least the 5-7" of ice required for snowmobiling, if not more like the 8-15" required by automobiles. All those bodies and jerky motions create alot of stress on the ice.
IN CONCLUSION:
It seems to me that the just over 4 day travel time required for Dany to to receive the Raven and fly to Eastwatch, seems to line up accurately with the amount of time it would take ice to grow enough to support an army of undead to fight on top of it in those conditions.
Thanks to D&D for doing the science : )
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to eat every fucking chicken in this sub.

Do we know how long they were on that little ice island?

 

[BetterThanNothing]

If maps are to believed, Dragonstone to where they were at beyond the wall is comparable to Dragonstone to Meereen. Ignoring that it's like thousands of miles, Dany can go check on Daario and the situation in Meereen in about an afternoon.

The only map of the world in the entire show is the carved dinner table in Dragonstone. So who knows how big Westeros really is? Without a comparison to Essos, you can't say for certain how far Dany would have to travel. How wide IS the narrow sea, really?

Just shut up and watch.

Yea, the show gave up on spacetime requirements a long time ago because a few directors/writers got lazy. This was done before they lost a framework. It makes for better spectacle.

For the record, dragons are whatever sex they want to be. According to the ASOIAF wiki, dragons change sex freely. A useful survival mechanism. I don't remember reading it so I assume it's mentioned in A World of Ice and Fire.

 

[danm999]

Martin has said Westeros is the size of South America IIRC.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

For sciene and the ravens:



Do we know how long they were on that little ice island?

My assumption after watching the episode was at least three days.