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[danwarb]

It really does destroy anything we've seen in a game up to now, although I'm not a fan of the art style in this demo.

Want to see something else in UE4.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Considering that he's on FIRE, I don't think he can get any hotter


We know UE4 is capable of SSSS. Once Epic updates that model and adds skin that looks like this:

http://www.iryoku.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Screen-Space-Subsurface-Scattering.jpg[IMG]


Then we'll see ;-)[/QUOTE]

And then the camera pans out, and the game looks like a higher res, higher precision Uncharted.

 

[Stallion Free]

I am not saying I believe that UE3 can not do an a-typical aesthetic, only that I don't see any examples of it with UE3 games, or the demonstrations that Epic put out there.

Really now?

 

[LittleJohnny]

And then the camera pans out, and the game looks like a higher res, higher precision Uncharted.

Considering that Uncharted is a higher res, higher presicion Tomb Raider of the previous generation, I don't see that as a bad thing ;-)

 

[funkystudent]

lol at there statment.

Epic dont give a crap about what the gamer wants.

They just want a return on there R&D investment after spending nearly 7 years of making shiny new tech with no target box.



But I wouldn't be worried if the next consoles are underpowered.

IMO the console thats a 100 million + selling with a 5 year + life span using the same hardware is dead.


Console makers have to upgrade there consoles faster to keep up with the times.

Target 30-50 million sold then upgrade the guts. Guarantee Backwards and some form of forwards compatibility. Be profitable day 1.

THATS the future.


Edit... I think I got my UE4 threads mixed up. meh.

 

[Strife91]

I'm very optimistic. I think once we see this in motion we'll all be a lot more impressed than we could have expected to be.

I also think that this particular type of progress will be a lot easier for developers to handle- and we'll see a lot of games that developers were able to spend more time on polishing than trying to make it work. In hindsight, I think this might even be a cyclical thing.

Fifth Generation (PS1, N64)- 3D games, a whole new ballpark. Some games need to change completely. Lots of learning.

Sixth Generation (PS2, Xbox, GC)- Much better 3D games, looks like fifth gen CG or better. Very creative generation, great games.

Seventh Generation (PS3, 360)- HD games, a whole new ballpark. Some games need to change completely. Lots of learning.

Eighth Generation (PS4, Xbox)- Much better HD games, looks like seventh gen CG or better. Very creative generation, great games.


Is there possibly something to this?



It lends a slightly different perspective to this:

I see the pattern. In other words next gen will be awesome!

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Considering that Uncharted is a higher res, higher presicion Tomb Raider of the previous generation, I don't see that as a bad thing ;-)

But is that going to be enough for you guys? Or will they have to spend hundreds of millions to make it look "next-gen"?

I'm fine with Uncharted with better shadows, AA, and better texture filtering. That game already has the pixel power of every game released before... combined.

Yes, now I'm being silly. But if Uncharted isn't good enough? What is? How long until the first billion dollar game releases?

 

[sp3000]

There is nothing in that demo that I haven't seen before. Crysis 2 already did Point Shadow Lights, Bokeh DOF, Tessellation, and all the other gimmicks.

It looks impressive, but not really a leap from Samaritan. Epic also chose the worst possible scene to show off stuff.

 

[TouchMyBox]

Creating a game that operates on a level of fidelity comparable to human vision, Sweeney says, will require hardware at least 2,000 times as powerful as today’s highest-end graphics processors. That kind of super-hi-def experience may be only two or three console generations away

Wat...

As for UE 4, it looks awesome but definitely doesn't put Samaritan to shame. I guess E3 will tell the whole story

Moore's law states that the transistors that can be put on a silicon chip doubles every 18 months.

Console cycles are getting longer, so three console generations can be 20-25 years away potentially. If we assume PS7 is 20 years away, then it's GPU could potentially have 8,192x the transistors that the card rendering this UE4 demo has.

Of course everybody is saying that Moore's law for sure is going to come to an end pretty soon, but somebody has always been saying that.

 

[sp3000]

Does anyone have pics of when UE3 was demoed? Back in the beginning of this gen? I'd like to see just how much the developers have pushed it.

From a UE3 speedtree demo

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Moore's law states that the transistors that can be put on a silicon chip doubles every 18 months.

Console cycles are getting longer, so three console generations can be 20-25 years away potentially. If we assume PS7 is 20 years away, then it's GPU could potentially have 8,192x the transistors that the card rendering this UE4 demo has.

Of course everybody is saying that Moore's law for sure is going to come to an end pretty soon, but somebody has always been saying that.

Well we are coming up to the modern limit for die shrinks.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

From a UE3 speedtree demo

hmm. I don't remember any game that even approaches this. Am I mistaken?

 

[TouchMyBox]

Well we are coming up to the modern limit for die shrinks.

The current roadmap for silicon, yes.

I hope we will have moved on within the next 20 years though.

 

[sp3000]

hmm. I don't remember any game that even approaches this. Am I mistaken?

They call them tech demos for a reason. It's the same way the Crysis tech demo looks better than the actual game before its modded.

 

[Nirolak]

Does anyone have pics of when UE3 was demoed? Back in the beginning of this gen? I'd like to see just how much the developers have pushed it.

E3 2004:

 

[UrbanRats]

^ Well, Batman Arkham City looks far better than that, so color me excited either way.

Doesn't look all that impressive to be honest. I was more wowed with Samaritan and this doesn't "make that look like a joke".

I'm of this opinion, not that his looks bad or anything.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

They call them tech demos for a reason. It's the same way the Crysis tech demo looks better than the actual game before its modded. I expect the UE4 tech demo will be the same, looking better than most games released with it.

Well yes, I understand that, but that goes back to my point with any tech demo of UE4, games released that use it won't actually meet the tech demo itself. If the pics that we are seeing are from the tech demo and don't look THAT great, then really, just how much of an improvement should we expect from next gen as compared to this gen.

Edit: And yes, put me in the group that was more impressed with Samaritan though I may take that back after seeing UE4 in motion.

 

[Vanillalite]

Considering the particle effects are what "pops" in these pics I think they'd look realllllly awesome in motion similar to that off screen Wii-U Zelda gif I posted of the Navi particle effects.

Stuff like that really impresses me, but like I said before. I might just be inclined to liking that sort of thing.

 

[sp3000]

Considering the particle effects are what "pops" in these pics I think they'd look realllllly awesome in motion similar to that off screen Wii-U Zelda gif I posted of the Navi particle effects.

Stuff like that really impresses me, but like I said before. I might just be inclined to liking that sort of thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93YKsiL9MDo&feature=relmfu

I heard you like particles so we put particles in your particles

 

[Cmd. Pishad'aç]

I don't think this dwarves completely what we have seen on current consoles. The Last of Us ambush trailer looks impressive, and I bet the engine isn't as fancy as UE4.

Diminishing returns are a bitch.

For me, I'll call it next gen when I see Avatar graphics in real time right before my very eyes...

 

[XOMTOR]

yeah, I don't get what made him excited. Mark Rein and his team are good at selling and hyping, that is all.

They weren't able to get much military and big corp deals like Crytek did. At least I haven't heard about them.

I wish Crytek were better at hyping/marketing CryEngine; I'd love to see it in more widespread use. From an end user (PC gamer) perspective, CE games are much more mod friendly and tweakable compared to UE engine titles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93YKsiL9MDo&feature=relmfu

I heard you like particles so we put particles in your particles

Never get tired of seeing that. Gotta finally try installing that mod this weekend.

 

[Stallion Free]

I wish Crytek were better at hyping/marketing CryEngine; I'd love to see it in more widespread use. From an end user (PC gamer) perspective, CE games are much more mod friendly and tweakable compared to UE engine titles.

Epic has faustered a mod community for years with their engines. Crytek can't pull that off over night.

 

[blazinglazers]

There is nothing in that demo that I haven't seen before. Crysis 2 already did Point Shadow Lights, Bokeh DOF, Tessellation, and all the other gimmicks.

It looks impressive, but not really a leap from Samaritan. Epic also chose the worst possible scene to show off stuff.

Well we haven't seen the demo yet, and if it is indeed sporting dynamic fluid-like particle simulation with all the bells & whistles, then it will be showing something you haven't seen before. That Crysis mod isn't remotely in the same ball park.

And in that context, a demo revolving around snow, fire, ash and lava would be the best possible scene to show it off

 

[USIGSJ]

Well we haven't seen the demo yet, and if it is indeed sporting dynamic fluid-like particle simulation with all the bells & whistles, then it will be showing something you haven't seen before. That Crysis mod isn't remotely in the same ball park.

And in that context, a demo revolving around snow, fire, ash and lava would be the best possible scene to show it off

Well, if you want to see those particles that bad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq3mYmzOelI&hd=1

 

[blazinglazers]

Well, if you want to see those particles that bad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq3mYmzOelI&hd=1

Thanks, that's awesome.

 

[LittleJohnny]

Moore's law states that the transistors that can be put on a silicon chip doubles every 18 months.

Console cycles are getting longer, so three console generations can be 20-25 years away potentially. If we assume PS7 is 20 years away, then it's GPU could potentially have 8,192x the transistors that the card rendering this UE4 demo has.

Of course everybody is saying that Moore's law for sure is going to come to an end pretty soon, but somebody has always been saying that.

It might end soon after this technology alows processors to have multiple layers stacked. It's possible to have up to 100 layers, shattering Moore's Law into 1000 pieces.

This technology is still on track to go live before the end of 2013.

http://mashable.com/2011/09/09/breakthrough-the-secret-to-making-processors-1000-times-faster-video/

 

[Thunder Monkey]

It might end soon after this technology alows processors to have multiple layers stacked. It's possible to have up to 100 layers, shattering Moore's Law into 1000 pieces.

http://8.mshcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/new-glue-could.jpg[/MG]

This technology is still on track to go live before the end of 2013.

[url]http://mashable.com/2011/09/09/breakthrough-the-secret-to-making-processors-1000-times-faster-video/[/url][/QUOTE]

*cough*

That's not exactly shattering Moore's Law, but circumventing the modern issues presented. Transistors can only shrink so much. So we found a way around that issue.

 

[DerZuhälter]

Sooo... when is Silicon Knights buying this bad boy?

Spoiler

Not impressed. Waiting for video.

 

[USIGSJ]

Looks like wired added several more pics, don't remember these being posted when the article came out:

 

[phosphor112]

*cough*

That's not exactly shattering Moore's Law, but circumventing the modern issues presented. Transistors can only shrink so much. So we found a way around that issue.

Was just going to say this. I wonder how much longer x86 will last because of this.

 

[UrbanRats]

Looks like wired added several more pics, don't remember these being posted when the article came out:

Those look underwhelming to me.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

Looks like wired added several more pics, don't remember these being posted when the article came out:

Once again, would it kill someone to actually release some 1080p shots? And one of those is so badly compressed it might as well be UE2.

 

[DerZuhälter]

Biggest waste of polygons ever. Culling?

 

[USIGSJ]

Biggest waste of polygons ever. Culling?

That's just editor wireframe mode pic, of course you want to see all the geometry when working with your scene there.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Well actually the article discusses a lot of ways in which this tech will dramatically reduce the price of games.



Realistic lighting means that they'll be able to put down lights once, and no matter how much they deform the environment, they won't have to change anything. That'll result in an insane amount of savings.

Yeah Cliffy is talking about dynamic lighting in place of prebaked lighting. Basically from UE3 to CE3.

Which also means that it's confirmed that UE4 is a deferred renderer. So this means we'll see "fuller" scenes for lack of a better word. Lighting won't look as flat as it use to.

 

[Ezduo]

Looks like wired added several more pics, don't remember these being posted when the article came out:

Whoa, the first few pics looked fine to me but these are atrocious. Especially the first two.

 

[GDGF]

Looks like wired added several more pics, don't remember these being posted when the article came out:

Not sure those helped the case.

 

[Instro]

Seems like this demo was mostly showing off lighting stuff, strange that they would release such images.

 

[sp3000]

Those pics look even worse. Just spamming tessellation like Crysis 2

Yeah Cliffy is talking about dynamic lighting in place of prebaked lighting. Basically from UE3 to CE3.

Which also means that it's confirmed that UE4 is a deferred renderer. So this means we'll see "fuller" scenes for lack of a better word. Lighting won't look as flat as it use to.

A lot of people don't understand that UE3 is pretty technologically behind newer engines at this point. Both CE3 and Frostbite blow it away.

 

[LittleJohnny]

*cough*

That's not exactly shattering Moore's Law, but circumventing the modern issues presented. Transistors can only shrink so much. So we found a way around that issue.

Technically you have a point, but in the context of what he said I'm also right. He said according Moore's Law transistors that can be put on a chip double every 18 months... well transistors on a single die could quadruple or even have 100x more with this technology. The point being, he would like to have more transistors on a chip but doubts that Moore's law could be beat, so how is this technology not making that possible?

In fact ExtremeTech said the same thing here:

"The end result, according to IBM, would be processors that are 1,000 times more powerful than those currently on the market — and a resounding shattering of Moore’s law."

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/95319-ibm-and-3m-to-stack-100-silicon-chips-together-using-glue

 

[Barack Lesnar]

I don't think these are good quality pictures. Also think we have to see a video of it to really see how it looks.

 

[iamshadowlark]

You all should actually look at the Wired captions for the pictures. Not all are meant to blow you away. Rather show specific engine features.

 

[DerZuhälter]

That's just editor wireframe mode pic, of course you want to see all the geometry when working with your scene there.

Do you really? The scene in the wireframe isn't visible in the normal screen. Which devalues the wireframe screen because I can't make out the actual wireframe of the scene because of the amount of polygons spammed infront of my face. What should be an informative screenshot is now a deceptive mesh of crap.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Technically you have a point, but in the context of what he said I'm also right. According Moore's Law transistors that can be put on a chip doubles every 18 months... well transistors on a single die could quadruple or even have 100x more with this technology. Who cares about technicalities

In fact ExtremeTech said the same thing here:

"The end result, according to IBM, would be processors that are 1,000 times more powerful than those currently on the market — and a resounding shattering of Moore’s law."

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/95319-ibm-and-3m-to-stack-100-silicon-chips-together-using-glue

That's just hyperbole on their part.

 

[USIGSJ]

Quite sure those screens are there when they showed in free cam mode how GI and reflections work. Red color bleeding can be seen in that first pic, also reflections in later pics, like in the last one where those stripes can be seen being reflected in those metal columns.
Speculating about this one, but that hammer one might be showing support for GI from emissive surfaces.

 

[alexandros]

UE4 demon doesn't look so hot now, does it?

That's exactly what I was talking about. When you have a true generational leap, the evidence is there for all to see. UE4 falls short.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

That's exactly what I was talking about. When you have a true generational leap, the evidence is there for all to see. UE4 falls short.

The issue is, you need more and more power to create small leaps.

You're not going to see a massive jump in still images next-gen at all. The changes will come in motion, and that can act against them very easily.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Quite sure those screens are there when they showed in free cam mode how GI and reflections work. Red color bleeding can be seen in that first pic, also reflections in later pics, like in the last one where those stripes can be seen being reflected in those metal columns.
Speculating about this one, but that hammer one might be showing off GI from emissive surfaces.

I see you read the Wired captions.

That's exactly what I was talking about. When you have a true generational leap, the evidence is there for all to see. UE4 falls short.

I haven't seen anything to suggest that UE4 isn't as big a jump. That new model is way more complex.

 

[Instro]

You all should actually look at the Wired captions for the pictures. Not all are meant to blow you away. Rather show specific engine features.

It seems like this is mostly a feature set demo. It was probably not a good idea to release these kind of images, since they do not have the production values of something like Samaritan.

 

[USIGSJ]

I see you read the Wired captions.

Actually missed them till you posted that there are ones. Fail by me, lol.