"Buy Xbox One. PS4 got no games."
Variety: YouTube Cancels PewDiePie Show, Pulls Channel from Premium Ad Program
- Thread starter FelipeMGM
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"Buy Xbox One. PS4 got no games."
ModestMouseTrap
Banned
People learn from media yes, but media isn't the sole determining factor in human behavior. Can you honestly say a single tv show defined your reality and view of the entire world and your life? That's absurd.
South Park didn't make people racist. That seed was already planted, by a parent or someone of close influence.
He's not the greatest role model for children, on his channel he has a reaction video of him watching hentai. He is making fun of it and is disgusted in his reactions which is normal and appropriate, but still pretty messed up to expose kids to the idea itself. Think of the children is absolutely relevant in a conversation about PewDiePie and the millions of children who follow him.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
There was this book a journo wrote about neo-nazi groups in spain, he infriltrated those groups for years and exposed their hatred and how manipulated young people into that spiral of hate.
Some idiots used it as manual to make their own neo-nazi groups.
Cartman is constantly portrayed as an awful human being, is people thing that's good, I don't think is the writer's fault in this case.
The problem here is that the concepts of nazism and holocaust aren't portrayed as awful things, but rather in a silly inocuous way. Lot of media has made jokes about nazis, but they are still portrayed as something evil....
Just because he's on YouTube dosen't mean his demographic is children.
If we can agree that not all games are designed for children we can also agree that not all YouTubers are catering to kids.
But cartoons is purely for kids. You can't make that adult only.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
By your understanding no piece of media can influence us and how we think. It's all just whatever.
UberTag
Member
Three caveats here...
1) South Park is explicitly clear about not being marketed towards children. They go through all of the proper checks and balances, have disclaimers and I'm sure they have thrown out jokes that go too far and capitulated to sponsors and network officials. Matt and Trey have exercised due diligence and owned up to their responsibility.
PDP has a predominantly kid-based audience that is impressionable, did not vet his joke and did not live up to the responsibility and good faith that had been afforded to him.
This is like arguing that Trump's EO to ban Muslims was executed just as well as Obama's EO to curtail Iraqi refugees when this couldn't be further from the truth.
2) Eric Cartman does not go around Kyle saying "death to all Jews" or suggesting that he should die BECAUSE he's a Jew. He rags on him for being a Jew constantly but there's a vast difference between doing that and suggesting that Kyle DIE as a funny joke because of his Jewish background. Beyond that, he's portrayed as an awful human being for doing so.
3) South Park is actually funny - most of the time. Frankly, they've earned the benefit of the doubt more than PewDiePie has. His "joke" - such as it was - wasn't funny at all and was simply looking to get eyes due to shock value. And he accomplished that - now he has to face the consequences for that action.
On the one hand Ethan is right in talking about the importance of context for all this and does have a good point about demonizing pewdiepie, but he completely misses the point on why Disney dropped him and only barely pays lip service to the notion that Pewdiepie has more than a modicum of responsibility for destroying his channel overnight. As usual with Ethan, especially since the election, he plays up the notion that all sides are bad while avoiding placing responsibility on himself and other youtubers like him. Absolutely nothing about the WSJ headline is incorrect, and while the video would have done better with serious context to pewdiepie's content, a major entertainment company like Disney rightfully doesn't care about context. All they as a brand label need to see is that something marketed to kids features Nazi content and they'll rightfully drop it like a hot potato.
In attempting to provide context, he completely misrepresents the corporate side of this debacle and thus ultimately ends up providing a perspective which is just as myopic as those he is criticizing.
Have you ever heard of a place called Japan?
I mean, millions of children and teens watch Harry Partridge stuff, does that mean he has to tone down his stuff just because there are demographics he doesn't focus on that watch his stuff? I feel like trying to take into account every demographic is pointless. Why restrict yourself to PG stuff. I'm sure just as many teens and young adults like his stuff so why should he care that children are also watching it.
I mean, I wouldn't, but if I was a multi-millionaire, I wouldn't be working in the first place.
I felt South Park when it was blowing up leaned pretty hard into Cartman's popularity, and to some extent definitely used him as a vehicle to get away with tons of 'edgy' jokes. And yeah, most teens watching it at the time defnitely just seemed to enjoy that stuff on the most surface level where the racist jokes itself became the joke, instead of the fact that someone would be awful enough to say that stuff.
Lol. Half of the animation on youtube is definitely not for kids.
I mean, if you're here on this board full of enthusiast gamers, you were influenced by the media you played and sought out a community to talk about it with.
That's a great contributing factor in what influence media can have to seek out others who hold the same interests.
Because hentai is creepy? Who in their right mind knowing they have 50 million people watching including millions of children talk about and joke about the details of a hentai?
Media trends and consumption habits do help shape people's beliefs and cognitive behavior, which in turn influences the next generation of creators, and creates a macro scale feedback loop. For example, social media addiction is a real phenomenon that- along with the way humans fundamentally interact in an environment that allows high speed access to unprecedented amounts of information- has produced a generation of people with fundamentally different views and habits concerning social interaction not seen in pre-Internet generations or even modern peoples who lack reliable Internet access. We also know, for an easier example, that advertising and propaganda simply works on the human brain and forces people to believe in stuff that may or may not be true, and thus we have advertising standards to make sure we're not fucking up people- particularly children- too badly with misleading information or methods of communication whose influence may be considered unethical.
Subsequently, single programs or outlets can have vast influences on segments of the population depending upon how widely they're watched and how they disseminate messages. Just ask the people who's seen otherwise centrist loved ones get caught up in the Fox News hole and become right-wing assholes. Look at the way online recruitment into fringe, bigoted, and terrorist groups has spread rapidly in the last decade or so.
The longer people act like media doesn't have any effect on people's cognition whatsoever, and that all behavior and ethics are somehow shaped by people's immediate social circle, then the longer we'll keep putting off the issues caused by not examining the media we consume and the ways in which we consume it.
Hmmm, I dunno, how about all the Let's Players who play clearly M rated games like RE7 and Until Dawn or borderline porn games like HuniePop. I'm sure Markiplier and Jacksepticeye have large children fanbases. Doesn't stop them from playing mature games.
He wasn't watching a borderline porn, he was watching porn.
As for the violent games, network TV has tons of violence, society views depictions of violence and sex very differently.
ModestMouseTrap
Banned
Yes, media can contribute on SOME level. I'm not saying we all live in a vacuum. What I AM saying is that I think you'd be sorely mistaken to think that a single show creates the entirety of somebody's reality.
The key word is ENTIRETY. You have to acknowledge that human interaction and the people who raise and teach us are one of the largest determining factors in our world view.
You are ignoring all the other myriads of factors that make up a humans views. Things like, personal experiences, upbringing, education, social groups, religious beliefs.
All of these things create and contribute to a person's world view.
The TV and internet are not the all controlling all knowing god of human influence and behavior. Just a facet and reflection of current human behavior.
Edit: what I'm getting at is people CHOOSE their media based on their beliefs typically.
Someone whos making the content they want to make
I dont know about actually reacting to it
But there are lpers who joke about that stuff and worse and have fanbases with children
Naked Snake
Member
Someone hasn't heard about the My Little Pony fandom over here
How would you feel if an adult started talking to your children about hentai? It's ok, it's just the "content" they want to make in the world!
ModestMouseTrap
Banned
I mean... that's a fair point lmfao.
JRW
Member
Well damn, I guess Disney / YouTube didn't bother looking into WSJ's claims before reacting, What a clusterfuck.
Stone Ocean
Member
How is that any worse than whatever sexualized bullshit that shows up on TV?
They put about as much effort into signing him on too.
Hmm these analytics tell us he is popular, and with children! *Disney opens wallet*
Maybe on the premium channels, but that can easily be blocked by parents. PewDiePie's hentai reaction video wasn't behind a sign in to view mature content deal or anything like that (granted he didn't show the graphic parts, but he did verbally describe what was happening "off screen".)
I would be a responsible adult and monitor what they do and restrict and teach them correctly
I watched the boondocks when I was like in middle school. I probably shouldnt have been watching it, but that show is about all types of dirty shit. I didnt loose my mind because I saw south park, or the venture brothers, or harvey birdman.
This content isn't made for children in mind, but sone do watch it. I dont think adult swim should account for the 12 year olds that stay up and watch anyway. Maybe he should mark it as "for adults" but if some kid watches it anyway. It ain't much they can do. So instead of blaming the content in this scenario, blame yourself
Be a perent and watch your damn kid
This isn't some universal truth, either. Not everywhere views sex as some terrible unholy thing, nor is brutal violence universally more acceptable than sex.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
I gotta be honest, seeing pewdiepie taken down a peg is a little delicious.
His popularity is hard to overstate, kids leave little notes about him on the kids table at our store on a monthly basis.
His popularity is hard to overstate, kids leave little notes about him on the kids table at our store on a monthly basis.
You havent either, apperently.
My take on this whole thing:
I doubt Felix is anti-Semitic. I do think he is an entitled dude who thinks using anti-Semitic language for shock value and then calls it "punching up" or "shock joke". I think setting the goal post as "Felix is a good person and not anti-Semitic" is a straw man fallacy. The issue is not that he is a white nationalist. The issue is that he saw no issue using anti-Semitic imagery on a somewhat regular basis to be "funny".
The video of him wearing the MAGA hat and watching Hitler is an actual joke about the Alt-Right being thinly veiled white nationalists and enthusiastic Trump supporters. That has a point and something to say about the world we live in today. It also has shock value. If that were the video that got him into trouble I would defend it as having some valid statement beyond pure shock value.
Paying two guys to hold up a "Death to Jews" sign and dance says nothing about anything and is clearly designed to just be shocking. It's also got an added bonus of "hey, look at these poor people in a country who will do shit for 5 dollars", which is not exactly bum-fight territory, but has a similar ickyness to it.
It is basically leaning on the fact that it is taboo to be the joke. Something being taboo does not make it a joke, calling it a joke is just cover for doing something you probably should not have done.
South Park has largely leaned on the same things. Hillary Clinton's vagina having a gun was a fucking deplorable episode which never should have happened and had jack shit to do with anything at fucking all. Shit like that is why I stopped watching South Park. Which is a shame, because Matt and Trey have some really witty fucking episodes that are fucking fantastic.
Cards Against Humanity is basically a box of "Death to Jews" jokes.
I don't think any of these people are "bad" people. I don't think it makes PewDiePie a bad person. I think it makes him an insensitive asshole who is willing to use anti-Semitism as shock value with no regard for the fact that there are white supremacists in the world who think that is a generally good idea and we are only a generation removed from mass genocide of Jewish people from Germany and Russia.
I also think that Google and Disney have every right to distance themselves from him. It's why you don't see many national chains stocking cards against humanity. He is too small and the revenue too inconsequential for billion dollar entities to be associated with him given the bad press.
I doubt Felix is anti-Semitic. I do think he is an entitled dude who thinks using anti-Semitic language for shock value and then calls it "punching up" or "shock joke". I think setting the goal post as "Felix is a good person and not anti-Semitic" is a straw man fallacy. The issue is not that he is a white nationalist. The issue is that he saw no issue using anti-Semitic imagery on a somewhat regular basis to be "funny".
The video of him wearing the MAGA hat and watching Hitler is an actual joke about the Alt-Right being thinly veiled white nationalists and enthusiastic Trump supporters. That has a point and something to say about the world we live in today. It also has shock value. If that were the video that got him into trouble I would defend it as having some valid statement beyond pure shock value.
Paying two guys to hold up a "Death to Jews" sign and dance says nothing about anything and is clearly designed to just be shocking. It's also got an added bonus of "hey, look at these poor people in a country who will do shit for 5 dollars", which is not exactly bum-fight territory, but has a similar ickyness to it.
It is basically leaning on the fact that it is taboo to be the joke. Something being taboo does not make it a joke, calling it a joke is just cover for doing something you probably should not have done.
South Park has largely leaned on the same things. Hillary Clinton's vagina having a gun was a fucking deplorable episode which never should have happened and had jack shit to do with anything at fucking all. Shit like that is why I stopped watching South Park. Which is a shame, because Matt and Trey have some really witty fucking episodes that are fucking fantastic.
Cards Against Humanity is basically a box of "Death to Jews" jokes.
I don't think any of these people are "bad" people. I don't think it makes PewDiePie a bad person. I think it makes him an insensitive asshole who is willing to use anti-Semitism as shock value with no regard for the fact that there are white supremacists in the world who think that is a generally good idea and we are only a generation removed from mass genocide of Jewish people from Germany and Russia.
I also think that Google and Disney have every right to distance themselves from him. It's why you don't see many national chains stocking cards against humanity. He is too small and the revenue too inconsequential for billion dollar entities to be associated with him given the bad press.
Shh, don't tell anyone, but that was a joke.
Again, this is a straw man fallacy.
Very few people have *ever* argued (save maybe Tipper Gore in the 90s) that media directly causes changes in behavior.
But there is lots of evidence that consistent reaffirmation of specific views *normalizes* that behavior. The normalization of that behavior can lead people to take action on those thoughts that otherwise would not. It's why you have videos of kids chanting "build that wall" at Hispanic children in schools after the election. Once people are permission-ed that something is ok it changes their propensity to act on preexisting feelings and can actually encourage people to change their attitudes towards certain activities.
It's why we don't have a bunch of kids running around elementary school calling tackle-football "smear the queer". Rampant homophobia in the 80s and 90s had real world consequences for LGBTQ people, and continues to this day. But the de-normalization of homophobic speech has been directly correlated with positive change and safety improvements for that community.
Obviously this is a slice of the puzzle, but jokes and media do have a normalizing effect on real world actions both big and small that create a problem over a large enough population acting on those actions.
adversarial
Member
Seems this was definitely blown gigantically out of proportion.
Disney and Google don't have the appetite to defend the nuances of a niche D list celebrities anti-semetic jokes. He is small-fry to their bottom line, so they cut him.
Pewdiepie played himself here. Once you start getting into bed with large corporations you have to understand the larger commercial impact your actions may have, and the consequences that those create.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Thank goodness, Ethan needed to do a video on this. I was getting pretty frustrated in this thread.
palpabl_purpura
Member
adversarial
Member
h3h3 makes a good point that this type of "manufactured outrage" trivializes honest-to-god racism and bigotry - as a black dude who's dealt with real shit, I feel bad for Felix, made some unfunny jokes and got ripped to pieces.
Galactic Specter
Member
A little context goes a long way.
Is it garbage because you don't get? Or do you not get garbage?
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Just public opinion.
Which is a problem.
Knee jerk reactions to sensational titles creates manhunts that ruin people's lives. Big companies see that and react to it.
Context of paying two guys to hole a "death to jews" sign doesn't matter to most people.
Unless you want to see my hilarious youtube videos where I pay people to hold up offensive signs with hate-speech targeted at minority groups for a half-hour and feign shock that people did exactly what I paid them to do.
Both lol.
Yeah but Maker dropped him because his Content isn't targeting the kids anymore, the Nazi stuff was one of the many points of that. And that's okay. He can move to another Network or go independent. And I'm with Disney/Maker on that front, they have all the right to drop someone who doesn't cater to the audience they want anymore. Youtube fucked up hard because they have to research.
The point here is the media not doing their jobs and research about what is happening or even putting effort on watching the videos, and thus putting PDP in a bad spot and all the "PDP is Anti Semitist" happens.
Then it means that context doesn't matter to media because they want clicks and ad revenue, and the media should be called out on that.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I don't think it was feigning shock. You can try and push the limits of this "fivver" site and genuinely be shocked at the outcome. Do you not wonder what the limits of what you can someone to say for a few bucks? I know I do. It's definitely, at the utmost minimum, interesting to see what they'll do.
Maybe to the western bourgeoisie.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Haha, is this an attempt to class shame based on the privilege of being able to pay someone a few bucks to make a video? There was a dude in a Jesus costume willing to say "Hitler did nothing wrong"
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