geordiemp
Member
Its got voxel tracing there are no rays and what you see is whats in RAM, the whole scene is not rendered its culled to only what you see, therefore no ray tracing.
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Unreal Engine 5 revealed! Real-Time Prototype Gameplay Demo Running On PS5
- Thread starter JareBear: Remastered
- Start date
Its got voxel tracing there are no rays and what you see is whats in RAM, the whole scene is not rendered its culled to only what you see, therefore no ray tracing.
Vick
Gold Member
Doesn’t work like that, by those terms all your eyes are perceiving is a flat rectangular surface.
Well, devs and artists all over the word are still implementing these things despite years of huge backlashes, that should tell you it’s not just me.
Time to change monitor i guess.
B-universe
Banned
Cleared_Hot
Member
Agreed. Once you see it, it's hard to unsee
Drunkensamurai
Member
This thread is awesome.
II_JumPeR_I
Member
Dont bother... kinda sucks that a LOT here cant see past all the marketing nonsense... its just so cringe seeing the Epic devs hyping this up but as soon as someone asks about other platforms or PC they dance around it... its just pathethic in this day and age.
And i dont get this childish "meltdown" or "triggered" arguments... why should someone have a meltdown about a TECH DEMO from a MULTIPLATFORM Engine that will run better on better hardware than the PS5?
What kind of flawed logic is that?
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Nickolaidas
Member
Guys, not sure if it was stated in the thread, but the part where the character walks slowly in a narrow passage was confirmed to NOT being a loading screen.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
In a way, the cancelling of all the trade shows due to COVID19 seems to be exacerbating the console wars by hindering the availability of data for comparisons.
If we had seen this demo live and playable at GDC like it was supposed to be, we could have compared its performance there, running on PCs (I doubt they would use live PS5s this early in the year) to the PS5 video footage (assuming that would have been released too eventually).
That way, a lot of this shouting about what is and isn't possible on my favorite machine can actually be susbstantiated with relevant data.
If we had seen this demo live and playable at GDC like it was supposed to be, we could have compared its performance there, running on PCs (I doubt they would use live PS5s this early in the year) to the PS5 video footage (assuming that would have been released too eventually).
That way, a lot of this shouting about what is and isn't possible on my favorite machine can actually be susbstantiated with relevant data.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Thanks for adding this, will give it a look now.
NXGamer
does great workI can't add anymore media to the OP, unfortunately
Vick
Gold Member
You really missed months of people laughing like maniacs at everyone even attempting to report why a SSD focused architecture could mean more than slightly faster loading times, calling Cerny and tech oriented people who really know their shit (unlike ours vetted industry professionals) like Coreteks and even developers liars and paid shills? Amazing!
Kumomeme
Member
thanks for the information...i laugh at that part though hahhaa
jackets with pockets
Banned
Not what I implied. Anyways, the good thing about being a PC gamer is that I can disable all of that crap either from the menu, by editing configuration file or by installing a modification.
I wasn't referring to my monitor but to the post-processing effects.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
JESUS you are such a toxic little fanboy
Hate to break it to you, but I'm exciting for both consoles. I'm a genuine fan of gaming, which means I appreciate multiple systems for what they are, brand name and hoo-rah cheerleading doesn't mean shit to me.You act like a clown, you get treated like a clown. Deal with it.
Well unlike certain other people on the forum, I don't take a pessimistic outlook on a given platform's potential performance in a given area just to keep a popular (but extremely complicated) narrative floating around on ground as stable as bubble wrap.
This is kind of what I mentioned a while ago when it comes to double-standards: when it comes to any features not confirmed or explicitly detailed regards PS5, we're expected to take the best-assumptions approach and postulate that the feature is there and the capability is there. However, when it comes to XSX, the worst-case assumptions are usually meant to be taken. That is to say, we're supposed to assume lack of info or confirmation is a sign of weakness or it not being there.
I thought about this, and honestly, I don't think it'd be a good idea for MS to show off the same demo. There's a multitude of reasons for this but the main ones break down to:
1: It won't be as impressive the 2nd time around (since it would be the exact same thing as the first demonstration)
2: It opens up the door for bad-faith nitpicking and double-standard comparisons
3: It'd be a case of them getting "sloppy seconds"
4: The demo is already associated with Sony and PS5 in terms of brand, and very strongly so. It would be a case of MS being stuck under Sony's shadow and following a narrative set by Sony instead of leading a narrative set on their own terms, something earlier reveals and info drops for XSX were very good at.
Even came up with a term for it, the "SEGA Saturn Effect"
. Remember when the Saturn tried showing it could do good 3D by getting shittier ports of PS1 games that were almost always unoptimized for the Saturn hardware, thus hurting Saturn's perception as a next-gen system among gamers and the press? Even though SEGA's own 1st-party efforts were technically as solid (in some cases better) than the most impressive PS1 games at the time?Honestly think there would be parallels with MS demo'ing the exact same UE5 demo again; they need to do a different demo (preferably for a game that'll be at the July showcase), designed to show off some of XSX's strengths....
...oh, and actual gameplay not mixed in with slick CG cutscenes this time
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geordiemp
Member
JESUS you are such a toxic little fanboy
You act like a clown, you get treated like a clown. Deal with it.
Ad hominem from the little low IQ fanboy...do you know what ad hominem means ?
Whats it like being stupid ?
How big is a last gen game ? Available RAM is 5 GB.
Should load in under a second....
Show me an example we are waiting (or attack me if you cant, either way its funny)
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Andodalf
Banned
Best move would be to show it on lockhart. That' would quite everybody, and there's no worries about comparisons because that's the low end model anyway
jackets with pockets
Banned
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
As to the bold'd, I can only speak for myself, but I get by okay with it. *shrugs*
FranXico
Member
There was no CG in that demo.oh, and actual gameplay not mixed in with slick CG cutscenes this time
Edit: understood now, nevermind.
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Vick
Gold Member
Exactly, having options and not make them disappear altogheter. Win for everyone and freedom for artists.
I know, what i meant with that snarky comment is that usually when effects or things like “30fps are literally unplayable” bother people so much it’s because they’re not displayed properly. Like the insane amount of input lag most TV modes or cheap TV’s/Monitor have or how legit awful motion blur can look when mixed with less than optimal ways of handling motion like LCD’s and maybe even interpolation techniques and amenities like that. Calibration always helps alot in every way but unfortunately some things are intrinsic in the technology.
I don’t think anyone in their right mind would possibly disable lens flares in Horizon for instance given how absolutely breathtaking they are in HDR, or remove CA and post processing in P.T. which are the reason the game look photorealistic. Viewed on a proper calibrated panel these titles look perfect as they are and i can’t imagine anyone wanting to disable things from them.
Only CA, no matter how little, can trick my brain into thinking i’m looking at something real and this goes for both games and VFX, which always use it anyway.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Ehh.
I always disable CA when the option is there, sometimes I have to go into .ini's and do it manually (like with Outer Worlds). Or download a mod from Nexus that disables it.
Always will.
Personal preference. I hate it.
I always disable CA when the option is there, sometimes I have to go into .ini's and do it manually (like with Outer Worlds). Or download a mod from Nexus that disables it.
Always will.
Personal preference. I hate it.
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geordiemp
Member
I know my place. visiting large fabs you meet many more clever people, and I dont get up the food chain enough to see stuff like TSMC 300 mm,. The people that design this stuff are just nuts.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Hmm..I can kind of see what you mean. Still think the "wow" effect would be lessened, even moreso since it's Lockhart (so we know for a fact the demo wouldn't look as good).
But if it could do the texture streaming very well, comparable what we saw on PS5 but just at lower resolution (obviously), that would at least shut up some folks stuck on the narrative MS's SSD I/O is somehow "anemic" and will be some massive bottleneck (which would not benefit PS5 multiplatform development either).
Yep, you're worthless. Guess you can join that ignore list with the other idiots; I come here to talk positively about next-gen platforms and do so fairly, not be insulted by a tri-hard with an edgelord complex and minuscule brain power and a fetish so strong for a piece of plastic he'd probably hump it in heat if he could.
You want to be toxic? Well there's a taste of it for you. Now I can talk with respectable members and not bother with your trash any longer.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
This COVID stuff's messed so many things up. I keep thinking about things returning to normalcy but now I question if it will even happen. If it does, will it be any longer than scant bursts as a time before a "next wave" of this stuff?
Well, I don't want to talk about COVID shenanigans here, the scope of that is much larger than just gaming of course.
geordiemp
Member
Yup insults from the child. Thats what I expected,
You probably have no qualifications and could not spell semiconductor if you tried and just repeat MS marketing and any long word you find ad nauseum, its plainly obvious.
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Gamingbolt - PS5 UE5 Demo Analysis
5 Things it did Graphically that PS4 simple couldn't do
1. Insanely high polygon counts thanks to Nanite
2. Goodbye texture pop-in: Nanite and the end of low quality distant LODs
3. Real-time global illumination with Lumen
4. 8K textures and beyond: the benefits of near-unlimited memory
5. Micro-phyiscs-a new frontier for interactiveness?
5 Things it did Graphically that PS4 simple couldn't do
1. Insanely high polygon counts thanks to Nanite
2. Goodbye texture pop-in: Nanite and the end of low quality distant LODs
3. Real-time global illumination with Lumen
4. 8K textures and beyond: the benefits of near-unlimited memory
5. Micro-phyiscs-a new frontier for interactiveness?
-Arcadia-
Banned
I don’t know the context, and I really don’t care to, lol, but try to remember that we’re talking about fun and games, and get along with your fellow gamer, if possible?
If PS5 carries an advantage with this new rendering style, due to its SSD, I will switch my first planned console buy of the generation. I go where the capability is, period.
That said, people who were cheerleading 13-15 teraflops and attacking everyone who said otherwise, including Digital Foundry and their staff members right here, in the face of clear evidence, whilst whipping around almost instantly after the teraflop reveal to astroturf for SSD/PS5 superiority with dozens of threads a day, without any supporting evidence, deserved to be laughed at. Sheer fanboyism.
The supporting evidence may be here now, but that doesn’t retroactively absolve declaring superiority with no actual knowledge.
I don’t know, but additionally, if any Xbox fans also attacked people attempting to explain why a faster SSD could carry benefits, in a grounded, professional, non-ridiculously- attached manner, then that was wrong too.
If PS5 carries an advantage with this new rendering style, due to its SSD, I will switch my first planned console buy of the generation. I go where the capability is, period.
That said, people who were cheerleading 13-15 teraflops and attacking everyone who said otherwise, including Digital Foundry and their staff members right here, in the face of clear evidence, whilst whipping around almost instantly after the teraflop reveal to astroturf for SSD/PS5 superiority with dozens of threads a day, without any supporting evidence, deserved to be laughed at. Sheer fanboyism.
The supporting evidence may be here now, but that doesn’t retroactively absolve declaring superiority with no actual knowledge.
I don’t know, but additionally, if any Xbox fans also attacked people attempting to explain why a faster SSD could carry benefits, in a grounded, professional, non-ridiculously- attached manner, then that was wrong too.
jackets with pockets
Banned
oldergamer
Member
Here's are a few facts:
1. Nobody here knows the sustained transfer rate of this demo between the CPU and the SSD.
2. Nobody here should be claiming that this could only be done on PS5 without knowing the full details ( epic already stated you would need an SSD or NVME drive to reach the performance needed on PC.)
3. If Epic had a sustained transfer rate of 2GB per second with the NVME drive, that is 30 times what xbox and ps4 are capable of. Don't think they were hitting 5GB per second unless they state it.
4. Micro-polygons are great for static geometry. It doesn't apply to character models that animate.
5. Resolution is a bottleneck (similar to Ray tracing)
6. Global illumination is a more advanced form of Raytracing (so if the hardware is capable of better ray tracing performance, it will benefit).
7. This wasn't a game demo, it was an interactive tech demo that was started 2 years ago. It also started on PC. There will be very few games that can afford movie quality graphical data.
8. Don't expect to see anyone in sony first party using unreal outside of the Days Gone Developer. Unless things have changed, we're mostly going to see custom engines from first party on PS5.
1. Nobody here knows the sustained transfer rate of this demo between the CPU and the SSD.
2. Nobody here should be claiming that this could only be done on PS5 without knowing the full details ( epic already stated you would need an SSD or NVME drive to reach the performance needed on PC.)
3. If Epic had a sustained transfer rate of 2GB per second with the NVME drive, that is 30 times what xbox and ps4 are capable of. Don't think they were hitting 5GB per second unless they state it.
4. Micro-polygons are great for static geometry. It doesn't apply to character models that animate.
5. Resolution is a bottleneck (similar to Ray tracing)
6. Global illumination is a more advanced form of Raytracing (so if the hardware is capable of better ray tracing performance, it will benefit).
7. This wasn't a game demo, it was an interactive tech demo that was started 2 years ago. It also started on PC. There will be very few games that can afford movie quality graphical data.
8. Don't expect to see anyone in sony first party using unreal outside of the Days Gone Developer. Unless things have changed, we're mostly going to see custom engines from first party on PS5.
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geordiemp
Member
Wow anyone who thought otherwise is on a different page..
Nobody is that daft, they were probably just trolling.
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Keihart
Member
Regarding this, i would expect something similar if not even more aggressive in this form of rendering considering where PS5's strengths are and how is ND rendering their games since PS3(heavy streaming even in linear games) and the work done in Dreams (voxel and all that no texture stuff, no idea if it has a name in Dreams).
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
There was a line from a PC Gamer article that said there was a hidden loading scene used in the demo, which Epic refuted and the article was updated
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geordiemp
Member
Playing devils advocate
What is interesting is the UE5 demo was it was so strong on static assests, but moving assests had to use standard techniques (lara girl), so clearly a hybrid solution would be most useful, especially a landscape of moving grass and trees in wind where that technique might struggle ? I am sure its been worked on, but thats the questions I had with teh demo..
I did like the voxel global illumination, we dont need ray tracing next gen really IMO
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
funking giblet
Member
This exact issue came up with VRT before. Virtual Resident Textures initially worked properly only on static meshes as the optimization work is all about a view angle of a particular texture stored on disk. Dynamic movement meant you really didn't know what appendage might be pointing at you at any moment, so they just gave up and fell back to only using it for static geometry.. That is until they cracked it and then used it for dynamic meshes.
Playing devils advocate (see it is possible to argue against that UE5 demo without attacking and shouting like some do)....#
What is interesting is the UE5 demo was it was so strong on static assests, but moving assests had to use standard techniques (lara girl), so clearly a hybrid solution would be most useful, especially a landscape of moving grass and trees in wind where that technique might struggle ? I am sure its been worked on, but thats the questions I had with teh demo..
I did like the voxel global illumination, we dont need ray tracing next gen really IMO
I do not know if it's been solved here, I can only imagine it's using dynamically created structures to solve it, or a number of pregenerated structures.
geordiemp
Member
Yup I agree. hopefully we find out more dev insights soon.
geordiemp
Member
PR, of course Ps4, Xb1, Andoid, Iphone and my doorbell will be supported by the market leading engine.
Does not mean they can run that demo at that scale. More interstingly, was that the best demo, it looks the best yes, but it has no moving scenery or not allot anyway...
Lets see what comes, I liked the global illumination and the detail, but it was a very "static scene", and yes i do believe only Ps5 or optane could of run that demo at this time until I see more evidence to the contrary..
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Let's just be happy and smile for a moment. UE5 will be "awesome" on both XsX and PS5. Everyone wins.
I feel like hugging someone. Let's bro-hug.
geordiemp
Member
I will be happy when I see evidence and demos rather than marketing and buzzwords.
Others are running UE5 also, so how long do you think we will wait ?
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Tim's tweet thread continued, lol
funking giblet
Member
Let me be clear on any opinions about how faster SSDs may or may not make certain things looks better or worse. Both consoles has serious horsepower. This exercise should show people it’s never one thing. When it comes to classical rendering from VRAM, pure speed will matter. Otherwise it depends on how you use the entire system. Some games will take advantage of pure horsepower, others delivering unique data per frame. You would have to be demented to think that this generation isn’t the absolute best we have had for consoles ever. Also, if you look at this and say “my PC does better”. I’m not sure you like technology
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
What the Unreal Engine 5 Demo means for PC
Our hardware experts break down what the Unreal Engine 5 Playstation 5 tech demo means for PC game development.
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Vick
Gold Member
I thought was pretty much assured by now that it will. Obviously that doesn’t mean it will perform better at everything, resolution and possibly RT are going to have advantages on Series X i think, but like enough knowledgeable persons who worked on the thing said already, there will be compromises, at least on geometry. And honestly why even care, there’s so much geometry there you could reduce triangles in half and still don’t notice anything wrong.
Not what i recall. I think a max of 3 users ever mentioned crazy things like 15 teraflops and those for sure never attacked anyone who rightfully claimed otherwise, and few went with the 13 hype and only because “insiders” were hyping them with comments like “never underestimate sony” or “don’t mess with with sony my cofriend” and without actual info or technical knowledge and given the whole teraflop insanity brought by Series X reveal, people guessed was going to be superior on that front, also because of direct 13TF mentions by some of those “insiders”.
Yeah that was sad, we lost John that day (if you’re reading please reconsider, wtf are you doing on Reee anyway, they don’t like games), but motivation was the alleged bias of DF, which to be honest like everything in life is not something entirely black or white for multiple reasons.
That’s a contraddicition, the “supporting evidence” were tried to be discussed multiple times by those very “dozens of threads a day”, but those thread always ended in shitstorms in the very first page because the general attitude was “lol secret sauce” “Series X is superior deal with it”.
That happened, so much in fact that when the moking of Coretek started i even considered giving clicks to the asylum to not feel being on a preschool gaming forum (never did, don’t worry).
There are clearly factions at war on this board, but the amount of Sony hating/downplaying all the time around here is incredible and i don’t see how anyone could pretend it’s not the case except by beign a fanboy in the first place.
FranXico
Member
The irony that the GIF is from a last gen game...RTX: i'm indispensable to get good lights and shadow in games, next gen doesn't have a choice than to integrate me in every game.
UE5 lumen response:
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
"Next-Gen doesn't begin until Ghost Of Tsushima says so." either
Hobbygaming
or
thelastword
(slick GIF tho. I say it again, lighting and colors in that game look great)
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GymWolf
Member
i know but the gif was too good not to use it
also that gif looks better than godfall, a supposed full fledged nextgen game with probably some rtx in it
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MetalAlien
Banned
Lumen is another stepping stone with RTX being the top.RTX: i'm indispensable to get good lights and shadows in games, next gen doesn't have a choice than to integrate me in every game.
UE5 lumen response:
Andodalf
Banned
Yeah It’s a nice showcase of how things can improve on next gen even if full Ray tracing is elusive
pawel86ck
Banned
UE5 tech demo is using RT for GI, just more limited and not HW accelerated.RTX: i'm indispensable to get good lights and shadows in games, next gen doesn't have a choice than to integrate me in every game.
UE5 lumen response:
Everything is explained here
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-Arcadia-
Banned
To add to the Lumen praise, I’m so glad we got this.
RTX just isn’t feasible in all games, at the level we want it to be, without massively hampering next-gen.
Now we get to have some of the advantages of it, and eat our cake too.
I am blown away by some of the software work we’re seeing lately. Nanite, Lumen, DLSS, VRS, and more, are all game-changing technology that let us get far more bang from our hardware than anyone ever expected.
RTX just isn’t feasible in all games, at the level we want it to be, without massively hampering next-gen.
Now we get to have some of the advantages of it, and eat our cake too.
I am blown away by some of the software work we’re seeing lately. Nanite, Lumen, DLSS, VRS, and more, are all game-changing technology that let us get far more bang from our hardware than anyone ever expected.