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[rodrigolfp]

Then criticize the game for being bad.

Sekiro and Dark Souls are not bad, the opposite in fact, people just don't want to overcome the challenge and play AC tier slop for dozens of hours instead. And they want to turn these games into AC tier slop.

That is exactly we are doing here. Games without easier and harder difficulties are worse games than they could be.

 

[Paasei]

If you find a game too hard, just move on and play something else that does offer you options you desire.

 

[diffusionx]

That is exactly we are doing here. Games without easier and harder difficulties are worse games than they could be.

They're not though. Turning these games into easy mode make them worse. The reasons why we have discussed.

I don't like rogueshit and deckshit games and if I went on here saying Slay the Spire would be better without deck building people on here would call me an idiot and rightfully so. The game is what it is. I just don't buy rogueshit and deckshit games anymore.

 

[rodrigolfp]

They're not though. Turning these games into easy mode make them worse. The reasons why we have discussed.

I don't like rogueshit and deckshit games and if I went on here saying Slay the Spire would be better without deck building people on here would call me an idiot and rightfully so. The game is what it is.

Cool for them. Why would you care?

If I say Elden Ring would be better without summons, it would be true?

 

[Sakura]

99% of the games I've played aren't hard enough to require me to lower the difficulty, and I am hardly a skilled gamer. Difficulty options aren't even something that come to mind when considering a purchase, and I am honestly surprised by the premise of the thread.
When it comes to games like Elden Ring or whatever, the whole point is that you are getting the game because you want or expect a challenge, so why would you want difficulty options? You want that game that became popular because of its difficulty and everyone talks about how much of a challenge it is, just to put it on easy mode? I don't get it.

 

[scydrex]

I don't care if it has difficulty options. Souls don't have it but let you level up. If you find it hard just level up more until you can beat up the game. A game where you can't level up or have options and it's difficult no thanks.

 

[ReBurn]

YouTube is the ultimate easy mode.

 

[HYDE]

Buy the right type of game & genre then research it. Quit being entitled. What's next, come on bruh why is this an RPG? Make it an action game annoying inconsiderate developers. Plenty of the reviews out their cover difficulty etc…

 

[Loomy]

But that means developers are spending extra time and resources redesigning the game that doesn't even fit its vision. Either this will cause further delays and costs to developers or they will have to sacrifice the original vision and instead focus on these other game modes.

If adjusting difficulty means redesigning your game then you need to fire your game director.

 

[Sooner]

If adjusting difficulty means redesigning your game then you need to fire your game director.

Wrong. Games should be balanced to the point where worthwhile difficulty options require everything to be rebalanced.

 

[Dacvak]

I'm on board with whatever the devs feel is appropriate so long as it's been rigorously tested.

DOOM The dark ages didn't feel balanced on its default settings in my opinion, and so having a wealth of difficulty options to fine-tune actually made that experience a lot better.

But for a game like Dark Souls or Cuphead, those feel like the game was very strongly designed around that exact difficulty, and I wouldn't want to play it any other way.

I do miss games that had great balance across a variety of difficulties, though. Viewtiful Joe is a great example, where it has four difficulty options, and each one of them is equally as fun based off of how they're balanced.

 

[GateofD]

Bullshit.
You don't get to determine the vision, the developers do.

And if the developers say "you must be this tall to ride", then you must be this tall to ride.

Games don't need to be for everyone. That includes genres as well as difficulties.

This, games aren't obligated to be beaten by everyone. And you don't deserve to beat every game. No one does.

 

[CrimsonTide]

I am in the "whatever the devs want" camp

Design it how you see fit and if there is no difficulty mode or 5 modes, it's fine. I always go with whatever is "default" or "normal" if there is a difficulty mode.

 

[Loomy]

Wrong. Games should be balanced to the point where worthwhile difficulty options require everything to be rebalanced.

Rebalanced, yes. Not redesigned. At that point you're adjusting numbers, you're not redesigning animations.

 

[JORMBO]

I am ok with whatever the devs want. Souls games are nice since I can grind to make things a bit easier if needed. I never finished Sekiro. It didn't click with me much and tired me out after awhile. I still got a decent amount of gameplay out of it even though I never finished it. I am fine with that since that is what the devs wanted to create.

The only request I would have of devs is to not have too many boring time wasters. Things like very long and difficult run backs are aggrivating. I don't mind if the boss is hard as long as I am getting to spend time learning them rather then spending more time running back to them.

 

[Jesb]

At my age I need a normal or easy difficulty. I don't have the patience for a game that has a deep learning curve or trial and error gameplay. It's why souls likes don't work for me, why I don't have fun playing hollow knight, ect. If I find the game too difficult in the opening hour I'm very likely to just drop the game.

 

[Sticks]

R rkofan87

 

[cash_longfellow]

I don't understand why one of these threads is necessary every day.

 

[CrimsonTide]

At my age I need a normal or easy difficulty. I don't have the patience for a game that has a deep learning curve or trial and error gameplay. It's why souls likes don't work for me, why I don't have fun playing hollow knight, ect. If I find the game too difficult in the opening hour I'm very likely to just drop the game.

Dark Souls is the greatest game ever made and this coming from someone who doesnt do hard modes and frankly do not want punishment for punishment sake.

Took me until 2019 to play Dark Souls and really give it a try, despite owning it on 360 since launch in 2011. But it became my comfort food. I am far from a master at it, but should I want, I can be OP in minutes. But it still challenges me and will humble me for thinking I am "good" at it too.

Never done insane style SL1 runs and deathless and likely never will, that is something I would not have the patience for. SL1 maybe, but deathless is a hell no.

 

[cash_longfellow]

At my age I need a normal or easy difficulty. I don't have the patience for a game that has a deep learning curve or trial and error gameplay. It's why souls likes don't work for me, why I don't have fun playing hollow knight, ect. If I find the game too difficult in the opening hour I'm very likely to just drop the game.

Same here. I have about 10 hours a week to game. I get my ass handed to me at work 60 hours a week, why would I want to get it handed to me for my free 10 hours a week, too?

 

[rkofan87]

You're excited about a game. The trailer looks incredible, the art direction is right up your alley, and the worldbuilding seems immersive. But then you find out… there's no easy mode.

Does that make you hesitate?

For me, it's frustrating when I realize the only barrier between me and enjoying a game is its difficulty. I'm not looking for the game to play itself, but I do want options, especially if I'm more interested in the atmosphere, story, or exploration than in dying 15 times to the same boss.

Some recent examples come to mind like Chronos: The New Dawn, which got a lot of attention, but was criticized by some players for having no difficulty options at all. And of course, the gold standard (or nightmare, depending on your perspective) is Elden Ring. Absolutely stunning game. But unless you "git gud" or lean on summons and cheese, there's no built-in way to scale down the challenge.

Games like Returnal, Sekiro, or Remnant II follow similar design philosophies. While I respect them, I can't help but wonder how many players bounce off them entirely just because there's no on-ramp for more casual or story-focused players.

The best approach, in my opinion, is when a game includes difficulty options from the start. That way, it works for everyone. The hardcore crowd still gets their challenge, but other players aren't locked out of the experience. Accessibility doesn't diminish a game's vision. It expands it.

Curious to hear:

• Have you ever not bought a game because it lacked a difficulty option?
• Does a game having an "easy mode" make you more likely to try it?
• What games got the balance right or wrong in your opinion?

1 some times 2 yes 3 i do not know

 

[semiconscious]

i love the souls games... but, otherwise, i really like having the ability to switch difficulty. reality is challenging enough...

 

[CrimsonTide]

i love the souls games... but, otherwise, i really like having the ability to switch difficulty. reality is challenging enough...

Yet you like Souls

Which tells me it's a balancing issue and not a difficulty one eh?

 

[Spukc]

Too many games not enough time.
So let me adjust difficulty to whatever fucking setting i want

 

[GymWolf]

I don't buy genres that i'm not at least decent with so i never need an easy mode really, and a game with no challenge straight up bore me to death so it's like a circle.

Last normal mode i played was mutant year zero because i don't play these games at all.

 

[Signalis]

Of course a mod can go against the developer's vision - that's partly the entire point of mods.
You don't have to like the developer's vision or even stick to it - but the developer is the one who defines the vision, not the player.

I have never seen a Codexer out in the wild

 

[VolticArchangel]

Developer's vision only, always.

They don't have to cater to everyone's needs.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Easier mode than nowadays??

Might be time to "git gud scrub"

 

[semiconscious]

Yet you like Souls

Which tells me it's a balancing issue and not a difficulty one eh?

well, it's more like a souls issue, eh? as in, i don't want or need other games to be equally 'challenging'. &, for me, games can be quite enjoyable without being so...

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I've started only buying souls-likes with difficulty options. I play them on normal but I want the option. I've bought too many that I've never finished.

 

[Thief1987]

And you don't deserve to beat every game.

Are you ok?

 

[StereoVsn]

You're excited about a game. The trailer looks incredible, the art direction is right up your alley, and the worldbuilding seems immersive. But then you find out… there's no easy mode.

Does that make you hesitate?

For me, it's frustrating when I realize the only barrier between me and enjoying a game is its difficulty. I'm not looking for the game to play itself, but I do want options, especially if I'm more interested in the atmosphere, story, or exploration than in dying 15 times to the same boss.

Some recent examples come to mind like Chronos: The New Dawn, which got a lot of attention, but was criticized by some players for having no difficulty options at all. And of course, the gold standard (or nightmare, depending on your perspective) is Elden Ring. Absolutely stunning game. But unless you "git gud" or lean on summons and cheese, there's no built-in way to scale down the challenge.

Games like Returnal, Sekiro, or Remnant II follow similar design philosophies. While I respect them, I can't help but wonder how many players bounce off them entirely just because there's no on-ramp for more casual or story-focused players.

The best approach, in my opinion, is when a game includes difficulty options from the start. That way, it works for everyone. The hardcore crowd still gets their challenge, but other players aren't locked out of the experience. Accessibility doesn't diminish a game's vision. It expands it.

Curious to hear:

• Have you ever not bought a game because it lacked a difficulty option?
• Does a game having an "easy mode" make you more likely to try it?
• What games got the balance right or wrong in your opinion?

I play on PC for the most part and vast majority of these games will get a mod or 100+ (Elden Ring) for difficulty adjustments. And there are also trainers/cheat tables to fall back to.

But yeah, I want options. I like the challenge sometimes but other times I want to see the world/story. I only have a few hours to play each week between work, family, kids, friends, other hobbies, so yeah, time is more valuable vs "git gud".

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

I can't type up another magnum opus. The hall of famer is exhausted from all that hard work, GAF.

 

[StereoVsn]

At my age I need a normal or easy difficulty. I don't have the patience for a game that has a deep learning curve or trial and error gameplay. It's why souls likes don't work for me, why I don't have fun playing hollow knight, ect. If I find the game too difficult in the opening hour I'm very likely to just drop the game.

I am ok with deep learning curves in strategy genres (4x and Grand Srategy are my jam) and CRPGs (including stuff like KCD/KCD2/etc). But even there I like QoL mods.

But in other genres I want options, whether dev provided or through mods. Don't have the time otherwise.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

want it very challenging/enagaging but dont want to get stuck in one place for hours

sometimes i had to fight a souls boss 100 times because my build was splendidly retarded and i refused to adapt

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

Wrong. The difficulty is the experience. The point of a game like Sekiro or Nioh or Dark Souls or whatever is that you do overcome the difficulty hump and do accomplish something within the game. Giving people an easy mode totally compromises that vision. Slopping through the early shit test battles just undermines it. And you know, once you figure it out, it's not that hard.

And you know, anyone can do it. You have countless videos of all sorts of people beating these games with one hand, or with their feet, or with a power pad, or a guitar hero controller. It's not that people can't do it, it's that they don't want to. And that's fine, but don't blame the game for not being what you want it to be.

100% correct about the difficulty being part of the experience of playing these games.
I suck at Souls type games, but I still managed to beat and enjoy Dark Souls, Dark Souls 2 and Bloodborne. Each time I beat one I got the satisfaction ending it.
Now Sekiro is a game that I never will beat, I just dont the "controller skill" necessary to get through the later bosses. And I'm fine that, I still enjoyed my time with the game.

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

I go with what the devs want and I love a good but fair challenge. The feeling of accomplishment is real! I don't consider myself a good gamer though but I can manage to beat the souls games, Sekiro, Nine Sols and the likes but I could never do those Lvl 1 naked run in Dark Souls. I'm not there nor will I ever be.

 

[Sooner]

Rebalanced, yes. Not redesigned. At that point you're adjusting numbers, you're not redesigning animations.

If you're just adjusting numbers, you're doing a half-ass job and are better off not doing it all. You're basically just saying adding more HP and damage delt to enemies is the way to go.

 

[Gordon Fearman]

Do you feel like Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry have no soul?

What a horrible example for your point. Devil May Cry is intentionally designed around repeated playthroughs of increasing difficulty. That's why you can't unlock everything on a single run and why you need to beat the game to unlock the next difficulty. So that's firmly under "developer vision".

 

[Punished Miku]

What a horrible example for your point. Devil May Cry is intentionally designed around repeated playthroughs of increasing difficulty. That's why you can't unlock everything on a single run and why you need to beat the game to unlock the next difficulty. So that's firmly under "developer vision".

Are you saying that no one replays souls games? I don't even know what your argument is here. What soul is missing? You guys are so weird.

 

[Gordon Fearman]

Are you saying that no one replays souls games? I don't even know what your argument is here. What soul is missing? You guys are so weird.

I didn't say shit about soul. I'm saying you shouldn't use DMC for your argument that everything needs an easy mode. That's the only thing I'm saying. You don't need to be confused.

 

[Trogdor1123]

If I want to play a game, the lack of a mode won't stop me. I wouldn't search out info on an easy mode either, I might play it on a different difficulty but I don't demand, or expect, it.

 

[Punished Miku]

I didn't say shit about soul

Read what you even quoted.

Read it.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

I'll make a Git Gud Souls clone where my developer vision will be to come to your house and fuck your wife every time you die. Plot twist: every potential customer must fill out an application with a family photo included.

 

[kevboard]

I like difficult games, and I like easy games.

what I don't like, and what I think devs should stop doing, is having multiple difficulty settings on your first playthrough. because that usually means there's exactly 1 well balanced mode, and multiple other modes that are either overly frustrating due to a lack of proper balancing by the devs, or way too easy for the same reason, because most of the time it's just values being changed semi-randomly

 

[joey Dubs]

It's more nuanced for me than the basic poll answers, but I will vote for Give me options or I'm out.

To explain my reasons would require some typing that I can't do at the moment, and that no one will really care about anyway.

 

[coffinbirth]

Do mods diminish a developers vision?

 

[StereoVsn]

Meh, we need Dorito Pope for full impact. Also, still better than Nicky Minaj

Meh, we need Dorito Pope for full impact. Also, still better than Nicki Minaj!

 

[MSduderino]

The OP should specify he means specific games, like action games/RPGs/Soulslikes it sounds like we are referring to. Having accessibility options is important to me but we don't exactly need difficulty options. Summons in Elden Ring seemed to help people enough and cheesing bosses/elite mobs in ways can be that too.

If there aren't difficulty options, there should be ways to overpower yourself (basically breaking the game) to make it easier for you. RPGs basically always allow you to do this through grinding.

While not a very hard game, TOTK gave the player so many options for how to engage in battle to help you and not much handholding or difficulty options.

 

[Jaybe]

I liked how Hades handled difficulty by having a mode that gave incremental health after every death. That helps graduate the difficulty to the players level over time.

Options to make a game easier or harder are always appreciated by me, however, I won't criticize a developer that wants their experience to be very challenging and involve repeated failures. I've learned that if I'm going to play something with that reputation, I'll need to buy on PC where a stable mod is available to make things easier. I fine with dying occasionally but the thought of dying a boss 50+ times plus run backs isn't for me (and that's fine, not every game need to be).