Clay Davis
Member
HD classics 2.0.
VGLeaks: Details multiple devkits evolution of Orbis
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
HD classics 2.0.
EmperorLawlight
Banned
In any case, no big deal - I'll have to keep my PS3 instead of retiring it when I get the PS4.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
Ultra-HD classics.
You still can't
You can have a move engine transferring data from ram to esram without the CPU having to wait, but it still has to travel over the same bus as everything else. So if the CPU wants some data it'll be sharing that bandwidth. It has advantages in allowing more processing time, so more efficiency in the GPU, but doesn't magically give you more bandwidth.
And why are people being negative about a small drop in orbis speeds? 176GB is still very high and only 16GB less than the previous rumour.
phosphor112
Banned
They can't just put any publishers game on gaikai. They'd have to do extensive amount of deals on which games can be used where.
The thing to consider though, is how do you get smaller developers developing for psn4? Aim for a base of almost nil? compared to 70million +?
And basically eradicate PSN's PS3 catalogue access from PS4 too. For a whlie anyway.
It's a difficult one. But I'd take on the losses, untill a solution exists. Personally, I think BC will apply to a lot more people due to psn content.
But of course, it's not my business.
That's what I was suggesting in 'migrating more and more content'. It won't be day one, the whole catalog is there. It'll probably start fairly small and be a growing amount over time as they cut those deals.
systemfehler
Member
What I wonder if the memory will be GDDR5 is that the Hynix roadmap only shows GDDR5 with 4Gb density in 5, 6 and 7 Gbps modules which means that 176GB/s bandwidth is not available only:
5Gbps: 160GB/s (at either 1.5V or 1.35 - this would actually go from eg. 30W to 24.3W)
6Gbps: 192GB/s (if we take 30W from before the increase at this speed would be 32.7W)
7Gbps: ...
Furthermore there might be even GDDR5 at those speeds with 1.35V already (Samsung). Hopefully I will get at least a PM by somebody who can explain that to me. Honestly I don't care that much about the specifications just why certain things are not possible.
5Gbps: 160GB/s (at either 1.5V or 1.35 - this would actually go from eg. 30W to 24.3W)
6Gbps: 192GB/s (if we take 30W from before the increase at this speed would be 32.7W)
7Gbps: ...
Furthermore there might be even GDDR5 at those speeds with 1.35V already (Samsung). Hopefully I will get at least a PM by somebody who can explain that to me. Honestly I don't care that much about the specifications just why certain things are not possible.
Clay Davis
Member
hehe. just imagine 4k hd classics.
very true. will be interesting to see what they do. hardware bc might be out, but I'm sure they could try software bc.
I hope the smoothing option for PS1 games is just as good as the one in PS2 for Orbis 
I was a wee bit disappointed while playing PS1 games in PS3 because I did not notice a difference when smoothing is on.
Anyways, I can't wait for the official specs and tech demos/games to be revealed.
I was a wee bit disappointed while playing PS1 games in PS3 because I did not notice a difference when smoothing is on.
Anyways, I can't wait for the official specs and tech demos/games to be revealed.
Clay Davis
Member
I hope the smoothing option for PS1 games is just as good as the one in PS2 for Orbis
I was a wee bit disappointed while playing PS1 games in PS3 because I did not notice a difference when smoothing is on.
Anyways, I can't wait for the official specs and tech demos/games to be revealed.
do you really believe orbis will offer ps2 bc? I can't see it personally, if anything they'll ramp up their ps2 classics release and leave it at that or imclude it in their ps plus offering.
Well, the trick is - at what time something travels over the bus.
phosphor112
Banned
I honestly think PS3 BC will be on there.
I do. Like how PS1 was to the PS3, I would say the PS2 is now far too removed from PS4 for a remake to have an impact. May as well chuck in an emulator for an extra bullet point on the box.
There's not much reason NOT to support PS2 classics on PSN, I agree disc isn't likely to happen either.Clay Davis said:
For PS3 - I could potentially see PSN exclusives trickling in over time (DD only has that option with updates), but not anything retail. But yea, HD++ remakes or whatever.
Clay Davis
Member
I don't know, seems like wishful thinking to me. I hope you're right though. I have a pretty large ps2 collection that is would be put to be good use if it did offer bc.
this is much more likely in my opinion. continue with the ps2 classic releases via psn and maybe even throw it into the plus offering to make it more value for money like they did with minis and ps1 games this gen.
It could well be 6 Gbps memory that is slightly underclocked. E.g. if they figured out that 176 GB/s is "enough" and want to save power.
If you look at the calculations I did earlier in the thread, 176 GB/s still offers significantly more bandwidth/FLOP than recent AMD GPUs (even accounting for CPU BW usage)
I honestly think it won't. But I'm rooting for
you
It just makes life that much easier... on the odd afternoon you want to play something...
Clay Davis
Member
like wipeout hd + fury.
man, I'll be pissed if I can't play it on orbis. so pissed that I might push over some stacked orbis' in my local electronics store.
googleplex
Member
I actually think they could pull off a PS2 software emulator with the rumored specs. It may not be 100% backwards compatible but it'll be close enough.
JonathanPower
Member
Well, I think it's always better to have as much bandwidth as possible. More bandwidth means better AA and more effects. Maybe the next generation we will finally have some decent AA.
Yeah, 176 GB/s would still be very impressive.
That's a very good choice.
Graphics Horse
Member
That's what PS2 Classics are pretty much.
I'm hoping for Ps3 support but...
It should be relatively easy to port over too - you get 8 cores with ~general purpose performance of the 1 in PS3.Graphics Horse said:
I don't see PS3 or 360 happening without secret hw. And with success of HD-remakes, both parties may be more inclined to try to make extra money there instead of wasting it on BC-hardware.
Clay Davis
Member
indeed. the loss of studio liverpool still hurts. wipeout just won't be the same again.
googleplex
Member
It was my understanding that the "PS2 classics" games had to be re-tooled to run on the PS3. I was taking about full blown PS2 software emulation, that's able to run native PS2 code with graphical upgrades. Much like the PS2 emulator for PC.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
How would HD remakes make sense next gen? PS3 games are already in HD. Next gen isn't going to be about the resolution jump as much as it was last gen. For 95% of games you would have to recreate all the assets and add additional effects to make it better on ps4, but than you defeat the purpose of a low budget cash in and are doing more of a remake.
I could see it making sense on games that came out late in the generation and pushed the consoles to the limits, where they struggled to get close to 30fps(Far Cry 3, AC3, ect), and instead it was remade to 60fps with better AF and AA. But even then I don't see as much of a market for that compared to when we got GoW2 in HD/60fps vs the ps2 version. Who would buy it?
That's what PS2 classics are.googleplex said:
There's full blown emulation, and then there's graphical upgrade hacks. The latter isn't a hallmark of any accurate emulator - commercial or otherwise.
And on that note - compatibility issues + HD Remakes make two very compelling reasons to ignore enhancements in a commercial console emulator.
Well that's why "HD++" monicker. Eg. say Uncharted 720p -> 1080P + 3D Support + AA + FPS upgrade.JohnnySasaki86 said:
Some of these remakes will also stand fine on their own among the native library - kinda like ICO/SOTC remake does on PS3. And let's not forget GOW2 was remade less than 3 years after it came out (which was already inside the PS3 generation to begin with), popular IPs attract buyers.
PC Gaming Sucks
Banned
Of course they could. PS3 (Second Gen Ones) had a PS2 software emulator. They probably won't because they want to sell you the HD remakes.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Enough tech talk! Show me the games....I AM READY!
Clay Davis
Member
I've been ready since December and keighley's misleading hyping of a glimpse at next gen. :/
I fear we've got many months left until we see actual games unless a developer decides to leak some cam footage or something, which is unlikely.
bigboss370
Member
instead of backwards compatibility (which could be too expensive), they could do something simpler. if they stick with bluray, they can have some sort of firmware that recognizes the PS3 game you put in the system, and then offer that same game for free on psn. maybe they won't have all games on psn but they can have alot. once a game is registered you can't do it again on another profile/system. or maybe a 2-3 systems limit.
could that work?
could that work?
systemfehler
Member
I am not saying it is not impressive or enough because I never was in situation where either memory bandwidth or size did matter. Assuming Sony uses a 6Gbps GDDR5 version the only gain they would have is a little more space in the TDP department. The price will stay the same wether they use the full clock rate or decide to downclock and I can't and won't believe that 5W are so important to lose ~10% bandwidth. Sony knew exactly what TDP and bandwidth they target and I even think the move from Steamroller to Jaguar saved them a few Watt so why deviate now?
Edit: Not sure but I guess the GDDR5 will be covered by a heatsink aswell - and if I undertand correctly the bigger heat problem would be the memory controller / voltage controller which would stay at the same 1.5V and downclocking would only affect the chips itself.
And how do you intend to play the ps3 game?
And if they wanted to do that they could had done it with ps2. We got nothing unfortunately.
Am a WipEout HD elite, but hadn't much time to play it within the last fewindeed. the loss of studio liverpool still hurts. wipeout just won't be the same again.
months. Don't be afraid. There will be another WipEout. One that surpasses all
the others.
bigboss370
Member
derp.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
Yea I just don't think that's enough. UC3 is already 3d I think, right? Most high profile FP Sony titles are. GOW:A, Killzone, ect. Anyways 720p --->1080p and a framerate increase is not nearly as big of a deal as it was for GoW2 and Sotc to go from sup 480i to 1080p with 60fps or in Sotc case a locked 30fps from 15fps.
I honestly think if companies started doing a HD++ releases it would be a rip off. I don't see the value it in and I'm not sure it be right. Your basically re-releasing the same product and calling it something else, cause I don't think the average cunsumer will be able to tell the difference.
Edit:
Like I said I think this would be the case for the majority of titles IMO, and theres a few special cases where you could make an argument that certain titles would benifit enough to make a re-release to worth it. MGS4 comes to mind. 1080p would be a huge resolution increase, and 60fps is the way Metal Gear Solid titles should be played.
Kun Aguero
Member
Nah, I read an interview a while back, (sorry don't have the link) the question was asked if the Witcher 3 would be on ps3, the answer was no, because Sony wanted it on the PS4.
H_Prestige
Banned
No. They're software emulated just like ps1 classics. The ps2 emulator just doesn't cover the whole library like the ps1 emulator.
I think Sony will get ps3 BC in somehow. I mean, why did they put psp emulation in the vita instead of just making psp HD collections? And without ps3 support, how does Sony get ps+ subscribers to upgrade to the ps4?
R10Neymarfan
Member
Well the PS3 games better made in 4K then because I doubt many people will want to spend $40-$60 on a game again that really on has a little better IQ. PS2 made sense because it was an upgrade from SD, but the difference between 720p and 1080p can't be seen from the stupid general Joe public of casuals.
The bandwidth change could be related to the moce from Steamroller to Jaguar. I think Jaguar uses less than Steamroller so the 176 may be enough to feed the GPU as planned and adequately supply the CPU.
Oh shit. I had no idea.
Really? Well i'm curious to see how they will achieve that...
Clay Davis
Member
premium model.
basic - no bc, smaller hard drive, no plus.
premium - bc, larger hard drive, 3 months of plus.
Ideally every model would have backwards compatibility.
Clay Davis
Member
definitely, but if they feel the costs are too high to offer it in all models, then a premium model where they can charge more to help offset the cost of bc would be preferred to no bc at all.
Are you saying there is bc?
Psychotext
Member
The problem with only premium models having something like that is that they'll never integrate the PS3 games properly into their web store / operating system (for PSN games etc). Would be a crying shame.