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[doncale]

the Iraq occupation will drag on for longer than Vietnam. although I don't expect U.S. deaths to reach the 50,000+ dead from Vietnam. maybe 10,000

 

[Keio]

Iraqi freedom fighters will not accept American or Western forces keeping order, but if Kerry keeps his word and manages to build a UN supported coalition, UN mandated Arab forces could very probably quiet things down. That's what I'm hoping for - that just means that rebuilding contracts etc. must be distributed quite differently than handing them uncontested to Halliburton & friends.

And yes, it's a lot different to be fighting as an invader with no sound rationale than a soldier in WW2 where there was no mistaking that Hitler was a true threat to the world. It is insulting and patronizing that GWB & Blair compare Iraq to WW2. And prewar comparisons about appeasing Hitler & negotiations with Saddam... don't even get me started on that... No wonder the troops feel let down.

Add to that the fact that it must feel terrible and stressful to be hated by everyone - both the fighters and most ordinary people. And also having the huge language gap which makes it impossible to contact with the locals.

edit: tired, many mistakes corrected

 

[Trasher]

Iraqi freedom fighters will not accept American or Western forces keeping order, but if Kerry keeps his word and manages to build a UN supported coalition, UN mandated Arab forces could very probably quiet things down. That's what I'm hoping for - that just means that rebuilding contracts etc. must be distributed quite differently than handing them uncontested to Halliburton & friends.

And yes, it's a lot different to be fighting as an invader with no sound rationale than a soldier in WW2 where there was no mistaking that Hitler was a true threat to the world. It is insulting and patronizing that GWB & Blair compare Iraq to WW2. And prewar comparisons about appeasing Hitler & negotiations with Saddam... don't even get me started on that... No wonder the troops feel let down.

Add to that the fact that it must feel terrible and stressful to be hated by everyone - both the fighters and most ordinary people. And also having the huge language gap which makes it impossible to contact with the locals.

edit: tired, many mistakes corrected

There was no mistaking Saddam was a threat to the world. He slaughtered thousands of his people, and he had the ability and resources to construct WOMD. He even may have. There is a lot of sand out there, and Saddam could hide planes and such in it. So why couldn't he have done the same with WOMD? The Two Towers attack death toll was higher than the Pearl Harbor death toll. What does it say to other countries (that hate us) if we do not respond to that attack? Going to Iraq was an example to every country in the world that hates us. If you are gonna mess with the U.S., then we are gonna come after you. It would be dumb to not retaliate after an attack like that. It would show that we (the U.S) can be pushed around. That wouldn't feel like a safe U.S.

 

[Hitokage]

There was no mistaking Saddam was a threat to the world. He slaughtered thousands of his people, and he had the ability and resources to construct WOMD. He even may have. There is a lot of sand out there, and Saddam could hide planes and such in it. So why couldn't he have done the same with WOMD? The Two Towers attack death toll was higher than the Pearl Harbor death toll. What does it say to other countries (that hate us) if we do not respond to that attack? Going to Iraq was an example to every country in the world that hates us. If you are gonna mess with the U.S., then we are gonna come after you. It would be dumb to not retaliate after an attack like that. It would show that we (the U.S) can be pushed around. That wouldn't feel like a safe U.S.

Somebody's been asleep for the past 2 years.

 

[Swordian]

There was no mistaking Saddam was a threat to the world. He slaughtered thousands of his people, and he had the ability and resources to construct WOMD. He even may have. There is a lot of sand out there, and Saddam could hide planes and such in it. So why couldn't he have done the same with WOMD? The Two Towers attack death toll was higher than the Pearl Harbor death toll. What does it say to other countries (that hate us) if we do not respond to that attack? Going to Iraq was an example to every country in the world that hates us. If you are gonna mess with the U.S., then we are gonna come after you. It would be dumb to not retaliate after an attack like that. It would show that we (the U.S) can be pushed around. That wouldn't feel like a safe U.S.

We responded to Pearl Harbor by attacking Japan. You know why? They're the ones that attacked us. Notice how that logic doesn't apply to Iraq. Yes, a retaliation was necessary, but the retaliation needed to be against Osama and not random bad man.

 

[mashoutposse]

What I don't understand is why 9/11 and WMDs always seem to be linked. Certainly, it was a disastrous event, but the tools used were far, FAR from anything even remotely "WMD-like." Basically, it was a dozen guys with box cutters -- as bad as the WTC/Pentagon attacks were, terrorists' are still quite far from proving their ability to effectively strike us using some sort of WMD.

This administration REALLY needs to stop it with the worthless scare tactics.

 

[Incognito]

There was no mistaking Saddam was a threat to the world. He slaughtered thousands of his people, and he had the ability and resources to construct WOMD. He even may have. There is a lot of sand out there, and Saddam could hide planes and such in it. So why couldn't he have done the same with WOMD? The Two Towers attack death toll was higher than the Pearl Harbor death toll. What does it say to other countries (that hate us) if we do not respond to that attack? Going to Iraq was an example to every country in the world that hates us. If you are gonna mess with the U.S., then we are gonna come after you. It would be dumb to not retaliate after an attack like that. It would show that we (the U.S) can be pushed around. That wouldn't feel like a safe U.S.

LOL!!!!!!!!

 

[Belfast]

There was no mistaking Saddam was a threat to the world. He slaughtered thousands of his people, and he had the ability and resources to construct WOMD. He even may have. There is a lot of sand out there, and Saddam could hide planes and such in it. So why couldn't he have done the same with WOMD? The Two Towers attack death toll was higher than the Pearl Harbor death toll. What does it say to other countries (that hate us) if we do not respond to that attack? Going to Iraq was an example to every country in the world that hates us. If you are gonna mess with the U.S., then we are gonna come after you. It would be dumb to not retaliate after an attack like that. It would show that we (the U.S) can be pushed around. That wouldn't feel like a safe U.S.

AMEEEEERICA! FUCK YEEEAHHH!!!

 

[ShadowRed]

There was no mistaking Saddam was a threat to the world. He slaughtered thousands of his people, and he had the ability and resources to construct WOMD. He even may have. There is a lot of sand out there, and Saddam could hide planes and such in it. So why couldn't he have done the same with WOMD? The Two Towers attack death toll was higher than the Pearl Harbor death toll. What does it say to other countries (that hate us) if we do not respond to that attack? Going to Iraq was an example to every country in the world that hates us. If you are gonna mess with the U.S., then we are gonna come after you. It would be dumb to not retaliate after an attack like that. It would show that we (the U.S) can be pushed around. That wouldn't feel like a safe U.S.

Please stop this Saddam was a threat to the world crap. Unless by world you mean the US' plans for geopolitical domination of the middle east then yeah he was a threat. Other than that he was nothing. Go ask anyone in Brazil, Batswana(sp), Columbia, Sweden, Cambodia, the list goes on. Saddam killing his people sucked and everything, but there are other countries that make Saddam look like a fairly nice guy, why are we not "liberating" them first? Shit there is a on going genocide in Sudan yet the US hasn't marshalled it's self rightoues army to free those people. As far as your WMD argument, shit even Bush isn't sticking to that claim any more, you need to read the paper more. Last but not least 911 had nothing to do with Iraq. Nothing, nadda, bumpkiss, zero, zilch. Yet, as Kerry has pointed out. The man who was responsible for 911 was surounded and we outsource the job of catching/killing him to people who he was breaking bread with last week. :rolleyes

 

[DarienA]

Is this another joke character?

 

[Ripclawe]

but if Kerry keeps his word and manages to build a UN supported coalition, UN mandated Arab forces could very probably quiet things down. That's what I'm hoping for - that just means that rebuilding contracts etc. must be distributed quite differently than handing them uncontested to Halliburton & friends.

Arab countries do not trust one another for a lot of reason, mostly tribal/ethnic differences.

You can't bring in more sunni muslims troops(syria, Jordan) because the shia would object
Turks? Kurds would be up in arms. Saudis? That will never work. Where else are you going to get Muslim troops. Then you have this whole UN mandate, IRaqis hate the UN because of sanctions, cozying up to Saddam and living it up during the sanctions and they won't take kindly to the UN telling them anything.

As for this quote, I forgot about the UCMJ, bitching is one thing, daring the military to do something about it is just stupid.

Asked if he was concerned that the Marines would be punished for speaking out, Autin responded: "We don't give a crap. What are they going to do, send us to Iraq?"

http://www.army.mil/references/UCMJ/ucmj2.html

888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS
Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.


933. ART. 133. CONDUCT UNBECOMING AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN
Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

934. ART. 134. GENERAL ARTICLE
Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.

 

[xsarien]

The point is that any "punishment" they receive would be more preferable than spending more time in Iraq.

 

[Ripclawe]

The point is that any "punishment" they receive would be more preferable than spending more time in Iraq.

who said their punishment wouldn't be in Iraq, thats why I said don't dare the military to do something to you.

 

[Matt]

who said their punishment wouldn't be in Iraq, thats why I said don't dare the military to do something to you.

Maybe, but at least they wouldn’t be killed siting in a military prison.

 

[DarienA]

who said their punishment wouldn't be in Iraq, thats why I said don't dare the military to do something to you.

Rip we don't have a military prison in Iraq, any military prison time that lead to a court martial would bring the soldier back to the US to serve in a military prison in the US.

 

[Trasher]

Yeah that was probably not a smart thing to say.

 

[Dilbert]

Ripclawe, have you EVER been a soldier? If so, I want the name of your specific unit, and references to actual military actions that you've been involved in.

You have an AWFUL lot to say about soldiers and their opinions, so before I rip you a new one, I'm waiting to hear if you have any basis whatsoever for running your mouth.

 

[Hitokage]

Ripclawe, have you EVER been a soldier? If so, I want the name of your specific unit, and references to actual military actions that you've been involved in.

You have an AWFUL lot to say about soldiers and their opinions, so before I rip you a new one, I'm waiting to hear if you have any basis whatsoever for running your mouth.

Wait while he consults with instapundit.

 

[DarienA]

Ripclawe, have you EVER been a soldier? If so, I want the name of your specific unit, and references to actual military actions that you've been involved in.

You have an AWFUL lot to say about soldiers and their opinions, so before I rip you a new one, I'm waiting to hear if you have any basis whatsoever for running your mouth.

Hey Rip I've been a solider PM me and I can give you some stuff to feed to the forum... oh wait I don't agree with your opinion... can't help ya bud.

 

[Ripclawe]

You have an AWFUL lot to say about soldiers and their opinions, so before I rip you a new one, I'm waiting to hear if you have any basis whatsoever for running your mouth.

The assertions made by some of the marines do not hold up to the facts, that's what I disagreed with it. As for military ties, relatives in the Navy and Army. They talked to me about the military and the #1 thing was follow the rules and not put yourself into situations where the forces can get you. That's my basis in saying probably all the guys in the article are going to get into trouble.

 

[KingV]

I am currently in the military, and in my experience this is not the stance most people in the Navy that I know have on this issue. The few Marines I know, also do not take this position. In fact the one that I know the best is hoping very much so that he gets called up. This is probably abnormal, but a few E-3's speaking out against the Iraq War certainly does not prove that this is widespread, or even common. It might be, but I kind of doubt it being as the highest authority they could find on the subject was a 22 year old Lance Corporal.

 

[Diablos]

I’ve been walking through your streets
Where all you money’s earning
Where all your building's crying
And clueless neckties working
Revolving fake lawn houses
Housing all your fears
Desensitized by tv
Overbearing advertising
God of consumerism
And all your crooked pictures
Looking good, mirrorism
Filtering information
For the public eye
Designed for profiteering
Your neighboor, what a guy

Boom, boom, boom, boom
Every time you drop the bomb
You kill the God your child has born
Boom, boom, boom, boom

Modern globalization
Coupled with condemnations
Unnecessary death
Matador corporations
Puppeting your frustrations
With the blinded flag
Manufacturing consent
Is the name of the game
The bottom line is money
Nobody gives a FUCK

4000 hungry children die per hour
From starvation
While billions spent on bombs
Create death showers...

Boom, boom, boom, boom,
Every time you drop the bomb,
You kill the God your child has born.
Boom, boom, boom, boom
Boom/boom/boom/boom/boom/boom/boom

Why, why, why, why must we kill, kill, kill, kill, our own, own, own, own kind...

Boom, boom, boom, boom,
Every time you drop the bomb,
You kill the God your child has born.
Boom, boom, boom, boom
Boom/boom/boom/boom/boom/boom/boom/boom
Every time you drop the bomb!

I think that sums it all up quite nicely.

 

[Takuan]

Too bad none of these soldiers are higher in rank. They're all so young that in a lot of peoples' eyes their words won't carry much weight. I can see a lot of people downplaying their feelings with the excuse that they're young and easily discouraged, which is a shame.

 

[Dilbert]

The assertions made by some of the marines do not hold up to the facts, that's what I disagreed with it.

I'm sorry, but your "debunking" needs a debunking.

Are we any closer to catching Bin Laden? You quoted figures about the damage done to Al Qaeda, which does NOT address the soldier's point. There has been nothing stated publicly by ANYONE which provides evidence that Bin Laden's capture is any closer. Quite frankly, the reason that all those other statistics are paraded around is to provide a smokescreen over the fact that we've had NO luck capturing Bin Laden, and have no idea where he is other than a vague "somewhere in the mountains of Pakistan."

As for the soldier's comment regarding the lack of capability of the Iraqi forces, your argument was that U.S. soldiers had "said this nonsense about the Afghan forces and that was proven false." First, what evidence do you have to show that this was "proven false?" Second -- and more to the point -- you are assuming that the two situations are equivalent, which is not the case. Afghanistan is NOT Iraq -- you and the president can't seem to keep that straight.

The first soldier's comment, some despair about the idea of being in Iraq ad infinitum, you didn't even bother to debunk since you agree with him. Those soldiers were given the impression that they had a job to do...after which they could go home. Instead, it is becoming clear that a) the job cannot be finished and b) they often can't go home on the schedule they were originally promised.

Finally, many of the soldiers are simply expressing their own points of view, based on THEIR ACTUAL IRAQ EXPERIENCE...which, by the way, is more than you or President Bush can say. It offends me that you are writing off low-ranking soldiers' opinions as irrelevant, just because they don't have enough brass on their uniform to rate a press conference. Dismissing their very real concerns and viewpoints as "frustration" is pathetic.

As for military ties, relatives in the Navy and Army.

Are they in Iraq right now? If not, have they ever served in combat, and if so, in which engagements?

I have a close friend who is currently in Iraq supporting PSYOPS, and I get first-hand reports from him about the situation. His JOB is to gauge and try to shape the relationship with the Iraqi people, so pardon me for believing his point of view, rather than yours. The situation in Iraq is chaotic and dangerous, and the whitewashed optimism that Bush and cronies are trying to peddle is disingenuous and unethical.

 

[DarienA]

Jinx don't waste too much energy on Rip, Cooter, et al.... they simply will not accept anything regardless of what info you give them.

 

[Incognito]

i have 2 friends in iraq, and my uncle was called back in the army to be their regional anti-terrorism chief.

thankfully, he served his two years, left as a major, and as of september, back in the civillian world. he's a staunch republican, but he has strong, strong disagreements with the way bush has handled things.

my mother oftens warns me to not even bring up the subject when he's in town because it bothers him so much..

 

[Crag Dweller]

What was your mos Darien? Mine was 35E (army), repair for starlight scopes, mine detectors and infrared searchlights.

 

[DarienA]

What was your mos Darien? Mine was 35E (army), repair for starlight scopes, mine detectors and infrared searchlights.

31V, Unit-Level Communications Troubleshoot and Repair.

 

[skrew]

http://www.army.mil/references/UCMJ/ucmj2.html

888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS
Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.


933. ART. 133. CONDUCT UNBECOMING AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN
Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

934. ART. 134. GENERAL ARTICLE
Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.

The first 2 articles are for commisioned officers, the marines in question aren't even non-commisioned officers, they are just junior enlisted marines. They did not uses contemptuous words against the President or anybody important. Its not a crime under UCMJ for anyone to disagree with the presidents policy unless otherwise ordered by your chain of command. You cannot punish a soilder, sailor, marine or airman just because you dont agree with him. And even if his chain of command is that fucked up that they want to, he always has the right to ask for trial by his peers. You can't send a handful of soilders back to Iraq just because he spoke out against the war, you can't punish him because you disagree with him, and if they try to, there is more then enough legal protection for him to seek.

 

[Brannon]

Don't forget that in order for a LCpl or below to even talk to civilian reporters, they have to be given permission first. If anything negative comes of this, it will be on the heads of the brass, not E-3.

 

[Alcibiades]

uh, haven't soldiers been speaking out against Iraq since like a long time ago?

I can see it be news considering the election and John Kerry's criticism, but do the article give equal time to soldiers that support the action?

there aren't any scientific polls (although I think Zogby did one recently or someone did), but isn't it likely that more soldiers support Bush, even some who don't agree with the actions in Iraq?

Finding someone with certain opinions among a diverse and large group of people doesn't really impress me. I mean, heck, there were those two soldiers that decided to get married and convert to Islam, you'll find all sorts of minds and thought in the US military like you would in the regular civilian situation. It's the same thing with US veterans. The country seems pretty calm compared to what historians have painted of the Vietnam period, so I don't really see valid comparisons if we are talking scale of disaster. It is a quagmire, but are people suggesting it will get to the level of Vietnam? If Somalia is a 2 and Vietnam is a 10, I'd imagine placing Iraq somewhere around 4-5 in terms of military "disasters" (this is coming from someone who was against the war, BTW).

The key is finding overwhelming opinion on something, has there been any indication on whether soldiers support or don't support the war, as I'm sure it's more along the lines of 50/50, but that's just a guess...

 

[Kobun Heat]

It'd be just as easy, if not easier, to dig up servicemen who believe that America is doing the right thing, and who are proud to be in Iraq. I doubt liberal readers would, upon reading such a collection of quotes, feel much need to respond. So why is this supposedly something that conservative readers are obligated to attempt to explain away?

 

[Xenon]

So now that you have quotes that match your position, a soldiers opinion is more than just brainwashed American patriotism?

You people crack me up.

 

[fart]

this was a bad idea. i don't like arguing about politics. sorry

 

[Xenon]

could you try to think for at least like some, even infinitessimally small delta of time before you reply to something? jesus christ.

Care to elaborate or are your thoughts too great to be expressed be mere words.

 

[Che]

I’ve been walking through your streets
Where all you money’s earning
Where all your building's crying
And clueless neckties working
Revolving fake lawn houses
Housing all your fears
Desensitized by tv
Overbearing advertising
God of consumerism
And all your crooked pictures
Looking good, mirrorism
Filtering information
For the public eye
Designed for profiteering
Your neighboor, what a guy

Boom, boom, boom, boom
Every time you drop the bomb
You kill the God your child has born
Boom, boom, boom, boom

Modern globalization
Coupled with condemnations
Unnecessary death
Matador corporations
Puppeting your frustrations
With the blinded flag
Manufacturing consent
Is the name of the game
The bottom line is money
Nobody gives a FUCK

4000 hungry children die per hour
From starvation
While billions spent on bombs
Create death showers...

Boom, boom, boom, boom,
Every time you drop the bomb,
You kill the God your child has born.
Boom, boom, boom, boom
Boom/boom/boom/boom/boom/boom/boom

Why, why, why, why must we kill, kill, kill, kill, our own, own, own, own kind...

Boom, boom, boom, boom,
Every time you drop the bomb,
You kill the God your child has born.
Boom, boom, boom, boom
Boom/boom/boom/boom/boom/boom/boom/boom
Every time you drop the bomb!

I think that sums it all up quite nicely.

I totally agree. And btw great song, great lyrics, and great videoclip. The only problem is, that every time at the end of the videoclip I watch the Iraqi boy on the bicycle smiling I got weird feelings of hate and fury towards Bush, oil corporations, weapons dealers, and every freaking asshole who deserves to have the most painful death in human history.

 

[fart]

really, the bottom line is that people's lives are at stake, and that's where all the conflict comes from. it doesn't matter who agrees with whom. there are people in iraq suffering, and there are soldiers in iraq suffering, and so on and so on. a rejection of jingoism isn't necessarily politics, and i think the people who are reacting to the quotes are doing so out of humanistic tendencies.

 

[Hitokage]

Uh, fart, the operative word in his sentence was "now"... he was making a now/then contrast.

 

[fart]

but they're not necessarily doing it just because it suits them! ok ok, sorry..

look, instead of thinking about authority and counter-authority, try to think about the people involved?

 

[Xenon]

eh, sorry if my typing is not that great.

But I seem to recall some time ago someone posting that the troops support the war. GAFers were quick to point out that soldiers do little thinking for themselves because they are brainwashed. I find it a little hypocritical that they take credence in their words now just because it suites them.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

It'd be just as easy, if not easier, to dig up servicemen who believe that America is doing the right thing, and who are proud to be in Iraq. I doubt liberal readers would, upon reading such a collection of quotes, feel much need to respond. So why is this supposedly something that conservative readers are obligated to attempt to explain away?

The initial post didn't contain a lick of original content, nor did I see anyone asking conservative posters to explain them away... Ripclawe and Makura volunteered. I think it's a good thing to show to people who think that any kind of anti-war sentiment or talk of change isn't being supportive of the troops (like Mr. President), when the truth is that the troops are split on this just like we are.

 

[videogamer]

nm

 

[Triumph]

Well, all I'm going to say regarding the matter is that I work in an airport, a really busy one, and that all the soldiers I speak to who are going back to Iraq are very, very disillusioned about why they are there. Many of them are being kept there past their enlistment period and really resent that.

Oh, and the ones going BACK buy quite a few copies of these:

 

[KingV]

Too bad none of these soldiers are higher in rank. They're all so young that in a lot of peoples' eyes their words won't carry much weight. I can see a lot of people downplaying their feelings with the excuse that they're young and easily discouraged, which is a shame.

Not really a shame, the junior enlisted guys are not exactly privy to any sort of information. They probably aren't even told exactly what they're goal is in the mission they are participating in outside of what they are actually doing at that moment. I'm not extremely knowledgable on the ins and outs of Marine Corps Enlisted service, but on the blue side I know that making Seaman (Navy equivalent of Lance Corporal) happens within a year, for pretty much everybody unless you screw up. Some rates (equivalent to MOS) are likely a 3rd class Petty Officer (Corporal) within a year. At that level you are told very little, and likely have a highly incomplete picture of what's going on around you.

 

[DarienA]

...and Rip vanishes from another political thread....

 

[Kseutron]

How can you rely on our troops' feelings on the war? They're obviously going to have a biased view on it. The average citizen really doesn't know what's going on there. John "Lame Ass" Kerry needs to speak out against the war for his own political purposes. Bush is really the only one we can trust on this.

oh yeah, bush is so brave and so familiar with the feeling to have been sent to death not to protect your people, but for a fu**** lie

 

[Kseutron]

You know, stuff like this really makes me wonder if the neo-cons that forced this war down our throats have a conscience. Do they fully comprehend that innocent kids are being killed for their political views? Lying to the American people is one thing, every administration has done it.. but holy shit peoples lives are being radically changed forever because of these assholes. When I hear Bush or Cheney spout their shit about this war it makes me mad, when I hear this kind of stuff I become extremely sad.

Come'on ! They're doing this to protect u and ur close ones, how ungrateful ! Did you forget that Iraq is a super military power that has tons of WM...

hey wait (???)

 

[Keio]

I don't care if the soldiers comments don't reflect "the whole strategic situation" in Iraq: at least they show that some of the troops are just as unhappy about the emerging situation (the ISG showing that there are no WMD, 9/11 links vanishing to thin air) as some people in the US and pretty much all the people in Europe are.

Where else are you going to get Muslim troops.

Indonesia, Malaysia, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Egypt, Yemen and Morocco could easily spare thousands of troops each.

Then, when things would have calmed down some more, there could be a truly multinational peacekeeping force. Look at Afghanistan - they have people from Britain, Indonesia, New Zealand, Canada, Turkey, Finland...

Then you have this whole UN mandate, IRaqis hate the UN because of sanctions, cozying up to Saddam and living it up during the sanctions and they won't take kindly to the UN telling them anything.

Yes, and they just LOVE American soldiers patrolling around. I'm saying that a UN mandated operation would improve things, not make the quagmire that Iraq is instantly peaceful. The US are regarded as occupators (and they are), UN forces probably wouldn't be.

 

[Dilbert]

...and Rip vanishes from another political thread....

:lol:lol:lol