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[Bry0]

The images I posted are no longer from the JDI link that was in the subreddit as it seems either JDI changed domain or it went somewhere else but there was no model nor datasheet, it was promotion for future panel and their name for it was 'metaverse".

Thank god for wayback machine

Metaverse (ultra-high definition display) | Products & Technologies | Japan Display Inc.

This page introduces Metaverse (ultra-high definition display).

web.archive.org

JDI acquired eLEAP and they say they use eLEAP technology for the display tech, unsure exactly what as I guess eLEAP has a nice portfolio of patents and tech.


The previous leak that put JDI in Deckard prototype, here PoC for proof of concept, F for the iteration.



It was leaked to have used 2.8" panels from JDI model lpm026m648c
Those aren't the same as the ones I posted but this was prototype. 2.8" size though for an headset means their solution was going towards LCD over microOLED. Or they were toying with a wide FOV perhaps and not indicated of final product anyway.

I know valve has patents for microOLED and I think they really wanted it to happen at one point, it might be inevitable when production improves, an option for a revision of the model later down the line and there's rumours of it, but if they want to release in immediate future, the production costs are just ridiculous. $2000 headset is basically all in on microOLED optics, you have nothing cool or innovative you can put on it because the costs are so damn high.

Valve also always favoured high FOV and high refresh rate, so it just seems like microOLED tech is not there yet sadly. I really wish it was a display solution with no problems but it seems all solutions have pro and cons. Valve surely doesn't wants a >$2000 headset either, there's headsets for that niche already. I think Valve wants to change the status quo of VR headsets, not in display only but probably a long list of improvements. Even $1,200 as per rumours will be a tough sell.

I could really see them go for a steam deck lcd/oled situation. If they design for it early, it could be doable. I'm sure they don't want costs that are too out of control, but as you know in vr spaces there is a hunger for a really premium piece of kit too. I don't doubt they will make smart design choices. I'm in brads discord so I've followed the whole saga. I would imagine those pocf panels are either just for prototyping or maybe as an initial model with a more expensive higher res solution later for the enthusiasts. Or at this rate maybe they will launch two models simultaneously.

Whatever they do I'm looking forward to seeing it and the software stack.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I could really see them go for a steam deck lcd/oled situation. If they design for it early, it could be doable. I'm sure they don't want costs that are too out of control, but as you know in vr spaces there is a hunger for a really premium piece of kit too.

Yea there were rumours of that too not too long ago, LCD immediate future, microOLED when production makes sense

I can't even begin to imagine the nightmare of an american tech company designing with chinese components a VR headset right now. Imagine tariffs on the already expensive display panels.

I'm sure valve is looking at all options but it has to make sense. It might not even be JDI, I mean its all speculation, prototype using JDI doesn't mean much in the world of Valve when they have so many prototypes in the bin anyway.

 

[StereoVsn]

Yea there were rumours of that too not too long ago, LCD immediate future, microOLED when production makes sense

I can't even begin to imagine the nightmare of an american tech company designing with chinese components a VR headset right now. Imagine tariffs on the already expensive display panels.

I'm sure valve is looking at all options but it has to make sense. It might not even be JDI, I mean it's all speculation, prototype using JDI doesn't mean much in the world of Valve when they have so many prototypes in the bin anyway.

They could source out of SK or Japan. There got to be companies that can produce to this spec in those countries.

 

[Goalus]

DOA if it needs a cable and doesn't have inside-out tracking.

 

[Durin]

It's weird, because I'm pretty excited, but it's all the stuff around the actual VR headset.

I'd love to see them take another crack at a controller with the better ergonomics the Steam Deck put out, just using tmr sticks, improve the trackpads further, and better haptics for rumble support.

The move to ARM though could be huge if the performance hit isn't massive, and we can see more pc games on android/iOS/MacOS.

 

[Haint]

DOA if it needs a cable and doesn't have inside-out tracking.

There has never been any inkling of rumors about a wire or lighthouse tracking, 99.9% guaranteed to have inside out tracking and some kind of special purpose built dedicated wireless streaming for PCVR.

 

[BlueManifest]

The images I posted are no longer from the JDI link that was in the subreddit as it seems either JDI changed domain or it went somewhere else but there was no model nor datasheet, it was promotion for future panel and their name for it was 'metaverse".

Thank god for wayback machine

Metaverse (ultra-high definition display) | Products & Technologies | Japan Display Inc.

This page introduces Metaverse (ultra-high definition display).

web.archive.org

JDI acquired eLEAP and they say they use eLEAP technology for the display tech, unsure exactly what as I guess eLEAP has a nice portfolio of patents and tech.


The previous leak that put JDI in Deckard prototype, here PoC for proof of concept, F for the iteration.



It was leaked to have used 2.8" panels from JDI model lpm026m648c
Those aren't the same as the ones I posted but this was prototype. 2.8" size though for an headset means their solution was going towards LCD over microOLED. Or they were toying with a wide FOV perhaps and not indicated of final product anyway.

I know valve has patents for microOLED and I think they really wanted it to happen at one point, it might be inevitable when production improves, an option for a revision of the model later down the line and there's rumours of it, but if they want to release in immediate future, the production costs are just ridiculous. $2000 headset is basically all in on microOLED optics, you have nothing cool or innovative you can put on it because the costs are so damn high.

Valve also always favoured high FOV and high refresh rate, so it just seems like microOLED tech is not there yet sadly. I really wish it was a display solution with no problems but it seems all solutions have pro and cons. Valve surely doesn't wants a >$2000 headset either, there's headsets for that niche already. I think Valve wants to change the status quo of VR headsets, not in display only but probably a long list of improvements. Even $1,200 as per rumours will be a tough sell.

Are micro leds possible yet in headsets or would the screens be mini led, I know micro led tvs still aren't being mass produced yet

 

[IbizaPocholo]

 

[crackajack]

I want it to cost more. No compromises and no LCD

there is certainly a niche of people that would spent a ton on high end, increasingly proven by 3090 cards etc. But VR needs mass market to ever get more proper games and that means cheap hardware while still being superior to everything we got so far. Feels like VR has been way too long in a compromised situation that is just not good enough in features while also too high a price for what it offered.
Kinda unrelated but when Nubia can sell the Redmagic 11 Pro with watercooled Snapdragon Elite for 699 that seems like where VR should probably be. High end ARM and whatever is best for display for something way below 1000.

 

[Ziglax]

I disagree. I've been a huge advocate for VR since I backed the original Oculus on kickstarter, and I think a vast majority of VR games are one-offs or just garbage.

Nothing comes even close to HL Alyx. Not even remotely close. It's like being shown everything that VR can be, and then having literally no other games follow that example.

At this point, I tell most people to just borrow a friend's VR setup and just play through Alyx.

Same thing.
There is almost no full scale games in VR. Not even good games, just... any game at all. Only mobile knock-offs, which I'm not interested at all.
For me VR is basically only HL:Alyx, Skyrim VR and Fallout 4 VR (the 2 later are behind a HUGE adoption wall through complex modding).
If Valve releases another new headset, they better have a killer app with it, because we can only play 10y old games for so long.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

If Valve releases another new headset, they better have a killer app with it

HL: Alyx is this killer app, it's not enough.

 

[BlueManifest]

there is certainly a niche of people that would spent a ton on high end, increasingly proven by 3090 cards etc. But VR needs mass market to ever get more proper games and that means cheap hardware while still being superior to everything we got so far. Feels like VR has been way too long in a compromised situation that is just not good enough in features while also too high a price for what it offered.
Kinda unrelated but when Nubia can sell the Redmagic 11 Pro with watercooled Snapdragon Elite for 699 that seems like where VR should probably be. High end ARM and whatever is best for display for something way below 1000.

I heard micro lcd can achieve higher FoV than micro oled currently so I'm not 100% sure I would want micro oled if the headset can have 130-150 degree fov with micro lcd, fov is very important to me, a very high quality lcd might be better

I've really had enough of all headsets being 100-110 fov for 10 years, it's really not enough it sometimes makes me just feel like I'm looking at a big tv or looking through a window instead of actually being there

 

[Ziglax]

HL: Alyx is this killer app, it's not enough.

Alyx is more than 5y old though. And it's not a very long game.
There is only hardware in the VR market, no software at all, it's depressing.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Alyx is more than 5y old though. And it's not a very long game.
There is only hardware in the VR market, no software at all, it's depressing.

Surely you mean no AAA software, right? Because there's endless slop and some hidden gems out there on the software side.

 

[BlueManifest]

Alyx is more than 5y old though. And it's not a very long game.
There is only hardware in the VR market, no software at all, it's depressing.

The game is the same length as half life 1 and 2 or in the same ball park

 

[Magic Carpet]

The game is the same length as half life 1 and 2 or in the same ball park

Yea, I thought it was a good length, and it's divided into chapters like HL games. VR games really need chapters, or segments to Break the VR gameplay into smaller chunks. 15 or 20 min at a time. I think VR games would greatly benefit. After 20 min most people start getting tired.

 

[BlueManifest]

Yea, I thought it was a good length, and it's divided into chapters like HL games. VR games really need chapters, or segments to Break the VR gameplay into smaller chunks. 15 or 20 min at a time. I think VR games would greatly benefit. After 20 min most people start getting tired.

I was so into it I didn't take breaks esp once I reached the last 3-4 hrs, flat games with the new headset will be able to play while sitting

 

[Buggy Loop]

I heard micro lcd can achieve higher FoV than micro oled currently so I'm not 100% sure I would want micro oled if the headset can have 130-150 degree fov with micro lcd, fov is very important to me, a very high quality lcd might be better

It's inherent to the size of the panels. LCD can have easily ~2.5" panels while microOLED are in the ~1.2" panels range. Beyond VR 2 using 1" as an example.

Its very hard on optics to bring the smaller panel to high FOV and not have lens artifacts even with pancake lenses. The saying around VR forums is that you're basically massacring the beautiful microOLED panel display quality with the lenses and can end up with worse edge to edge clarity than LCD.

While trying to maximize FOV on these panels you can sacrifice binocular overlap, affecting the depth perception which in VR is kind of a downer.

Outside of perfect blacks*, there's a lot of cons with microOLED so far, including production limitations and insane prices.

*perfect blacks are not even true on VR panels because of the motion persistence problem. To diminish this problem they either lower the brightness of the display (which is a problem with pancake lenses which only leave 12% of brightness to your eyes), or they'll raise the overall black level to not pure black because switching from pure black to high brightness is a problem with motion persistence in VR, anything "OLED" has had this problem so far.

• Cons of microOLED
  • smaller FOV
  • lower Hz
  • motion persistence
  • higher energy consumption
  • heating of panels which can result in shorter lifespan
  • limited production
  • highest costs
  • Can still have burn in (not a big issue imo and unlikely)
• Pros of microOLED
  • Better blacks than mini LED solution
  • Extreme fast response time (but this adds the motion persistence problem)

The day they can manufacture hefty ~2.5" microOLED, production capabilities are there and costs are not an arm and a leg, it'll be a no brainer to pick it, but as of now, I'm not so sure Valve will pick it.

To be seen! Possibly this wednesday according to rumors.

 

[BlueManifest]

It's inherent to the size of the panels. LCD can have easily ~2.5" panels while microOLED are in the ~1.2" panels range. Beyond VR 2 using 1" as an example.

Its very hard on optics to bring the smaller panel to high FOV and not have lens artifacts even with pancake lenses. The saying around VR forums is that you're basically massacring the beautiful microOLED panel display quality with the lenses and can end up with worse edge to edge clarity than LCD.

While trying to maximize FOV on these panels you can sacrifice binocular overlap, affecting the depth perception which in VR is kind of a downer.

Outside of perfect blacks*, there's a lot of cons with microOLED so far, including production limitations and insane prices.

*perfect blacks are not even true on VR panels because of the motion persistence problem. To diminish this problem they either lower the brightness of the display (which is a problem with pancake lenses which only leave 12% of brightness to your eyes), or they'll raise the overall black level to not pure black because switching from pure black to high brightness is a problem with motion persistence in VR, anything "OLED" has had this problem so far.

• Cons of microOLED
  • smaller FOV
  • lower Hz
  • motion persistence
  • higher energy consumption
  • heating of panels which can result in shorter lifespan
  • limited production
  • highest costs
  • Can still have burn in (not a big issue imo and unlikely)
• Pros of microOLED
  • Better blacks than mini LED solution
  • Extreme fast response time (but this adds the motion persistence problem)

The day they can manufacture hefty ~2.5" microOLED, production capabilities are there and costs are not an arm and a leg, it'll be a no brainer to pick it, but as of now, I'm not so sure Valve will pick it.

To be seen! Possibly this wednesday according to rumors.

Wonder what's the reason they can't make 2 inch oled screens if they are able to make 1 inch ones

Seems like it should be the opposite, they can make 2 inch ones but not 1 inch

 

[Buggy Loop]

Wonder what's the reason they can't make 2 inch oled screens if they are able to make 1 inch ones

$$$$, new technology and yields

Unlike OLED technology, microOLED is has the OLED directly built in the silicon wafer and not a glass substrate. They're completely different.

It's reported that Apple had ~20% yields for their apple vision panels

Apple was 1.41"

Approximately ~600mm^2 of silicon area (higher likely)

A 5080 GPU is 378mm^2 for a comparison

A 2.x display panel would skyrocket the area beyond a 5090's 750mm^2

The bigger you scale it the more yields will drop like a rock.

It's an inevitable future, just not now.