Video: White store manager follows black teens around a store

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enzom21 said:
We can't, but there are plenty of people discounting racism as a factor and you don't seem to be chastising them.
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There are a lot of people "LOLing" at people who say this isn't standard LP behavior- it very much is. If you suspect something might be up, you assign someone to tail them. You either deter the behavior or catch them in the act.

It's not that people are discounting racism as a potential factor - but it's one that's unprovable without a pattern from this individual. (Or a singular outright racist action.)
 
enzom21 said:
We can't, but there are plenty of people discounting racism as a factor and you don't seem to be chastising them.
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I didn't mean to chastise anyone. I'm just saying, I don't think we can dismiss either of these things, but that the video ultimately doesn't give us enough to really make a determination of what was driving the situation.And because this sort of things happens that isn't based on race, it's something we should at least consider, before defaulting to it definitely being motivated by race. (It could be motivated by both).
 
zero shift said:
Lol @ but I got followed once and I'm white! W-H-I-T-E! This has NOTHING to do with race!
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Been followed and observed in stores many times while I've been dressed "normally". I made one example of a more 'extreme' case where a guy followed me out of a store because I walked away from the liquor section empty handed and I was in my 20's or early 30's.
 
Slayven said:
Zimmerman logic.
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Really? perfectly sound logic.

I've been followed around in a convenience store once, I was wearing a baggy arse jumper and track pants. I don't blame the guy. I'd have done it too. went back the next day in a polo top and jeans to make things right.
 
HolyCheck said:
Really? perfectly sound logic.

I've been followed around in a convenience store once, I was wearing a baggy arse jumper and track pants. I don't blame the guy. I'd have done it too. went back the next day in a polo top and jeans to make things right.
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Hoodies can be used to obstruct your face from view from security cameras. Most stores will ask you to put your hoodie down.
 
MIMIC said:
And I'm black, 27-years-old, been driving for 12 years and have never been pulled over. Not once in my life. EVER.

And this means absolutely NOTHING in the grand scheme of things. Your personal experience doesn't invalidate (or make less true) a worldwide problem.
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But his personal experience does validate a "worldwide problem?"
 
kirblar said:
There are a lot of people "LOLing" at people who say this isn't standard LP behavior- it very much is. If you suspect something might be up, you assign someone to tail them. You either deter the behavior or catch them in the act.

It's not that people are discounting racism as a potential factor - but it's one that's unprovable without a pattern from this individual. (Or a singular outright racist action.)
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There are plenty of people immediately discounting racism as a factor in this thread.

Azula said:
I didn't mean to chastise anyone. I'm just saying, I don't think we can dismiss either of these things, but that the video ultimately doesn't give us enough to really make a determination of what was driving the situation.And because this sort of things happens that isn't based on race, it's something we should at least consider, before defaulting to it definitely being motivated by race. (It could be motivated by both).
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For the record, I never claimed that racism was the sole reason for him following these youth.

My issue is with the people coming in here saying "I've been followed and I'm white. Not racist!" As if their singular experiences invalidates years of racial profiling.
 
enzom21 said:
My issue is with the people coming in here saying "I've been followed and I'm white. Not racist!" As if their singular experiences invalidates years of racial profiling.
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It doesn't invalidate it. However, in a case like this it does occur with a lot of people. The fact that these kids titled the YouTube video with the word 'racist' without any further explanation as to why they may think it is (i.e. the kids explaining the manager has been seen only following black or non-white people or that he has been heard using racial slurs, etc.) is basically prejudice on their part as well.

I don't think anyone in this thread would ever deny there's racial profiling. It is quite possible he is racist but until we know anything further, one cannot say one way or another. People here are just pointing out that managers follow teenagers, regardless of race, that may be "dressed suspiciously" or walking into a large grocery store with little or no items.

When you really look at it, it's prejudice on the manager's part regardless whether it be because of race, age, clothes, or whatever. It's also prejudice on the kids filming part for assuming an old white manager is automatically racist for following them.
 
a completely inflammatory title followed by a nonexistant op...please be more transparent OP

kids steal shit. I'm pale as a zombie and got followed when i was a teen, I lifted a plethora of things, got caught and stopped
 
enzom21 said:
You just said there wasn't anyone discounting racism. Which is it?
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I suspected you were reading too far into people who say "isn't necessarily racism" as "not racist, period." And if you think that, nothing I say will convince you otherwise, so I was moving on to a point I thought I could get through to you on.
 
Never been followed in my life. Workers where I shop don't give a shit.

One time when I was working at Target I was walking over to the checklanes and some lady walked over to me from 30 feet away and yelled at me accusing me of following her around. What.
 
Kids shoplift all the time. It's reality. You can't just say that it was racist only on the grounds that they were black. That's kinda nuts. If he's done suspicious stuff before then it's an entirely different ball game however.
 
Popparoks said:
This video is 2 years old why is everybody angry about it now?
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OP is sitting in the bushes with a bowl of popcorn, watching everyone dance.

not psycho said:
Sometimes for fun I buy groceries at one store, put them all in a large bag with the receipt, carry the bag into a second grocery store, buy a couple small items, then walk out with all the other groceries clearly in view.

So I'll buy a candy bar, and they can see I've got milk/cereal/etc in the bag, but I don't put those on the conveyor. Just walk out with them.

So far nobody stopped me though (I'm white).
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Now this is funny. I read it in Patrick Bateman's voice, too.
 
Grinchy said:
But his personal experience does validate a "worldwide problem?"
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No, I said "invalidate" (meaning white people being followed doesn't erase all the times black people were followed due to their skin color)

But anyway, the boys might have been subjected to racism, or perhaps the manger had a reasonable suspicion that they were shoplifters. Who knows. But like I said before (which was my only gripe): it is unfair to criticize those who immediately suspect racism. It's easy to have never experienced it and then claim that it isn't an issue here (or in other similar scenarios).
 
Mumei said:
If you think about this event in a vacuum, maybe it makes sense to argue, "Well, it could be age and not race."

He's right that we can't know whether racism was what motivated the store manager to follow these teens around the store - but that's true about every single incident when this happens. At some point you have to observe the larger societal context, note the fact that the black (male, especially) experience of being stalked around stores is nigh ubiquitous, and conclude that, yes, it probably is a reasonable position to think that racism was key here. It's certainly not a wild-eyed and irresponsible position to take.

But I'll think about reading the book, Dookkake.
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My issue with this line of reasoning, is that if you claim someone is racist - without actually knowing, you are doing a lot of damage to that person on what could be a false claim. Saying that in a larger context that this happens often, doesn't mean you can make the claim that a person is being a racist. I mean, I understand that you can come to the assumption that he probably is, because it's pretty common - but the person that uploaded this video actually goes beyond this, and says the guy is a racist. So it goes from you personally believing or observing that someone is racist based on odds, and now making the claim that someone is.

Also, in a larger context, why can't we also acknowledge that store managers do this to teenagers pretty commonly as well. If we acknowledge that both are pretty common, why is it logically sound to default to it clearly being racism? Wouldn't it be more logical to consider both? Especially if you are going to accuse and claim someone as being racist. That's not something that should be taken lightly.
 
Mumei said:
Why? Can you explain why you find it so terrifying?
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Because "Racism was key here" is not a reasonable position to take.

There is a store manager here following kids around. The kids believe it's because they're black. The store manager is white.

We have no way of knowing if this is racially motivated. That would require a singularly overtly racist incident, or a pattern of behavior in order to judge it on. We have neither. We know the south has racial tensions, which are almost certainly informing the kids' judgement. And certainly, it lurks as a potential issue here, but it's not something we can definitively say yes or no on.

This isn't abnormal behavior from a manager or LP associate who are worried about theft. To arrest someone, at least where I was working previously, you would need to see a shoplifter both hide the item AND see the person try to leave with it. Hence, the tailing. The manager has obviously made a wrong guess - but it's his job to guess. You're going to have false alarms, and that's part of the day's work.

The issue with declaring "yeah, it's racism" is to essentially say: "Because this man is white, and they are black, it's racism." Systemic racism is most definitely a huge issue. Judging people solely by the color of their skin is gross. But calling this manager's behavior out as "obviously racist behavior" essentially is doing the exact same thing in reverse. That's why I find it so frightening - you're essentially condoning reciprocity of bad behavior.
 
As someone who was once a store manager, I would follow anyone around that looked suspicious, regardless of colour.

I think some people are looking for racism where there isn't any.

- people taking photos of the store.
- people who obviously have no shopping agenda

Anything that didn't look like average shopping would be scrutinized. When you've been in retail long enough you can start to tell the difference between someone who is browsing/shopping and someone who might be watching you to see when they have an opening to steal.

I have been followed/watched in stores and I'm white.
 
enzom21 said:
We can't, but there are plenty of people discounting racism as a factor and you don't seem to be chastising them.
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Maybe some people are uncomfortable labeling someone as a racist when there is very little evidence to support that claim.
 
It's impossible to know whether this is an act of racism without testing other variables. I can say that I work in a large retail store and see and hear our security personnel following people around all the time. There is not a large black population in our area, but people are followed all the time - regardless of race. They do tend to be teens much of the time, and they do look for signs like hoodies or large jackets - things that can hold items without being seen, basically.
 
Do they realize there is a trend of teenage douchebags filming themselves knocking shit off shelves and splattering milk jugs on the floor?
 
Count Dookkake said:
Calling out racism when it is not present does not help matters.

It annoys those that would otherwise like to help and slows the address of real racism.
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If people are annoyed when people call out something as racist that is not 100% verified as racist, and that somehow leads them to not address "real" racism when it occurs, they are probably racist and looking for an excuse to shrug their shoulders.

Now, does race play a part in what happened in the video? Ceteris paribus, It's pretty likely. It's true that there is no way to be sure.
 
Azula said:
My issue with this line of reasoning, is that if you claim someone is racist - without actually knowing, you are doing a lot of damage to that person on what could be a false claim.
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I guess this is where we have a disconnect. I am not claiming that someone is racist. I am claiming that it is reasonable for someone to think that this incident was motivated in part by racial bias, and that bias could have been anything from outright animus to conscious stereotyping to simply judging the situation differently because of internalized stereotypes about black people (or black teenagers, if you prefer). Or it could have been unrelated to those things. I am simply maintaining that the former is not inexplicable because there's a larger social context that this event takes place in.

And certainly, it is true that there could be other factors; it could be race and age. Or it could just be age, sure. But I also think that the personal context for the people being followed is important. If I were black and I was often followed by white store managers or employees while shopping at those stores, but didn't have those same experiences while at stores with black store managers or employees, I'd probably think that it was racially motivated. I might be wrong in some individual cases, but I'd think the pattern should speak for itself. For all I know, that could be the experience of the person who uploaded this video.
 
he was probably just trying to tell them that they are holding their phone improperly for shooting video... everyone knows vertical videos are bullshit.
 
This thread is pretty funny to me, because in my small-ish french town there was a period when everytime I'd go in the local store, this black security guy would follow me everywhere. He was really blatant about it, and stared me intently in the face everytime I looked in his direction.

I have no idea why he did it, I was not really a teenager any more at the time, wore jeans and a shirt everytime, and never stole anything. I wasn't even buying alcohol or anything most of the time, just normal groceries. Oh and I'm the whitest guy in the world if you're wondering.

Mumei said:
I guess this is where we have a disconnect. I am not claiming that someone is racist. I am claiming that it is reasonable for someone to think that this incident was motivated in part by racial bias, and that bias could have been anything from outright animus to conscious stereotyping to simply judging the situation differently because of internalized stereotypes about black people (or black teenagers, if you prefer). Or it could have been unrelated to those things. I am simply maintaining that the former is not inexplicable because there's a larger social context that this event takes place in.

And certainly, it is true that there could be other factors; it could be race and age. Or it could just be age, sure. But I also think that the personal context for the people being followed is important. If I were black and I was often followed by white store managers or employees while shopping at those stores, but didn't have those same experiences while at stores with black store managers or employees, I'd probably think that it was racially motivated. I might be wrong in some individual cases, but I'd think the pattern should speak for itself. For all I know, that could be the experience of the person who uploaded this video.
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"for all we know," there might be a huge pattern of evidence and racist behaviour, so let's respond exactly as if it was the case. I'm pretty sure that's the attitude the other poster found scary.
 
They are being followed because they are walking around a store and not actually shopping for anything. The one guy has a drink in his hand and thats it. You would think people would be actually there to you know, shop for something, not just walk up and down aisles not buying anything.
 
speedline said:
They are being followed because they are walking around a store and not actually shopping for anything. The one guy has a drink in his hand and thats it. You would think people would be actually there to you know, shop for something, not just walk up and down aisles not buying anything.
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At the end of the video, the kid says he's going to checkout to pay for his stuff.
 
Hige said:
He's always playing victim in these threads. Good to see someone else notices too.
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I asked him to point out something I said that was racist since he called me one. He couldn't. If you can, go right on ahead.

Also, If you look at his last 100 or so posts, over 3/4th's are race related. The kid has problems.
 
Jangocube said:
I asked him to point out something I said that was racist since he called me one. He couldn't. If you can, go right on ahead.

Also, If you look at his last 100 or so posts, over 3/4th's are race related. The kid has problems.
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I gave you a perfectly fine example. You agreeing with a dude calling blacks monkeys wasn't enough for you?
 
enzom21 said:
I gave you a perfectly fine example. You agreeing with a dude calling blacks monkeys wasn't enough for you?
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Agreeing with a person's overall message does not mean I agree with everything they said. I mean hell, there are ton's of great people that I agree with most the time that have done and said some vile and evil shit. Did I call anyone a monkey? Hell no.

But hey, keep grasping at straws. You are obsessed with racism/race. It's really really weird. Your post history is troubling. And that's enough on the topic of you
 
Jangocube said:
Agreeing with a person's overall message does not mean I agree with everything they said. I mean hell, there are ton's of great people that I agree with most the time that have done and said some vile and evil shit. Did I call anyone a monkey? Hell no.

But hey, keep grasping at straws. You are obsessed with racism/race. It's really really weird. Your post history is troubling. And that's enough on the topic of you
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Nope not obsessed with racism, just find racists like yourself fascinating.
 
Blair said:
Thank god i have cctv in my place. I can be a massive racist and no one knows!


(post about middle age and older people stealing is right)
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Yup

Kids are scared of being caught and at most will steal a bag of chips or a soda.

Old people don't give a fuck and will shove two bottles of wine in their pants or twenty cans of sardines in their bag.
 
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