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[Suikoguy]

I was chatting with a friend about the DS and It dawned on me (abit a little late).
I'm a little concerned about the second screen. If what i've read is correct, 3D can only be done on 1 Screen. So what can be done in 2d (or crappy 3d) on a second screen?

There is the obvious:
Menus
Keyboards
Maps

But what else?
There were some tech demos that made use outta it, but they were 2d examples
Will it be doomed for gimicky use beaucse of lack of 2 3D Screens?

This is not really a nintendo bash, rather a concern. Perhaps there are things that can be done that i'm not thinking of?

 

[Insertia]

Yeah, I read somewhere that 3d visuals could only be used on one screen at a time.
Can someone confirm this?

If true: lame

I would have rather had one large touch screen.

 

[neptunes]

one screen displayw Arm 9 Like graphics.

and the other has to display the remaining Arm 7 (GBA hardware).

Though Arm 7 can do 3d can it not?

 

[Fallopian Tube]

Pac-man demo had 3d on both screens.

 

[neptunes]

yeah both should be able to do 3d, it's just that one screen will have crappy ARM 7 3d.

 

[Seth C]

They don't exist, my friend. It's 100% gimmick!

 

[StrikerObi]

You don't have to use one processor for each screen. It is possible to use both processors in tandem and output on both screens.

 

[Ranger X]

As for some other question of yours, there is not much other uses for the second screen than what you mentionned.
The DS is full of options but not necessarily well implemented and some will mostly not be supported --> the Wi-Fi option and mic.

 

[Miburou]

3D or not, the question for me is what practical, innovative use is there for the 2nd screen and the touchscreen ability? Maybe I haven't looked hard enough, but what I saw seemed either gimmicky, or something that could be done with one screen.

 

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

They don't exist, my friend. It's 100% gimmick!

Yeah, I agree. I love Nintendo, and I'll buy a DS, but come on. Nintendo wanted something to counter PSP, they didn't want to cannibalize their GBA success by releasing a new Game Boy too soon, so they throw out this "innovative" stopgap.

 

[Suikoguy]

You don't have to use one processor for each screen. It is possible to use both processors in tandem and output on both screens.

If thats true, there may be some hope

 

[imastalker co.]

Metroid Hunters had equal quality 3D being displayed on both screens, but it was a cinema of the camera rotating around Samus. so chances are that's why.

it's possible to display 3D on both screens, but my guess is that it's only possible when used to make one larger picture.

 

[aoi tsuki]

Yeah, I agree. I love Nintendo, and I'll buy a DS, but come on. Nintendo wanted something to counter PSP, they didn't want to cannibalize their GBA success by releasing a new Game Boy too soon, so they throw out this "innovative" stopgap.

Completely possible but we'll see. Frankly, i'm more excited about DS than PSP because Nintendo's trying to do something different versus a logical progression (more power) as we see with the PSP. And DS's GBA compatibility means it already has a library of great games to play on it. i just hope they don't drag their feet with this "innovation" like they did with the GBA and connectivity, and i don't just mean releasing a WiFi-compatible Pokemon.

 

[StrikerObi]

Metroid Hunters had equal quality 3D being displayed on both screens, but it was a cinema of the camera rotating around Samus. so chances are that's why.

it's possible to display 3D on both screens, but my guess is that it's only possible when used to make one larger picture.

WRONG. Read the thread. It's already been mentioned that Pac-n-Roll used 3D on both screens.

 

[DrLazy]

There is stuff 2 screens could be used for. If you don't like menu's and radars (which are usually not used in Game Boy games because there isn't enough space) there's options like 2 different perspectives of the same action.

Example: Spyhunter DS, you have the top screen to drive and the camera zoomed in on the car while the other screen is the rear view used for oil slick and such.

Example: A co-op wireless game, lets say Halo DS, Top screen is your screen, the bottom screen is a slightly 3rd person perspective of your partner. If you need to communicate, tap a menu option (pausing the game), and write a quick message with the stylus.

Example: MGS DS. First of all there could be cool cinematics, 24 style -good show btw- where screens are showing different things going on at the same time. Then in game the bottom screen is you radar, but when you get spotted, it switches to a security camera/guard view of the people searching for you. Meanwhile you are still in control up top.

Example: Baseball DS. Top screen is the pitcher, bottom screen is the batter. If the pitcher presses a button, bottom screen flashes to the bases and he gan throw over to first. Bottom screen shows the batter running after getting a hit, the top screen shows the fielding. No its not revolutionary, but its kinda cool. Foot ball would be similar. Bottom screen shows the quarterback, top screen is zoomed out view. Draw up custom plays with the stylus.

I think it could be cool. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Miburou]

Can one actually concentrate on two screens at the same time?

 

[BuddyC]

from Nintendo's E3 press junket

Nintendo DS also will include two processors, 3-D capabilities on both screens, 16-channel sound and a rechargeable battery that features a low-energy-consumption design.

further on in the kit...

Each 3-inch screen can reproduce a true 3-D view and is backlit to assure comfortable play in any lighting condition.

...wow, i just realized i typed that all up for nothing.

 

[BobbyRobby]

I just got done playing Four Swords for hours. I'll be happy to have more Nintendo "gimmicks".

 

[DrLazy]

Can one actually concentrate on two screens at the same time?

Well I assume that will be the challenge in a lot of the games. Most games will probably have one main screen and a secondary screen that you glance at occasionally like the examples I gave.

 

[Yossarian]

Can one actually concentrate on two screens at the same time?

I think it'll prolly be like driving a car. You got 4 views you have to look at to navigate the road successfully, but the mind is able to take in a lot of the information from the various side and rear view mirrors without turning attention from the road itself.

 

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

Can one actually concentrate on two screens at the same time?

That would be hard to do. Your eyes will focus on the action on the main screen, and any information that is detailed in any way (beyond just looking to see how much energy you have, where you are on the race track, etc.) will force you to stop actually playing the game for a few seconds. You know, there's nothing that a second screen can do that a pause button can't do just as well.

 

[GDGF]

I'd just like to add that the Ninetendo DS has inspired me to take up a career in game development. I've recently transfered to ITT Tech to take their Bachelors degree in game development, and well, this is one of those inspirational situations where games trancend play and become life. Gotta give thanks where thanks are due.

 

[jiggle]

Can one actually concentrate on two screens at the same time?

Of course!

 

[Rlan]

The Double screen would be fantastic for a Desert Strike Resurrection. Before you were continually going backwards and forewards between the normal and pause screen to see your fuel level, your weaponry amount, where the MIAs are etc. With the Double screen, it should allow you to do everything on the fly, which would be nice.

 

[Ranger X]

I think it'll prolly be like driving a car. You got 4 views you have to look at to navigate the road successfully, but the mind is able to take in a lot of the information from the various side and rear view mirrors without turning attention from the road itself.

This example does not work at all. You don't look into your mirror if something important is going on in front of your car. You look in the mirror when you CAN.
Playing with the DS with action going on in one screen, you won't be really looking at the other screen except if you pause or if there's not much going on.

 

[Kuramu]

perhaps forcing you to deal with 2 screens would be part of the fun. you know, learning new mental skills. i mean, look at all the stuff we have to concentrate on now. my dad can't keep up... he never got past the Pac-Man level of game. hell, even pac-man has it to a degree. you can run around through the maze, hoping no ghosts come near, or you can keep mental track of yourself and all the ghosts when planning your next few turns. while playing Zanac my brain would periodically go into hyper mode when there were 400 bullets flying around the screen in different directions and i had to somehow navigate through it all. I know my dad can't do that.

when i started playing GoldenEye, i used the 2 controller method GoodHead i think. 1 stick for feet, 1 for head. at first i was all over the place, staring at the floor half the time. but eventually my brain learned to coordinate the 2. learning that new skill was not just fun for me, but now that controllers have 2 sticks built in, it became a necessary skill for future games.

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

I had an idea for a two-player game that would use both screens: did anyone ever play war in school? Not cards, but with a piece of paper. It was kind of like Battleship but on paper.

You take the paper and fold it in half. In the bottom half of the paper you'd draw your armies, tanks, airplanes, bases, everything. When you were done, you'd draw a dark circle on the top of the paper, fold the page down, and color that dot in. If you hit one of the opposing teams things, it was destroyed. You could do this on the DS easily using something almost just like that Pictochat.

Hell, Battleship would also be great for this. or even a Battleship/Advance Wars hybrid.

 

[Nerevar]

there are no uses. That's what happens when you get a knee-jerk-reaction video game console out there.

 

[GDGF]

That's what happens when you get a knee-jerk-reaction video game console out there.

This thread isn't about the PSP (zing!). We can make another one for that

I actually quite like that 'War' idea. Pretty damn nice.

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

I actually quite like that 'War' idea. Pretty damn nice.

thanks. I'm think I'm going to go and teach my little brother how to play...I haven't played in almost 15 years.

another idea would be the old game of pencil fighting: use the microphone to gauge the sharpness of a rap on the unit with the stylus (used like in a pencil fight) and it would determine how hard you hit your opponents pencil from the volume level. kind of like the mini game from Wario Ware where you sliced the tree.

EDIT: doh!

 

[akascream]

I'm not nearly as interested in the second screen as I am in the touchscreen. They should just drop DS and put out GBA2 with some umph and a touchscreen.

 

[Mr. Lemming]

There was a game on an old issue of Softdisk on the Apple II that was called Double Trouble or something along those lines... the screen was split into two portions and you controlled both games at the same time with the same controls. Sort of like The Adventures of Cookie and Cream except like if you would move the ship on the left, the breakout paddle on the right would move in the same direction. It would be neat to see something along those lines nowadays.

 

[akascream]

Though, if anything, you could output your 3D world on the top screen and leave the touchscreen blank. That way you wouldn't obscure your view with your hand/stylus, but could still make use of that method of control.

 

[Nerevar]

This thread isn't about the PSP (zing!). We can make another one for that

I actually quite like that 'War' idea. Pretty damn nice.

at least one person on the thread actually got the joke ... I think you need to keep up with the video game news Bune Duggy.

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

I think I do as well...though I could use a or two.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Something I thought would be cool is a psychic game. Where you have gameplay on the bottom screen and then as you do stuff on that screen all the sudden you'll have psychic visions on the top screen outta nowhere just like real psychic's do. It'd be hard to concentrate, but how do you think a real psychic feels when they're having a vision? They're seeing consciously the world they live in while invisioning in thier minds something else...two screens would be perfect to convey that "sixth sense" in a game.

 

[Scalemail Ted]

I find the most impressive use of the NDS' bottom touchscreen: to be as a customizable control scheme that can be 'taylor made' for any game. The exciting thing that I await, is the idea that games no longer HAVE to be designed/limited around a particular button layout on a controller, limiting functions to whatever buttons are available on the unit. Now the entire second screen can be dedicated buttons, dials, guages, inputs that are specialized just for the game...plus these control schemes can alter themselves as the game progresses so that they can update new features as you need them.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I see the two screens approach as similar to how many consoles have different types of RAM. Take GameCube; it's got 24 MB of fast but expensive memory, and 16 MB of slow but cheap memory. Likewise the DS will usually use one screen for the most important stuff, while using the second screen for less important (and computationally expensive) things.

Also certainly cheaper than having one 4" touch screen that's expected to do 3D at something like 384x240.

 

[Ranger X]

Though, if anything, you could output your 3D world on the top screen and leave the touchscreen blank. That way you wouldn't obscure your view with your hand/stylus, but could still make use of that method of control.

Actually Nintendo thinks it's smarter than that: They want to sell you their "test" console before and after that they will sell you a full fledged GBA2 in late 2006 or 2007.
That way they make more money. Do you really think they FORGET to put a light before or under the screen of the GBA and that some lithium battery wasn't cheap enough by that time? I hope you don't believe any stupid reason that ever came out. This shit was all on purpose.


EDIT: this post is not targeted at you Aka, i'm just shaking general thoughs a bit.

 

[neptunes]

You don't have to use one processor for each screen. It is possible to use both processors in tandem and output on both screens.

SO have on processor ARM9 run 3d for both screens?

that would mean that extensive work would be put on that one processor no?(correct me if I'm wrong)

when devs could just divide the work among the 2.

ARM-9 CPU running at 67Mhz - 120,000 plys/sec (Good 3d - Main action)
ARM-7 CPU running at 33Mhz(Shitty 3d-mostly used for 2d)

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Do you really think they FORGET to put a light before or under the screen of the GBA and that some lithium battery wasn't cheap enough by that time? I hope you don't believe any stupid reason that ever came out. This shit was all on purpose.

*shrug* They're still the only ones to provide an affordable lit portable with decent battery life, so hey, not like anyone else was doing anything more for the consumer.

Can one actually concentrate on two screens at the same time?

Concentrate fully? No. But I'm well used to playing split-screen games and paying slight attention to 3 other screens.

 

[Tenguman]

Actually a couple of the best uses I've seen came from Miyamoto tech demos. Falling-Baby Mario and the Submarine game.

 

[neptunes]

yeah the submarine game looks fun.

 

[AniHawk]

I think I either read this in EGM, GamePro or Game Informer (one of those free mag subscriptions ), but someone had the idea for another Chrono game where you control two parties: One in the past, one in the present/future. What one party does in the past automatically affects what happens to the present/future. Thought it was a cool idea. Would be cooler to see that realized as a multiplayer game.

 

[TekunoRobby]

God I love these ideas, please keep them coming.

It's imperative that developers both listen and implement these ideas in all of their DS games. The DS will live or die depending on how creative developers are in the use of both screens. If the public realizes that YES this is a step forward in game design and not just a gimmick then creativity will not just be suggested but forced upon those who wish to work on the DS.

 

[Redbeard]

There was a game on an old issue of Softdisk on the Apple II that was called Double Trouble or something along those lines... the screen was split into two portions and you controlled both games at the same time with the same controls. Sort of like The Adventures of Cookie and Cream except like if you would move the ship on the left, the breakout paddle on the right would move in the same direction. It would be neat to see something along those lines nowadays.

I like the idea of controlling one thing but having different effects on each screen.

I had thought about a game where you play a character who exists in two worlds simultaneously (spirit/material), each screen displaying one of the worlds. Move around in one world, you do the same in the other; swing a sword in the real world and you also swing it in the spirit world, etc... Some enemies would only appear in one world, so you'd have to be careful not to kill NPCs in the real world as you're running around swinging your sword at immaterial enemies. I could imagine various puzzles that revolved around this dual world mechanic, mabye you could 'see' NPC's souls and know if they're evil or good, etc... you get the idea.

 

[Mock]

My main concerns for a handheld these days is battery life, price and strategy titles. Nintendo seems pretty good at getting all three. DS even has the potential for RTS games with the touch screen and stylus, so I'm waaaay more interested in that than the PSP. The only motive I'd have for getting PSP at this point is Makai Wars from Nippon Ichi, but know if that will ever see US release.

But to be really honest, I don't think Nintendo or Sony have shown enough to deserve any of the hype at this point. Nintendo has tech demos DS and so was piping video into the PSP. Nothing was shown in the way of real, playable games.

Regardless, I'm leaning toward the DS because its gaming-only, not full of shit I won't use like PSP will be. Really, I'm not buying UMD movies on it or listening to MP3s on those gimped memory sticks. That's what DVD players and iPods are for. I'm sure it may appeal to the guy who wants to feel like a king in his trailer park, but for those that already have those luxuries, its pretty pointless.

 

[Ranger X]

*shrug* They're still the only ones to provide an affordable lit portable with decent battery life, so hey, not like anyone else was doing anything more for the consumer.

Actually we could be sure about that if there was some sort of competition out there...

 

[Mejilan]

Actually we could be sure about that if there was some sort of competition out there...

Uh... what exactly are you trying to say?

 

[neptunes]

he said that in response to joshua's remark about being the only gaming handheld with good batter life and a cheap price.

but the GBA has beem the only handheld gaming system for quite a while now.

If there was actual competition to the GBA maybe we could have seen the best out of nintendo.