Ragnorok64
Member
Your question was
The article says
Thus the direct answer to your question, found in the article, is "no".
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Valedictorian barred from his graduation due to having facial hair in Louisiana
- Thread starter Dalek
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Thus the direct answer to your question, found in the article, is "no".
Their post is an incredibly apt description of how the kid in this story acted and and a good majority of posters at the start of this thread acted, like children.
Imperfected
Member
C'mon, man, it's his fucking graduation day. He's gone tomorrow and his beard isn't your problem anymore, why do you even care this much? If he had that facial hair the full year he was probably going to get some nasty razor bumps shaving it right before graduation, anyway.
You want to pretend like this is serious business, you need to make it a Day 1 problem, not Day 1,460.
You want to pretend like this is serious business, you need to make it a Day 1 problem, not Day 1,460.
perineumlick
Member
When you stop with the condescending "Don't be so dramatic" bullshit. Now you want to be civil.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Sorry, I just find your questions asinine and full of sophistry. Like "who are we to say what is ___ and what isn't ____" and all that. It's getting absurd, frankly.
Like this... Are you serious? You need a definition of "harm" and "disruption" now? I mean if it's so mystical and unknowable to you, how do these rules even come to being in the first place, I wonder. Let's just make shit up because "who are we to say"!
Well. Why don't you tell me, then? How are rules determined, and why? If, according to you, every rule is arbitrary (per your own logic), I guess it's no wonder you think they should be obeyed and enforced so rigidly and at all times, with no consideration for anything else but their existence.
Hahaha
I don't like personal attacks. Direct or implied.
If you have something pertinent to what I posted feel free to drop the personal stuff and get back to that, until then, Bye!
CornBurrito
Member
Actually yes, yes you do.
What is considered harmful depends on person, time, and culture. Same with disruptive.
For example, can students wear whatever they feel like? Uniforms have been demonstrated to reduce bullying, and facilitate social cohesion. Which can aid learning. Does foregoing those benefits cause harm? I'd say yes.
Sorry, I just find your questions asinine and full of sophistry. Like "who are we to say what is ___ and what isn't ____" and all that. It's getting absurd, frankly.
Like this... Are you serious? You need a definition of "harm" and "disruption" now? I mean if it's so mystical and unknowable to you, how do these rules even come to being in the first place, I wonder. Let's just make shit up because "who are we to say"!
Well. Why don't you tell me, then? How are rules determined, and why? If, according to you, every rule is arbitrary (per your own logic), I guess it's no wonder you think they should be obeyed and enforced so rigidly and at all times, with no consideration for anything else but their existence.
Hahaha
This is not that difficult. It really isn't.
You make statements several times echoing this:
A natural question arising from assessing that statement is how is the bolded determined? Because what is harmful or disruptive is not universally agreed upon. So how is that final determination of what is or isn't harmful or disruptive in district public schools made?
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Oh I understand what happened, I just consider that kind of inconsistency to be straight asking for trouble, and think it's pretty funny that this has bitten them in the ass in this case by opening the floodgates for racism suspicion from those who only catch the soundbite.
I just don't see how you can be dumb enough to turn away your student of the year over facial hair. Rules or no rules, it's just a beard. "If we let this slide, next year they'll be leaving their shirts untucked!" It's not like the kid is going to be back at your school next year
Hell I knew someone who showed up at a Celebration Station in a "JESUS IS A CUNT" shirt, and all they did was ask him to turn it inside out
HawksWinStanley
Member
This. Kind of a selfish move considering graduation isn't even really for the students as much as it's for the parents. His mom was proud as hell going into it and he couldn't just shave for her after being warned numerous times? It's just hair, it'll grow back bro.
Also lol at the ones calling racism. Not shocking considering the typical posts I see on here but ridiculous all the same.
perineumlick
Member
.
I didn't even respond to you after you said this. Now all of a sudden I'm attacking you personally. Get over yourself.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
LOL YES
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Who'd of thunk it'd stink of butt in this mo fuck?
And what? It was a statement of fact. No one said he doesn't deserve any scholarships simply because he refused to shave. You either made that up or were exaggerating/misrepresenting the shit out of someones words. The post and your behavior was coming off dramatic in tone.
What personal attack was I leveling at you there exactly? Unless essentially telling someone to calm down is now a personal attack in your mind. But I guess you did think it was a personal attack, so in your mind two wrongs make a right or something?
Subpar Scrub
Banned
It's posts like this that make the "while black" shit lose all meaning.
Next thing you know, a black guy won't sign the correct form at the DMV to get his license and it'll be "Trying to get a license while black!"
He didn't follow rules given to him weeks in advance and on the day. It's his problem.
perineumlick
Member
So saying c'mon son is a personal attack in your mind? And yes, you are taking my original post out of context, because there were two posts before that I was referencing. If you are this sensitive, maybe you should refrain from the snark yourself.
The city that the school is in is majority black though. It's safe to assume that the school is as well.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Arbitrary sure, but the student did make the decision himself to stay out because he wanted to make a point. Hes moving on, and we should accept it and move on too.
Subpar Scrub
Banned
Hey guys how about stop getting all upset about perceived slights and discuss the topic at hand. Then maybe a thread won't be locked before 48 hours pass.
I was always told to be clean shaven at school. This was never a problem and everyone who was able to shave without violating religious guidelines was made to.
Whether you think it's important or not isn't important, if your employer asks you to shave and you're not growing your facial hair for a very good reason, you shave. Schools are preparing youth for the real world and the students should follow the rules.
Source? Or is making wild claims without evidence a valid argument these days?
I was always told to be clean shaven at school. This was never a problem and everyone who was able to shave without violating religious guidelines was made to.
Whether you think it's important or not isn't important, if your employer asks you to shave and you're not growing your facial hair for a very good reason, you shave. Schools are preparing youth for the real world and the students should follow the rules.
Source? Or is making wild claims without evidence a valid argument these days?
I went to private (Catholic) school. No beards allowed.
A lot of work places have strict beard policies too. My friend is a lawyer and his firm doesn't allow beards. At my wife's hospital beards can't be longer than half an inch which is like a months work of growth.
So it's not like beard policies are unheard of.
However, they should have been consistent enforcing this rule before this point, not the day of.
A lot of work places have strict beard policies too. My friend is a lawyer and his firm doesn't allow beards. At my wife's hospital beards can't be longer than half an inch which is like a months work of growth.
So it's not like beard policies are unheard of.
However, they should have been consistent enforcing this rule before this point, not the day of.
"c'mon son" is typically a phrase used to end cap something and imply a person is dumb or being dumb, so yeah.
The scholarships post was made directly quoting someone that never once said what you asserted. You just threw in some hyperbole for some reason and got called out multiple times, including by me. Take it as a learning lesson and move on. If you have no interest in actually staying on topic and just want to exclusively mud sling, I have no interest. If all you can add to discussions is dismissive sentences after exaggerating or misrepresenting arguments, you are probably going to take a lot of "L's" around here.
Subpar Scrub
Banned
Pls stop.
If you read the post I have every intention of no longer engaging in his personal mudslinging nonsense but I also am not going to ignore when a person is literally lying about matters of fact and poisoning threads with that sort of hyperbolic nonsense.
Honestly this thread has pretty much run its course. Its definitely went in circles at least a few times and no new ground gets covered.
Oh I understand what happened, I just consider that kind of inconsistency to be straight asking for trouble, and think it's pretty funny that this has bitten them in the ass in this case by opening the floodgates for racism suspicion from those who only catch the soundbite.
I just don't see how you can be dumb enough to turn away your student of the year over facial hair. Rules or no rules, it's just a beard. "If we let this slide, next year they'll be leaving their shirts untucked!" It's not like the kid is going to be back at your school next year
Hell I knew someone who showed up at a Celebration Station in a "JESUS IS A CUNT" shirt, and all they did was ask him to turn it inside out
I wonder if they actually took the hard stance BECAUSE he was valedictorian. Like dude is going to be up on the stage speaking in front of the assembled parents and students so, if they let him go up like that as a very visible person, are they going to get even more pushback next year?
I mean yeah THIS dude won't be back but what about the grade behind him that see up there flouting convention with his rebel beard on? Won't you think of the children, Fine Ham Abounds!
They took the hard stance because they got into this line of work because they like to micromanage and control people. Not all administrators are like this, but the ones that are love this stuff.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
So why can't I just flip the question right back at you, and ask you, how does one determine that beards are harmful and disruptive? The onus is on the one deciding the rule to explain why the rule exists, not the other way around.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Dress codes are stupid. But as long as they exist, I don't really see the problem here. It's not like they withheld his diploma.
Why exactly couldn't the guy just shave his beard? Was it against his religion? Contrary to his gender identity? As far as I can tell, he was just being stubborn.
I honestly don't understand what the problem here is. Why is this a story? Person blindly refuses to follow rules of venue, person is kicked out of said venue. As far as I can tell, the rule is in no way discriminatory, just stupid, and there are PLENTY of stupid rules in life that need to be followed anyway.
Why exactly couldn't the guy just shave his beard? Was it against his religion? Contrary to his gender identity? As far as I can tell, he was just being stubborn.
I honestly don't understand what the problem here is. Why is this a story? Person blindly refuses to follow rules of venue, person is kicked out of said venue. As far as I can tell, the rule is in no way discriminatory, just stupid, and there are PLENTY of stupid rules in life that need to be followed anyway.
Knightmarre
Member
Seems like an open and shut case. Rules say no facial hair for graduation, he knew ahead of time and did it anyway.
I'm torn on this ...
1) The rule says no facial hair is allowed, he was asked to shave for graduation and refused, seems like it's really simple.
2) It's a stupid rule and shouldn't exist, men grow facial hair, it's natural. Is there a rule against chest hair too? It's not like his beard is out of control.
1) The rule says no facial hair is allowed, he was asked to shave for graduation and refused, seems like it's really simple.
2) It's a stupid rule and shouldn't exist, men grow facial hair, it's natural. Is there a rule against chest hair too? It's not like his beard is out of control.
But he is being disruptive and he is hurting something, namely the decorum of the ceremony.
We can all scoff at this because it's a high school ceremony, high school is fucking nothing. I mean my dissertation defense, sure, 400 year old university, bunch of rites steeped in history, not showing up in tailcoat would get met turned around and the defense cancelled. You adhere to it because that's important. High school? Psh I'd do the same as this guy, ain't no one messing with my G style. I'm too school for cool anyway.
But now imagine you live in a poor, underachieving Louisiana town, forty percent doesn't even have a high school diploma. The school wants to make something big and swanky of the graduation ceremony for two reasons, A) because it's a fucking nice carrot on a stick for high school pupils to actually finish their high school and not drop out into crime, B) so that for once in their young lives they actually feel classy and part of higher society, so that they know a dime can fit in fine with the quarters ( C) because having the classiest graduation attracts new students for the high school). Then the valedictorian of all people, the poster child for future generations, wants to waste it all with his raggedy ass beard, hurting the decorum for the next generation of students. Fuck him.
Yes it's a beard, it's silly, but in the above light he might be harming a lot more than nobody.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Also from LA, my highschool had the same BS. Fuck you Riedlinger you corrupt bitch.
marimorimo
Member
Yep. You've got to learn to pick your battles. The graduating kid picked the wrong one.
Itaremustbedangeres
Member
This makes me fucking angry, what is this shit? People can't even grow a beard like they want to? He's a kid ffs let him try stuff out and experiment with his looks the way he wants too. It's not like he's wearing nothing BUT a beard when he wanted to enter the stage.
I am afraid this isn't parody. It is, right? A dress policy for facial hair at a school is one of the stupidest things I have heard of.
And I kind of think school uniforms are not a bad idea.
"Raggedy ass beard"? He looks totally fine. Nobody would even look twice at his facial hair. It's completely ridiculous.
jim-jam bongs
Member
The thing which is really dumb is that they had never enforced the rule, then decided to do it for this one event. Maybe he was convinced they just would let it slide given their lax history with the application of it, and the fact that he was valedictorian.
I mean, I went to a private school with a uniform and haircut/facial hair regulations; but even they would have let it slide in this instance, while heavily enforcing it every other day. Obviously it's against the rules, but fuck man, let the kid have his day.
I mean, I went to a private school with a uniform and haircut/facial hair regulations; but even they would have let it slide in this instance, while heavily enforcing it every other day. Obviously it's against the rules, but fuck man, let the kid have his day.
Itaremustbedangeres
Member
It's not like he shaved a dick shape in his beard to offend everyone attending. It's just a lil 'stache and a bit of chin (probably all he can grow at his age). I'm assuming someone just wanted to be a dick to him and ruin his special day. They've certainly accomplished that.
So if they love this stuff how come they only enforced it at graduation?
Why? Because you are making the argument, not me. So shit or get off the fucking pot. If you can't defend your arguments in the face of simple challenges to your logic then that is a strong indicator its a shit argument.
This evasive bullshit is getting old.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Wow, you keep getting more hostile and angry and I have no idea why.
All I'm saying is that it's a dumb useless rule because it doesn't contribute to preventing harm or disruption (which is what school rules are for) and it's inconsistently enforced anyway, so being extremely rigid about something as insignificant as minimal facial hair on some boy's face is stupid and counter-productive. Which is really not a controversial opinion at all, but feel free to dramatically fume over my post if you want. *shrugs*
edit:
Thank you lol.
One they didn't even enforce during the school year, apparently. I would have told them to fuck off too.
"We'd hire you, but you're from that school where that valedictorian wore a beard once, so we can't hire you."
- No manager ever
since that superintendent has been blamed for ignoring schools in black districts, I'd say graduation time is probably the only time he's around.
Not angry, annoyed at your behavior and now the lying. If all your argument was was declaring you personally didn't approve of the rule, your posts would read a lot different. For instance this post wouldn't of existed:
Defending students who choose not to adhere to rules deemed idiotic, outdated and useless by you. To which I first began questioning how such a determination of what rules fit that description would be made?
Thats a reasonable summary of how to determine if something is arbitrary, useless or stupid, but that wasn't what was asked. So I reiterated by asking how is that classification determined? Which of course, I received only an evasive, non-answer.
So here we are again, you defining what makes a rule useless but not actually answering my question while also advocating that students not be punished for disobeying rules you deem harmless. So once again I ask, how is this determination made? Who or how is it decided what rules are wrong or inappropriate to enforce? How does a school function effectively if students can disregard rules you have deemed harmless but are codified into policy?
Of course all I get is another non-answer. Then followed by two more exchanges and non-answers to the same question. Then one last response which is just a weak deflection to the same question I have been asking for hours.
Topped off with this nugget:
Which is a flat out fucking lie. Your arguments have been a much higher caliber of nonsense then just saying the rule is dumb in your personal opinion. If that was all that was going on, we would be having a much different discussion, namely, because I would of agreed with you since the rule is fucking dumb.
If you want to admit you went too far in some of your posts then own it. If not, quit acting evasive and defend the statements you made.
I too disagreed with a lot of arbitrary rules of educational institutions from my youth. In this case it's a silly rule. Generally though, for graduation I suck it up and follow it because that day isn't mine, it's for my family, it's theirs. I don't really know how to feel about this. Good on him for sticking up for his principles, I guess?
Yes I don't agree with it either, but it's not fundamentally different from school uniforms and enforcing them. If you think decorum for special occasions is a defendable idea, barring someone from being on stage with a beard is a defendable idea, even if you and I don't agree with this particular dress code.
(I think most beards and especially the ones worn by high schoolers are pretty icky, so I'm probably a bit less strongly against it, but still)
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