USA GAF.. Explain please

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Aselith said:
Might want to read the OP, champ.
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I did? I missed the bit where he slipped in (euro), but my point still stands. I'm just tired of being left out I guess :p

Mammoth Jones said:
1. No shit.
2. No shit.
3. No shit.

But people in the US generally being opposed to blackface portrayals is NOT a problem or an issue. But I mean, if people want to have a dialogue about it, I definitely welcome it. But I can't stand people that get pissy that certain people are being offended by blackface are just a bunch of mamby pamby whiners and then they have NO idea about the history of blackface in the US that made it offensive in the first place. Then back-peddle and say "Uh....so....so what?"
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If its really "no shit" then why does everyone in the thread seem to have trouble processing this?

If people don't know the history then is it really their fault for not understanding? I'm not trying to excuse the behaviour of people picking a fight with the US for being "oversensitive" or what not, but from my perspective having not grown up in the same environment as you US guys I found it hard to understand why any kind of facial make up might be offensive even after I was told about minstrel shows. I understood why Americans would be offended, but I kinda had trouble being offended myself. Not that that excuses anyone. That said, if someone says they find it offensive there's no way I'm going to tell them to not be offended. The zwarte pete issue is more complicated because it is a stereotype, but its also outside our cultural understandings - its foreign. Just like the idea of minstrel shows were to me. Would rather not go into that though.

If the OP is so open and understanding why is he jumping down the throats of Americans about their societal norms? Way to pick a fight..
 
The U.S. might be overly sensitive with race issues, but it's far better than Europeans, hilariously, acting like racism doesn't exist over there.
 
shanshan310 said:
That was a 30 year old skit trying to make a come back to a nostalgic audience. Didn't go over so well here either. The show got re-cancelled. Still, I guess your point kinda stands.


Also that link doesn't work properly.
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Sorry, it's a mobile link, can't really fix it now.

The point is. In the US that wouldn't have been cool 30 years ago, and it never would have even been entertained as something suitable for performing to even the producers let alone for air.
 
I prefer southern racism to northern. In the south usually they just give you the stink eye and project an aura that says "we don't take kindly to coloreds around here." In my experience northern racism is more apt to be in your face.
 
The Faceless Master said:
real talk: Boston is worse than the south.

Staten island too...
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New Yorkers conveniently dismiss those two places for a reason. I'm joking, somewhat.

Anyways, in the scope of this conversation, while there's obviously racism and bigotry everywhere, there's a reason why I'm a big fan of overexposure for the subject as prevalent in the US and German cultures for example. The"politically correct" speech that are often vilified are the very thing that keeps the subject on top of mind in the public dialogue, which serves as a constant reminder of some of these worst aspects of our collective perception and bias. It's foolish to think that if people don't talk about it, that it all won't exist. Talks of bigotry didn't precede the act.

On the subject of that kid; he didn't seem to have meant any insult by the blackface/black makeup that he wore; I certainly think that condemning him is a poorly thought move lacking context. And yet the whole incident is an opportunity to educate him and others in our newer generation why such a practically innocent act actually has great capacity for harm in the context of our history and culture.

These conversations about bias and bigotry aren't strange, and they're not excessive and they're not pointless. They're important for the very fact that some of you fools forgot that bigotry is there.
 
edornob said:
Had to watch it on Youtube to believe it myself
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Hahahahaa, "I have gypsy friends."


Racism in the U.S. is largely a cultural thing today. There's a "white" culture and a "black" culture. Unfortunately, "black" culture is actually just some kind of back-lash against society that promotes some really negative attitudes and lifestyles. The fact that this culture has been determined as how "real" black people should act has been pretty harmful. If a white person is wearing baggy clothes, speaking poorly, and using drugs- both white and black people will be more likely to identify him as part of "black" culture. This is kind of where we stand now, and I'd venture to say that it's a lot further along than where Europe is. I'd also agree that the Southern United States is, ironically, probably one of the least racist places there are. The reason is simply because they experience these subtleties first hand. The next big step will be disassociating the color of someone's skin with how you've seen other people with that skin color act, and finally doing away with the notion that the color of your skin associates you with some group.

A person in the South may be more likely to sincerely say that they hate black people. That's because they've had strong experiences which have confused them into feeling that way.
A person in the North is less likely to say something like that, but they also haven't been tempted by experiencing situations that make it easy to start making wrongful assumptions.

At the same time,
A person in the South will be more likely to genuinely understand these culture differences and not assume something based on someone's color, but perhaps how they present themselves.
A person in the North will be more likely to actively try to befriend a person just because they're black and they think that makes them "cool" or something. They will probably assume that this person listens to a lot of rap music and expects to communicate using poor grammar, even if he is a medical doctor or something.


This is how I see it at least. There are definitely differences, but IMO the Southern U.S. is actually closer to the ideal where skin color doesn't mean anything. I don't think you would be able to find people in the United States throwing bananas at a black person today.
 
Slayven said:
I prefer southern racism to northern. In the south usually they just give you the stink eye and project an aura that says "we don't take kindly to coloreds around here." In my experience northern racism is more apt to be in your face.
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Except Southern Racism can end with you dying via pick up truck. Ill take my Northern Racism thank you.
 
The main problem is when one country/culture tries to impose their racial sensitivities to another.

Before people starts flaming me, I'm not trying to justify clear racist behavior, behavior intended to hurt and dehumanize. But stuff like this:

IrrelevantNotch said:
sinterklaas1.jpg


Why can't Americans just not be offended like my country and its 99% white population?
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Was that done with bad faith? Blackface (or in this case, black makeup) doesn't share the same cultural past as the USA.

Another example of this is the Memin controversy.
 
You know what annoys me? When Euro GAF keeps making threads/posts not understanding racism in the US still existing, acting like it doesn't happen there, when it happens shockingly often in soccer (football)....
 
Lonely1 said:
The main problem is when one country/culture tries to impose their racial sensitivities to another.

Before people starts flaming me, I'm not trying to justify clear racist behavior, behavior intended to hurt and dehumanize. But stuff like this:
sinterklaas1.jpg
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So what's the story behind him?

Doesn't he steal the children who have been bad on Christmas? Also, why are his lips painted so ridiculously red?

Why do some images of him make him look sub-human?

eypWH.jpg



More on the totally not racist Zwarte Piet:
Until the second half of the 20th century, Saint Nicholas' helper was not too bright, in line with the old colonial traditions. Once immigration started from the former colonised countries Zwarte Piet became a much more respected assistant of Saint Nicholas, who is often a bit inattentive, but playfull.
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StateofMind said:
Hahahahaa, "I have gypsy friends."


Racism in the U.S. is largely a cultural thing today. There's a "white" culture and a "black" culture. Unfortunately, "black" culture is actually just some kind of back-lash against society that promotes some really negative attitudes and lifestyles. The fact that this culture has been determined as how "real" black people should act has been pretty harmful. If a white person is wearing baggy clothes, speaking poorly, and using drugs- both white and black people will be more likely to identify him as part of "black" culture. This is kind of where we stand now, and I'd venture to say that it's a lot further along than where Europe is. I'd also agree that the Southern United States is, ironically, probably one of the least racist places there are. The reason is simply because they experience these subtleties first hand. The next big step will be disassociating the color of someone's skin with how you've seen other people with that skin color act, and finally doing away with the notion that the color of your skin associates you with some group.

A person in the South may be more likely to sincerely say that they hate black people. That's because they've had strong experiences which have confused them into feeling that way.
A person in the North is less likely to say something like that, but they also haven't been tempted by experiencing situations that make it easy to start making wrongful assumptions.

At the same time,
A person in the South will be more likely to genuinely understand these culture differences and not assume something based on someone's color, but perhaps how they present themselves.
A person in the North will be more likely to actively try to befriend a person just because they're black and they think that makes them "cool" or something. They will probably assume that this person listens to a lot of rap music and expects to communicate using poor grammar, even if he is a medical doctor or something.


This is how I see it at least. There are definitely differences, but IMO the Southern U.S. is actually closer to the ideal where skin color doesn't mean anything. I don't think you would be able to find people in the United States throwing bananas at a black person today.
Click to expand...
Based on my experiences of living in along the east coast of the US:

I feel that the racism in the north is different than the racism in the south. People in the north are better at hiding their beliefs and prejudices than the people from the south. The people in the north realize that what they are doing is taboo and yet will still do it. Most incidents appear to come out of left field. Behind quiet company, they openly talk about their racist feelings.

Coincidentally, there are many more people in the south that will prejudge you right off the bat based on your skin color. The people in the south will offer you less opportunities, will be more abrasive with their treatment of you, and you don't have to worry about being stabbed in the back because they will simply stab you in the front of your chest. The the 'behind closed doors' racism that is present in the north is also available, but made worse due to the lack of cultural restraints imposed by the rest of the southern society.

If anything, the south is simpler because you know, in most cases, when a person doesn't like you from the very first meeting. This doesn't make it any better than the north, nor does it lessen the impact that it can have on someone emotionally.

None of this really applies to the current generation. On the whole, they seem to offer greater opportunities and be more accepting of others.


Another odd note that I've experienced is that the further north and the further away from cities you travel, the more the behaviors and attitudes shift toward those of the south.
 
Yes there are dumb hicks everywhere. The difference is those from the north often think that the entire south is drag you behind the pickup truck and burn down black churches racist. That does exist but the majority of it is black people and white people in equal amounts going to school together, working together, living in the same communities and neighborhoods. That was my experience growing up here so it's very strange to see this belief still held by the majority of Americans, and indeed those in this thread.
 
ElectricBlue187 said:
The south is probably less racist on average than any other part of the country. You never hear the kind of racist talk I've heard from people from NY state and Wisconsin. In general I think people who don't have contact with other races are usually the most racist
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I'm from North Carolina, and I've heard the occasional racist comments (more in my hometown). I was in New York City this weekend and waiting on the Subway around 1 AM, and a group of kids were coming down the stairs and yelling at a chinese man that they were going kill him and push him on to the rails, specifically calling him 'Chinese man' or something like that. The chinese man 5 minutes later walked past the kids a few inches from the platform to prove a point that they weren't gonna do shit, and they didn't, thank god.

Never seen anything that fucking disrespectful and racist in the south so far. Again, anecdotal, but that's what I saw.
 
soepje said:
Two days ago there was this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=474649.
Which is just cute and innocent imho.
Yet, a whole lot of people respond to it as: His parents are ignorant! They should know better! They shouldn´t have even thought of putting some paint on their kids face.'

I found that quite strange.. It´s so clear that the kid, nor his parents where doing it out of dispise. But people seem to think that other people might get offended.. or something..

These sort of opinions keep showing up, and i (euro) just don´t get it tbh. Why is this still such a hot and touchy subject there? We are all the same we start and live our lives, we do good, we do bad, color has nothing to do with it.... weird americano´s..

But then... Today i was watching some documentary (alright, it was Miami ink), and some woman there was mentioning that there was actually a White Prom and a Black Prom at the same high school.

So that just makes me wonder how big the black-white gap in the USA still is.
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Blackface in the US is the equivalent of gorilla noises at a soccer match in Europe.
 
StateofMind is a straight up trip. I won't even quote, just go back and read that first paragraph. What I previously felt was passive aggressiveness, I realize, is something else entirely.
 
ElectricBlue187 said:
The south is probably less racist on average than any other part of the country. You never hear the kind of racist talk I've heard from people from NY state and Wisconsin. In general I think people who don't have contact with other races are usually the most racist
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Depends on the person I guess, but I've personally faced more racist living in the South than I have the rest of the US and other countries really.
 
akira28 said:
It doesn't say much though. They didn't really consider it racist in 1920's North America either. I know there is racism against natives and diasporic Africans though.
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Well the stamps were issue in 2005 and even sold in some Walmart back in 2008.
 
StateofMind said:
Hahahahaa, "I have gypsy friends."


Racism in the U.S. is largely a cultural thing today. There's a "white" culture and a "black" culture. Unfortunately, "black" culture is actually just some kind of back-lash against society that promotes some really negative attitudes and lifestyles. The fact that this culture has been determined as how "real" black people should act has been pretty harmful. If a white person is wearing baggy clothes, speaking poorly, and using drugs- both white and black people will be more likely to identify him as part of "black" culture. This is kind of where we stand now, and I'd venture to say that it's a lot further along than where Europe is. I'd also agree that the Southern United States is, ironically, probably one of the least racist places there are. The reason is simply because they experience these subtleties first hand. The next big step will be disassociating the color of someone's skin with how you've seen other people with that skin color act, and finally doing away with the notion that the color of your skin associates you with some group.

A person in the South may be more likely to sincerely say that they hate black people. That's because they've had strong experiences which have confused them into feeling that way.
A person in the North is less likely to say something like that, but they also haven't been tempted by experiencing situations that make it easy to start making wrongful assumptions.

At the same time,
A person in the South will be more likely to genuinely understand these culture differences and not assume something based on someone's color, but perhaps how they present themselves.
A person in the North will be more likely to actively try to befriend a person just because they're black and they think that makes them "cool" or something. They will probably assume that this person listens to a lot of rap music and expects to communicate using poor grammar, even if he is a medical doctor or something.


This is how I see it at least. There are definitely differences, but IMO the Southern U.S. is actually closer to the ideal where skin color doesn't mean anything. I don't think you would be able to find people in the United States throwing bananas at a black person today.
Click to expand...
That's a really tough sell for me. Especially when a sizable segment of GOP voters there are so down on ideas like interracial marriage without even knowing the people involved.

Or maybe this is a subtle troll.
 
Racism is everywhere bro. It's dumb to debate what country is more racist than another but I've been all around Europe and got family in Italy and Greece and France and I can assure you they're as racist there as they are in the states (which I've also been to many times having lived just across the border in Toronto all my life).
 
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