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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
The Artisan
Member
Jon does! He's going home to his family which is now the only family Dany also has left
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
It was a decent finale. Maybe second worst though (to be fair they have always had great finales). Winterfell plot was stupid, what a dumb way for Littlefinger to die. Its so weird they are incorporating the Faegon plot now. Makes me kinda laugh because they cut that plot in the show because it didn't matter, but they ran out of material so they were like "fuck it, let's put it back in." Cersei is a fucking dumbass as usual though. Sam still doesn't know how dad's dead and he's the heir to his house. Tyrion being a creepier was weird and there little to suggest he loved her.
elrechazado
Banned
No stark uncle's marrying neices, sorry. The closest would be Arnold karstark, trying to illegally marry alys karstark, his grandniece, and people thought that was outrageous.
What a crazy season, in both good and bad ways. Brief thoughts on the episode:
+The Dragonpit meeting was surreal. So many characters finally converged. It's really what we've been waiting for. Though to be honest, this scene was not as memorable as the ones it later gave way to. Qyburn's interest piquing when he saw the wight was an underrated moment.
+Tyrion meeting Cersei was an intense scene. Cersei succinctly lays out the consequences of Tyrion's actions and how it didn't matter if he felt justified or not because innocent people suffered for it. Tyrion really doesn't have any good comeback either except for that he's trying to work towards the bigger picture. I though it ended a bit abruptly, but we all saw what it lead to.
+Theon finally get some love this season. He's been spinning his wheels for a while, which is sad for one of the most fascinating characters in the book and show. I suppose it's hard to show his struggles on screen since he is a very introspective character in the novels. The scene with him and Jon was easily one of the best this entire season.
+Jaime finally leaves Cersei.... about four seasons too late but it finally happened. Like many have echoed, the scene where snow starts falling on KL was amazing. This episode had an array of stunning shots and vistas.
+AEJON. DRAGON INCEST. It was creepy to have Jon's lineage spelled out when he was getting it on with his aunt, though I guess that was the purpose. Sam blurting out the annulment was a bit odd since it seemed like he wasn't even paying attention when Gilly said it.
+They've been killing it when it comes to spectacle, and the ice dragon taking down Eastwatch was quite the sight. I expect season eight to be pretty rapid fire considering we all know how fast dragons can travel.
+/- "It's time to answer for your crimes.... MISTER PRESIDENT." This was the most telegraphed scene, but it was largely effective. We all want to see Sansa be the undoing of LF and I thought the scene was overall well done, but I feel it lacks the impact it should have. LF has really just been an idiot since he gave Sansa to Ramsay three seasons ago. I also find it a bit cheap that Littlefinger was somewhat undone by super magic via Bran. Seems cheap.
Also this whole thing was spurred by Arya coming back to Winterfell. And what made her return? Finding out that Jon was King in the North via Hot Pie. That's right, HOT PIE BROUGHT DOWN LITTLEFINGER.
- How did the Unsullied get all the way to King's Landing? Weren't they stranded in Casterly Rock? Burning their fleet was more of a slight inconvenience that completely nullifying Dany's army. This season was truly the one without consequences where anyone can do anything at any time.
This season had a lot of excellent scenes and I'm excited to see where it goes, but it truly feels a lot has changed in how this story is told. They've gotta wrap this up in what, six episodes? That's a ton of questions to answer and storylines to resolve.
+The Dragonpit meeting was surreal. So many characters finally converged. It's really what we've been waiting for. Though to be honest, this scene was not as memorable as the ones it later gave way to. Qyburn's interest piquing when he saw the wight was an underrated moment.
+Tyrion meeting Cersei was an intense scene. Cersei succinctly lays out the consequences of Tyrion's actions and how it didn't matter if he felt justified or not because innocent people suffered for it. Tyrion really doesn't have any good comeback either except for that he's trying to work towards the bigger picture. I though it ended a bit abruptly, but we all saw what it lead to.
+Theon finally get some love this season. He's been spinning his wheels for a while, which is sad for one of the most fascinating characters in the book and show. I suppose it's hard to show his struggles on screen since he is a very introspective character in the novels. The scene with him and Jon was easily one of the best this entire season.
+Jaime finally leaves Cersei.... about four seasons too late but it finally happened. Like many have echoed, the scene where snow starts falling on KL was amazing. This episode had an array of stunning shots and vistas.
+AEJON. DRAGON INCEST. It was creepy to have Jon's lineage spelled out when he was getting it on with his aunt, though I guess that was the purpose. Sam blurting out the annulment was a bit odd since it seemed like he wasn't even paying attention when Gilly said it.
+They've been killing it when it comes to spectacle, and the ice dragon taking down Eastwatch was quite the sight. I expect season eight to be pretty rapid fire considering we all know how fast dragons can travel.
+/- "It's time to answer for your crimes.... MISTER PRESIDENT." This was the most telegraphed scene, but it was largely effective. We all want to see Sansa be the undoing of LF and I thought the scene was overall well done, but I feel it lacks the impact it should have. LF has really just been an idiot since he gave Sansa to Ramsay three seasons ago. I also find it a bit cheap that Littlefinger was somewhat undone by super magic via Bran. Seems cheap.
Also this whole thing was spurred by Arya coming back to Winterfell. And what made her return? Finding out that Jon was King in the North via Hot Pie. That's right, HOT PIE BROUGHT DOWN LITTLEFINGER.
- How did the Unsullied get all the way to King's Landing? Weren't they stranded in Casterly Rock? Burning their fleet was more of a slight inconvenience that completely nullifying Dany's army. This season was truly the one without consequences where anyone can do anything at any time.
This season had a lot of excellent scenes and I'm excited to see where it goes, but it truly feels a lot has changed in how this story is told. They've gotta wrap this up in what, six episodes? That's a ton of questions to answer and storylines to resolve.
To be fair, the books are going to feel just as rushed. There is so much that needs to happen over the next two books.
toddhunter
Member
Cersei is in the exact same spot. Dorne/Aegon is completely irrelevant filler.
It'll end up the same.
Very good finale in an ok season. A step up from 6 (other than 6's excellent end) and sets the scene for an amazing finish.
You mean Aegon?
He'll fly to Winterfell on his dragon and tell his sisters that he's now married the queen everyone loves and adores and everyone lives happily ever after.
Maybe not Tormund.
Or Deus Ex Brandon just tells them he loves her truely and everything is well.
Rad Shadow
Banned
What a shit way for littlefinger to die.
He was too good a character for the show and it showed.
Sister squabbles? The fuck was the point?
Ah well...at least Bronn is still around. Hope he ends up meeting jaime.
And speaking of jaime....finally!
Took him way too long to catch up to his book version.
He was too good a character for the show and it showed.
Sister squabbles? The fuck was the point?
Ah well...at least Bronn is still around. Hope he ends up meeting jaime.
And speaking of jaime....finally!
Took him way too long to catch up to his book version.
The Artisan
Member
What about Jonnel Stark?
Ugh I hate that Jon's birthname is Aegon. It should be Jaehaerys. Jon doesn't look like an Aegon and why the fuck would Rhaegar name both of his sons Aegon.
But as a side note, when Dany finds out I want her to call him Aegon from here on out, like how Vegeta calls Goku Kakarot
Three things I remember.
- I think I read that Jaime's reason for sticking with Cersei for so long (considering his whole arc so far) maybe had something to do with the fact that there were no other actors left in the Kingslanding part of the show.
While probably true, we just had next to 0 scene between Qyburn and Cersei this season, we also learned that apparently there were meetings between Euron and Cersei that Jaime wasn't aware of.
Seems like plenty of scenes that could have happen earlier not involving Jaime while making him leave earlier (like at the very beginning of season 7, or after the loot something battle) which would have make more sense. but oh well, for drama purpose much better to do it now, at least it happened before last season.
- Is he really going solo? Bronn is fucked if he stays now lol, Jaime could have at least tell him to come, who's he going to speak about cocks with now?
- In the flashback of Lyanna dying, Lyanna clearly said "His name is Aegon TARGARYEN"
Did Bran just thought "Well my aunt was dying, probably lost her mind, he's a fucking SAND" and not thought about checking if there was some secret wedding?
- I think I read that Jaime's reason for sticking with Cersei for so long (considering his whole arc so far) maybe had something to do with the fact that there were no other actors left in the Kingslanding part of the show.
While probably true, we just had next to 0 scene between Qyburn and Cersei this season, we also learned that apparently there were meetings between Euron and Cersei that Jaime wasn't aware of.
Seems like plenty of scenes that could have happen earlier not involving Jaime while making him leave earlier (like at the very beginning of season 7, or after the loot something battle) which would have make more sense. but oh well, for drama purpose much better to do it now, at least it happened before last season.
- Is he really going solo? Bronn is fucked if he stays now lol, Jaime could have at least tell him to come, who's he going to speak about cocks with now?
- In the flashback of Lyanna dying, Lyanna clearly said "His name is Aegon TARGARYEN"
Did Bran just thought "Well my aunt was dying, probably lost her mind, he's a fucking SAND" and not thought about checking if there was some secret wedding?
Admiral Woofington
Member
I'm really hoping Jon has a scene he's going to tell his family that he met a new girl, brings Dany through a door and then Bran and Sam look T each other as a record scratches like
"bro bro, we can't tell our boy Jonny caliente the truth"
"I am the three eyed raven, I see everything but lord Sammy clubs I didn't see that shit coming"
'neither did she"
"bro bro, we can't tell our boy Jonny caliente the truth"
"I am the three eyed raven, I see everything but lord Sammy clubs I didn't see that shit coming"
'neither did she"
Not even close. She's lost Jaime, she's a complete idiot in the books, and she doesn't have D&D plot armor. She's currently imprisoned by the Faith Militant and since this isn't the show, where killing the head of groups automatically disintegrates all the followers, even if she managed to blow up the sept that wouldn't suddenly cause the Faith Militant to disappear. She'll probably try to blow up King's Landing or something and get killed by Jaime.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Not to mention she's beyond disgraced at this moment, where Jaime actively knows she's manipulative and has been fucking people behind his back to gain favor with them and he didn't feel like dealing with that.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
It will not lol. Faegon will be ruling Kings Landing by the end of Winds of Winter (unless Cersei somehow blows it up). And you think this is a better Season Finale then 6?
toddhunter
Member
Or she does all the exact same things only Jaime isn't standing around doing absolutely nothing.
People have this fantasy that Stannis is going to come back, unite with the dorne and put penny on the throne. But face it, you just watched the books plot, the only question is how drippy the gravy will get in the novel form.
No s6 had the best finale, the rest of the season was hot garbage. This season was more even but not quite as good on the finish.
When a massive wall of ice like that starts to melt it would collapse and break away as it loses structural integrity - not melt like a snowman. The closest thing in nature would be the front of a glacier crumbling into the sea, which is what those visuals seemed to be based on. But in a more rapid, dramatic manner.
electroshockwave
Member
The inciting incident was Lyanna's "abduction". That's what caused Brandon to head to KL and call out Rhaegar and everything moved from that. Even though other events escalated it into a full blown war I think it's still a fair statement.
In one of Jaime's memories I think Rhaegar mentions making his cousin see some sense before he went to the Trident. I imagine in the battle Rhaegar desperately trying to tell Robert that he did not kidnap Lyanna, she chose him but Robert being too full of rage and killing him.
Yeah I'm pretty sure in the books people wouldn't be like "Oh you murdered your daughter-in-law and our spiritual leader in a crazy explosion and made your son the king commit suicide, please be our new queen." The show in general has papered over all sorts of insane kinslaying bullshit that would never work.
Here's just some of the plotlines that have to get wrapped up in six episodes:
+War against the Night King
+Jon finding out about his parentage and dealing with it, along with the reaction from other characters
+Cersei with Golden Company (and elephants) vs. Dany/Jon/Night's King
+Stark sisters in Winterfell
+Bran actually doing something worth a damn
+Theon vs. Euron
+Jaime being the Queenslayer
+Cleganebowl
+Mel has to come back and do something
+The fate of countless ancillary characters like Brienne, Tormund, Sam, Varys, Davos, Gendry, Jorah etc.
+The fate of Syrio
+War against the Night King
+Jon finding out about his parentage and dealing with it, along with the reaction from other characters
+Cersei with Golden Company (and elephants) vs. Dany/Jon/Night's King
+Stark sisters in Winterfell
+Bran actually doing something worth a damn
+Theon vs. Euron
+Jaime being the Queenslayer
+Cleganebowl
+Mel has to come back and do something
+The fate of countless ancillary characters like Brienne, Tormund, Sam, Varys, Davos, Gendry, Jorah etc.
+The fate of Syrio
Well they have at least six hours to do that. And presuming feature length episodes, probably more like nine.
That was time enough for the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy.
Well, Jon is half Stark, and was raised as a Stark so thier maybe internal conflict with his principles. Given he has carried himself with his family teaching and northern culture there might be something there for him.
But wow, Ned honour and memory still entranced in the minds of the most powerful, yes he died but he continues to be a force in the series, almost like Obi words to Darth about striking him down, his family are owning the fight, and more importantly, are highly respected.
Good on Jon for standing up for honesty, you are Ned's boy, through and through
Great payoffs into the finale, nice to see Tyrion get some quality screen time.
Lord of the Rings had much stronger source material to work with. That's pretty important- just look at how much worse The Hobbit trilogy from the same people was when they had to make up a bunch of crap instead.
Or, you know, look at how much worse this show became without book material.
Or, you know, look at how much worse this show became without book material.
toddhunter
Member
Cersei will be largely vs Sansa and Arya, with Arya being sent to do her assassin stuff with the hound helping. Gives them something to do.
I doubt we'll see the golden company even fight. They'll just be the threat that gets Arya and the Hound on the road again.
Compared to AFFC and ADWD the show has been amazing. That source material is basically the equivalent of working from the hobbit movies and trying to make things interesting.
hydrophilic attack
Member
So had it actually been established before that dragonglass could kill wights? I thought it had only been used to kill a white walker
They marched. The consequence is that they were taken off the board for half the season as they traveled. It's exactly the thing people complained doesn't happen anymore.
It's really amazing how fucking stupid Jon and Tyrion have become though. They are directly responsible for the destruction of the wall thanks to their idiotic capture-a-wight plan, and what did they even gain for their loss? A crippled Jaime Lannister? This is the worst trade in history, worse than the Babe Ruth trade.
demosthenes
Member
I think she knew how the conversation was going and advised the mountain to be threatening bit not killing.
electroshockwave
Member
I think Cersei could end up holding some power again in the books. Varys' plan seems to be to cause chaos so fAegon can swoop in and be welcomed by the people. Pycelle and Kevan Lannister have just been killed. Cersei will be missing the restraining influence and will be more paranoid and erratic than ever. It's a perfect setup for a new leader. Though Aegon might catch greyscale.
The show's path to power for Cersei really does make no sense though. In the space of a season she goes from walking naked through the streets and shit being thrown at her to queen with no claim or opposition. They completely undercut Jaime's character by not making that the point where he turned on her. She had just committed mass murder and indirectly caused the death of their son. How they went from that look at the end of season 6 to him simping for a blowjob is beyond me.
The show's path to power for Cersei really does make no sense though. In the space of a season she goes from walking naked through the streets and shit being thrown at her to queen with no claim or opposition. They completely undercut Jaime's character by not making that the point where he turned on her. She had just committed mass murder and indirectly caused the death of their son. How they went from that look at the end of season 6 to him simping for a blowjob is beyond me.
Erm, entirety of Westerns know what's coming now, no more evading the inevitable, who knows if the iron bank back Cersi instead of Jon given everything will be wiped out of the Dead are not stopped.
They also gain access to experts from all over on the basis of preparation for the great war. And Jaime still has not only the ear, but the love of the Queen, that's going to come in handy.
He's done well with what he had imo
Varys teach Them how to teleport
I know Jon does a lot of stupid stuff but Tyrion gets all the blame for the terrible plan.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Well that Winterfell storyline sure wrapped up. It in no way makes the last episode's scenes between Arya and Sansa make any sense, though. But if nothing else I'm glad they didn't force the Arya v Sansa confrontation.
No Cleganebowl was a bummer though.
No Cleganebowl was a bummer though.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
...sure Jan
I am not sure, maybe at Hardhome? I mean, it makes sense without being obvious about it. Dragonglass can kill them for good, but regular swords will enable them to be brought back if killed.
SpartanN92
Banned
BLUE FIRE CANT MELT ICE BEAMS!!!
Moff
Member
That scene confused me as well
Admiral Woofington
Member
If Dany and her dragons could have come that easily, they should have found a wight, remained hidden, and then send black hawk down for the dragon to grab it with his feet. They didn't need a whole one. Just one that wasn't killed.
I was just saying the amount of stuff they need to tie up isn't an issue. They have time. Also there is dumb stuff in the books too, they are hardly perfect works of literature, the show doesn't have the monopoly on bad. But given the lack of book source material I think the dash to the finish they're doing has been the right decision. If the show was to continue at GRRM pace there would be at least another 5 seasons, and I don't know if I could handle that. The current pacing is correct.
I don't know why they dragged it out since they had all the information at that point.
Actually I do know, they dragged it out as the characters needed to be given something to do.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
There was plenty of material they could have adapted from that is much better than what we got. And they are very good works of fiction. I'm not really sure why you are writing them off. They could have had all of Season 6, be material from late ADWD and early to mid Winds. Season 7 could have been second half of Winds/early ADOS, and Season 8 could have been the rest of ADOS. D&D however just want the show to be over with. And they will make terrible plots if they can get there faster. And accelerate the pacing or slow it down as much as they want.
I mean the whole Sansa finding out about the bag of masks wasn't a part of them working together so that was real tension. I really wasn't sure where they were going with them tbh.
Well having watched the previous episode before this one, the scene with Sanaa, Arya, and the faces definitely had some subtext to it. The way Arya hands Sansa the dagger at the end, and Sansa's expression. I did wonder what that was all about. In a sense it was cheap misdirection as they simply didn't show you the scenes which put that exchange in context - but it was definitely filmed to make you think things weren't quite as they seemed.
At the same time it's disturbing that they barely mention Catelyn at all.
This little chat between Sansa and Arya I was expecting some mention of Cat, but nope it's about Ned Ned Ned, even between girls lol
Psychoward
Banned
...but they didn't have food, how could they have afforded to march all the way down to KL?
Also did they just give up on ever showing Dorne again? Who is ruling there now and what the hell is the Dornish army doing? Does anyone care?
Also how are the Dothraki and Unsullied even going to help against the WW if they don't have dragonglass?
Also are both Tyrion and Varys really stupid enough to believe Cersei at face value? Did neither of them think to leave a single scout/spy in KL?
Human Trashcan
Banned
I mean yeah it was clear something was off but from the characters' perspectives it still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It's not like LF was there and they were putting on a show for his benefit. It would've made more sense if we'd seen him or someone spying on them in that moment or something. It was, as you say, cheap misdirection.
Atraveller
Banned
Regarding Winterfell sisters storyline: was it shit if it was only pretending to be shit?