VGTech's COD Cold War 120FPS mode comparison

I assume they're as stumped as we are and want to try to have a coherent explanation for why the two machines are performing so comparably, but with noticeable occasional points of divergence, before putting anything out.

Their reputation is built entirely on knowing the how and why with game performance.

Between dynamic res, next gen visual effects and Cerny seemingly javinf performed some kind of magic trick with the PS5, nailing down exactly what the hell is going on right now is probably a bit of a nightmare, and they won't want to be proven wrong down the road by rushing something out.

They don't need to do guesswork or conjecture as with the DMC5 video downplaying and talking about "tools" or "bugs"...

They should just relay the facts and let the results stand on their own (but we know they can't do that - they shape narratives). If there is cognitive dissonance regarding the unexpected performance between the two systems that has more to do with a good job done by MS's marketing dept. hyping their hardware up and building the power narrative (with the media parroting it). That it is blowing up on MS face right now doesn't mean DF should damage control for them by desperately seeking an "explanation". Moreover; they'll never get that right... they have no access to PS5's APU die make-up, nor Sony's internal benchs, theoreticals etc etc... The only thing these folks are praying for right now is to get at least one dev on public record, any dev from a reputable studio to agree with them on "immature" dev tools in order to double down and run with that narrative (aka wait for x amount of time - literally "wait till E3" redux). Kinda pathetic but not unexpected... these folk are one of the most notorious puppet masters of the console war who profit from it and make a living out of it.
 
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They don't need to do guesswork or cojecture as with the DMC5 video downplaying and talking about tools or "bugs"...

They should just relay the facts and let the results stand on their own (but we know they can't do that - they shape narratives). If there is cognitive dissonance regarding the unexpected performance between the two systems that has more to do with a good job done by MS hyping their hardware up, and building the power narrative (with the media parroting it). That's it's blowing up on MS face right now doesn't mean DF should damage control for them by desperately seeking an explanation. Moreover; they'll never get that right... they have no access to PS5's APU die make-up, nor Sony's internal benchs, theoreticals etc etc... The only thing these folks are praying right now is to get at least one dev on public record, any dev from a reputable studio to agree with them on "immature" dev tools to run with that narrative (aka wait for x amount of time - literally the "wait till E3" redux). Kinda pathetic but not unexpected... these folk are one of the most notorious puppet masters of the console war who profit from it and make a living out of it.

See, I agree that they have a slight Xbox bias, but they're not PR mouthpieces, even if they do tend to play nice sometimes to keep getting access to insiders.

I genuinely think it's just going to be harder to actually nail down things like resolution this gen. Probably most games will use dynamic res, upscaling and reconstruction techniques to give a better kmage without the overheads, and it's likely going to mean a much more involved job of picking apart screenshots and clips, looking for different things every time.

Add to that the fact no one was really expecting parity on multiplats, let alomg PS5 actually performing better in places, and that's got to be causing them to be scrutinising their results far more than usual.
 
Digital Foundry silence is getting pretty suspicious tbh. Well, thankfully we have others in the field now.
Yep. Exactly. It's a deafening silence. It tells you everything you need to know about them. Again when things were not so good for PS in many cases in the past (AC Unity, TLOUR on Pro or even BF1), they were so eager to churn articles after articles about it. But now they have technical problems.
 
Yep. Exactly. It's a deafening silence. It tells you everything you need to know about them. Again when things were not so good for PS in many cases in the past (AC Unity, TLOUR on Pro or even BF1), they were so eager to churn articles after articles about it. But now they have technical problems.

Those are reputation damaging remarks you are making about someone else's living hood.

Be a respectful person and at least consider this amount of workload only happens once or twice per decade. They increased their numbers but so have the number of consoles. Their format requires capture, analysis, editing and argument points. Plus a fully written article on eurogamer.

You are used to the low-accuracy quick-fire reactions that plague the journalism industry. That ain't them. Deal with it.
 
Digital foundry is editing Frame by frame for screen tearing. They'll need a better solution for games with 60+. It's coming out today. People relax. It's not some conspiracy.
 
lol some of you. I'm guessing obviously but i feel Digital foundry may be doing one long video, covering different games, as oppose to 1 vid for each game.
They are not the only tech comparisons sites that havent released many comparisons yet.
 
lol some of you. I'm guessing obviously but i feel Digital foundry may be doing one long video, covering different games, as oppose to 1 vid for each game.
They are not the only tech comparisons sites that havent released many comparisons yet.

i am not going to conspiracy theories lengths here but its a bit strange they are taking so long, they did pump out the xbox videos a few weeks back like crazy, this feels like an eternity atm waiting for them.
 
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lol some of you. I'm guessing obviously but i feel Digital foundry may be doing one long video, covering different games, as oppose to 1 vid for each game.
They are not the only tech comparisons sites that havent released many comparisons yet.
Indeed, and look what happened to those that did quick first impression videos.

NXGamer is up there in quality with DF, and the amount of vitriol and contempt he received, even just here, for his AC Valhalla initial contact video was shameful.
 
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Those are reputation damaging remarks you are making about someone else's living hood.

Be a respectful person and at least consider this amount of workload only happens once or twice per decade. They increased their numbers but so have the number of consoles. Their format requires capture, analysis, editing and argument points. Plus a fully written article on eurogamer.

You are used to the low-accuracy quick-fire reactions that plague the journalism industry. That ain't them. Deal with it.
Unfortunately for them what I said is still true. About their technical problems, they could have done an article without framerate analysis, like focusing on the graphical differences, the resolution etc. Hey, Alex last article about Watchdogs (PC vs Xbox) hasn't got any framerate analysis of the Xbox versions, only graphical aspects of it!

 
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Indeed, and look what happened to those that did quick first impression videos.

NXGamer is up there in quality with DF, and the amount of vitriol and contempt he received, even just here, for his AC Valhalla initial contact video was shameful.
Yeah i dont think you really want to go down that road, with the way DF is talked about on here, and the way the likes of John were hounded off the forum because he didnt bash Gears 5 enough.
 
Yeah i dont think you really want to go down that road, with the way DF is talked about on here, and the way the likes of John were hounded off the forum because he didnt bash Gears 5 enough.
I'd forgotten about that! Yeah, that was a really bad day for this forum.

Such a shame too, John makes my favourite DF content, and I'd have loved the opportunity to ask him questions about them occasionally. Bloody emotionally incontinent fanboys.
 
i am not going to conspiracy theories lengths here but its a bit strange they are taking so long, they did pump out the xbox videos a few weeks back like crazy, this feels like an eternity atm waiting for them.
Really want to see some Dirt 5 comparisons, but we have seen nothing. Even from just random people on Youtube. Its a bit weird
 
Alex last article about Watchdogs (PC vs Xbox) hasn't got any framerate analysis of the Xbox versions, only graphical aspects of it!


Its goes to show the time and conditions they are having to deal with, in order to upload something of interest. The PS5 only arrived at his home after the article as well. These guys are not working from the office.

Its more mature adult and civil to assume they cannot maintain the punctuality of the non-launch periods, than to assume its a conspiracy. Defaulting to the conspiracy theories requires very little brain cells. Both you and I know you have more than just a few.
 
DF say on Dirt 5 have seven console versions with multiple modes to pixel count and analyse, give them a break.
 
lol some of you. I'm guessing obviously but i feel Digital foundry may be doing one long video, covering different games, as oppose to 1 vid for each game.
They are not the only tech comparisons sites that havent released many comparisons yet.
It is one video per game.

Alex will probably release the AC today.
 
Yeah i dont think you really want to go down that road, with the way DF is talked about on here, and the way the likes of John were hounded off the forum because he didnt bash Gears 5 enough.

That isn't why he left the forum. This has been gone over before and the issue wasn't that he didn't bash Gears 5 in that thread, it was that he seemed to be reading off a script for it and the evidence was pretty damning. But since that argument ended in everyone pretty friendly and amicable it's besides the point and again NOT why he left.
 
They don't need to do guesswork or conjecture as with the DMC5 video downplaying and talking about "tools" or "bugs"...

They should just relay the facts and let the results stand on their own (but we know they can't do that - they shape narratives). If there is cognitive dissonance regarding the unexpected performance between the two systems that has more to do with a good job done by MS's marketing dept. hyping their hardware up and building the power narrative (with the media parroting it). That it is blowing up on MS face right now doesn't mean DF should damage control for them by desperately seeking an "explanation". Moreover; they'll never get that right... they have no access to PS5's APU die make-up, nor Sony's internal benchs, theoreticals etc etc... The only thing these folks are praying for right now is to get at least one dev on public record, any dev from a reputable studio to agree with them on "immature" dev tools in order to double down and run with that narrative (aka wait for x amount of time - literally "wait till E3" redux). Kinda pathetic but not unexpected... these folk are one of the most notorious puppet masters of the console war who profit from it and make a living out of it.

See, I agree that they have a slight Xbox bias, but they're not PR mouthpieces, even if they do tend to play nice sometimes to keep getting access to insiders.

I genuinely think it's just going to be harder to actually nail down things like resolution this gen. Probably most games will use dynamic res, upscaling and reconstruction techniques to give a better kmage without the overheads, and it's likely going to mean a much more involved job of picking apart screenshots and clips, looking for different things every time.

Add to that the fact no one was really expecting parity on multiplats, let alomg PS5 actually performing better in places, and that's got to be causing them to be scrutinising their results far more than usual.

Where does this 'Xbox bias' narrative come from? As far as I know we only have one clear statement of preference by members of DF and it's this one...

"I do not like what Microsoft has brought to the industry and think we'd be better off if they had never entered it. I can throw that aside when writing and present thoughts free of my dislike for them, however, but reading into it as if I actually PREFER the Xbox?! Pure madness." - John Linneman DF

So, tell me about that pro-Xbox bias again? I can trust that these guys are representing the facts regardless of their personal preferences (as much as that is humanly possible), so why are there so many Gaffers that promote this nonsense?
 
Seriously I don't understand the hate for DF. They might not be 100% accurate all the time but I don't see all the fud and bias some people see here 🤷‍♂️
 
Digital Foundry silence is getting pretty suspicious tbh. Well, thankfully we have others in the field now.

My honest opinion. They probably reached out to the developers for an explanation. After so many months of declaring the XSX as being the more powerful system, they need to explain to their viewers why it falls behind the PS5 in some cases.

That's my guess anyways and if I was in their shoes I would do the same.
 
That isn't why he left the forum. This has been gone over before and the issue wasn't that he didn't bash Gears 5 in that thread, it was that he seemed to be reading off a script for it and the evidence was pretty damning. But since that argument ended in everyone pretty friendly and amicable it's besides the point and again NOT why he left.

what ever he said would always get negative feedback and still does on here. When ever a video said anything positive about Xbox it is always downplayed of accused of being Xbox biased that why he left.
 
what ever he said would always get negative feedback and still does on here. When ever a video said anything positive about Xbox it is always downplayed of accused of being Xbox biased that why he left.

No, there's a specific incident with a specific poster that caused John to leave GAF. I feel like I need to tag someone in who remembers better than me... -Arcadia- -Arcadia- you know what I'm talking about, right?
 
Where is the Valhalla video? Still not out.....

Alex had time to post how it ran at solid 60 on PC though and that's my issue... if Xbox was ahead, he probably wouldn't bring PC into it.... thereis always a red herring when PS does well. Some stupid distraction from the facts.

(I like John BTW, he is fine and seems fair)
 
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No, there's a specific incident with a specific poster that caused John to leave GAF. I feel like I need to tag someone in who remembers better than me... -Arcadia- -Arcadia- you know what I'm talking about, right?

I think that poster was permed if I remember correctly. Not for that exactly but he did get a temp after what he did to John.

I think I found it.

Here you are playing victim again. Oh showing off that you have a bigger dick with your collection that you probably got for free or didn't even pay for with your money? Nobody gives a shit. Your site is biased and it clearly shows. Your name is tied with Digital Foundry, deal with it. If you had any ounce of ethic you would've spoke up but no you can't stand up to your bosses who puts food on your table. For a guy that dissects games, you can't even tell me that AMD's presentation clearly meant RDNA 2 for both consoles? Are you fucking kidding me. Stop being disingenuous. Go play victim on ree where they worship you guys.

Although I made a mistake assuming the user got permed. Must have been somebody else.
 
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My honest opinion. They probably reached out to the developers for an explanation. After so many months of declaring the XSX as being the more powerful system, they need to explain to their viewers why it falls behind the PS5 in some cases.

That's my guess anyways and if I was in their shoes I would do the same.

THIS! Plus I do think they are waiting on a XSX patch that could "fix" this "issue".
 
THIS! Plus I do think they are waiting on a XSX patch that could "fix" this "issue".

Definitely a possibility that the devs told them about a patch that would fix the issues.

I'm pretty sure when the video comes out you will see an explanation on why this is happening. Even if they are running the patched version they need to explain why the previous versions were not running well as they could.
 
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DF aren't biased IMO.

Do they have biases? sure they're people, course they do. Can you discern their biases? To some degree. That doesn't make them biased and their reporting is both awesome and professional.

The reason people see them as biased -- I think -- is because when you are sufficiently invested in a product which competes with another product, then it becomes super important that your product receives no "unfair" slight, and on the other hand that faults in the competing product MUST be held to full account: and by that measure its easy to find fault with them. But by any objective measure they are completely professional and clearly love video games technology.

Now on the issue of "tools" causing the XSX to underperform in high FPS comparisons, which DF seem currently to think is what is likely to be going on, I disagree with them.

The idea that tools, AKA the GDK, was causing problems for XSX coalesced around the time that some games announced XSX ray tracing would be enabled via patch after launch. Given that AFAWK both consoles use the same RT tech, this didn't make much sense technically, and all summer we had been hearing that the GDK was not as easy to use as Sony's API, so that all made sense and seemed reasonable to me

Now the idea that the GDK was causing performance issues for XSX in DMC's 120FPS mode was first aired by DF, I can understand why, but I'm really not convinced. I think they went there because XSX CPU is simply faster than the PS5's and is essentially the same, so it just doesn't make sense on the surface.

My problem is that this is an unsubstantiated leap too far. There may be architectural reasons why PS5's SOC is less troubled by high FPS CPU bound games, e.g. more efficient caching, more offloading to dedicated helper hardware. Also while an immature API may cause optimisation issues, the actual symptoms are related to CPU performance, very specific, and apparently repeatable - which looks very much like hardware. The most parsimonious explanation is that its architectural within the constraints we see. That's not to rule out the GDK as a cause, but we'd need actual evidence to make that jump, and we recently had an interview with a developer, where he was pushed in that direction and he pushed back. Given that developer is working on a 120 FPS game across the consoles he would likely be aware of a defect in the GDK that caused the API to develop performance issues at high frame rates, and would have responded "no comment" - not definitive, but it does not help the cause of "its the tools". If true this doesn't mean the PS5 has a better CPU architecture, non cross-gen games using SMT mode might see XSX performing better at high framerates?

We know the XSX has better paper specs. That does not mean it is the better performing machine -- as an absolute fact -- just that its likely to be. The proof of whether the XSX is superior will be determined by games performance. The evidence so far indicates the two console are equivalent -- a very different situation from that we had with PS4 and XBox one.

The XSX may pull ahead, I think it likely will, but if it does probably not by much, that is also what the evidence is saying! Hopefully for most games the consoles will lock at 60FPS in performance mode and scale resolution, in which case the PS5 will average a bit lower. And whichever way it goes, supporters of both have plenty to be happy about, this approximate equivalence is a good thing.

Looking forward to my PS5 arriving tomorrow, hoping my adapter turns up quick so I can play Star Wars Squadrons on my PSVR with much improved graphics (I'm mon an original PS4 at the mo).
 
Devolved into accusations of bias again? What a surprise. Give it a rest, please. Every single thread. It's so boring. Everyone is biased both towards and against whatever "side" you've picked.

"Digital Foundry are biased towards Sony!"
"Digital Foundry are xbox shills!"

Take a step back and realise how stupid you sound when you start throwing accusations just because they said something you disagree with. Stop connecting dots that aren't there.
 
Devolved into accusations of bias again? What a surprise. Give it a rest, please. Every single thread. It's so boring. Everyone is biased both towards and against whatever "side" you've picked.

"Digital Foundry are biased towards Sony!"
"Digital Foundry are xbox shills!"

Take a step back and realise how stupid you sound when you start throwing accusations just because they said something you disagree with. Stop connecting dots that aren't there.
Yeah they are notoriously impartial . Especially Leadbetter. Where coming all that malice?
 
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Richard & Alex are clearly bias people saying they are not must be blind but these things only show in their words I don't think they will let these feelings affect their work though.
 
Seriously I don't understand the hate for DF. They might not be 100% accurate all the time but I don't see all the fud and bias some people see here 🤷‍♂️
Yeap like when Rick overclocked a RX 5700 XT to 2200Mhz to shows big clocks doesn't support Cerny talk about PS5 high clocks lol

Totally unbiased.

Any baby tech guy will know the example is misleading because the RDNA doesn't support these clocks.

Fact is... all the Rick and Alex narrative about PS5 is being debunked and they don't know what to do anymore.... in that point I really think Linus had a way better attitude than DF... Linus at least admitted his mistakes after do more research.
 
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Yeah they are notoriously impartial . Especially Leadbetter. Where coming all that malice?
Positive Xbox comments are met with "BIAS!"
Positive Sony comments are met with "BIAS!"

It's shits up every thread, and it should be nothing more than a joke at this point but people continue to perpetuate it
 
DF aren't biased IMO.

Do they have biases? sure they're people, course they do. Can you discern their biases? To some degree. That doesn't make them biased and their reporting is both awesome and professional.

giphy.webp
 
Yeap like when Rick overclocked a RX 5700 XT to 2200Mhz to shows big clocks doesn't support Cerny talk about PS5 high clocks lol

Totally unbiased.

Any baby tech guy will know the example is misleading because the RDNA doesn't support these clocks.

Fact is... all the Rick and Alex narrative about PS5 is being debunked and they don't know what to do anymore.... in that point I really think Linus had a way better attitude than DF... Linus at least admitted his mistakes after do more research.

And the rush to put out a list of 120fps games when they only knew of 1 PS5 game that was 120fps because they somehow thought PS5 wasn't capable of 120fps games.

Alex love Ray-tracing but only put out a video about Watch Dog ray-tracing on Xbox Series S/X
 
Well DF have just dropped their AC Valhalla comparison, and it was brutal for XSX precisely because DF are so professional. I knew PS5 was more performant, but the difference here is significant to the point that they opined XSX needs either a patch or a resolution drop.

The difference is so interesting because its contrary to expectations.
 
My honest opinion. They probably reached out to the developers for an explanation. After so many months of declaring the XSX as being the more powerful system, they need to explain to their viewers why it falls behind the PS5 in some cases.

That's my guess anyways and if I was in their shoes I would do the same.

Assuming Series X would be more performant is logical based on raw specs of the GPU. However what they failed to factor in was the degree of uplift (or rather reduction in drag) that the overall system architecture of PS5 offers.

DF's problem, and this goes for most commentators with their roots in the PC community, is that they are used to comparing performance between differently specced components within systems that have basically identical architectures for both hardware and software. The result being that they have a blind-spot when it comes to architectural and API inefficiency as it is a constant in the systems from which their fundamental understanding originates.
 
My honest opinion. They probably reached out to the developers for an explanation. After so many months of declaring the XSX as being the more powerful system, they need to explain to their viewers why it falls behind the PS5 in some cases.

That's my guess anyways and if I was in their shoes I would do the same.

The thing is, DF don't just do framerates and pixel counts. They offer a technical analysis and they like to understand why/how a game is performing or looking. They like to understand what's happening under the hood and present that to their audience.

Sometimes they have to investigate and take educated guesses. Sometimes they put queries to devs, but don't necessarily get the insights they want which sometimes might be down to 'commercial secrecy', not wanting to share your Dev tricks.
 
Devolved into accusations of bias again? What a surprise. Give it a rest, please. Every single thread. It's so boring. Everyone is biased both towards and against whatever "side" you've picked.

"Digital Foundry are biased towards Sony!"
"Digital Foundry are xbox shills!"

Take a step back and realise how stupid you sound when you start throwing accusations just because they said something you disagree with. Stop connecting dots that aren't there.

It's so mind-numbing. How long has it been this bad?
 
Take a step back and realise how stupid you sound when you start throwing accusations just because they said something you disagree with. Stop connecting dots that aren't there.

Digital Foundry was created by Leadbetter and he has a strong MS bias, he has since he was posting over at B3D as Grandmaster. John and the other guy are doing their best and are fair. But the fish rots from the head.
 
Digital Foundry was created by Leadbetter and he has a strong MS bias, he has since he was posting over at B3D as Grandmaster. John and the other guy are doing their best and are fair. But the fish rots from the head.
And yet plenty of people talk about them being biased towards Sony. On the whole it's a professional outlet that reports it as they see it.
 
Digital Foundry was created by Leadbetter and he has a strong MS bias, he has since he was posting over at B3D as Grandmaster. John and the other guy are doing their best and are fair. But the fish rots from the head.

Get a grip FFS.

They are constantly being accused of being shills for the other side by BOTH sides. You can't all be right, but you are all equally deluded.

Put this tedious, embarassing shit to bed.

DF have worked hard for many years and display passion and professionalism for their craft. They have expanded the layperson gamers understanding of technical aspects of games.

Because of the paranoid nonsense you and so many here spew out they are abused and attacked online for simply doing what is their raison d'etre and it does actually get to them. John has talked about the stress of being constantly insulted by crazy fanboys on his social media.

Grow the fuck up, NOW.

This stuff is so out of control, so hysterical and it's leading to ever- more frenzied attacks on a skilled technical analysis outfit who have put out so much excellent (and free!) content over the years, stuff that has helped me and many others to understand games better.
 
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Get a grip FFS.

They are constantly being accused of being shills for the other side by BOTH sides. You can't all be right, but you are all equally deluded.

Put this tedious, embarassing shit to bed.

DF have worked hard for many years and display passion and professionalism for their craft. They have expanded the layperson gamers understanding of technical aspects of games.

Because of the paranoid nonsense you and so many here spew out they are abused and attacked online for simply doing what is their raison d'etre and it does actually get to them. John has talked about the stress of being constantly insulted by crazy fanboys on his social media.

Grow the fuck up, NOW.

This stuff is so out of control, so hysterical and it's leading to ever- more frenzied attacks on a skilled technical analysis outfit who have put out so much excellent (and free!) content over the years, stuff that has helped me and many others to understand games better.

So much truth to this post. I wish they could all SHUT THE FUCK UP once and for all. Fucking hell is this shit annoying.
 
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