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[teiresias]

Some of you guys are blowing it way out of proportion.

I know, I mean, when Tom Hanks stabbed Angelina Jolie at the Oscars last year I was all like, "What's the big deal yo?!"

 

[boredJonathan]

I know, I mean, when Tom Hanks stabbed Angelina Jolie at the Oscars last year I was all like, "What's the big deal yo?!"

Well.. she did enjoy it.

 

[karasu]

I know, I mean, when Tom Hanks stabbed Angelina Jolie at the Oscars last year I was all like, "What's the big deal yo?!"

That's not what I mean. I mean people are talking like the entire place was in support of the violence or something. Like there were chants of 'kill kill kill' bouncing off of the walls of the place.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

^^

The racist-thinking people have been saying that... Point of view on this matter highlights just who those people are.

No one is condoning the violence or sees nothing wrong with it, it's just that people who clearly don't like the music and/or culture have been going out of their way to make that known in this thread.

Trolls they are.

 

[Trakball]

Well, I think that this whole thing is just another blemish on the already-fucked-up-face of "rap", and I certainly hope you don't find that racist of me. Or trolling.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

I could care less what anyone thinks about music, let alone hip hop... You're cool tho, so no worries.


Video - Danger Mouse | Encore

 

[Flynn]

The Vibe Awards was produced by a guy named Jimmy Henchman.

 

[RobotChant]

Yeah, rock artist aren't stabbing and beating each other down, but that's beside the point. Violence and destructive behavior is just that. You can just as easily say it's the music that these rock artists play that contributes to their fans behavior.

This isn't a case of black people not knowing how to act. It's when you bring so called thugs from opposing factions together, this happens.

Rap has a dark side, there’s no arguing that. I would say it’s one of the lures of the genre. IMO, there’s no need to hide why many people enjoy it. Of course it’s not all like that, and just because you listen to it, doesn’t mean you’ll go and act it out.

 

[Mike Works]

^^

The racist-thinking people have been saying that... Point of view on this matter highlights just who those people are.

No one is condoning the violence or sees nothing wrong with it

You may not be condoning it, but you're awfuly fucking close. I'm fine with you being offended at people who say it's only or mainly black people doing this, but look at the debates that have been presented in this thread.

How many stabbings, drive by's, etc have occured between artists in the country music scene, the rock scene, or anything other than the rap scene?

 

[DaCocoBrova]

^^

Fuck outta here...

Please, use the nifty lil' quote function and show me how I 'condone' violence in any industry... Please.

 

[soundwave05]

Time for some people to hit the "bail out!" button ...

http://www.salon.com/ent/log/1999/07/29/rape/

Woodstock 99: Three days of peace, love and rape

Rape accounts emerge in wake of music festival.


- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Bill Wyman


July 29, 1999 | The Washington Post reports that police say at least four rapes occurred at Woodstock 99, held in upstate New York last weekend. The Post story includes one disturbing eyewitness report of a body-surfing woman pulled down into the crowd and gang-raped during Limp Bizkit's set.

"There clearly wasn't anything I could do," the Post reported counselor David Schneider as saying. "They're big brawny people and it seemed like most of the crowd around them were cheering them on ... It was so disturbing. You're thinking, if this girl was being raped, wouldn't all these people try to stop what was going on?"

Police confirmed four rape reports, but say that it might be difficult to prosecute offenders, given the dispersal of the crowd. The stories say others at the site reported "many more." Said the Associated Press: "Crisis intervention workers said they witnessed many more sexual assaults, some taking place in the mosh pit."

Another woman said she was raped -- apparently by more than one person -- in a wooded area; police said her inebriation made it difficult to get a clear story, however.

AP reports that festival organizers will turn over camera footage of the crowd to police. The three-day concert was already marred by a riot that occurred in the early morning hours Monday. Bands of concert-goers tipped over cars, looted and burned concession and souvenir trailers and destroyed ATM machines. Five were reported hurt, seven arrested.
salon.com | July 29, 1999

 

[Trakball]

Soundwave, you've given me one example (and come on! Limp Bizquick is hip-hop, AM I RITE!*) of rawk n' roll mayhem, and I've given you four examples of hip-hop melees ending in trips to the hospital and/or the morgue.

Seriously, as a 31-soon-to-be-32 year old b-boy, I expect better from these "artists". I can't believe some of you can claim to love the music so much on the one hand, but then treat incidents such as the Vibe awards as no big deal on the other?


*

Spoiler

of course this is fucking sarcasm

 

[karasu]

You may not be condoning it, but you're awfuly fucking close. I'm fine with you being offended at people who say it's only or mainly black people doing this, but look at the debates that have been presented in this thread.

How many stabbings, drive by's, etc have occured between artists in the country music scene, the rock scene, or anything other than the rap scene?

This wasn't between artists. It was some unknown fuckhat attacking Dr Dre. Someone stabbed that dude, but who knows who. I remember when Axl Rose jumped into an audience to beat the shit out of a guy who was recording the show. Who blamed ROck Music for that? Or When Sid Vicious smashed an audience member in the head with his guitar, who outside of the Bible Belt blamed rock music for that? Sheesh. Bowie getting stabbed in the eye with a lollipop. Jack White beating the shit out of Jason Stollsteimer, etc etc.

 

[soundwave05]

There are several other examples in this thread alone of rock fans trashing places.

I could also get into some of the crazy sh-t rock stars do like urinating on the audience and stuff like that.

All I'm saying is some people need to get off their f-cking high horse.

Yeah what happened at the Vibe Awards was unfourtunate, to then to single out the entire industry as being a certain way, gimme a break.

This is one no-name idiot who decided to attack Dr. Dre.

 

[Renegade]

If these award shows are to showcase the BEST of an industry and the BEST cannot conduct themselves as decent human beings? Pathetic.

Suge Knight is not among the BEST of anything. You all are making it seem as if EVERYONE at the ceremony were guilty of something when it was really ONE person and his money influencing another person to do something stupid.

 

[karasu]

Soundwave, you've given me one example (and come on! Limp Bizquick is hip-hop, AM I RITE!*) of rawk n' roll mayhem, and I've given you four examples of hip-hop melees ending in trips to the hospital and/or the morgue.

Seriously, as a 31-soon-to-be-32 year old b-boy, I expect better from these "artists". I can't believe some of you can claim to love the music so much on the one hand, but then treat incidents such as the Vibe awards as no big deal on the other?


*

Spoiler

of course this is fucking sarcasm

You have to put it in context. ONE man was attacked and some of his friends went after the attacker. It's a shame it happened, but it is NOT the whole of hip hop! The show went on, there were no riots or anything of the sort afterwards. It's kinda like that Holyfield Bow fight where the guy jumped into the wrong and got the shit kicked out of him and the fight resumed once he was taken away. This shit was started by an outsider, some guy pretending to want an autograph. Unfortunately Dre's friends went too far in his defense, but again, it is NOT the whole of Hip Hop. it was not the spirit of the night and it was not a Beef between artist. People have assumed that Suge Knight had something to do with it, but that's only because he was there.

 

[Trakball]

All I'm saying is some people need to get off their f-cking high horse.

And I'm just saying that some people need to get over their f-cking laissez-faire attitudes.

 

[Trakball]

You have to put it in context. ONE man was attacked and some of his friends went after the attacker.

Oh jesus. You want context? Name the last time something has happened like this at the Grammys. At the American Music Awards. At the Emmys. At the Ace awards.

Now tell me how many times something like this has happened either pre-show, post-show or during the show at a r&b / hip-hop based award ceremony.

 

[karasu]

Oh jesus. You want context? Name the last time something has happened like this at the Grammys. At the American Music Awards. At the Emmys. At the Ace awards.

Now tell me how many times something like this has happened either pre-show, post-show or during the show at a r&b / hip-hop based award ceremony.

What the fuck difference does it make how many times this has happened? How many times have the Trade centers fell? jesus. They're suppossed to be faulted because noone ever tried to punch Dr Dre in the face at the grammy's? Because you know, he goes to those too. The guy who attacked Dre was not a rapper.

 

[soundwave05]

Oh jesus. You want context? Name the last time something has happened like this at the Grammys. At the American Music Awards. At the Emmys. At the Ace awards.

Now tell me how many times something like this has happened either pre-show, post-show or during the show at a r&b / hip-hop based award ceremony.

Actually I would like to know how many times its happened at a hip-hop ceremony/awards show.

Once? Twice?

 

[Mike Works]

^^

Fuck outta here...

Please, use the nifty lil' quote function and show me how I 'condone' violence in any industry... Please.

Please use the nifty lil' quote function to quote the part where I said you're not condoning it, read the quote, and the comprehend what I said.

This wasn't between artists. It was some unknown fuckhat attacking Dr Dre. Someone stabbed that dude, but who knows who.

Who knows who? Isn't a warrant out for that rapper quoted in this very thread?

This wasn't between artists. It was some unknown fuckhat attacking Dr Dre. Someone stabbed that dude, but who knows who. I remember when Axl Rose jumped into an audience to beat the shit out of a guy who was recording the show. Who blamed ROck Music for that? Or When Sid Vicious smashed an audience member in the head with his guitar, who outside of the Bible Belt blamed rock music for that? Sheesh. Bowie getting stabbed in the eye with a lollipop. Jack White beating the shit out of Jason Stollsteimer, etc etc.

Sid Vicious smashing the audience member with a guitar was fucking idiotic, and rock music got a black eye from that outside of the Bible Belt. Axl shouldn't have beat the shit out of the guy recording his show, even if it was illegal, either, I agree with. Jack White beating Stollsteimer was also stupid.

But did any of those people die?

 

[Trakball]

What the fuck difference does it make how many times this has happened? How many times have the Trade centers fell? jesus. They're suppossed to be faulted because noone ever tried to punch Dr Dre in the face at the grammy's? Because you know, he goes to those too. The guy who attacked Dre was not a rapper.

I don't care if he was a rapper or not. The thing is, YOU DON'T SEE THIS KIND OF SHIT AT OTHER SHOWS. The wildest people get during the grammys is the Soy Bomb dude, and maybe you get a streaker at the Emmys but other than that....?

How did the guy get past security in the first place?

 

[Trakball]

Actually I would like to know how many times its happened at a hip-hop ceremony/awards show.

Once? Twice?

Read upthread, do a google search, whatevers.

Forget it dude, rappaz 'r saintz, okay?

 

[karasu]

Sid Vicious smashing the audience member with a guitar was fucking idiotic, and rock music got a black eye from that outside of the Bible Belt. Axl shouldn't have beat the shit out of the guy recording his show, even if it was illegal, either, I agree with. Jack White beating Stollsteimer was also stupid.

But did any of those people die?

Uh, nobody died here either. And just because there's a warrant out for a guy it doesn't mean he did it. I don't know who did it. There's a warrant out for Young Buck because he was seen with a knife, but someone else says that a knife was passed around after it happened. It shouldn't have happened, nobody deniies that. But someone, a fan maybe, obviously wanted to embarass Dre, and he could have chosen to do that anywhere. He chose to do it at the Vibe awards, why i don't know. maybe because their seating was more like a dinner than an awards show , giving him easy access. Who the fuck knows. if he wante dto attack Dre at The MTV awards he could have done that too.

 

[soundwave05]

I never said rappers are saints.

But women getting gang raped during a rock concert/festival goes beyond just "embarrassing" as well. I didn't hear that much of an outcry over that.

 

[G4life98]

Oh jesus. You want context? Name the last time something has happened like this at the Grammys. At the American Music Awards. At the Emmys. At the Ace awards.

Now tell me how many times something like this has happened either pre-show, post-show or during the show at a r&b / hip-hop based award ceremony.

who was missing from those shows...disgruntled and jealous thug suge knight..hasnt he basically been linked to every act of violence at a hip-hop awards shows.

 

[karasu]

I don't care if he was a rapper or not. The thing is, YOU DON'T SEE THIS KIND OF SHIT AT OTHER SHOWS. The wildest people get during the grammys is the Soy Bomb dude, and maybe you get a streaker at the Emmys but other than that....?

How did the guy get past security in the first place?

Honestly that isn't what matters. It isn't a case of Us versus Them here. A guy was attacked when he was about to get award, it's a shame. he was embarrassed in front of his peers, and a fucktard was stabbed. It COULD happen anywhere. I just think it's important to remember that not everyone got out of control, there were no fires or riots, not even multiple injuries. One group overreacted in defense of their friend. Maybe the problem was security. As I read it, the guy told Dre that he wanted an autograph and when Dre was about to sign one the dude hit him. It's not anything hip hop specific. Some fucker chose to attack Dre on National TV, and Dre's friends went too far to defend him. People always choose to do wild shit at these music awards. Axl Rose threatened to kick the shit out of Cobain at one of the MTV movie Awards, then of course there's that time dude from Rage Against the Machine climbed atop one of their structures and refused to come down. Who knows why

 

[soundwave05]

Yeah, it seems like Suge Knight is basically the common thread behind all this sh-t, and the guy is loser and a has-been who's just trying to start crap.

But if you're gonna rip on all rappers ... there's a reason why Snoop and Dr. Dre seperated from Suge's record label, because they didn't want to be involved with that kind of nonsense.

 

[Trakball]

But women getting gang raped during a rock concert/festival goes beyond just "embarrassing" as well. I didn't hear that much of an outcry over that.

holy shit, if you could just pull up an old Salon article about it, there must not have been ANY outcry at all! by the way, have you copped your tickets to Woodstock '05 yet!?

 

[soundwave05]

What happened at Woodstock is the most despicable thing I've ever heard of happening at any musical event/concert/awards show.

But I guess it must've been the 10 black people that showed up to Woodstock '99 that caused all that violence and mayhem.

 

[Trakball]

oh for christs sake. you make me want to throw out all my vinyl and just listen to jazz.

 

[soundwave05]

Maybe you should throw out all your Suge Knight CDs (provided you have any) and just call it a day?

He's the one that seems to be at the center of all these stupid events.

I don't see why the actions of one individual or a small group of individuals should blemish everyone else.

The reason why I don't have a strong sense of "outrage" over this is because I do understand this is basically the work of one group of idiots, the same people who have done this before and they did this in an entirely unprovoked manner. But I also understand that it doesn't mean everyone else there is in the same boat.

I don't think anyone who's a hard core tennis fan is a nutcase because some loon decided to go stab Monica Seles.

 

[Trakball]

Maybe you should throw out all your Suge Knights CDs (provided you have any) and just call it a day?

Yeah I'm a big Suge fan. *sigh* No, I just listen to Anticon all day.*

I don't see why the actions of one individual or a small group of individuals should blemish everyone else.

And that's why I'm so disappointed. I'm not a fan of the style of rap being celebrated, so it really shouldn't matter to me, right? But like Flavor Flav once said: "You shouldn't try to put a black eye in a gang." And Eazy-E said we're all in the same gang.

*

Spoiler

That's not true although Jel has got dope beats

 

[soundwave05]

What's wrong with Dr. Dre recieving an award? Even if you don't like his style of music, the guy is relatively clean cut, a family man, and most importantly a pretty talented record producer who dissassociated himself from Suge Knight because he didn't like the culture of violence that was developing there.

If you're going to be upset at anyone be upset at Suge, but I really hate it when people use these events to generalize everyone else who was there.

 

[Master Z]

I really hate it when people use these events to generalize everyone else who was there.

And an entire culture. So there are a few bad apples in the bunch, can we stop making generalizations now?

 

[Trakball]

Soundwave, go look up Dee Barnes.

You don't get my point, so I'm not going to push it any further. You sound like me when I was younger and I remember how hard it was to get me to change my mind about anything, so, forget it.

And finally, just so I can stir the flames even higher... Dre is madly overrated. He can't rap (Jay-Z ghostwrote most of his verses on "The Chronic 2001" and The D.O.C. did the same on "The Chronic") and he ain't shit unless he's sampling George Clinton.

 

[G4life98]

Soundwave, go look up Dee Barnes.

You don't get my point, so I'm not going to push it any further. You sound like me when I was younger and I remember how hard it was to get me to change my mind about anything, so, forget it.

And finally, just so I can stir the flames even higher... Dre is madly overrated. He can't rap (Jay-Z ghostwrote most of his verses on "The Chronic 2001" and The D.O.C. did the same on "The Chronic") and he ain't shit unless he's sampling George Clinton.

why would one useless opinion stir the flames any higher...egotrip much :lol

 

[Trakball]

why would one useless opinion stir the flames any higher...egotrip much :lol

:lol

???

 

[soundwave05]

Who cares if you think he's overrated?

What exactly is your point now anyway?

That all hip hop artists are violent?

Yeah, I agree what happened at the Vibe awards is sad, but I think it's also letting other people unwind their own pent up little grudges and prejudices that really have nothing to do with the event in question.

This is Suge Knight acting like a jackass -- again. Simple as that.

 

[Trakball]

Who cares if you think he's overrated?

Well, I'm not responding to my own post...

What exactly is your point now anyway? That all hip hop artists are violent?

Just forget it man. Rap is outta control.

 

[soundwave05]

Suge Knight is out of control and very possibly linked to murder. But don't even tell me the entire rap industry is like Suge. Most people in the rap industry and music industry is general think of Suge as being crazy.

The general rap industry ... its not different than what happens in the rock business.

And you guys are suckers if you think rappers actually do all of the stuff they rap about it.

It's clearly over the top and intended to be that way.

 

[Trakball]

EPMD quotes are wasted on this bunch

 

[soundwave05]

EPMD quotes are wasted on this bunch

Yeah, you know your old school hip-hop, WE GET IT.

Sheesh.

All I'm saying is its stupid to generalize groups of people like this, even if you don't like the music.

 

[Trakball]

You're so right!

 

[Mike Works]

Uh, nobody died here either.

And Tupac? How's he doing?

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

The Vibe Awards was produced by a guy named Jimmy Henchman.

:lol

 

[Socreges]

Lastly, it can also be attributed to the media the bad image of rap. It helps explain the comments rife with ignorance in this thread. Of course a fight at the Grammies would not be publicized this widely. A fight at the Vibe awards, or Source awards would be publicized and would appeal to more people than, say, fisticuffs at the MTV awards. This has been the trend for ages, and I hope that people know what I am alluding to. The selective news coverage of certain events involving certain people vs another group of people. I'm not radical or anything, but even I can see where this is another instance of such biased media. Most people in todays mindset can identify with those types of stories than the reverse.

Seriously, how stupid.

 

[karasu]

And Tupac? How's he doing?

WTF does Tupac have to do with anything? He was killed by other rappers? Since when was that proven? Did they get Marvin Gaye and Selena too??

jesus

 

[FortNinety]

I used to be a big hip hop fan back in the day, but had to walk away when it became nothing more than anger and hatred directed at groups, and even at amongst each other. And people wonder why rappers get such a bad rap?

Some say that you can't blame the bad apples, but considering that much or rap is based upon image, I really don't see too many of these esteemed "artists" (and I use that term very loosely) doing much to change the negative stereotype and keep order in their house.

 

[Mike Works]

Marvin Gaye was killed by his father. Selina was killed by a crazed fan.

So Tupac, Notorious BIG, Mac Dre, Freaky Tah, Soulja Slim, Seagram Miller, Big L, Jam Master Jay were all gunned down. I have a sneaking suspicion that at least one or two of those murders may have been connected with another rapper or rap label. Just a hunch!

And while some of these referenced, like Lisa Lopez, aren't constructive to the current debate at hand, I did find this through Google;

King Tubby, who invented the dubbing process that was popularized by rappers, was murdered in 1989 when he was 58 years old.

Rapper Michael Menson, of the group Double Trouble died in 1989 at age 29 when a gang soaked him in gasoline and set him afire. Double Trouble had a hit that same year titled “Street Tuff.”

MC Rock, rapper with The Almighty RSO, was stabbed to death in 1990 at roughly age 28.

Trouble T-Roy (Troy Dixon), rapper with Heavy D and the Boyz, fell off a balcony after a concert in 1990 at age 22.

Brandon Mitchell, rapper with Wreckx-N-Effect, was shot to death in 1990 at about age 20 during an argument over a woman.

Charizma, rapper with Peanut Butter Wolf, was shot to death in 1993 at age 20.

Deah Dame, rapper with Damian Dame, died in a car crash in 1994 at age 35.

Mr. Cee, rapper with R.B.L. Posse (Ruthless By Law), was murdered in 1995.

Tupac Shakur (2Pac), a gangsta rap superstar, was shot to death in 1996 at age 25.

Rapper Seagram Miller was shot to death in Oakland, California, in August 1996. He was 26.

Notorious B.I.G., gangsta rap star, was shot to death in 1997 at age 24. This was only three years after the release of his successful album “Ready to Die.” This album was filled with cursing, violence, and immorality. One cut was titled “Suicidal Thoughts,” and Notorious B.I.G. sang, “When I die, -----, I wanna go to hell.”

Fat Pat (Patrick Hawkins), rapper who recorded immoral songs, was shot to death in 1998 at age 26.

Luis “Papo” Deschamps, rapper with Sandy y Papo, died in a car crash in 1999 at age 23.

Malcolm Howard, rapper with 4 Black Faces, was shot to death execution style in 1999 at roughly age 30.

MC Big L (Lamont Coleman), rapper with Diggin’ In the Crates Crew, was shot to death outside his home in 1999 at age 23.

Rapper MC Ant was shot to death in 1999 at roughly age 35.

Matthew Roberts of Blaggers I.T.A. died in February 2000 at age 36 of drug related causes.

Q-Don (Raeneal Quann), rapper, was shot to death outside a Philadelphia nightclub in April 2000 at roughly age 30.

Yusef Afloat Muhammad, rapper with The Nonce, was found dead alongside a Los Angeles freeway in May 2000 at roughly age 28.

Bruce Mayfield (aka Chip Banks and Bankie), rapper with The American Cream Team, was shot to death over a money dispute in November 2000 at age 30.

Lloyd “Mooseman” Roberts, rapper who worked with Iggy Pop, Ice-T, and Body Count, died in a drive by shooting in February 2001 at roughly age 28.

Prince Ital Joe, reggae and rapper who worked with Tupac and Snoop Dogg, died in a car crash in May 2001 at age 37 or 38.

Tonnie Sheppard, rapper and cousin of rapper Haf-A-Mil, was stabbed to death in a recording studio during a fight with studio executives in May 2001 at age 38 or 39.

Coughnut, rapper with Ill Mannered Posse, died in a car crash in October 2001.

Lisa “Left Eye” Lopes, singer with rap group TLC, died in a car crash in April 2002 at age 30. A few days before her own death, Lisa had hit and killed a 10-year-old boy with her car in Honduras.

Jam Master Jay, rapper with the popular group Run-DMC, was shot to death in his recording studio in October 2002 at age 37 by an unknown assailant. This is the latest in a long string of violence associated with rappers, who produce a style of music that is infamously violent in nature (though Jam Master Jay himself was more positive than most).

In November 2003, Anthony “Wolf” Jones,” 38-year-old former bodyguard for “P. Diddy” Combs, was shot to death in a gunfight outside an Atlanta nightclub. $7,000 was found on Jones’ body. Jones and Combs had been acquitted of gun possession and bribery charges stemming from a 1999 shooting inside a New York nightclub.

In December 2003, federal prosecutor Jonathan Luna was gunned down during the trial of rapper Deon Lionnel Smith, who was accused of running a violent drug ring.

Rapper Juston Potts (nicknamed “Kanyva”) murdered his promoter on June 7, 2004, because “she told him he didn’t have the talent to sell records” (“Aspiring rapper arrested in killing,” San Francisco Chronicle, June 8, 2004).

This doesn't happen in any other music industry/sect, or at least not nearly on this broad a scale.