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[Amory]

But it could just be a coincidence that this particular incidence was in fact not racially motivated in any way! We can't be sure!

And then it will happen again, and people will continue to say it's all just a coincidence and fail to recognize the clear underlying pattern. And even if there are the few occasional outliers where it really is all just an unfortunate coincidence, it doesn't change a general trend.

This willful ignorance seems to have had the side effect of stopping the right from doing anything to make their party palatable to the changing demographics, so I suppose if they'd like to keep pretending that the majority of people can't see the clear trends of what's going on and making the increasingly thin claim that it's all always just a coincidence, they can keep on digging that hole.

The school district says it has a policy of no facial hair on male students. The superintendent said Jones and his family were reminded of the rule three times, including graduation night, along with 13 other graduates. They were told if they didn't go in the bathroom to shave, they couldn't participate with the class. Jones was the only one who refused, because he said that rule was never enforced before.

14 people were told to shave if they wanted to walk.
13 of them decided to shave.
1 didn't, and happened to be black.

He wasn't singled out. He singled himself out. And he's not necessarily wrong to have done that, but to chalk this up to racist school administrators...well that's a stretch.

 

[cr0w]

I don't believe they still have that policy. Also, it's illegal for employers to require men to be clean shaven without good reason (health and safety usually).

Nope, it's still in effect. As of this season, the Miami Marlins have adopted a no facial hair policy as well under Don Mattingly.

Private employers have the right to set whatever appearance standards they want, so long as it's not discriminatory based on religion. If someone can't shave for health reasons, they're excluded.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

American Mustache Institute?

^

 

[braves01]

Nope, it's still in effect. As of this season, the Miami Marlins have adopted a no facial hair policy as well under Don Mattingly.

Private employers have the right to set whatever appearance standards they want, so long as it's not discriminatory based on religion. If someone can't shave for health reasons, they're excluded.

Good correction, I was about to say that didn't sound right about employers.

 

[CornBurrito]

I don't believe they still have that policy. Also, it's illegal for employers to require men to be clean shaven without good reason (health and safety usually).

Where is this illegal?

Can you post/cite the legal source?

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Good correction, I was about to say that didn't sound right about employers.

The health reasons include razor bumps and employers can't make an employee shave to test whether or not they get them.

The 8th Circuit Court ruling was that enforcing a clean shaven policy was effectively racial discrimination because blacks are much more likely to get severe razor bumps from shaving and thus employers couldn't have a clean shaven policy without good reason.



Bradley v. Pizzaco of Nebraska Inc in the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals.

 

[TheSlySoul]

If it was purely for having one, that is stupid. He seems to have a clean facial hair in the photos so I doubt it was uncared for...
Also yeah it is illegal for most employers to require clean shave. It is mostly length and you have to keep it clean. I shave monthly because I keep getting ID'd. Only exception is cooking I think...

 

[Timedog]

Can't have a black valedictorian.

 

[cr0w]

The health reasons include razor bumps and employers can't make an employee shave to test whether or not they get them.

The 8th Circuit Court ruling was that enforcing a clean shaven policy was effectively racial discrimination because blacks are much more likely to get severe razor bumps from shaving and thus employers couldn't have a clean shaven policy without good reason.



Bradley v. Pizzaco of Nebraska Inc in the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Hence the "health exemption". Employers are still allowed to have policies forbidding facial hair. They just can't enforce it if it could cause a health problem.

Requiring an employee to shave his beard can end up in discrimination, because certain races, such as African Americans, have disorders that make it more burdensome to shave. For example, men who have Pseudofollicullitis Barbae, a skin disorder that is specific to African Americans, experience pain when shaving. Several individuals have successfully challenged companies that have required them to shave their beards.

However, if you do not have a skin condition as a result of your race and just prefer to have facial hair for personal and/or appearance reasons, you may not be able to challenge this requirement, as it is not discriminatory as applied to you.

https://www.workplacefairness.org/grooming-codes

 

[TheKingOfPain]

I don't live in the USA, so I still can't believe a State law can ban beard, goatees and such from school. It's crazy to me.

 

[Chance Hale]

I remember when I was a freshman I came to school with a beard and they made me shave it or get suspended. They were out of shaving cream so I sliced my face up. Good times.

 

[OriginofHysteria]

I don't live in the USA, so I still can't believe a State law can ban beard, goatees and such from school. It's crazy to me.

It's a school policy, not a state law.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Hence the "health exemption". Employers are still allowed to have policies forbidding facial hair. They just can't enforce it if it could cause a health problem.

The de facto result of the health exemption is that employers can't forbid facial hair.

 

[KDR_11k]

I can only understand "no beard" rules in jobs where you might need to wear a gas mask.

 

[cr0w]

The de facto result of the health exemption is that employers can't forbid facial hair.

For people who fall into the category I posted above, you're right.

You're wrong, however, when you say employers can't forbid facial hair outright. It's allowed as long as the enforcement of the rule is handled in a non-discriminatory manner.

 

[TheKingOfPain]

It's a school policy, not a state law.

I see. Still weird, though.

I remember when I was a freshman I came to school with a beard and they made me shave it or get suspended. They were out of shaving cream so I sliced my face up. Good times.

For real?

 

[Condom]

Ridiculous, I wouldn't have shaved either so props to the guy in the article.

 

[braves01]

The de facto result of the health exemption is that employers can't forbid facial hair.

If it's only an 8th cir. ruling I don't see how it would apply outside that circuit. For all I know other circuits have adopted it or it's been affirmed but it doesn't seem that set in stone otherwise.

 

[Skellig Gra]

But it could just be a coincidence that this particular incidence was in fact not racially motivated in any way! We can't be sure!

And then it will happen again, and people will continue to say it's all just a coincidence and fail to recognize the clear underlying pattern. And even if there are the few occasional outliers where it really is all just an unfortunate coincidence, it doesn't change a general trend.

This willful ignorance seems to have had the side effect of stopping the right from doing anything to make their party palatable to the changing demographics, so I suppose if they'd like to keep pretending that the majority of people can't see the clear trends of what's going on and making the increasingly thin claim that it's all always just a coincidence, they can keep on digging that hole.

Was the salutatorian white?

 

[Valkyr1983]

Good for him for standing up

Who cares about marching lol?

He's still valedictorian and has a high GPA

no college will know if you participated in the ceremony or not

 

[Skellig Gra]

Good for him for standing up

Who cares about marching lol?

He's still valedictorian and has a high GPA

no college will know if you participated in the ceremony or not

They will if you get on Facebook trending.

 

[Euphor!a]

In the highschool I went to if you weren't clean shaven you were given detention that day and were given a disposable razor to go shave.

What a silly thing to protest, how dumb do you have to be.

 

[Jonm1010]

High schools are run like prisons in a lot of ways, so not surprised by their terrible rules. Garbage educational system in this country + racism = this

These policies have nothing to do with racism that I have seen.

Go look at some of the most all white private schools in Louisiana and these rules have been in place forever it seems.

It's just a Louisiana thing.

 

[Jonm1010]

For people who fall into the category I posted above, you're right.

You're wrong, however, when you say employers can't forbid facial hair outright. It's allowed as long as the enforcement of the rule is handled in a non-discriminatory manner.

I worked at a popular restaurant in my city and they had a no facial hair policy and no long hair.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

On the flip side of enforcing the rules, if you're gonna let someone slide and piss everyone off for getting special treatment, it might as well be your valedictorian right? This kid's a 4.0 scholar athlete while still raising a kid for god's sakes. Then you get to look racist because you only sporadically enforce these rules most of the time? How does whatever disciplinary action you would have gotten for letting the kid slide look to you about now?

 

[metalslimer]

Yeah high schools are stupid. They forced everyone to shave if they came to school with a beard and if they didn't they were punished. I don't think this has anything to do with anything other than how stupid schools are in regards to this kind of stuff.

 

[King Tubby]

The ghost of Steinbrenner haunts their halls.

No beards isn't inane. Did like nobody in this thread ever go to a private school?

I went to one of the best private schools in the country and in my graduation photo my beard is bushier than the guy handing me the diploma.

 

[ascii42]

I went to a Catholic school through 8th grade. One of my friends wasn't allowed to walk at graduation because he shaved his head.

 

[Hex]

I just hope he gets a huge scholarship out of this stupid fiasco. Dude deserves it.

What is this shit?
It was known weeks in advance, he chose not to do it.
It does not matter if people on the internet think the policy is dumb, it was a known policy.
Many places have stupid policies.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

What is this shit?
It was known weeks in advance, he chose not to do it.
It does not matter if people on the internet think the policy is dumb, it was a known policy.
Many places have stupid policies.

He has the rest of his whole adult life to follow stupid policies. Maybe graduation should be about the students and less about policing the school's image.

 

[JABEE]

Seems extremely petty. Facial hair is a legitimate style. When this kid goes to college, no one will care about his facial hair. When he goes to work, no one will care. His facial hair seems well-groomed as well.

 

[SecretDan]

"424 students, or 83.1% of the student population at Amite High School identify as African-American, making up the majority of the student body."

http://public-schools.startclass.com/l/38999/Amite-High-School

Chances are whoever filled in for him as Valedictorian was also black.

The dress code is obviously silly and an exception should have been made for a graduation. Some of these students are adults.

 

[Vicetrailia]

How petty. Who gives a shit about his beard.

 

[Atenhaus]

Sure, there's no inherent value in looking neat/proper. What is there inherent value in? If you went to get pedantic about it.

Feel free to do interviews in track shorts and a wife-beater since clothing/appearance doesn't matter.

Fucking seriously? I have had multiple interviews with a trimmed beard (due to having extremely sensitive skin) and it has literally never been an issue. Quit trying to conflate facial hair to not dressing well.

 

[Revolutionary]

No sympathy here considering he was given ample opportunities to get rid of it before the walk. Just for some background: I have a 5 o clock shadow just a few hours after shaving so I know how annoying it can be. But rules are still rules no matter how stupid they are.

 

[Jonm1010]

He has the rest of his whole adult life to follow stupid policies. Maybe graduation should be about the students and less about policing the school's image.

Maybe but that doesn't really matter. That was his school, they had a policy(a stupid, petty one that is a holdover from a different era that exists all over this state) and he was the lone person that chose to take a stand when informed they would be enforcing it for graduation. My graduating school had a similar policy. A public school. No one protested. No one thought they were a special snowflake that the arbitrary rules shouldn't apply to. Frankly it honestly just gave everyone something to look forward to at graduation because we all grew beards.

I would get it if they were rules that were directly targeted at African Americans like those sort of workplace policies that basically force black people to adopt hair styles that aren't natural for their hair. I would totally get that protest... This though, not as much. Let alone the person cheering for him to get a scholarship for taking this stand. Which is just bizarre.

 

[akira28]

I dunno if you ever went to a private school but tons of them have rules against beards. Sure it is a strange rule now that beards are coming back in style, but I can definitely understand the rule when so many dudes have gross unkempt beards. It is easier to put a blanket rule "no beards/facial hair" than to go to individuals and go "yeah your beard looks gross, you gotta make it look good or shave."

I did. and upperclassmen were allowed to have beards provided they were kept neat.

not that it has anything to do with authority and rules focused culture wanting to stick it to the student one last time for daring to disobey.

at the damned graduation, where afterward they never have to see him again. If they could have made him repeat his senior year they might have.

 

[Jonm1010]

Fucking seriously? I have had multiple interviews with a trimmed beard (due to having extremely sensitive skin) and it has literally never been an issue. Quit trying to conflate facial hair to not dressing well.

As someone that has lived in Colorado, Louisiana, Virginia amongst others, this really seems like a cultural thing.

I have worked at places here in Louisiana with some very old, conservative ownership and they definitely look down on facial hair(although not strictly enforcing it) or anything that isn't a side part hair style or a military style buzz cut.

I would imagine this would be unheard if in many major cities but you'd be surprised down in the south.

 

[perineumlick]

What is this shit?
It was known weeks in advance, he chose not to do it.
It does not matter if people on the internet think the policy is dumb, it was a known policy.
Many places have stupid policies.

So the punishment is more important than the hard work and dedication this kid put in academically, to the point that he doesn't deserve scholarships? Some of you are real suspect lol. Unbelievable.

 

[Aselith]

On the flip side of enforcing the rules, if you're gonna let someone slide and piss everyone off for getting special treatment, it might as well be your valedictorian right? This kid's a 4.0 scholar athlete while still raising a kid for god's sakes. Then you get to look racist because you only sporadically enforce these rules most of the time? How does whatever disciplinary action you would have gotten for letting the kid slide look to you about now?

They enforced it for everyone on one day. There was nothing sporadic here, there was a policy that was technically in effect all year but they let the kids do their thing except for graduation day. And they let them know specifically this day we will be enforcing this then they took dude aside and said "remember this will be enforced for graduation day"

They did the appropriate thing and let people know that a generally unenforced policy was going to be enforced on the day and the dude still went ahead. That's on him and in a few years when he gets some more maturity he's going to say "that was on me." He'll still have his diploma and his grades. He'll be fine.

 

[Cotton McKnight]

14 people were told to shave if they wanted to walk.
13 of them decided to shave.
1 didn't, and happened to be black.

He wasn't singled out. He singled himself out. And he's not necessarily wrong to have done that, but to chalk this up to racist school administrators...well that's a stretch.

All right, issue over, lock the thread.........Seriously, dress code or no dress code.....Wait no....There was a dress code that told people that you had to shave.......

 

[akira28]

Most restaurants have that policy now well at least in my area. Especially dealing with food.

his beard hair isn't going to get in my burrito. because I won't let him anywhere near my burrito.

 

[Raonak]

This is why I only grew a beard after i graduated. I didn't want it effecting my academic performance.

Oh cool I see we're just ignoring what I said in favor of maknig things up.

I never said ""beards can be unkempt, therefore beards are unkempt""

I said "beards can be unkempt, and schools find it easier to make a blanket ban on them rather than singling out individual students."

That sounds pretty inane to me.

 

[helloresolven]

They were that petty that a black man was valedictorian. Smh.

As someone who went to school in that parish for a few years in the mid-90s, I'd be shocked if most valedictorians at that school weren't black. As mentioned earlier, that parish was disgustingly slow at integration of their schools and as far as I remember the majority of white kids went to either the Catholic schools (even if not Catholic) or the Hammond magnet school. I cannot believe it has changed much.

 

[norm9]

When I worked at a particular tourist destination park, my coworker showed up with a five o clock shadow. Supervisor made him shave with a disposable razor. We didn't deal with food, but I think it's mostly for food safety.

He should have just shaved. He didn't and paid the price. Good for him for standing up for his principles though.

 

[Jonm1010]

So the punishment is more important than the hard work and dedication this kid put in academically, to the point that he doesn't deserve scholarships? Some of you are real suspect lol. Unbelievable.

No one said he doesn't deserve scholarships. Quit being dramatic.

What if this guy wants to have his beard, another graduate wants to wear a neon robe, another wants to wear a different hat, a speaker wants to use numerous curse words, one student wants to do an extended dance number before getting his/her diploma?

Does a school just make unlimited special snowflake exemptions? The rule is largely silly, I don't think that is in dispute to most people. But if a rule is there and you are agreeing as an organization to enforce it, it becomes kinda problematic if you just start letting certain people ignore those rules whenever they feel like it and without consequence. As already said, 14 people were told the policy that had been ignored would be enforced at graduation and they needed to shave, 13 abided. 1 guy didn't and people are trying to turn him into a martyr.

 

[Audioboxer]

What the fuck is this? Schools shouldn't be discriminating like this. Their role is simply education.

If the workplaces want to enforce strict code about facial hair that is something above and beyond schools.

 

[LionPride]

For once not a race thing, if he was told multiple times to shave, brotha should'vd shaved. End of story.

 

[Onemic]

I really need to see their history of valedictorians before I have a clear opinion on this OP.

 

[akira28]

look respectable brehs.

school district still fighting desegregation, people trying to unseat the lead administrator. straigten up and fly right.
rules are rules and son you ain't graduating.