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[Earthbound64]

Frankly, it's about time.
Too many instances of people going there, and then expecting to be bailed out / negative reactions when they aren't bailed out.

 

[Earthbound64]

I don't regret going, and I don't need to defend going to anyone.

TL;DR - Surreal, friendly and hardworking - like a life size Truman Show that has ran for three generations, North Korea (DPRK) is a travel experience unlikely to be repeated in any society in the future of humanity.

 

[Gnome Scat]

This is the one travel ban I agree with, nothing good can come out of visiting North Korea. You're funding a horrible government through tourism and you are putting yourself at great risk by traveling there. Also, it's not like North Koreans can immigrate of have duel citizenship, so no harm there.

 

[Nerokis]

Which is likely not in our lifetimes

We'll see. The situation right now is unique, because Trump came in acting like his administration would no longer have patience for North Korea, and instead would rethink the use of force. Plus, he's erratic and stupid, which adds a certain unpredictability to the environment. NK's advancement toward IBM technology that could reach the US is also disruptive, and we're still not sure what the new equilibrium will be.

I know people who (perhaps irrationally) have put off plans to travel to South Korea, even, because of the state of things today. There have been better times to visit Pyongyang.

This is what rationalization looks like, people.

More importantly, it's what context looks like. I don't know how accurate the post is, but that sort of information is pretty relevant to this discussion.

 

[El-Suave]

Hilarious that a country that is so paranoid about socialism or communism is employing these trademark restrictions on its people.

 

[JettDash]

Hilarious that a country that is so paranoid about socialism or communism is employing these trademark restrictions on its people.

Given that the the US government does not give two shits if Americans leave the country and is only telling us not to go to this one totalitarian shithole, your point is very stupid.

 

[partime]

I'm cool with people having to deal with consequences of their own actions.

If they tell you to bow down and worship Kim Jong-un, you best do what they say.

 

[El-Suave]

Given that the the US government does not give two shits if Americans leave the country and is only telling us not to go to this one totalitarian shithole, your point is very stupid.

Telling and warning your citizens not to do something is one thing, most countries do that when it comes to international travels. Actively grounding your people like the op suggests is on another level.

 

[slit]

Telling and warning your citizens not to do something is one thing, most countries do that when it comes to international travels. Actively grounding your people like the op suggests is on another level.

So should the gov't have to rescue the person if they get detained even though they were told they could be used as bargaining chips by a paranoid dictator if he simply feels like it?

 

[El-Suave]

So should the gov't have to rescue the person if they get detained even though they were told they could be used as bargaining chips by a paranoid dictator if he simply feels like it?

What the country does to help its citizens in distress is up to the country. In Germany, people who stupidly went to dangerous regions weren't visibly helped or they were bailed out sometimes in the past. There are risks a society has to take. In Germany were health insurance works differently people aren't discouraged from doing i.e. extreme sports that could cause massive costs "for everybody" if something goes wrong. Drinking too much alcohol which is causing big problems for society isn't really frowned upon either. It's all a matter of personal freedom.
And the support through this for an obviously bad regime like North Korea is minimal, negligible in fact - we're hosting the World Cups in Russia and Quatar. And there is so much investment from questionable countries in the US and Europe and we're doing arms deals with some of those countries all the time.

 

[linkboy]

Honestly, I'm OK with this.

There's really no reason to go to North Korea as long as the Kim runs the country.

I'd much rather go to South Korea. Seoul is amazing, and I've got friends in Gwangju that I'd like to see (I was stationed in Korea for a year).

 

[MikeHattsu]

Looks like you can still go there for certain humanitarian reasons and you're not just going there to ogle at shit and take selfies:
http://time.com/4868543/north-korea-travel-special-passport/

"Due to mounting concerns over the serious risk of arrest and long-term detention under North Korea's system of law enforcement, the secretary has authorized a Geographical Travel Restriction on all U.S. citizen nationals' use of a passport to travel in, through or to North Korea," department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said in a statement.

Once it takes effect, Americans wanting to travel to North Korea may do so legally only with a "special validation passport," which will be granted by the State Department on a case-by-case basis for "certain limited humanitarian or other purposes," the statement said.

It did not elaborate on what "other purposes" the department would consider to be legitimate for travel to North Korea.

 

[Gutek]

Would it be alright if your home country simply forgot about you then if you go there and they decide to detain you? Or do you feel you have a right to be used as propaganda by the NK gov't?

Please tell me this is sarcastic.

Is there a reason your comparison has to be laughable dishonest?

The East German government restricted travel by forcefully stopping people from leaving the country and going to the West.

The US government doesn't give a shit if you leave the country. Or go to any country in the world, except for the totalitarian hermit state that the US has technically been at war with since 1950.

Any specific reason you guys hate freedom so much?

 

[El-Suave]

Looks like you can still go there for certain humanitarian reasons and you're not just going there to ogle at shit and take selfies:
http://time.com/4868543/north-korea-travel-special-passport/

It's good that North Korea is probably thoughtfully differentiating between tourists and humanitarians when it comes to arrests (like i.e. Turkey does these days). People who are there for those reasons are probably bigger thorns in the eye and targets of Kim's regime than a tourist, at least those bring in some money.

 

[F34R]

If they tell you to bow down and worship Kim Jong-un, you best do what they say.

If you go there, it's your problem.

 

[slit]

What the country does to help its citizens in distress is up to the country. In Germany, people who stupidly went to dangerous regions weren't visibly helped or they were bailed out sometimes in the past. There are risks a society has to take. In Germany were health insurance works differently people aren't discouraged from doing i.e. extreme sports that could cause massive costs "for everybody" if something goes wrong. Drinking too much alcohol which is causing big problems for society isn't really frowned upon either. It's all a matter of personal freedom.
And the support through this for an obviously bad regime like North Korea is minimal, negligible in fact - we're hosting the World Cups in Russia and Quatar. And there is so much investment from questionable countries in the US and Europe and we're doing arms deals with some of those countries all the time.

Yes and then if they don't, the world will say they don't care about their citizens and start crying that their human rights are being violated not to mention now the NK gov't will attempt to extort money and resources out of the country they are trying to blackmail. Either way they then become a show piece of the Kim Jong Un regime.

This is not a comparison of which country is worse, it's NOT Russia vs Quatar vs NK. It's about which gov't will attempt to kidnap people from a specific country. I have no idea where you are going with alcohol consumption comparison. It makes no sense in the context of this discussion.

 

[The Jazz Cabbage Master]

So it's a good idea unless it comes from Trump.

Lmao

I was thinking the same thing... some posters here have weird af logic

 

[slit]

Any specific reason you guys hate freedom so much?

Any specific reason you're throwing around false equivalencies so much?

 

[7DollarHagane]

Hilarious that a country that is so paranoid about socialism or communism is employing these trademark restrictions on its people.

Yeah, let's get rid of all those socialist road signs, speed limits, and guardrails on the freeway!

Allowing people to make unreasonably dangerous choices that have no actual benefit or reason behind their risk is just stupidity. It costs everyone to save them when they inevitably are endangered or harmed. Then the rest of the people who don't do the stupid dangerous thing have to pay for it.

 

[Toros]

Great stance - will protect the young and adventurous but naive from that place.
I just wish there was some peaceful way of liberating that whole country.

 

[El-Suave]

Yes and then if they don't, the world will say they don't care about their citizens and start crying that their human rights are being violated not to mention now the NK gov't will attempt to extort money and resources out of the country they are trying to blackmail. Either way they then become a show piece of the Kim Jong Un regime.

"Not negotiating with terrorists" is a universally accepted response for hostage situations. I doubt there would much of an outcry as long as the the US in this case would try the basic diplomatic options it'd have in such a case. The sad Warmbier case didn't make much international news to my knowledge until he was "released" by North Korea. It was probably the first time most people have heard of his story.

 

[Fenderputty]

Land of the free

Lol

 

[slit]

"Not negotiating with terrorsists" is a universally accepted response for hostage situations. I doubt there would much of an outcry as long as the the US in this case would try the basic diplomatic options it'd have in such a case. The sad Warmbier case didn't make much international news to my knowledge until he was "released" by North Korea. It was probably the first time most people have heard of his story.

It's universally accepted for official governments not private citizens and entities in those countries. When an American is kidnapped in NK, it's almost always a story.

 

[RinsFury]

Good. It disgusts me that people actually travel there and directly fund that murderous regime.

 

[andythinkpad]

Took them long enough.

 

[El-Suave]

It's universally accepted for official governments not private citizens and entities in those countries. When an American is kidnapped in NK, it's always a story.

In the US no doubt, but you were talking internationally. At the moment it might be a bit more of a story but in general it's only of interest for the country that unfortunate person is from. Tabloids abroad might pick it up like they do when some teen is caned in some country because they did something illegal, but it's not national news in other countries.

 

[Gutek]

Any specific reason you're throwing around false equivalencies so much?

I don't like it when my government tells me where I can and cannot go.

 

[slit]

In the US no doubt, but you were talking internationally. At the moment it might be a bit more of a story but in general it's only of interest for the country that unfortunate person is from. Tabloids abroad might pick it up like they do when some teen is caned in some country because they did something illegal, but it's not national news in other countries.

Man, you're just going to dig in no matter what. It doesn't have to be front page news in every country to be effective blackmailing tool for companies and families who are extorted. It doesn't have to be front page news in every country to be an effective propaganda tool for the NK regime.

I don't like it when my government tells me where I can and cannot go.

I don't like it when people are dummies and expect to be bailed out when they go to the front door of a murderous dictator who can snatch them in an instant.

 

[Gutek]

Man, you're just going to dig in no matter what. It doesn't have to be front page news in every country to be effective blackmailing tool for companies and families who are extorted. It doesn't have to be front page news in every country to be an effective propaganda tool for the NK regime.


I don't like it when people are dummies and expect to be bailed out when they go to the front door of a murderous dictator.

That's fine. Don't do it then. Don't ban me from traveling where I please, though.

 

[slit]

That's fine. Don't do it then. Don't ban me from traveling where I please, though.

I am going to ban you because it doesn't just effect me or you.

 

[MikeHattsu]

It's good that North Korea is probably thoughtfully differentiating between tourists and humanitarians when it comes to arrests (like i.e. Turkey does these days). People who are there for those reasons are probably bigger thorns in the eye and targets of Kim's regime than a tourist, at least those bring in some money.

At least people here who wanted to go should be fine, cause they all wanted to go for selfless reasons like interacting with the locals, show North Koreans how Americans really are, help relations and the local economy and see how it really is. Now they can still go as humanitarians. I'm sure everybody will sign up to do so right away, right? Right.

 

[Keri]

I don't regret going, and I don't need to defend going to anyone. I enjoyed the trip, and would go again. Maybe not right now as the tensions are at their peak, but with a Finnish passport I am pretty safe. No regrets.

I mean, it's true that you don't have to defend yourself for going...but you're still a shitty person for going.

 

[Vilix]

I see this as a seatbelt law. Common sense tells you to wear a seatbelt, just like common sense tells you not to go to North Korea. But, there are those who just won't listen to reason and big brother has to step in.

 

[RinsFury]

I don't regret going, and I don't need to defend going to anyone. I enjoyed the trip, and would go again. Maybe not right now as the tensions are at their peak, but with a Finnish passport I am pretty safe. No regrets.

You'd go again, huh? Was gawking at the slaves in Kim Jong's zoo that entertaining for you?

 

[neojubei]

Now I kind of want to go to North Korea.

 

[Shadow Puppetry]

Finally.

 

[JettDash]

Telling and warning your citizens not to do something is one thing, most countries do that when it comes to international travels. Actively grounding your people like the op suggests is on another level.

Most countries don't have a totalitarian rogue state whose people have been indoctrinated to hate them as evil imperialists and their worst enemy.


And grounding? Fucking please. You're acting as if Americans aren't allowed to leave the country at all. Really there is one country banned and it is the worst one in the world.

Hopefully Americans will bo longer go to NK, get arrested for nothing/something stupid, and burden the US government with the responsibility to get them back.

Any specific reason you guys hate freedom so much?

I value my freedom to go to NK as much as I value my freedom to go hang out outside in a terrible neighborhood run by gangbangers.

 

[Chittagong]

I mean, it's true that you don't have to defend yourself for going...but you're still a shitty person for going.

I'm fine with people having that opinion of me.

And I think USA is right to ban their citizens from going, because it takes leverage away from North Korea.

You'd go again, huh? Was gawking at the slaves in Kim Jong's zoo that entertaining for you?

It was the most thought provoking and memorable trip of my life, so yes, if I was facing the choice again, I'd go. Now that I've been, I wouldn't do the same trip again, because it'd be the same thing. But if I was invited to PUST to speak, for example, or to a trade show, I'd definitely consider going.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Don't you have to fly to another country in order to fly to North Korea? I thought we already had this ban.

 

[KillLaCam]

How do bans like this even work though?

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Good.

And fuck all the look-at-me special snowflakes that thought they were doing themselves and NK a favor by visiting there.

 

[mieumieu]

I'm fine with people having that opinion of me.

And I think USA is right to ban their citizens from going, because it takes leverage away from North Korea.



It was the most thought provoking and memorable trip of my life, so yes, if I was facing the choice again, I'd go. Now that I've been, I wouldn't do the same trip again, because it'd be the same thing. But if I was invited to PUST to speak, for example, or to a trade show, I'd definitely consider going.

Speaking as Chinese I implore you to not go. Just don't. You are not doing thrm any favor and just looks exploitative.

Even my Putin/Xi loving father wouldn't go because he also feels it is too exploitative and condescending.

 

[Game-Biz]

About fucking time.

 

[SlaughterX]

Damn, there goes my vacation... was really looking forward to that all inclusive bread and water resort. Heard they were running low on bread anyway, fuck it.

 

[BocoDragon]

Damn, there goes my vacation... was really looking forward to that all inclusive bread and water resort. Heard they were running low on bread anyway, fuck it.

Hey, it's better than the Fyre Festival.

 

[Kin5290]

1. Those countries aren't anywhere close to being as bad as NK.

2. None of those countries you mentioned are dictatorships.

Saudi Arabia is a despotic monarchy, which is pretty damn close.

The real answer is that none of those countries have a habit of arresting random American tourists and imprisoning them for questionable espionage charges in courts that are completely nontransparent and do not follow due process.

Along with North Korea, Iran (a theocratic republic, as opposed to Saudi Arabia's despotic monarchy) also does.

Honestly, this might be a good idea. The problem with saying that these American tourists know the risk that they are taking is that the American government is expected to work to free them regardless. It's diplomatic capital and resources being aimed at negotiating an American prisoner's release that could be better used elsewhere.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Hilarious that a country that is so paranoid about socialism or communism is employing these trademark restrictions on its people.

Do people think that the US is just some lawless anarchy or something? People are acting like this is the only law the US has ever made.

 

[Opto]

This is probably the right thing to do.

The concern to have about the USA banning its citizens from traveling to other countries is that it would make an act of escaping the US illegal. But banning travel just to N. Korea? Not really setting off alarms

 

[Condom]

You'd go again, huh? Was gawking at the slaves in Kim Jong's zoo that entertaining for you?

What a complete disrespect for the NK people, they're not animals or robot slaves.

 

[fabricated backlash]

What a complete disrespect for the NK people, they're not animals or robot slaves.

You are right zoo animals are treated much better by their captors.