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[Gigglepoo]

She probably should be dead. But so should Jon, Tyrion, Dany and many others!

Excellent point! D&D set up two parallels last season between Tyrion and other characters that never paid off.

First, Tyrion, like Cercei, empowered a group of religious fanatics. Cercei is punished for this terrible decision by walking naked through the streets. She eventually has to blow up the sept to get away from the extremist. Tyrion doesn't face any repercussions for empowering R'hllor followers. In fact, Kinvara and her ilk were forgotten.

Second, Tyrion, like Jon Snow, turned against his advisors to make peace with a sworn enemy. Jon is punished for befriending the wildings by being murdered. But Tyrion doesn't face any repercussions for going against Grey Worm and Missandei's wishes and alligning with the slavers. Dany just swoops in, saves everyone from the slavers, and the tensions were forgotten.

So, yes, Tyrion should be dead. But the writers just ignored that actions have consequences.

 

[The Artisan]

Excellent point! D&D set up two parallels last season between Tyrion and other characters that never paid off.

First, Tyrion, like Cercei, empowered a group of religious fanatics. Cercei is punished for this terrible decision by walking naked through the streets. She eventually has to blow up the sept to get away from the extremist. Tyrion doesn't face any repercussions for empowering R'hllor followers. In fact, Kinvara and her ilk were forgotten.

Second, Tyrion, like Jon Snow, turned against his advisors to make peace with a sworn enemy. Jon is punished for befriending the wildings by being murdered. But Tyrion doesn't face any repercussions for going against Grey Worm and Missandei's wishes and alligning with the slavers. Dany just swoops in, saves everyone from the slavers, and the tensions were forgotten.

So, yes, Tyrion should be dead. But the writers just ignored that actions have consequences.

as a non-book reader, I was genuinely surprised that Dany was not angrier at Tyrion for the decisions he made. He also seemed to not want to take responsibility or blame once Greyworm was telling him to his face after they slave masters turned their backs and attacked.

Especially with the way Tyrion "rewarded" them with prostitutes? I don't think Dany would've approved of that at all but I hope it taught Tyrion a valuable lesson.

 

[The Artisan]

I think every link on a maester's chain represents a different subject, and maybe in the books they're each made out of a different metal. My memories fuzzy on it. But I think once you're 'certified' in all the disciplines of the standard chain, you're officially a maester, and then beyond that general education I'm sure there are plenty of maesters that have extreme specialization.

That's what's rough about it. Maesters have to know everything. There's no differentiation between physicians, dentists, optometrists, pediatricians, psychiatrists; maesters have to be all of them.

edit: sorry for double post

 

[Moff]

Tyrion is just not in interesting character anymore since he killed Tywin.
In the books he became insufferable and in the show Dinklage has just not been given anything interesting to work with. Everything he does could have done by Jorah, Varys or Barristan, he is basically only there because he was a popular character from seasons/books 1-4 and should have died a long time ago. I also don't see anything interesting he could contribute to the endgame or on the way there, both in the show and in the books, except for some lame payoff with his siblings no one any longer cares about.
I'm pretty sure GRRM/DD feel the same way and just let him live because he is a fan favourite.

 

[The Artisan]

Tyrion is just not in interesting character anymore since he killed Tywin.
In the books he became insufferable and in the show Dinklage has just not been given anything interesting to work with. Everything he does could have done by Jorah or Barristan, he is basically only there because he was a popular character from seasons/books 1-4 and should have died a long time ago. I also don't see anything interesting he could contribute to the endgame or on the way there, both in the show and in the books. I'm pretty sure GRRM/DD feel the same way and just let him live because he is a fan favourite.

he might serve as an ambassador when/if Jon does go to dragonstone for the glass. also if Davos goes with Jon there could be a subtle moment of hostility/confrontation since Tyrion technically

Spoiler

killed his son

 

[Gigglepoo]

I'm pretty sure GRRM/DD feel the same way and just let him live because he is a fan favourite.

Tyrion's value in the later books is giving us an incisive POV character where we need one. His travels with Jon and Aegon give us insight to this would-be king. His kidnapping by Jorah tells us about the political workings in Essos. His camp on the outskirts of Mareen tell us about the sellsword companies engaging in the Battle of Fire. Although his character has become a gloomy asshole since his murder spree, he's at least given us a valuable viewpoint as we learn about what's happening in Essos.

 

[Moff]

Tyrion's value in the later books is giving us an incisive POV character where we need one. His travels with Jon and Aegon give us insight to this would-be king. His kidnapping by Jorah tells us about the political workings in Essos. His camp on the outskirts of Mareen tell us about the sellsword companies engaging in the Battle of Fire. Although his character has become a gloomy asshole since his murder spree, he's at least given us a valuable viewpoint as we learn about what's happening in Essos.

while that is all true, it does not need to be Tyrion, we could get that POV from literally any other character. Hell, Jon Connington is already a pov character. Tyrion has no interesting connections to the plot or any character left to keep him alive or as a part of the story.

I mean, if he does meet up with Dany in TWOW I could even imagine this being one of the reasons why GRRM struggles so much with it. Dany is one of the most important POV characters in the saga, what the hell does he give Tyrion to think/do in his chapters?

 

[jfkgoblue]

I had forgotten about the Aegon storyline in the books, now I'm irritated again that they decided to skip it, show Dany has had zero real adversity.

 

[Gigglepoo]

I had forgotten about the Aegon storyline in the books, now I'm irritated again that they decided to skip it, show Dany has had zero real adversity.

Seeing how they've handled Euron, I'd much rather have another Targaryen than a Hot Topic pirate.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Wow, I'd completely shut out Arya's storyline from last season. Shudder.

I really liked this episode, overall, and it makes me feel good for the rest of the season, but gotta agree with the sentiments on Arya. We've been waiting so long for her to develop into what she will "be" but the journey was so dissatisfying that it feels just like we're just eating frosting, and no substance. The Frey scene was badass and she just *looks* damned cool--but it feels more like guilty pleasure. She has a serious God Mode ability right now but it doesn't feel earned, so seeing her revengathon this season may feel a little hollow.

 

[gspec]

while that is all true, it does not need to be Tyrion, we could get that POV from literally any other character. Hell, Jon Connington is already a pov character. Tyrion has no interesting connections to the plot or any character left to keep him alive or as a part of the story.

I mean, if he does meet up with Dany in TWOW I could even imagine this being one of the reasons why GRRM struggles so much with it. Dany is one of the most important POV characters in the saga, what the hell does he give Tyrion to think/do in his chapters?

tyrion gift is that he can influence and affect people hence the small man with a big shadow phrase. he influence ageon to go conquer the seven kingdoms to suave dany. Jon Connington was against it but didn't want to overrule ageon

 

[Faddy]

I remember! I was on board that hope (not hype!) train as well. But, nope. It wound up being just as stupid as it actually looked.



You're just listing off stuff she did. That doesn't mean any of it was earned or that it worked well.

Also- she never "worked with" the faces. She was expressly forbidden to work with them by Jaqen because she was such a fuckup. Her only experience with the faces was flat-out stealing one to kill Trant, and bringing the Waif's face back to the temple when she told Jaqen to go *f* himself, and that he and his God and his rules can get bent.

Has Arya earned the right to call herself a Faceless Man? No. Has she learned the ability to change faces? Yes.

What counts as Earned, do you have any stipulations on what that means or why it is important. Did Sansa earn her escape from Kings Landing? Did Dany earn her Unsullied army?

 

[Sony]

Arya got that Android 17 level power boost out of nowhere.

 

[The Artisan]

Arya got that Android 17 level power boost out of nowhere.

android 17 power level boost? are you talkin bout gt? i don't remember that in z

 

[Sony]

android 17 power level boost? are you talkin bout gt? i don't remember that in z

Spoiler

Oh boy, you'll love Dragonball Super.

Spoiler

you won't

 

[Aiii]

android 17 power level boost? are you talkin bout gt? i don't remember that in z

DB Super.

He was fighting poachers though, not outta nowhere.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Did Dany earn her Unsullied army?

Yup! That's still one of my favorite moments from the show.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Has Arya earned the right to call herself a Faceless Man? No. Has she learned the ability to change faces? Yes.

What counts as Earned, do you have any stipulations on what that means or why it is important. Did Sansa earn her escape from Kings Landing? Did Dany earn her Unsullied army?

Maybe using "earned" is the wrong word, but as we get further into the (television) series, the show has moved further away from "the world is random and cruel and your favorite character could die instantly" and more towards "your favorite characters are all going to meet epic climatic deaths/battles, there are forces in the world guiding them, etc.".

So, yeah, in that first sense, "earned" doesn't mean much. Perhaps "unsatisfying" is better. That's a word that can be applied to Arya's arc for years now.

It should feel much more satisfying to me, knowing that she/Starks can possibly get their revenge.

 

[Speevy]

I would love to ask Dan and Dave about the conscious decision not to have Cersei and Jaime mourn their children like normal people.

Imagine a scene in which Jaime cries over the deaths of all his kids. That would make for some good drama

 

[The Artisan]

Spoiler

Oh boy, you'll love Dragonball Super.

Spoiler

you won't

I hated Goku & His Friends Return, I hated Battle of Gods, so I'll probably hate Super lol

DB Super.

He was fighting poachers though, not outta nowhere.

I see. I always liked Android 17.

 

[SummitAve]

I've had a hard time with the Arya stuff as well. I thought she was just going to turn into a stealthy assassin. This face mask thing is a bit too literal for me, and it seems unfair since the powers have never actually been established in the show.

 

[Speevy]

I've had a hard time with the Arya stuff as well. I thought she was just going to turn into a stealthy assassin. This face mask thing is a bit too literal for me, and it seems unfair since the powers have never actually been established in the show.

I think the best thing is that she's out of Braavos. No one's beating her with a stick. And the nonsense motivations of the faceless men don't concern us any longer.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I would love to ask Dan and Dave about the conscious decision not to have Cersei and Jaime mourn their children like normal people.

Imagine a scene in which Jaime cries over the deaths of all his kids. That would make for some good drama

But Cersei never gets to be a cold, ruthless, angry war-mongerer. And Jaime never gets to inform her that everyone hates the Lannisters. Now's their chance!

And the nonsense motivations of the faceless men don't concern us any longer.

What was the motivation again?

I really should have rewatched last season.

 

[fantomena]

Good lord, you guys.

People being beheaded in front of their kids: meh

Pregnant woman stabbed to death: meh

Children burned alive: meh

Woman and baby eaten alive by starving dogs: meh

All manner of dicks, ass, tits, and vag: meh

Poop: WHAT THE FUCK THEY'VE GONE TOO FAR

lol

 

[Speevy]

I just wrote a cool ending for Arya in my head, a "bittter sweet" one.

The last of the Starks' enemies is dead.


Arya stands before the Stark family, her last bloody mission complete.

She removes the mask to reveal Jaqen.

'She would have wanted you to have this."

And hands needle back to Jon Snow.

 

[zeemumu]

I can only assume Jorah's limited role was because he was probably working on Resident Evil at the time

 

[Anoregon]

I would love to ask Dan and Dave about the conscious decision not to have Cersei and Jaime mourn their children like normal people.

Imagine a scene in which Jaime cries over the deaths of all his kids. That would make for some good drama

Cersei internalizes literally everything as a personal slight against her by an oppressor or rival, so even Tommen's suicide was because Margaery turned him against her. Her mourning was her final scene last season where she looks frumpy as she takes the throne.

Jaime has always been necessarily aloof from his children, so there's at least precedent.

 

[studyguy]

Tbf.... It was a lot of poop

 

[Widdle Puppy]

I'm going to be honest. I thought this episode was boring as hell. I was texting on my phone come the 40 minute mark. I have a feeling this season and the last won't be very good.

This show went down hill hard after season 4.

 

[Randdalf]

I can only assume Jorah's limited role was because he was probably working on Resident Evil at the time

They even forgot to take off his zombie makeup!

Spoiler

I have no idea what his role in Resident Evil is

 

[Fenderputty]

Humanizing the lannister soldiers?

More like Humanizing Arya IMO. Her thirst for vengeance seemed to hit a snag when the soldiers started talking about home and their families. She's not become a total psycho.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Jaime has always been necessarily aloof from his children, so there's at least precedent.

Last season (after Myrcella died), Jamie was all about family. That's all he cared about. When he was at Riverrun, he convinced Edmure to surrender by talking about family. So, yeah, he cares a lot about Tommen now and it's weird how his death was glossed over. As The Hound really more upset about strangers that he (essentially) killed than Jamie was about his own son?

More like Humanizing Arya IMO. Her thirst for vengeance seemed to hit a snag when the soldiers started talking about home and their families. She's not become a total psycho.

Did her thrist for vengence hit a snag? There was no hint she was going to kill those soldiers and I doubt she has given up her vengence quest now.

 

[Speevy]

I'm going to be honest. I thought this episode was boring as hell. I was texting on my phone come the 40 minute mark. I have a feeling this season and the last won't be very good.

I totally disagree. It had almost all the major players, it addressed some major concerns without glossing over anything, no one died in some bizarre "that would never happen" way, and it even had some heartfelt, human, tender moments (which GoT never does).

I loved the episode. It was light but very foreboding, which is what a premiere needs to be.

 

[Cornballer]

A few more interviews:
- TVLine: John Bradley on Sam's Citadel Struggles and Working With New Cast Member Jim Broadbent
- NY Mag: Iain Glen on Jorah’s Arm: ‘No Doubt About It, I’m in Trouble’
- Making Game of Thrones interview: Ed Sheeran Visits Westeros

Videos from HBO:
- Season 7 Episode 1: Inside the Episode
- Inside Game of Thrones: Euron's Proposal
- Inside Game of Thrones: Dany's Homecoming

 

[Zabka]

I would love to ask Dan and Dave about the conscious decision not to have Cersei and Jaime mourn their children like normal people.

Imagine a scene in which Jaime cries over the deaths of all his kids. That would make for some good drama

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eEvNBrBbjs

She also cries a bit during the scene with Joffrey in the sept. I won't link it here because the scene is stupid.

 

[Gigglepoo]

I totally disagree. It had almost all the major players, it addressed some major concerns without glossing over anything, no one died in some bizarre "that would never happen" way, and it even had some heartfelt, human, tender moments (which GoT never does).

I loved the episode. It was light but very foreboding, which is what a premiere needs to be.

Yup! Everything was as good as could be expected from the show... except for Euron, who was terrible (and a completely different character from "let's murder my nephew!" last season). But Dany walking solemnly through her ancestral home? Jon and Sansa bickering? Sam learning? The Hound mourning? All good!

 

[Widdle Puppy]

I totally disagree. It had almost all the major players, it addressed some major concerns with glossing over anything, no one died in some bizarre "that would never happen" way, and it even had some heartfelt, human, tender moments (which GoT never does).

I loved the episode. It was light but very foreboding, which is what a premiere needs to be.

I think where I'm at with show is that I don't like where they have taken it the last two seasons so really anything they do at this point won't satisfy me.

There were a few good scenes like the hound's and Arya's but when placed in greater context of the show and what has happened the last few season I find myself not really caring at all what is going on.

 

[gspec]

One of the reasons I like Netflix full season releases is that I can binge watch and not have to wait. Waiting for next episode is nerve wrecking.

 

[Brakke]

Did her thrist for vengence hit a snag? There was no hint she was going to kill those soldiers and I doubt she has given up her vengence quest now.

She initially refused the rabbit because she didn't want to establish guestright.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Euron is the worst guy on the show; from his character to his inability to hold onto his accent. Plus his ability to magic a fleet out of nothing was even more unbelievable that Arya being the worlds greatest assassin.

Plus it kinda irked me that they spent so much time on Sam yet the only payoff was something that he already new?

The Sandor scenes were fab though.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I thought the pace was great. Some really great moments in the episode. Jon forgiving the Karstarks/Umbers (that whole exchange was great, as both siblings had very valid points), everything with the Hound and the Brotherhood (what a good pairing), Dragonstone, the intro.

 

[Gigglepoo]

She initially refused the rabbit because she didn't want to establish guestright.

I guess I missed that. I thought she was eyeing their weapons so they wouldn't kill her but maybe you're right. Either way, I wouldn't eat a rabbit no matter how beardly the men who offered it were. That shit's gamey!

 

[mantidor]

I thought it was really contrived that the surviving heads of the Umbers and the Karstarks had to be a small boy and a girl, like we get it, Jon is *so* good hearted.

 

[dc89]

Liked the little book nod with Gravedigger Hound. Except the bedpans scene which was super overdone, I dug this ep. Nice breather.



Yeah he stayed with them with Arya. They shared a meal and then he robbed them.

It was in the previously on GoT segment, season 3(?) He robbed the father of his money leading him and his daughter to starve. It's why the Hound was reluctant, he feels guilty because he's responsible for their deaths

Wow thanks for helping me remember this!

 

[Brakke]

I thought it was really contrived that the surviving heads of the Umbers and the Karstarks had to be a small boy and a girl, like we get it, Jon is *so* good hearted.

How "contrived"? Those families fought and lost in the war in the south and then the battle at Winterfell. 'Course a bunch of their fighting-fit men in the succession are dead.

 

[gspec]

I thought it was really contrived that the surviving heads of the Umbers and the Karstarks had to be a small boy and a girl, like we get it, Jon is *so* good hearted.

The Father Umber died at the red wedding. The father Karstark was beheaded by Rob stark, Both elders sons for Umber and Karstark joined the Boltons and died at the battle of the bastards. It makes sense that who would be left is the younger siblings.

 

[ChillWinston]

As much as Euron has been a damp squib so far, I enjoyed his scene in the throne room. It gave me hope at least that this actor can do something interesting with the character, provided they give him some decent material. I hope his gift is the horn, it would make the inevitable fall of the Lannisters a bit more interesting if they had control of at least one dragon.

I love the Hound running with Brotherhood. I always thought Beric was such a cool character and was really disapointed when he disappeared for about 3 seasons. Him, the hound and Thoros are a great combination.

 

[effzee]

One thing I never understood is why all these warring families are so hell bent on the Westeros? There is this whole other world and people and they don't seem to be under the threat of an invasion of from White Walkers.

 

[badcrumble]

She initially refused the rabbit because she didn't want to establish guestright.

Yep. I think it's a useful scene for establishing that Arya isn't just a blood-crazed amoral serial killer at this point. Though she still kinda is.

 

[Speevy]

One thing I never understood is why all these warring families are so hell bent on the Westeros? There is this whole other world and people and they don't seem to be under the threat of an invasion of from White Walkers.

But there are brown people there.