Afro Republican
Banned
They'll just get around it my making all Microtransaction games rated M so they can still sell the games, and parents don't care about that anyway., and gaming companies barely ask for an idea if you look above 14.
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US Senator to introduce bill to ban loot boxes and pay to win microtransaction
- Thread starter Caffeine
- Start date
Griffon
Member
Random trading card packs are predatory too. It preys just as much on bad compulsory behaviors. Should've been regulated long ago.
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Starlight Lotice
Member
Lootbox DLC is the answer so those who want lootboxes have to pay for the DLC. The DLC can also be rated for 18 year olds.
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I used to think this, but now I prefer these crooks to the ones in gaming.
Petrae
Member
Just direct the ESRB rating system to mandate that any game with microtransactions be rated AO. If the publishers want that MTX money so badly, they’ll find a way to get it sold— and maybe it will kill the stigma that retailers have with AO games to begin with.
The M rating doesn’t have enough teeth... and it can be argued that the ESRB system on the whole is rather useless, I guess. Either retailers don’t check ID or parents buy M-rated games for their kids and undermine the system anyway. There’s no real deterrent against kids playing M-rated games.
Maybe it’s time to call a bunch of these suits in front of Congress again and watch them sauirm like they did 25 years ago. I’d laugh watching them shift their collars and get all flush when a member of the Legislature starts berating them for taking advantage of children.
The M rating doesn’t have enough teeth... and it can be argued that the ESRB system on the whole is rather useless, I guess. Either retailers don’t check ID or parents buy M-rated games for their kids and undermine the system anyway. There’s no real deterrent against kids playing M-rated games.
Maybe it’s time to call a bunch of these suits in front of Congress again and watch them sauirm like they did 25 years ago. I’d laugh watching them shift their collars and get all flush when a member of the Legislature starts berating them for taking advantage of children.
somerset
Member
Like banning p-rn in Arizona, this is a non-starter in the USA - the land of Freedom, including certain business 'freedoms' like taking 3-year-old kids to see 'Hostel' in the cinema.
The real issue is the uncontrolled immoral corruption of Big Gaming. The gaming industry never grew up. The biggest owners have always been crooks. I have a lot of first hand experience. I'm not talking about game devs but the *money* men who've always exploited the game devs- like those racist rotten music publishers in America thru to the 1960s who treated their 'black' talent like slaves.
To a crook, Loot boxes and gambling aimed at kids makes perfect sense. Big Gaming is still the Wild West. But unlike the war on brothels, the business practices of Big Gaming largely win the approval of the major political forces operating in the USA today. After all Big Gaming is happy to be 'woke' and a willing part of the alt-left - and that's all that matters.
Outside the USA, and things look better- and *worse*. The non-US alt-left regimes are regulation mad. But close to regulation of business malpractice is plain old *censorship*. Censorship of the customer that is.
Now we know the moment big gov gets its fangs into Loot boxes, ordinary content in games follows. The next big 'atrocity' in the British sphere of influence (The UK, Australia and NZ) will be blamed on violent games and used as an excuse to *ban* all 'violent' games. The mechanisms are now in place- the anti-game propaganda relentless.
Whoever wins, we lose- isn't that the saying. Big gaming becoming scummier by the second, but any regulation of Big Gaming immediately brings in alt-left censorship of game content. Which is why America is big on self-regulation- begging corporations to regulate themselves because when the gov is forced to step in, worse things tend to happen.
But as I said, outside the USA, nothing can prevent the slide into total censorship. Yet ouside the USA, the alt-left *loves* gambling, especially the gambling that targets the least able to afford it or resist. For gambling erodes the moral strength of mainstream society- making it easier for the alt-left to manipulate.
The real issue is the uncontrolled immoral corruption of Big Gaming. The gaming industry never grew up. The biggest owners have always been crooks. I have a lot of first hand experience. I'm not talking about game devs but the *money* men who've always exploited the game devs- like those racist rotten music publishers in America thru to the 1960s who treated their 'black' talent like slaves.
To a crook, Loot boxes and gambling aimed at kids makes perfect sense. Big Gaming is still the Wild West. But unlike the war on brothels, the business practices of Big Gaming largely win the approval of the major political forces operating in the USA today. After all Big Gaming is happy to be 'woke' and a willing part of the alt-left - and that's all that matters.
Outside the USA, and things look better- and *worse*. The non-US alt-left regimes are regulation mad. But close to regulation of business malpractice is plain old *censorship*. Censorship of the customer that is.
Now we know the moment big gov gets its fangs into Loot boxes, ordinary content in games follows. The next big 'atrocity' in the British sphere of influence (The UK, Australia and NZ) will be blamed on violent games and used as an excuse to *ban* all 'violent' games. The mechanisms are now in place- the anti-game propaganda relentless.
Whoever wins, we lose- isn't that the saying. Big gaming becoming scummier by the second, but any regulation of Big Gaming immediately brings in alt-left censorship of game content. Which is why America is big on self-regulation- begging corporations to regulate themselves because when the gov is forced to step in, worse things tend to happen.
But as I said, outside the USA, nothing can prevent the slide into total censorship. Yet ouside the USA, the alt-left *loves* gambling, especially the gambling that targets the least able to afford it or resist. For gambling erodes the moral strength of mainstream society- making it easier for the alt-left to manipulate.
A.Romero
Member
Personally, I don't care about Lootboxes. I have played several games that are littered with them and never spent a dime nor felt I was missing something because of it. I don't care about cosmetic items nor buying shortcuts ( I rather leave the game incomplete). Gatcha games or mobile game don't interest me. The lootbox crisis and the mtx stuff came and I haven't felt it to be honest.
However, I do understand why this could be an issue with some people that simply cannot stop themselves from gambling. I'm addicted to nicotine so I understand what an addiction is.
That said, I'm not American but I'm pretty aware of the importance of the US market. If something like this passes it will impact western gaming. I don't like the government regulating this and specially I don't like them using the "will someone think of the kids!?" argument. I feel is a step back for the gaming industry. It's not a kid exclusive hobbie.
I think if publishers and platform holders get together, they could push the AO rating to consoles and include them there.
However, I do understand why this could be an issue with some people that simply cannot stop themselves from gambling. I'm addicted to nicotine so I understand what an addiction is.
That said, I'm not American but I'm pretty aware of the importance of the US market. If something like this passes it will impact western gaming. I don't like the government regulating this and specially I don't like them using the "will someone think of the kids!?" argument. I feel is a step back for the gaming industry. It's not a kid exclusive hobbie.
I think if publishers and platform holders get together, they could push the AO rating to consoles and include them there.
GAMETA
Banned
Then it's up to the parents to control... Government can't and shouldn't be responsible for your kids ethics, character and education.
01011001
Banned
that's what I'm worried about too.
BUT, can it be worse than what's going on now?
worst case scenario they do a bit too little to bring it under control...
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
US Gov't and various opportunists tried to get a grip on videogames by appealing to laws over "distasteful content".
Don't let them do it over "gambling".
I'm not saying the predatory practices aren't predatory, but it's almost like there is some kind of role in our society for someone who watches over children and prevents them from being suckered by corporations.
An outright band gives Senators and naysayers a lot more power than they should have. This type of monitoring got us the ESRB. This is why video game covers have all that ugly print on them. You already tell the consumer that this game includes X, Y, and Z content. They might as well just make another one for loot boxes. I feel like the driving force behind this neglects the existence of the ESRB already. Now they want to pull all the stops and outright ban video game developers from doing this in their games. You had the California case of Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association where they ruled that video games were protected by the 1st Amendment. You don't want the government to have complete control over everything just because you don't like something. I'd rather see people not buy the game and the developer has to suffer the financial loss than see an outright ban.
Jubenhimer
During the Facebook investigation, some of those questions made them look like they were living under a rock for 20 years. Yet these people run our governments? Its sad they don't educate themselves.
Baron Samedi
Member
I thought GAF was mostly right-oriented... guess I was wrong.
Kenpachii
Member
Just ban gambling in video games entirely done deal.
There is no way for your to know if a minor plays it or not. So better to just ban it all out.
The moment they try to push it out under a different name or different solution, it will still involve gambling and get pulled for court instantly.
There is absolute zero gain for a gamer to have lootboxes in a game. There is also absolute no need for them in games.
Gambling for kids can be extremely dangerous route to take. it can drag whole family's into the shitter with it. Absolute zero tolerance for it.
There is no way for your to know if a minor plays it or not. So better to just ban it all out.
The moment they try to push it out under a different name or different solution, it will still involve gambling and get pulled for court instantly.
There is absolute zero gain for a gamer to have lootboxes in a game. There is also absolute no need for them in games.
Gambling for kids can be extremely dangerous route to take. it can drag whole family's into the shitter with it. Absolute zero tolerance for it.
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brap
Banned
Great job forming your useless opinion on one thread. You'll be crying and whining soon enough. Weeweeera will take you back.
Afro Republican
Banned
Adults that gamble would prevent such a thing, gambling isn't against the law for adults, so a full ban can't legally work. Especially with the rating system.
Baron Samedi
Member
My opinion is useless, but not formed upon one thread, you can't deny in every thread here there's always a predisposition to reject left politics in favor of the opposite, so I was pointing out the irony of a thread where everyone is commenting against the oh so loved free market. As for the rest of your reply, I honestly don't understand what the hell you meant... unlike mine, your opinion is of the utmost importance, so maybe explain.
Dragon Lord
Member
Emotionally, it's hard for me not to feel automatically and immediately supportive of this. Banning micro-transactions sounds amazing. But the part of me that's cautious and probably rational agrees with you. Anytime restrictions are placed on content, I start to worry about losing freedoms. This should protect consumers, but over the long run, it could be the start of something that does the opposite.
Hari Seldon
Member
The industry brought this on themselves. They could have self regulated by requiring all loot box games to be rated M but they want that little kid money so now they are fucked.
angelic
Banned
Free market is one thing, predatory practices, 150$ packs of jewels aimed at kids, they're quite another. Laws already exist to stop underage gambling, it's about time gaming companies were held accountable.
SoulChamber
Member
Good. While they're at it, ban all DLC abuse, like Pre-Order DLC's, etc.
The only time DLC should be acceptable, is if they are added to games after their official release (for added/extra content, etc.), NOT before.
The only time DLC should be acceptable, is if they are added to games after their official release (for added/extra content, etc.), NOT before.
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Baron Samedi
Member
Free market implies that such predatory practices would be autoregulated by supply/demand law. As soon as you regulate businesses through policies, that's no longer capitalism nor free market.
nani17
are in a big trouble
GhostOfTsu
Banned
Awful news and it will backfire badly to anyone cheering some random US politician that never played a game in his life.
I barely notice lootboxes and I play all the big releases. When I get one I'm like "cool" and that's it. I'm not even sure how you can buy them.
I barely notice lootboxes and I play all the big releases. When I get one I'm like "cool" and that's it. I'm not even sure how you can buy them.
Petrae
Member
That’s the stuff dreams are made of— but it’ll never happen. Only the industry crashing hard, burning to the ground, and starting over would make that a reality... and the modern video game industry is too big to fail. (Unless platform holders go insane with $500+ consoles in Gen9, then there’s a chance.)
Endless Fluff
Banned
This has nothing to do with the free market, since gambling is already regulated. People want loot boxes etc. to be considered as gambling, so gambling laws apply.
Baron Samedi
Member
Yanks always gotta bring up politics.
I mean... is a thread about a bill, I would argue the thread was already political.
lukilladog
Member
Let´s see if the big game companies have been making enough left wing pandering with their diversity and stuff, because this is what they really care about, not blacks, women or latinos, it´s all about money.
nani17
are in a big trouble
True but the statement about right versus left bs is fucking annoying. You had to make a comment about the otherside "right-oriented" I'll never understand why Americans do this sort of thing. Treat their politics like us versus them.
Imo it should be about the topic at hand and that's microtransactions in minors games being banned. Who cares which side came up with the idea or is trying to enforce it in terms of left or right. I'm sure we can all agree microtransactions for kids games is wrong.
I hope Ireland passes the very same thing. Mobile phone and console games aimed to a younger audience should not have lootboxes.
Baron Samedi
Member
Fair enough. Also, if by American You mean North-American, I'm not, so...
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
Excellent!!! Suck that Overwatch motherfucker
Mista
Banned
Just Overwatch? We got plenty and I mean PLENTY of games that are waaaay worse than Overwatch
Codes 208
Member
“Blops4 won’t have p2w”
*adds p2w*
Mista
Banned
The first game in mind while writing the post. $5 for a fucking red dot sight...
strange headache
Banned
This is great news as. If that bill passes, it would deal a death blow to these predatory practices that are plaguing almost every game released nowadays. I've already written a lengthy topic about this a while ago, so I'm not going to repeat everything I said there. It is quite obvious by now that greedy publishers are able to self-regulate. They even tried to fight a similar bill that passed in Belgium. Regulation is in order and totally justified.
Caffeine
Gold Member
on top of that for a game that launched $60 explaining this to someone will leave them confused. disgusting practice.
- season pass
- grindable tiers/ monetary tier skip
- black market/cod points
- rng loot boxes
- balance breaking micro weapons
- battle passes
- seperate zombies micro (only earnable in zombies cant grind for mp shit / vice versa)
- character skins in blackout (earnable through play)
- egrigous duplicate swap out (also holy shit at the amount of duplicates per weapon/character. expanding the cosmetics into the thousands)
avalonzero
Member
That's going to be an ultra small group of games. Not many AO games anymore at least on console. M rated games can't fall into this as they are 17+ and 17 year olds are minors.
spandexmonkey
Banned
If they want to act like casinos then they'll just need to start catering to adult audiences. Splitting the audience between family friendly and adult versions of a game is something I'm totally in favor of.
Petrae
Member
Which is really too bad. I never saw myself rooting for governmental regulation years ago, but the video game industry has gone unchecked for far too long and has gotten away with far too much shit not to be slapped down a few pegs by something like this.
If there’s collateral damage as a result, that kinda sucks... but the industry really has brought this upon itself and now will have to fight (or pay politicians and lobbyists considerable amounts of cash) to keep things from getting ugly.
Mista
Banned
A pathetic practice taken to the max ffs..
bitbydeath
Member
Yes, ban it all.
DLC shouldn’t be offered in cosmetics.
Make that shit free or bundle it with proper large DLC packs that includes mandatory additional single player expansions.
DLC shouldn’t be offered in cosmetics.
Make that shit free or bundle it with proper large DLC packs that includes mandatory additional single player expansions.
TheKingKRoach
Member
Just noticed this shining example of modern day gaming journalism.
https://www.polygon.com/2019/6/1/18...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
NFL 2K5 is a testament to Sports games. Since then, sports games haven't innovated. So much for game journos and woke fucks shittalking crony capitalism, but then dickriding microtransactions and exclusives when it angers people just to own the gaymurs.
Can't believe gamejournos are defending publisher's and anticonsumer practices now, because they're getting payrolled by these big publishers. It's like the billions of Epic Games Store ads on the PC Gamer site.
https://www.polygon.com/2019/6/1/18...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
NFL 2K5 is a testament to Sports games. Since then, sports games haven't innovated. So much for game journos and woke fucks shittalking crony capitalism, but then dickriding microtransactions and exclusives when it angers people just to own the gaymurs.
Can't believe gamejournos are defending publisher's and anticonsumer practices now, because they're getting payrolled by these big publishers. It's like the billions of Epic Games Store ads on the PC Gamer site.
Petrae
Member
It’s a concern-trolling argument that Owen’s making, and very few are buying it. If sports video games could be in trouble because microtransactions and lootboxes could be regulated, that’s too fucking bad.
Sports video games— my favorite kinds of games, honestly— have been poisoned by this microtransaction bullshit. Stupid trading cards and associated modes taking precedence over improvements in (formerly) traditional gameplay modes. Take-Two introducing pay-to-win mechanics in its NBA and WWE games by forcing players to either sink hundreds upon hundreds of hours into a game or pay to avoid such a brutal and unnecessary grind.
It’s fucking gross. Pathetic, even. FIFA, Madden, and NBA 2K sell millions upon millions of units every year and don’t need greedy-ass MTX, except to line the pockets of publisher execs and shareholders.
Licenses are too expensive? Fine. Don’t license leagues, then. They’ll come crawling back when the easy revenue they were making suddenly goes POOF. Part of this problem is on mental midgets working for publishers who are apparently shit negotiators.
I don’t buy the cries of poor from publishers for one fucking nanosecond, nor do I believe that publishers like EA or Take-Two would walk away from their most lucrative money-makers because they might make a little less money after regulation or leagues telling publishers that they don’t want to be associated with the stigma of selling gambling to kids.
Meowzers
Member
So right about other game modes taking a backseat over a friggin' card game. I play a lot of Fifa and notice things in career mode with Fifa 19 that haven't even changed since Fifa 12.
Absolutely shocking how much money they make from lootboxes and still ship the game with barely any changes to its other modes and yet it still costs £50-60 every year.
If this bill is not passed then surely a subscription service or separating Ultimate Team from the rest of Fifa and be able to download it to play and then release Fifa without it.
Sales would still be good I think as some Ultimate Team players do play other modes. Something needs to change.
Tupinambis_WOT
Member
I have absolutely no faith that federal politicians, who know nothing about videogames, will actually write a well crafted, well thought out bill about lootboxes and shit. That said, I can't really get upset with the government over this, since this is the direct result of the ESA and the games industry in general failing to demonstrate any kind of meaningful self restraint. I'm sure federal legislation will be stupid... but will it necessarily be worse than what we have now? Or what we may have in the future as the overton window keeps shifting to the point where the shit in Battlefront 2 might be considered acceptable? Or should we just let the feds cut it off now and not let it get to that point? Consequences be damned.
Eteric Rice
Member
People shit on government regulation all the time, government regulation itself isn't a bad thing, it's how well thought out it is. Unfortunately our government these days doesn't hire the brightest people. If they could get some people in place that know what they're doing on the matter I imagine they could come up with well thought out regulations that kill off loot boxes, but maybe leave room for skins and stuff.
Also, Jesus Christ at Polygon for being a bunch of industry shills. It's not like sports games existed without loot boxes before, right?
Oh wait...
Also, Jesus Christ at Polygon for being a bunch of industry shills. It's not like sports games existed without loot boxes before, right?
Oh wait...
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TheKingKRoach
Member
Government regulation only really works with business practices that everyone can agree on being predatory. Still absolutely crazy how corporations like Disney, etc, can get away with literal monopolies and not even get a slap on the wrist. Same for Apple and their insane policies.
TLDR, Government regulation is necessary to maintain a truly free market, but nothing is done nowadays to keep the free market from being optimal. Government regulation only exists when they want to tax people to death, but CEOs can get away with murder.