A lot of PAL CRTs don't support 60Hz, which results in a black and white picture. Using RGB cables often does work in color on such TVs, however. Are you using RGB with your other consoles?
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
The audio shielding isn't as good on the official cable. I can hear more buzzing on mine.Wait, your saying the official Sega Saturn cable doesn't hold a candle to one of r_c_a's cables? Cuz I have an official cable, and the picture is immaculate. Or I could just be "reading" too much into that.
speedlolita
Member
There's actually two different Official Sega Saturn SCART cables.
The second revision has better/correct shielding. The second revision has a more typical SCART plug while the first revision has the same SCART plug as the Dreamcast Official SCART.
The second revision has better/correct shielding. The second revision has a more typical SCART plug while the first revision has the same SCART plug as the Dreamcast Official SCART.
D.Lo
Member
60Hz does not equal NTSC. Your 60Hz PAL DC/GC/XB games would have been PAL60. PS2 would have been NTSC, but very few PAL PS2 games had 60HZ, something like 100 out of thousands.
That said, yes RF is the least likely input to support NTSC colour on either display.
No, if they don't support 60Hz you'll either get no signal or a rolling/messed up picture. Some support PAL60, which is PAL colour at 60Hz, this is what 60Hz modes in most consoles would output (or a 60Hz modded PAL console).
Black and White picture is from TVs that do not support NTSC but DO support 60Hz.
Are you serious? I have a Panasonic plasma and although I don't have a 720p source on hand to try it out, I can squish stuff back to 4:3 with 1080p sources. The only one it won't budge the ratio at all on is broadcast TV, but any of the AV channels are fair game for changing the aspect ratio.
It's because of the Shitty RF.
How likely are TV from one region to display signal from another region:
- 50/60Hz RGB: All TV
- PAL / NTSC through Composite or S-Video: many TV except early or very cheap ones (at the time, now all tubes are cheap). Seems PAL TV are better with NTSC than the opposite.
- PAL / NTSC through RF (broadcast, shitty console cables): very few TV.
NTSC through RF is another beast entirely, and most manufacturers didn't bother to include it, to reduce costs. You're very unlikely to use your TV with both signals unless you travel to another continent with it. NTSC through Composite is more common because it's easier to import a VHS, camcorder or whatnot from another region.
[edit] Don't expect to have it work if you buy a new HDTV. Now that every country is transiting to digital TV broadcast, there is no reason to include an analogue RF decoder.
Soon will be the death of the RF Defence Force muahaha
IrishNinja
Member
technology is cyclical; soon glorious RF defense force & it's use of beepers will be the envy of all
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Beepers?
IrishNinja
Member
Ein Bear
Member
Thanks! Glad to hear that it's most likely due to the RF cable, I was hoping that would be the case! My S Video should be arriving in the post soon, fingers crossed that will sort it.
You're right, I mixed up NTSC with 60Hz.
My point still stands, however. Using RGB cables may take care of the issue. My PAL TV would show black and white with AV cables but in proper color with an RGB cable. RGB doesn't use PAL or NTSC color encoding like composite/s-video cables. So my concern was that an s-video cable may still result in a black and white picture due to NTSC color encoding. Hopefully Khaz above is correct, though, and s-video will take care of it.
On a whim, I just picked up one of these to hook up my Dreamcast to my set via HDMI via the Dreamcast's VGA-out.
It's called the "OREI XD-600 VGA to HDMI Video Converter -Upscaler"
The image is pretty clear at 720p, and there appears to be no lag (or at least, none I can detect... there's probably at least 1 frame of lag). But the 1080p upscaling flat out doesnt work (it is discolored).
Unfortunately, this thing forces 4:3 content into widescreen at both resolutions and there's no way for my set to format back to 4:3 without cutting off some of the picture. So it's basically useless for 4:3 gaming. But if you don't mind a stretched picture, or have a set that can somehow squish a widescreen 720p picture to 4:3 (unlikely), this might be a good option on a tight budget.
It really looks good for a $30 item if you can get passed the forced widescreen (but I can't).
Think I'm going to try this option.
Does anyone know of somewhere to buy the Tomee VGA cable in the UK?
Thanks. Do I get hit by import tax for stuff like this?
I hope not.=O
You just ordered one?
Nah I got mine months ago and they work perfectly.
GayForMaster
Banned
Hey guys, I'm gonna sell my framemeister and pool that towards a Sony PVM 20L5. At the end of the day, the framemeister is an amazing device but the resolution blackouts are just unacceptable. Just to prepare myself for Sony PVM use, I'll need just 1 SCART to BNC for rgb devices right? From what I've read, the 20L5 can do component as well, does it straight up take component or does component need to be converted to bnc as well?
Friend of Sonic
Member
Component is done through the same jacks as RGB. I scored a cheap module off of eBay that gives me a second set of RGB/Component, so now I have one input for scart and the other for component. I just toggle with a button push, nifty
theSlacker
Member
BNC is just a connector. Fortunately there are RCA to BNC plug adapters that you just put onto the inputs and can plug your normal component inputs into.
The reason why all the RGB cables, even custom made ones, use scart is because it is more standard. The only thing that uses BNC really is the PVMs, BVMs, and their clones, no euro tvs or switches.
Ooh link? I'm kinda thinking even though I don't use component much on my PVM it'd be kinda cool for comparisons and stuff.
Friend of Sonic
Member
Module BKM-129X
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...8.TRC1.A0.H0.Xbkm-129X&_nkw=bkm-129X&_sacat=0
There's nothing listed, except for one at a ludicrous price. I sniped mine at auction for $30 shipped, which is definitely worth it for the convenience. I'm not sure what other PVMs aside from 20l5 use the module.
Ohh it's a plug in module, neat! I might keep a look out for the equivalent for my PVMs. I thought it might have been a splitter of sorts (maybe I'll keep an eye out for something like that too).
Friend of Sonic
Member
Oh! My bad! That would be cool (though what's cool is that it remembers what the input was set to, so when I toggle to the module input, it remembers it was component, and it remembers the RGB/Component primary input was set to RGB)
Asked in the retro unite thread so i'll ask here too just in case:
Anyone ever have any issues with those SCART to Component converter boxes loosing connection? Its happened to me recently, but I dont know if its the SCART cables i've been using, or if the box connection is just becoming loose.
Seems like if the SCART cables connecting to the box slightly wiggly a little (they used to fit really tight) the video signal either goes black and white, all red, or just becomes all wavy. Hopefully its not the cables since those are sorta hard to get (bought them from the retro console accessories seller on ebay back in the day).
The one I have for reference.
Anyone ever have any issues with those SCART to Component converter boxes loosing connection? Its happened to me recently, but I dont know if its the SCART cables i've been using, or if the box connection is just becoming loose.
Seems like if the SCART cables connecting to the box slightly wiggly a little (they used to fit really tight) the video signal either goes black and white, all red, or just becomes all wavy. Hopefully its not the cables since those are sorta hard to get (bought them from the retro console accessories seller on ebay back in the day).
The one I have for reference.
I have the same one and I don't have that problem at all, may be the device itself.
IrishNinja
Member
i play countless games on my framemeister, the res change barely affects me. i think the worst game for it is Saturn SOTN, to be honest.
if you're okay with emulation & assuming it's gotten better about save problems/damaging carts i think it's a fair call, but isn't it like $150 or so? the XRGB-mini is around $300 but whatever model they invariably announce next year should drive that down as well, if you don't mind the wait.
if you're okay with emulation & assuming it's gotten better about save problems/damaging carts i think it's a fair call, but isn't it like $150 or so? the XRGB-mini is around $300 but whatever model they invariably announce next year should drive that down as well, if you don't mind the wait.
It's definitely useful for the NES at the very least.
bodine1231
Member
I think the Retron has a scanline filter but not sure how good it is. The other problem is that it doesnt play everything,so if you want Saturn,Dreamcast,PSX,etc. you're out of luck.
I sold my XRGB about 6 months ago and I'm thinking about getting another one. It really is worth it if you play older consoles alot. If you only bust them out every now and then,then maybe try and get a PVM or comparable CRT. I wish the price was $199 then it'd be a no brainer.
robot
Member
If you have the old systems already, I'd go w/ a framemeister. I got mine a few weeks ago and have been blown away by RGB quality. Hell, even my Twin Famicom looks awesome using composite on the framemeister. I'll eventually RGB mod it but for now it's great.
The retron is definitely cheaper but I always hear how the build quality is poor. Death grips on the cartridges, having to hold the power button for like 5 seconds to boot it up...plus it's hardware emulation which is just never the same imo. I also catch frame skips and stuff when playing emulators and it drives me nuts.
If you have RGB ready consoles I'd say skip the retron. If you have to RGB mod say an NES and buy a frameister, that's a lot of cash to drop so maybe the retron is a good solution.
To me it was worth it since I wanted to play SNES, Genesis, SMS, Saturn, PS1, and eventually Famicom/FDS through RGB.
Yeah, and I play a lot of Saturn, so that's a point for the Framemeister.
True that, though I have someone that could mod my NES to have RGB, though he's not doing it for peanuts so I'll think about it.
I'm ok with the Dreamcast since I have a VGA box, but it's true for the Saturn and and PSX, there's an eventual Turbo Duo I'd like to buy that could be nice for it, too.
Yeah, I have all the consoles, which would make it a good investment I guess. I heard about the Retron 5's poor quality too, which is kind of a turn off as well.
Welp, I think I'll be going with a framemeister now, I'll just need to put some money on the side and I think I'll buy one for my birthday in October. Thanks for all the answers, guys!
It's most probably the scart input on your device failing. Scart is notoriously fragile, especially at the female input. This is why I advise people not to plug/unplug their stuff and instead use a switchbox or a multi adaptor. It's easier to buy another adapter than a TV, eh.
It should be reasonably easy to repair though, just open it and redo the soldering of the input (as in, melt the solder point and let them get back to shape). But please stop constantly switching cables.
GayForMaster
Banned
I would personally never buy the Retron 5, emulation isn't my thing. I also tried building a setup to accommodate all my consoles using the framemeister, but that didn't work out so I decided to get rid of that and have a PVM next to my HDTV.
What kind of stuff are you playing anyway? Pre-N64/PS1/Saturn gen games? Just know that the framemeister is absolutely horrible for N64/PS1/Saturn and 480p systems.
Are you sure it's actually "squishing" 1080p sources and not merely cropping the sides to create the 4:3 shape? Because I have a Panasonic Plasma as well, and mine doesn't do what you're describing.
sixteen-bit
Member
why do you say that?
PS1/Saturn are doing fine from what I saw.
The N64 needs to be RGB modded iirc, it's fine after that too.
I've only played a little bit of PS1/Saturn/N64 on my Framemeister (Too much time playing Genesis, it looks phenomenal!), but what I have played has looked phenomenal, and that's even with the N64 only over S-Video.
I've heard that 480i PS2 games looks quite good as well. Haven't even tried that yet (My PS2 is giving me Disc Read Errors, so I have to tinker/buy a slim).
I've heard that 480i PS2 games looks quite good as well. Haven't even tried that yet (My PS2 is giving me Disc Read Errors, so I have to tinker/buy a slim).
GayForMaster
Banned
Have you guys even tried N64...? It's a blurry mess. I might have been wrong about Saturn, right... Panzer Dragoon looked fine but PS1 is also bad because of how many good games use dynamic resolution. Silent Hill is literally unplayable because of that 5-7 second black screen shit. It was just way too aggravating, so I sold the thing and went the PVM route. I was also thinking about starting Dino Crisis after Silent Hill but by the gods all dem resolution changes...
I woulda kept it for Wii VC (unless you only like going cart route).
GayForMaster
Banned
Well I know what you mean, but yeah I've only been going the cart route. I don't really have that many VC games, only a few that I bought around the time I got my wii at launch before I started to splurge all over retro the past 2 years.
Later Alligator
Member
For anyone on the fence between getting a frame meister or a retron (assuming you dont have the consoles yet)
Do you have a wii? If yes buy a framemeister, sodtmod the wii and jam it full of emulators. Use that while you get the consoles, as budget permits. Wii via component to the framemeister looks godly
Obviously emulation isnt great, but its only temporary whole you acquire said systems and scart cables, which is pretty pricey depending on how deep you plan on your collection being
Do you have a wii? If yes buy a framemeister, sodtmod the wii and jam it full of emulators. Use that while you get the consoles, as budget permits. Wii via component to the framemeister looks godly
Obviously emulation isnt great, but its only temporary whole you acquire said systems and scart cables, which is pretty pricey depending on how deep you plan on your collection being
Is your N64 RGB modded?
S-video but they have to be rewirred, something to do with the brightness I think. RGB is as you say a mod.
Yep, I'll see if I can take a photo and show you later.
IrishNinja
Member
did you even use RGB cables? this is like that time Carmack hooked up a composite NES over it & complained
seriously, first six months or so of my unit it was mostly all Saturn stuff
please do, we absolutely could use more hardware impressions here!
Have you ever tried N64? it's always been a blurry mess; you RGB mod it so it's less so. you can't put composite signals into an upscaler & magically make them right. you'll get the right aspect ration & res, but the source is still shit.
i don't recall 5-7 seconds on my SH1, but as for Dino Crisis - if you weren't playing the DC port, you kinda get what you paid for
Odd. What model is it? I've owned two Panasonic plasmas, one from 2006 and another from 2011, and both merely cropped the sides of HD images in 4:3 mode with no alternative to "squish" the image horizontally. They will, however, do that for 480p or below.
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