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Vice: The Struggles of Writing About Chinese Food as a Chinese Person, Clarissa Wei
- Thread starter Haly
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Are you sure it wasn't Tom Kha Gai "reimagined" or "deconstructed"? This is an important factor.
I get why people may be annoyed with it but I don't think they necessarily should be, especiallly if this acceptance ultimately has the potential to benefit players already in the scene.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
You should first stop ghettoizing Filipino food by calling it "struggle food"
man, you don't even know. Ordering at the real restaurant is like a delicious minefield, they got some good stuff and some stuff you don't want to know whats in it. no way in hell I'm eating intestines though, in any language.
While that's true from a detached, overhead view, people like the author of this article are free to have complicated feelings on the matter and to discuss them.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Actual Chinese cuisine is the fucking best though
The original post I replied to was discussing filipino food in relation to "struggle food" threads on gaf. That's why I used the term in quotes, and I also explained the specific Filipino foods that come to mind that evoke that term to me and noted that those don't represent all of Filipino food.
Thanks for keeping my privilege in check, though.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
That's a shame. Deep fried pork intestine is amazing.
Gentrified but pretty good considering their average clientele: http://www.cafechinanyc.com/
If you can make it out to Flushing: https://www.yelp.com/biz/nan-xiang-xiao-long-bao-flushing
One of the Xi'an chains, I prefer their Flushing location but it's far: https://www.yelp.com/biz/xian-famous-foods-new-york-3
Well that's the thing, it doesn't necessarily. A key point in the article is that white America wants to learn about Chinese food from white writers instead of Chinese writers. You may say, "well the Chinese restaurants are still benefiting from it in the end", but still, it hurts to see your most intimate memories bandied about like a prize horse without being able to comment on it credibly. In a way, the author is still being bullied and ostracized, except instead of on the playground or in the classrooom, it's in the industry of food writing. Ultimately, this just keeps Chinese food as something remote, to be gazed at through the safety of a familiar perspective, rather than recognizing Chinese food as part of a culture on its own merits. I could go farther to say it contributes to the Othering and erasure of Chinese people in America itself, but that's a bit out of scope of this thread.
RedAssedApe
Banned
you're not the only one.
its generally love or hate. my sister in law loves stinky tofu. when we went to taiwan last christmas she was in heaven at the night markets. my brother and nieces were like wtf...see you later mom/wife we're going to go down the block where we can't smell that shit lol
Dreamgazer
Member
Personally, if you want to talk about the actual history, science and origin of a food item, that's fine and great . The world needs more Alton Brown.
However, I really don't care about a reviewer's raising, history, or personal insights in regards to food. Too often that is just used as a way for writers to prop up their "authority" and forcing readers to read through yet another "grandma and I made dumpling", "kids at school laughed at my kimchi" Asian-American sob story. Do people really think I'll appreciate a bowl of ramen more if I hear about their personal history with it more? (tell me more about how long you brewed the broth for though.)
There is also nothing more annoying than reading up an Asian restaurant's review on YELP to see the following reviews side by side:
"I was raised in an Asian-American household, and I can tell you this is the one of the most authentic Chinese food ever."
"I have been eating Chinese food all my life, and this place is garbage."
(case in point: https://www.yelp.com/biz/nom-wah-tea-parlor-new-york?q=authentic , lines out the door yet you'll never find the older Chinatown folks here.)
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Intestines are the best!!! Also stinky tofu and coagulated pork blood.
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
Salted Duck is way better than salted goose.
FOH lady
FOH lady
Icebergslim
Banned
America has been appropriating other peoples culture for years and years. Welcome to the club.
slightly off topic, but I think my biggest pet peeve has been people/places labeling classic foods from a certain cuisine with small adjustments as 'modern'. like i went to some white ass mexican place and got some way-too-expensive tacos that the waiter described as 'a modern take on mexican food' and i wanted to slap his dumb ass, as if people only ate tacos in the stone ages or some shit. it's fucking tacos. they are timeless.
Hickbilly Deluxe
Banned
Umm, what? My mom made bone broth when I was a kid, and she said she learned it from her grandmother. It's not some new thing, its been around for ages in a lot of areas.
psuedo racist superiority complex: check ✔
victim mentality: check ✔
so spot on.
"Gentrified" is pseudo-racism now? Alright mate.
Yeah surprise, Chinese like to think of themselves as accepted by white America but that's unsurprisingly not necessarily the case.
Keep it up though. Show us how much more righteous you are for taking the subtle racism Chinese Americans face in stride rather than addressing it honestly and forthrightly.
EDIT: You know what I used to think like you actually, and over time I recognized this is basically the opposite side of the "Chinese pride" mindset where you start to resent your own culture and family for being insular and nearsighted. This kind of self-hatred is really common among urbanized Chinese American youth, and in the end it's just as misguided, because you fall into the trap of ignoring real problems your social group faces for fear of falling victim to the nationalism you so despise.
this guy understands
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Gladly. Hopefully next time you don't respond so defensively
boiled goose
good with gravy
The US doesn't even understand authentic regional Mexican cuisine. Mexican means burritos. Maybe tacos. Sometimes even nachos.
Mexico is next door.
Good luck China.
Mexico is next door.
Good luck China.
Just_myles
Member
You're awful but I knew this already. Sichuan > Hunan, but I do agree Sichuan is now a meme.
It's all about that Xinjiang for me now.
There's few parts of a pig/cow that isn't eaten somewhere in China.
Sho is. Let me get that doh.
Especially if they're made by white people.
Only thought I had reading the article, lol
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
It's weird how Chinese food became the cheap end of restaurant food in America and Japanese became the overpriced end. I guess it was a combination of the 80's and 90's, weaboos, and the high price of "sushi grade" fish.
I did a double look when playing Persona 5 and the characters mentioned going to a Chinese restaurant as one of the luxury options.
This a nonsense statement. Every culture has secret culinary techniques with oddly sourced ingredients.
I did a double look when playing Persona 5 and the characters mentioned going to a Chinese restaurant as one of the luxury options.
This a nonsense statement. Every culture has secret culinary techniques with oddly sourced ingredients.
Mexican cuisine faces the same stigma I feel. Tex-mex is basically the Mexican equivalent of "crab rangoons". And it's a struggle to get your restaurant taken seriously as something people might drop a paycheck on. Indian is another.
Wow, you're an expert on Chinese-American culture because you have a lot of Chinese family members.
Maybe, just maybe, the Chinese members in your family have a "victim complex" because they were treated unfairly for being Chinese?
But hey, I guess you find it fun to put down minorities because they complain about things you don't care for.
Septimus Prime
Member
Or "fusion." Oh, we made it the wrong way and/or used the wrong ingredients, so it's fusion cuisine. Like, it can still be good, but you can call it what it is.
What to learn some more about Chinese cuisine. I recommend a classic An Lee movie, Eat Drink Man Women. It was from the era before his Oscar fame; but it was his best. Here is a snippet of it on Youtuke. Beware: contains scenes of slaughtering a live fish.
https://youtu.be/1-2QBYKI8LU
https://youtu.be/1-2QBYKI8LU
Poor GRIMES
Banned
And here you go again LOL
In general what is "good" food versus "cheap eats" has no real rhyme or reason. Lobsters were once poor people food in the northeast, obviously that's changed.
People not appreciating subtleties in regional foods is as noted irrelevant with regards to the issues of writing about Asian cuisines, because no average person outside the region is likely to understand or care about the differences. No one in China cares about the differences between Mexican and Salvadorean, no one in the US really understands the Chinese variations. Hell even within the US "southern food" is such a ridiculously broad category.
More to the point of the article, I can appreciate the thorniness of dealing with cultural elements that may not have been appreciated, but that should have very little to do with actual criticism and commentary. Some of these white people may have more actual connections to Chinese cuisine by traveling there than a Chinese-American living in the US, so trying to argue superiority based on skin tone or surnames sounds like a fools' errand.
People not appreciating subtleties in regional foods is as noted irrelevant with regards to the issues of writing about Asian cuisines, because no average person outside the region is likely to understand or care about the differences. No one in China cares about the differences between Mexican and Salvadorean, no one in the US really understands the Chinese variations. Hell even within the US "southern food" is such a ridiculously broad category.
More to the point of the article, I can appreciate the thorniness of dealing with cultural elements that may not have been appreciated, but that should have very little to do with actual criticism and commentary. Some of these white people may have more actual connections to Chinese cuisine by traveling there than a Chinese-American living in the US, so trying to argue superiority based on skin tone or surnames sounds like a fools' errand.
ScientificNinja
Member
A terrific article. I have a Caucasian friend who once declared to me that he'd discovered a fantastic new Chinese dish called xiao long bao. When I explained it's been around for decades and that they were originally a bread-like dumpling from Shanghai called xiao long man tao before taking their current form a few years later (I'm Chinese and my grandfather explained it to me), he gathered around his Caucasian hipster friends and basically used their numbers to tell me that I'm wrong and that it's brand new.
Fuck those guys.
Fuck those guys.
So what you guys are telling me is that the "Chinese" food that I finally came to appreciate within the past five years, like orange chicken, sweet and sour pork, and beef and broccoli do not actually qualify as such?
See, this is why being open-minded is a dead end.
See, this is why being open-minded is a dead end.
I don't think white America necessarily wants it, but that's how it plays out for whatever reason. I just wonder how people feel about people like Rick Bayless for Mexican cuisine or Andy Ricker for Thai cuisine. Both of these guys were inspired by street food from those countries, and maybe by strict definition it was exploitative but I don't think there is ever any intent to harm people (which is the general vibe I get whenever I hear the words "cultural appropriation" thrown around).
Yeah, I get the feelings of the author in the OP. But she's ascribing these feelings she experienced growing up by kids who didn't know any better at the time and is conflating them with the hipsters of today. They're not the same entities, and global tastes are constantly evolving.
I checked out her twitter feed and you'll see people getting worked up over this topic going so far as to say white people are stealing.
I'm sorry your chastisement didn't really work out, but you haven't had anything to say other than an attempted drive-by virtue signaling/shaming. I have an acerbic reaction to holier-than-thou people with nothing to say.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I got to eat some local Sichuan in Chongqing earlier this year and it was soooo good and I'm so sad most trips only take me to the coasts
That's just the Vice crowd. I don't really care for them; I'm only interested in the topic itself as it pertains to Chinese food and other maligned cuisines.
I used to turn up my nose at it. Now I just give it its own category: Americanized Chinese, like how TexMex is distinct, for me, from Mexican. I just don't have a catchy name for it, which is why I'll never work in advertising.
luuul
Poor GRIMES
Banned
Funnily enough, you could have just as easily turned a blind eye to my post telling you to stop using demeaning language to describe a culture's food. But here we are again, with the back and forth pettiness, when you could have just said "oh hey, my bad" and moved on
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Nvm
ChinAmerican.....nah
You're implying that it would be better if it was filled with 'authentic' Chinese people, arent you? How else would you interpret that statement?
Thank you. So you at least acknowledge that this 'victim/superiority' mindset does exist among some Chinese people. Like I said, I think its awesome to have pride in your culture. But it does strike me as though sometimes some Chinese people are dying to be accepted for who they are by, lets be honest, white people, but at the same time they can be very quick to put down white people for either accepting it too much (labelled appropriation) or not getting it enough (labelled ignorance).
lvl99 Pixel
Member
we had lunch at a Chinese girls place and there was a table lined with like duck skulls, or at least thats what i assume it was. I dont think I can get passed that barrier of food looking like death.
Including ''white'' cultures.
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