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[Reiko]

Not necessarily. As it happened with the PS3, if I'm not mistaken. Sony nerfed some specs in the last minute, for some reason.

So, MS could have nerfed them to keep prices low, or by other reasons.



And Kaz said they'd let MS do the first move. Haha, oh man.

The thought of MS trolling Sony to pump out the best hardware while pricing themselves out of the market is hilarious. Sony took the bait once, will they take it again? Bad on Sony, good for us gamers.

Either this actually happened, or is coincidence.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Actually...wasn't it the opposite for both. Early plans for 360 was 256mb RAM, and Sony was NOT going to have a GPU in their system at all.

They both increased RAM to 512 and Sony added a GPU at the last minute.

MS added the extra RAM because of Epic, yes, and I'm not sure about the PS3's GPU (which sound weird because how the hell would it have worked), what I do know is that Sony nerfed something before release.

The thought of MS trolling Sony to pump out the best hardware while pricing themselves out of the market is hilarious. Sony took the bait once, will they take it again?

But the circumstances are different now. If the rumor is true, the PS4 is more similar to a PC than the PS3 ever was. If MS is actually doing using that tactic on Sony, the PS4 might have advantages that gamers (maybe even average Joe gamers?) might notice. Will MS actually risk it?

 

[Karak]

The thought of MS trolling Sony to pump out the best hardware while pricing themselves out of the market is hilarious. Sony took the bait once, will they take it again? Bad on Sony, good for us gamers.

Either this actually happened, or is coincidence.

Oh its a game for sure. But I don't know if either group would do that and the tech isn't high enough to warrant pricing either of them out of the game. Neither are super expensive uber systems to say the least. Not that they won't charge a premium just that they don't have to price themselves out of the market.

 

[AgentP]

Actually...wasn't it the opposite for both. Early plans for 360 was 256mb RAM, and Sony was NOT going to have a GPU in their system at all.

They both increased RAM to 512 and Sony added a GPU at the last minute.

That is not possible, unless by last minute you means 2 years.

 

[shandy706]

MS added the extra RAM because of Epic, yes, and I'm not sure about the PS3's GPU (which sound weird because how the hell would it have worked), what I do know is that Sony nerfed something before release.

Looking to the past it seems RSX was added as something that was needed (it's been so long it's hard to remember)...and not planned as it ended up. It also seems that it's original specs WERE downgraded. So you may be right in a way there.

That is not possible, unless by last minute you means 2 years.

Obviously I'm talking in the development of their final specifications when combating the 360. It certainly wasn't literally last minute.


I still think it would be silly to think an old dev kit would be less than what we have now or get later.

 

[artist]

The thought of MS trolling Sony to pump out the best hardware while pricing themselves out of the market is hilarious. Sony took the bait once, will they take it again? Bad on Sony, good for us gamers.

Either this actually happened, or is coincidence.

Despite what the specs seem to indicate, it doesnt look like Orbis is that much more expensive, especially after what we keep hearing on Durango as well (custom logic, ESRAM etc.). I dont think the BOM for both would be like 360/PS3.

Also dont forget the bit that we keep hearing so much - MS planning on including Kinect with every box. If anything, I think the pressure is on MS wrt to pricing.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

MS added the extra RAM because of Epic, yes, and I'm not sure about the PS3's GPU (which sound weird because how the hell would it have worked), what I do know is that Sony nerfed something before release.

sony originally wanted to roll with dual cells instead of a gpu or something a long those lines.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Despite what the specs seem to indicate, it doesnt look like Orbis is that much more expensive, especially after what we keep hearing on Durango as well (custom logic, ESRAM etc.). I dont think the BOM for both would be like 360/PS3.

Also dont forget the bit that we keep hearing so much - MS planning on including Kinect with every box. If anything, I think the pressure is on MS wrt to pricing.

We still have to hear how MS plans to move forward in the next-gen with their current dabbling with price subsidies to the customer by offering two-year contracts on X360. This is something that MS may have as a huge advantage, at least in the first year or more.

 

[artist]

We still have to hear how MS plans to move forward in the next-gen with their current dabbling with price subsidies to the customer by offering two-year contracts on X360. This is something that MS may have as a huge advantage, at least in the first year or more.

True. But the subsidized approach is still quite niche and applicable in specific markets. If it catches on, it will definitely be a mammoth win for MS.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

True. But the subsidized approach is still quite niche and applicable in specific markets. If it catches on, it will definitely be a mammoth win for MS.

In specific and generally smaller markets not highly-prized in the first year or two of a generation, sure, it's niche. In the biggest market during a worldwide contraction of the business, North America, no.

 

[Karak]

We still have to hear how MS plans to move forward in the next-gen with their current dabbling with price subsidies to the customer by offering two-year contracts on X360. This is something that MS may have as a huge advantage, at least in the first year or more.

It will be interesting to see if it is even remotely as successful as it was for the 360. Since this will be a new system. Though a christmas system at a super low price is on typical expected credit styles is a big boon, especially as its not forced. Just another option.

 

[artist]

In specific and generally smaller markets not highly-prized in the first year or two of a generation, sure, it's niche. In the biggest market during a worldwide contraction of the business, North America, no.

Just wondering if we have any data available on this?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Just wondering if we have any data available on this?

I read a pretty comprehensive article late last year, but I can't seem to find it ATM. Basically, North America (US+Canada, anyway) is by far the largest market for phone subsidies. Like vast majority of phone purchases are through two-year contracts taking a seven-, six-, or five-hundred dollar item and pushing it down to two-hundred or less, on average.

Here's one article I found real quick. It would be a huge thing, obviously, to offer shiny next-gen platforms at half the upfront price right out of the gate.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

yep, he met with MS soon after that whole ebay stuff and then he deleted or deactivated his twitter account for a while or deleted all his posts.

Whoa. This is the first time I've heard this part of the backstory. When I asked "who is this SuperDAE guy" a few days ago, why was this not part of the info?

So, MS apparently had enough leverage/pressure on the guy to basically exert control over his Twitter posts in the past, and now we're still taking what he says on Twitter as factual, spin-free info?

Personally, I think the moment after he "met with MS" (and presumably reached some sort of settlement to avoid a legal issues) is the moment where he stopped being a real player in the "leak" game. You can't really be "leaking" anything, if the company you're supposedly leaking about knows exactly who you are and especially not if they may have something on you.

 

[3rdamention]

That claim false lol

When I linked the video, I had about 18 thumbs down. After linking it here on GAF, I received about 30 thumbs down in less than an hour. Thumbs down on YT=I've destroyed your mind so badly with thoughts and opinions that hitting that dislike button has help some ease their pain. The comment section is a real treat too. I know a lot of the hate I received on that video came from GAF because people are mentioning the post here.

It was a mistake. I apologize to those that were hurt over a simple video. I like it here at GAF and will try and do better with actually posting my thoughts instead of linking a few of my videos.

Dude dont sweat it. some people on GAF overreact to everything. Just look at the front page today and the reaction to all the leaks. It is like a Mayan Zombie Apocolypse is coming and everyone is freaking out over one bit of leaked info or another.


Now it seems like some people are conditioned to flip out, before thinking they could just ignore your post and move on. Its cool man!

 

[TheOddOne]

The guy has been talking ages about Kotaku putting up that article. Where the buck is it then?

 

[Reiko]

Whoa. This is the first time I've heard this part of the backstory. When I asked "who is this SuperDAE guy" a few days ago, why was this not part of the info?

So, MS apparently had enough leverage/pressure on the guy to basically exert control over his Twitter posts in the past, and now we're still taking what he says on Twitter as factual, spin-free info?

Personally, I think the moment after he "met with MS" (and presumably reached some sort of settlement to avoid a legal issues) is the moment where he stopped being a real player in the "leak" game. You can't really be "leaking" anything, if the company you're supposedly leaking about knows exactly who you are and especially not if they may have something on you.

And do you consider MTW a MS shill since he leaked the real Halo 4 in a barn?

The guy has been talking ages about Kotaku putting up that article. Where the buck is it then?

He said it's coming. Unless he's doing a terrible Hideki Kamiya impression.

 

[Proxy]

And do you consider MTW a MS shill since he leaked the real Halo 4 in a barn?




He said it's coming. Unless he's doing a terrible Hideki Kamiya impression.

Don't see how that would prove he isn't a MS shill.

 

[artist]

I read a pretty comprehensive article late last year, but I can't seem to find it ATM. Basically, North America (US+Canada, anyway) is by far the largest market for phone subsidies. Like vast majority of phone purchases are through two-year contracts taking a seven-, six-, or five-hundred dollar item and pushing it down to two-hundred or less, on average.

Here's one article I found real quick. It would be a huge thing, obviously, to offer shiny next-gen platforms at half the upfront price right out of the gate.

Thanks but thats only partially relevant. It's a completely different segment though.

I know some of the carriers here in Canada were successful (to an extent) using the subsidy model on the 360, but that's hardly useful data.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

MS added the extra RAM because of Epic, yes, and I'm not sure about the PS3's GPU (which sound weird because how the hell would it have worked), what I do know is that Sony nerfed something before release.

From what I remember the only thing they nerfed before release was the RSX clock speed. From 550mhz to 500mhz. To this day that clock speed has never been offically confirmed though.(i dont think). Its still kinda shrouded in secrecy.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Thanks but thats only partially relevant. It's a completely different segment though.

I know some of the carriers here in Canada were successful (to an extent) using the subsidy model on the 360, but that's hardly useful data.

In a thread based on flaky information, it's the best I can give. I'm just pointing out that the average consumer in North America, more than any other region, and one that happens to be the most valuable one for video game consoles, is already accustomed to the contract-based subsidy, even preferring it. Taking that approach to another high-priced consumer electronic seems very big, especially when there's a possibility that the competition does not offer such a direct deal. We were talking about cost to consumer, since it's highly likely that these new machines will be losing money upfront, even at a relatively high price. The contract is appealing to both consumer and producer since it allows software purchases to be made much more quickly and that's where the real money comes from.

 

[artist]

In a thread based on flaky information, it's the best I can give. I'm just pointing out that the average consumer in North America, more than any other region, and one that happens to be the most valuable one for video game consoles, is already accustomed to the contract-based subsidy, even preferring it. Taking that approach to another high-priced consumer electronic seems very big, especially when there's a possibility that the competition does not offer such a direct deal. We were talking about cost to consumer, since it's highly likely that these new machines will be losing money upfront, even at a relatively high price. The contract is appealing to both consumer and producer since it allows software purchases to be made much more quickly and that's where the real money comes from.

I know the subsidy model and it's viability to the vendors. Just because it has worked in one segment doesnt necessarily mean it will for other segments as well. It's just like how the 360 found limited success doesnt mean the 720 will do the same, it could be huge for all we know. I'm just saying that since the subsidy model for consoles is not a proven success, it is a risky basket to put your eggs in.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I'm just saying that since the subsidy model for consoles is not a proven success, it is a risky basket to put your eggs in.

Not really. It's not like MS wouldn't be offering it at a standard 'full' price as well. If this is an option that one platform has right off the bat and the other does not, it's going to be a huge win, even from a marketing viewpoint because they can then claim a lower entry point, just as the cheaper core pack for the X360 allowed them all through this generation. There's zero risk, really, with the requirement being only a financial capability to offer such a deal, MS, even more than Sony, can offer this as they do now with the current system. In a bad worldwide economy where price sensitivity is a bigger factor than before, and consumers are increasingly moving toward mobile as an alternative to consoles for gaming, this is a potentially big thing.

 

[artist]

Not really. It's not like MS wouldn't be offering it at a standard 'full' price as well. If this is an option that one platform has right off the bat and the other does not, it's going to be a huge win, even from a marketing viewpoint because they can then claim a lower entry point, just as the cheaper core pack for the X360 allowed them all through this generation. There's zero risk, really, with the requirement being only a financial capability to offer such a deal, MS, even more than Sony, can offer this as they do now with the current system. In a bad worldwide economy where price sensitivity is a bigger factor than before, and consumers are increasingly moving toward mobile as an alternative to consoles for gaming, this is a potentially big thing.

The point of contention was that MS facing pricing pressure. If the subsidy model is not proven then it's hardly a reason for removing said pricing pressure.

Out of the 70-80M consoles sold this gen, how many were sold in the subsidy model? Are those numbers + the numbers MS is projecting internally enough to say reduce their price hypothetically from $499 to $399 for a standalone, contract-free unit?

 

[Nealand Liquor]

How many GAMECUBE's?

Whats the DBZ power of these?

I like being goofy and all for kidding around, but fuck, do we have to post this exact same shit in every single tech thread?
Not to poop on everyone's pizza party, but isn't anyone else tired with repeating the same damn joke over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?

 

[Karak]

I like being goofy and all for kidding around, but fuck, do we have to post this exact same shit in every single tech thread?
Not to poop on everyone's pizza party, but isn't anyone else tired with repeating the same damn joke over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again?

And over and over.

Yes.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

The point of contention was that MS facing pricing pressure. If the subsidy model is not proven then it's hardly a reason for removing said pricing pressure.

How is this not a factor in pricing when you've got a greater opportunity to sell units due having more options with another model in which to sell? Is it really that MS is under greater pressure than Sony to worry about costs given their current relative financial situations? The model is proven and sound, else it wouldn't be the majority's way to buy a phone here. Yes, I know phones and consoles are different, but there's not much I can see that would need more consideration when giving consumers an second option to lop off a huge chunk of cost upfront.

MS has only tested this model recently, at the end of the generation, and not when cost is a much bigger factor for the potential adopter at and following launch. That they widened their offering later to more than just MS stores says it's got some traction.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

From what I remember the only thing they nerfed before release was the RSX clock speed.

PS3 also lost one HDMI port, two ethernet ports and two USB ports.

 

[artist]

How is this not a factor in pricing when you've got a greater opportunity to sell units due having more options with another model in which to sell? Is it really that MS is under greater pressure than Sony to worry about costs given their current relative financial situations? The model is proven and sound, else it wouldn't be the majority's way to buy a phone here. Yes, I know phones and consoles are different, but there's not much I can see that would need more consideration when giving consumers an second option to lop off a huge chunk of cost upfront.

MS has only tested this model recently, at the end of the generation, and not when cost is a much bigger factor for the potential adopter at and following launch. That they widened their offering later to more than just MS stores says it's got some traction.

I'm not denying that it's a factor, I'm say how big? And how will it influence MS's pricing strategy?

For example this;

Out of the 70-80M consoles sold this gen, how many were sold in the subsidy model? Are those numbers + the numbers MS is projecting internally enough to say reduce their price hypothetically from $499 to $399 for a standalone, contract-free unit?

Point you seem to forget is MS is planning to include Kinect where as Sony isnt.

 

[Karak]

How is this not a factor in pricing when you've got a greater opportunity to sell units due having more options with another model in which to sell? Is it really that MS is under greater pressure than Sony to worry about costs given their current relative financial situations? The model is proven and sound, else it wouldn't be the majority's way to buy a phone here. Yes, I know phones and consoles are different, but there's not much I can see that would need more consideration when giving consumers an second option to lop off a huge chunk of cost upfront.

MS has only tested this model recently, at the end of the generation, and not when cost is a much bigger factor for the potential adopter at and following launch. That they widened their offering later to more than just MS stores says it's got some traction.

FYI. For what its worth. From the outside you guys seem to be talking about different things. You are talking about offering a floating point purchase available to purchasers as a credit option with no further changes to anything. He is talking about that somehow impacting the originals actual price point which I never saw you connect. That is at least one of the disconnects that somehow got added in there. But the conversation seems to sway from point to point. So I could be wrong.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

And over and over.

Yes.

Ok. Just checking.

 

[Karak]

Ok. Just checking.

There is not much that can be done for awhile. That is just sort of how its going to go. Any kind of true tech discussion usually does get buried in "But it won't do BLAH". Regardless of gen, regardless of system. What does make me smile a bit is the same jokes being used generation to generation. Oldies but goldies I guess.

 

[Kun Aguero]

sony originally wanted to roll with dual cells instead of a gpu or something a long those lines.

Didn't Sony try to build their own gpu, but basically got in above their heads/fucked it up, hence having to go to Nvidia quite late (relatively) in development?

 

[Perkel]

Didn't Sony try to build their own gpu, but basically got in above their heads/fucked it up, hence having to go to Nvidia quite late (relatively) in development?

No one know it.

 

[Biggzy]

sony originally wanted to roll with dual cells instead of a gpu or something a long those lines.

That's what was rumored. It would make sense because why else would Sony rush out to Nvidia and give them a really tight schedule to design a GPU. If it was true, it's a good job they abandoned it because Sony would have risked 3rd party publishers and developers refusing to develop for PS3.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

Didn't Sony try to build their own gpu, but basically got in above their heads/fucked it up, hence having to go to Nvidia quite late (relatively) in development?

Thats just a bunch of speculation. No one knows for sure what really happened. I think originally the story was that very early in development they had this idea to have a second "cell" for GPU work- probably modified, then it was scrapped(I read this story back in early 2005).

I'm pretty sure through a combination of RSX "underachieving" in some people eyes, and the effect of the "telephone game" that the story has changed over the years to the point where theres this "misconception" that RSX was added on at the last second. I'm pretty sure that the Cell as a gpu idea didn't get very far past the pre planning/production idea stage. RSX was very current techwise, and was ahead of the market(when PS3 was supposed to launch in 2005. It was delayed 1-2 times? which btw never had anything to do with RSX, but Cell and Bluray laser manufacturing problems). It was more of a case of Xenos and AMD being a bit ahead of nvidia at the time, or just more prepared and ready for unified architecture, than RSX being "outdated". nvidia didn't launch there geforce 8xxx series with unified architecture tell 2007, and PS3 and RSX were supposed to launch in 2005.

PS3 also lost one HDMI port, two ethernet ports and two USB ports.

True, but no one really cared about those things, most just wanted a cheaper console. Plus I was refering to the internal hardware "graphics" specs that were nerfed, as the previous post was talking about graphics and what not.

 

[mrklaw]

It's not really subsidy though like with a phone, where you are paying for continued service. This would be more like extended credit. Put a deposit down and 48 regular monthly payments and the console is yours, for a grand total of 50% more than it would have cost you to buy it in the first place.

 

[KidBeta]

Can't believe the super trolls are getting people to believe them we know superdae is full of shit and until this other guy reveals something he is suspect to

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Can't believe the super trolls are getting people to believe them we know superdae is full of shit and until this other guy reveals something he is suspect to

Super trolls? You can believe whatever you want junior.

Doesn't mean the entire picture shouldn't be drawn so people can reach their own conclusions.

 

[IMBored]

It's not really subsidy though like with a phone, where you are paying for continued service. This would be more like extended credit. Put a deposit down and 48 regular monthly payments and the console is yours, for a grand total of 50% more than it would have cost you to buy it in the first place.

Wouldn't you have to pass a credit check if they went that way? Electronic stores in my country do this up to 6 or 12 months, sometimes without interests.

 

[KidBeta]

Super trolls? You can believe whatever you want junior.

Doesn't mean the entire picture shouldn't be drawn so people can reach their own conclusions.

Yeah there trolls and until they show up with any substantial evidence that's all they will be , I can tell you now they will never leak anything of substance and will keep stringing you guys along just like superdae.

Vgleaks is the only confirmed leak we know and until someone says more then wrong and provides real evidence that's what we are going to have to work off

The again this thread is a great display of confirmation bias , how else would people believe outlandish rumors with no basis in reality , whoever believes these two actually have any real insider information isn't the sharpest shovel in the ditch. It happens every generation and people believe it time and time again , I guess some people don't learn.

 

[Reiko]

Yeah there trolls and until they show up with any substantial evidence that's all they will be , I can tell you now they will never leak anything of substance and will keep stringing you guys along just like superdae.

Vgleaks is the only confirmed leak we know and until someone says more then wrong and provides real evidence that's what we are going to have to work off

The again this thread is a great display of confirmation bias , how else would people believe outlandish rumors with no basis in reality , whoever believes these two actually have any real insider information isn't the sharpest shovel in the ditch. It happens every generation and people believe it time and time again , I guess some people don't learn.

Substantial evidence?

Nothing posted in this entire thread is official.

 

[KidBeta]

Substantial evidence?

Nothing posted in this entire thread is official.

The vgleaks information has been confirmed to be from a Durango summit last year in feb that's as offical as we have ATM. Things are unlikely to change majorly from that if they want to release this year or even mid next year. They probably need around 1 year to ship a fully locked in design, probably more. Nothing would have changed majorly between now and then the final specification has probably been locked down since before 2012. To think otherwise is foolish.

 

[PhatSaqs]

The vgleaks information has been confirmed to be from a Durango summit last year in feb that's as offical as we have ATM.

So MS confirmed those?

 

[KidBeta]

So MS confirmed those?

People with more information and sources then the super trolls could ever wish for have confirmed. And lots of them too.MS will never confirm something like that.

I bet the troll twins love the attention your giving them over noting

 

[Karak]

So MS confirmed those?

You beat. They sent an email out I got it.

 

[jaypah]

People with more information and sources then the super trolls could ever wish for have confirmed. And lots of them too.MS will never confirm something like that.

I bet the troll twins love the attention your giving them over noting

you act like people are posting pics of their pre-order slips for Durango based on these tweets. All I see is people in a tech discussion thread talking about tech and speculating. Why is that rubbing you the wrong way? I'm just trying to see the logic in this.

I don't dig through post histories so I'm not accusing you of batting for one team or another, I'm just genuinely curious as to why people discussing rumors is causing you to constantly react like this. There's only so many ways that you can scream "IT'S ALL A LIE!!" and you've pretty much exhausted all of them.

edit: you know what captain? Do your thang. It's not my place to question why you post the way that you do. <3

 

[Karak]

you act like people are posting pics of their pre-order slips for Durango based on these tweets. All I see is people in a tech discussion thread talking about tech and speculating. Why is that rubbing you the wrong way? I'm just trying to see the logic in this.

I don't dig through post histories so I'm not accusing you of batting for one team or another, I'm just genuinely curious as to why people discussing rumors is causing you to constantly react like this. There's only so many ways that you can scream "IT'S ALL A LIE!!" and you've pretty much exhausted all of them.

Read my post a bit above. Its par for the course in these gens. We will have thread lords FAR worse as we get closer. Its always the same and happens in all these threads. One mans rumour is another man's fact ones man's gulf is another mans small difference(sounds like a personal problem!). Discussion is batted down and then switched around all the time. Sad but a fact of life.

Got to go MS confirming all true rumors on MSNBC RIGHT NOW!

NOW. Some cool stuff. Though not 100% the Move engines. Is the audio chip and what it may do and the scaler planes. Its all turning out to be pretty interesting stuff.

 

[KidBeta]

you act like people are posting pics of their pre-order slips for Durango based on these tweets. All I see is people in a tech discussion thread talking about tech and speculating. Why is that rubbing you the wrong way? I'm just trying to see the logic in this.

I don't dig through post histories so I'm not accusing you of batting for one team or another, I'm just genuinely curious as to why people discussing rumors is causing you to constantly react like this. There's only so many ways that you can scream "IT'S ALL A LIE!!" and you've pretty much exhausted all of them.

Because it is up to the person making a claim to provide evidence and not the person who says the claim is false, it rubs me the wrong way because those guys post obvious bullshit and then it gets parroted as gospel truth.

I believe in looking and things objectively and basing truth on that and also presented evidence it feels like people lose there ability to look at anything in a rational manner once it becomes something like next gen console rumors and that is something I'm trying to help stop.

But the only evidence I have heard of in favour of these guys does not present itself in anyway as being high enough for us to trust them on a topic where not many people know the real answer.

They did something like vgleaks and posted a lot of detailed information instead of just giving coy answers to claims that they are wrong I might believe them , but until then I do not see any reason to.

So yes I am practically saying he is lying in a nicer way because thats what all the evidence points to and fanboys don't want to see this, I want both consoles to be powerful and well made but sometimes it gets really out of hand.

 

[Deuterium]

People with more information and sources then the super trolls could ever wish for have confirmed. And lots of them too.MS will never confirm something like that.

I bet the troll twins love the attention your giving them over noting

LOL. So, Please name these sources of information? So far, the unofficial rumors, speculations and leaks seemed to be coming from VGLeaks and Edge...which have a vested interest in generating traffic and all sorts of fan-boy excitement.

Can you name a single...and I mean ONE SINGLE FRIGGIN' source that is officially a Manufacturer's representative, or Developer/Publisher that has gone on the record, using their name and title?