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[Horse Armour]

http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/technology-blog/2012/07/sony%E2%80%99s-ps-vita-uses-chip-on-chip-sip-%E2%80%93-3d-but-not-3d/

Above I said that we found memory, but actually the only discrete memory that we found on the motherboard was 4 GB of Toshiba flash

Don't know if this is new but apparently Vita has 4GB of inbuilt flash memory. I get that it needs a large part of it to store the OS but it can't be so much that there's no space left over to use for save games, something miniscule like 256mb would do and would leave 3.75GB of space for the Vita OS which is more than enough considering the PS3 OS uses less than 256MB and Android only uses a couple hundred MBs while having a lot more functionality than the Vita OS. Why do we still need memory cards when the Vita theorectically has space left over for save games.

 

[Toki767]

Probably because memory cards are where Sony profits on the thing.

 

[staticneuron]

Don't know if this is new but apparently Vita has 4GB of inbuilt flash memory. I get that it needs a large part of it to store the OS but it can't be so much that there's no space left over to use for save games, something miniscule like 256mb would do and would leave 3.75GB of space for the Vita OS which is more than enough considering the PS3 OS uses less than 256MB and Android only uses a couple hundred MBs while having a lot more functionality than the Vita OS. Why do we still need memory cards when the Vita theorectically has space left over for save games.

Probably that space is promised for dev use. Could be space for dev to swap resources for games.

 

[Matt]

Probably because memory cards are where Sony profits on the thing.

Yep. The cost of the memory cards which everyone needs subsidizes the cost of the Vita.

 

[patsu]

I would love it if VitaOS snapshot game run-time image to the built-in Flash to allow seamless multi-tasking. I was a little worried whether the external memcard is fast enough (with all the extra security features). If it has 4Gb built-in Flash, then I think it's much more feasible.

 

[slaughterking]

You don't know how much the OS actually needs and it can't hurt to be on the safe side as far as future updates go. And who knows if it is even technically feasible to use that memory for anything other than the OS.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Patches and things run up pretty big. OS stuff and background downloading of patches has to go somewhere.

 

[Massa]

nm.

 

[jiggles]

Are the 4GB cards expensive?

 

[Pie and Beans]

Are the 4GB cards expensive?

If you somehow manage to buy a Vita in a low online price and not in a bundle offer with a 4gb or 8gb card thrown in for free, you're doing it wrong. I got an 8gb with mine for free at launch with Amazon UK's launch bundle deals.

 

[spwolf]

http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/technology-blog/2012/07/sony%E2%80%99s-ps-vita-uses-chip-on-chip-sip-%E2%80%93-3d-but-not-3d/


Don't know if this is new but apparently Vita has 4GB of inbuilt flash memory. I get that it needs a large part of it to store the OS but it can't be so much that there's no space left over to use for save games, something miniscule like 256mb would do and would leave 3.75GB of space for the Vita OS which is more than enough considering the PS3 OS uses less than 256MB and Android only uses a couple hundred MBs while having a lot more functionality than the Vita OS. Why do we still need memory cards when the Vita theorectically has space left over for save games.

actually, doesnt Android use 2 GB of space? And 8 GB card is only $18 these days anyway. Problem is not 2 GB or 8 GB, but you will need a lot more if you want to download games.

 

[Auto_aim1]

Hmm, why wasn't this discovered earlier? Leaving even 100 MB free for save games would have been enough.

 

[NeoRausch]

You don't know how much the OS actually needs and it can't hurt to be on the safe side as far as future updates go. And who knows if it is even technically feasible to use that memory for anything other than the OS.

NO OS needs 4 Gigs.


Edit:

console OS it is.

 

[Berordn]

NO OS needs 4 Gigs.

It might if it needs some of that space reserved for swap.

 

[NeoRausch]

It might if it needs some of that space reserved for swap.

i'm no vita expert. What's swap?

 

[patsu]

i'm no vita expert. What's swap?

Just treat it as "working memory" to juggle activities. Seriously, I would really <3 <3 <3 it if we can swipe between apps and games without worrying about losing state.

 

[Joni]

i'm no vita expert. What's swap?

If the RAM is full older commands are swapped to the internal memory so they can be switched out again when needed. So if you're running a game and it requires more RAM, a part of the commands are temporarily stored on the flash until they're needed again. It is mainly used to support multitasking on PC.

 

[NeoRausch]

If the RAM is full older commands are swapped to the internal memory so they can be switched out again when needed. So if you're running a game and it requires more RAM, a part of the commands are temporarily stored on the flash until they're needed again. It is mainly used to support multitasking on PC.

Ah kay! Thanks for the answere. But really, 4 gigs for that in a console? I really can't imagine that in a console OS.

 

[Camp Lo]

Probably because memory cards are where Sony profits on the thing.

I figured that when a GameStop employee said they send used Memory cards back to Sony instead of selling them, which forces us to buy brand new.

 

[patsu]

Ah kay! Thanks for the answere. But really, 4 gigs for that in a console? I really can't imagine that in a console OS.

e.g., The WebKit browser can use lot's of memory if you keep documents opened at the same time.

 

[slaughterking]

The YouTube app surely needs a lot of memory, too. I buffered a complete 90 minutes movie on it.

 

[Joni]

Ah kay! Thanks for the answere. But really, 4 gigs for that in a console? I really can't imagine that in a console OS.

I haven't seen how the Vita runs, but on PCs for instance it isn't limited to the OS. It allows games to use more RAM than that which is available.

 

[onQ123]

Maybe that's needed for things like the Little Big Planet Cross Controls & things like that where the PS3 sends the app over to the Vita, or when their is one person with a game & they want to play against someone else on the Vita who don't own the game & they let you share the game & lots of other stuff that they plan to do with the Vita.

 

[Syntsui]

How much is a 32GB card in your countries? Here it's like US$120,00 - US$150,00.

 

[Gravijah]

How much is a 32GB card in your countries? Here it's like US$120,00 - US$150,00.

$81.61 atm on Amazon.

 

[Syntsui]

$81.61 atm on Amazon.

Too bad they don't ship to Brazil.

 

[fluffydelusions]

4gb won't get you very far + that 4gb is for OS, updates etc

 

[rpmurphy]

It might if it needs some of that space reserved for swap.

Wouldn't flash memory be a poor medium for swap and temp space though, or does it really not matter that much in actual practice?

 

[Eusis]

$81.61 atm on Amazon.

Combined with the $50 credit offers shortly ago and I sorta wish I waited on a Vita. Should've held to the "when Gravity Rush hits" rule afterall! Or at least Disgaea 3, but I don't think the deals were running when that came out. Could've waited anyway though.

 

[Gravijah]

Combined with the $50 credit offers shortly ago and I sorta wish I waited on a Vita. Should've held to the "when Gravity Rush hits" rule afterall! Or at least Disgaea 3, but I don't think the deals were running when that came out. Could've waited anyway though.

the $50 credit is part of the reason i finally caved. hard to turn down a 30 dollar 32GB card.

 

[dr_rus]

I've got my 16GB card with Vita. I don't need more memory cards at all whether they're expensive or not.

 

[entremet]

I've got my 16GB card with Vita. I don't need more memory cards at all whether they're expensive or not.

I guess you buy packaged games mostly.

 

[To Far Away Times]

Sony went with expensive, proprietary memory cards for a reason...

 

[injurai]

I don't really care that Sony is doing this because I want the Vita to succeed. I understand that consoles now really struggle on launch and don't shine until later on.

 

[aeolist]

Wouldn't flash memory be a poor medium for swap and temp space though, or does it really not matter that much in actual practice?

Flash is actually perfect for caching and swap

 

[Lupin the Third]

I figured that when a GameStop employee said they send used Memory cards back to Sony instead of selling them, which forces us to buy brand new.

They probably just send them in to GameStop Refurbishing HQ, where they get cleared of any and all residual data before being shipped out to Random GameStop X for resale as "used." That's how they handled used Xbox 360 hard drives, too.

 

[dr_rus]

I guess you buy packaged games mostly.

Not at all. But I'm playing one game at a time mostly.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

Doesn't Vita reserve 256mb of the 512 system ram pool for the OS? Why would they need to do that if they have 4gb of flash?

 

[aeolist]

Doesn't Vita reserve 256mb of the 512 system ram pool for the OS? Why would they need to do that if they have 4gb of flash?

Because flash memory isn't RAM

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Doesn't Vita reserve 256mb of the 512 system ram pool for the OS? Why would they need to do that if they have 4gb of flash?

System RAM would still be faster, and flash memory isn't true RAM anyway.

 

[mohsinkhan]

Doesn't Vita reserve 256mb of the 512 system ram pool for the OS? Why would they need to do that if they have 4gb of flash?

Yeah I think your right, maybe there is some on reserve for future features? 4 gigs seems like a lot though.

 

[Respawn]

http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/technology-blog/2012/07/sony%E2%80%99s-ps-vita-uses-chip-on-chip-sip-%E2%80%93-3d-but-not-3d/


Don't know if this is new but apparently Vita has 4GB of inbuilt flash memory. I get that it needs a large part of it to store the OS but it can't be so much that there's no space left over to use for save games, something miniscule like 256mb would do and would leave 3.75GB of space for the Vita OS which is more than enough considering the PS3 OS uses less than 256MB and Android only uses a couple hundred MBs while having a lot more functionality than the Vita OS. Why do we still need memory cards when the Vita theorectically has space left over for save games.

Are you an electronics engineer? You don't know why but you type this up because you saw a link to the analysis in the other thread. These threads boggle the mind.
You think Sony hid it and is wasting it just so they can charge you for memory cards? Read that back and you should realize how ridiculous it sounds.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Sony gotta eat.

 

[Mr Swine]

Flash is actually perfect for caching and swap

It all boils down to if the flash memory is 22nm or 32nm. Flash memory is like SSD and will probably deplete itself if it gets written to many times

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

Because flash memory isn't RAM

System RAM would still be faster, and flash memory isn't true RAM anyway.

So why even put the flash memory in there if it doesn't lower the OS footprint? Seems like a wasted cost, no? I was hoping the 16GB flash rumor for the PS4's OS would of meant a much lower OS footprint

 

[aeolist]

So why even put the flash memory in there if it doesn't lower the OS footprint? Seems like a wasted cost, no? I was hoping the 16GB flash rumor for the PS4's OS would of meant a much lower OS footprint

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paging

 

[neptunes]

You can find a 4gb mem card for like $10-$15 if you haven't already gotten one for free

 

[Brad Grenz]

I would love it if VitaOS snapshot game run-time image to the built-in Flash to allow seamless multi-tasking. I was a little worried whether the external memcard is fast enough (with all the extra security features). If it has 4Gb built-in Flash, then I think it's much more feasible.

I think that's exactly what this flash memory is currently used for: seamless multitasking and instant sleeping.

 

[Joni]

So why even put the flash memory in there if it doesn't lower the OS footprint? Seems like a wasted cost, no? I was hoping the 16GB flash rumor for the PS4's OS would of meant a much lower OS footprint

Like explained before it can be used to ease multitasking and give a bit of extra breathing space for games. It is not RAM so you can't run the OS from there, but it can help your RAM.

 

[blu]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paging

Do we know for a fact Vita does actual memory paging, and not, say, suspending and swapping out of background apps? Because that would be a first in the console space.