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[YuShtink]

I make just over 80k living in LA. Another 9k a year in taxes would fucking HURT.

And sorry if it sounds selfish, but I already went through college and currently owe 55k in student loans, which I've paid down from 65 and continue to chip away at. I'm not really interested in sacrificing more of my own money right now while I try to pay off the loans so OTHER people can go to school for free. Maybe someday, but right now it feels like a slap in the face.

Yea healthcare would be nice but while mine's not amazing coverage I only pay $3500 a year currently. That's 6k I'd basically be paying in charity.

 

[MBison]

Get ready to, effectively, be called an entitled piece of poop.

I know I must be a terrible person not to want to pay more taxes!

I donate more than that tax hike to charity every year btw. I'm sooooo entitled.

That tax hike is insane. Hilary has my vote.

 

[bomb]

At least in charity you know where that money is actually going (for the most part). Governments shift money around like crazy. Lottery(which needs reformed) being a prime example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PK-netuhHA

 

[Azzanadra]

If this thread is any indication, America aint ready. :/



You are very fortunate.

Nor will they ever be ready to take the necessary steps. At this point, I feel like America should just bring back Ronald Reagan and make him the eternal ruler of the USA. That should suite their needs (if this thread is any indication to go by) real good. Bernie Sanders is a visionary, he could have been the one to bring America to the modern age of equality, but alas....

GAF is primarily leftist, there is no doubt about that. So I ask, what is so progressive about only caring for your own needs and not the poor man, the downtrodden man? You're on a videogame forums. That's a luxury many can only dream of. You're better off than you think. Also, a lot of the progressiveness here is for the downtrodden of society such as minorities as oppressed groups such as women and homosexuals. Would you not also say them, that the poor are also worthy of respect and deserve support? The common rhetoric that gets thrown around in this thread is that you worked for where you are. My answer to that is everybody works. Poor people aren't lazy, its not like they don't just sit around twiddling there thumbs.

 

[finalflame]

I make just over 80k living in LA. Another 9k a year in taxes would fucking HURT.

And sorry if it sounds selfish, but I already went through college and currently owe 55k in student loans, which I've paid down from 65 and continue to chip away at. I'm not really interested in sacrificing more of my own money right now while I try to pay off the loans so OTHER people can go to school for free. Maybe someday, but right now it feels like a slap in the face.

Yea healthcare would be nice but while mine's not amazing coverage I only pay $3500 a year currently. That's 6k I'd basically be paying in charity.

Yup, I'm in the EXACT same boat as you brother. I make literally just over 80k living in the Bay Area, Fuck being taxed another 9k; to say it would hurt would be an understatement.

Also owe 30k in student loans paid down from 40. I'm with you all the way. People acting like this is universally a good and fair thing for society seem out of touch. Just because you make 80k doesn't mean you can afford to give an additional 11% of it away.

 

[MBison]

At least in charity you know where that money is actually going (for the most part). Governments shift money around like crazy. Lottery money being a prime example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PK-netuhHA

Yes. I research charities vigorously so I know I'm not giving to an organization using 8% of donations or something terrible so they can pay a CEO or board members the rest.

 

[Tesseract]

The era of big neoliberalism has begin.

 

[YuShtink]

Yup, I'm in the EXACT same boat as you brother. I make literally just over 80k living in the Bay Area, Fuck being taxed another 9k; to say it would hurt would be an understatement.

Also owe 30k in student loans paid down from 40. I'm with you all the way. People acting like this is universally a good and fair thing for society seem out of touch. Just because you make 80k doesn't mean you can afford to give an additional 11% of it away.

Yea I mean, 6k a year is what I pay for MY CAR. That's A LOT of money. I prob wouldn't even be able to take my yearly trip to visit my family on the east coast. Fuuuuck that.

 

[Damaniel]

Nor will they ever be ready to take the necessary steps. At this point, I feel like America should just bring back Ronald Reagan and make him the eternal ruler of the USA. That should suite their needs (if this thread is any indication to go by) real good. Bernie Sanders is a visionary, he could have been the one to bring America to the modern age of equality, but alas....

GAF is primarily leftist, there is no doubt about that. So I ask, what is so progressive about only caring for your own needs and not the poor man, the downtrodden man? You're on a videogame forums. That's a luxury many can only dream of. You're better off than you think. Also, a lot of the progressiveness here is for the downtrodden of society such as minorities as oppressed groups such as women and homosexuals. Would you not also say them, that the poor are also worthy of respect and deserve support? The common rhetoric that gets thrown around in this thread is that you worked for where you are. My answer to that is everybody works. Poor people aren't lazy, its not like they don't just sit around twiddling there thumbs.

FYI, shaming people into enacting your policies isn't the way to go about it. I'm all for UHC and actually support this level of taxation to get there, but you're talking about amounts of money that will affect real people in real ways, ways you can't dismiss because 'Europe does it'. We aren't Europe. Do you even have a job, or a house, or a family? Do you have student loans or a car payment? There are lots of pro-Bernie college students who love his policies, but who also haven't had any real responsibility for even a single day of their lives. It's easy to tell us all we have to drop everything and become Europe if you've never had a job or had to pay for housing, food and transportation.

I like Bernie and his ideas, but his plan of dumping a huge new tax burden on people with no phase in, little warning or time to plan, and no regard for peoples' existing obligations, is irresponsible and frankly stupid (and certainly not the sign of a person fit to run the country). If you want UHC, you have to implement it in a way that people will actually agree with; incrementally and with obvious benefit (and understanding of costs) every step of the way.

 

[finalflame]

Yea I mean, 6k a year is what I pay for MY CAR. That's A LOT of money. I prob wouldn't even be able to take my yearly trip to visit my family on the east coast. Fuuuuck that.

Also have family on the east coast I need to visit yearly, or else I can't see them. Not willing to support universal healthcare at the cost of not being able to visit family and afford to pay down my debt. My work already fully pays for my healthcare, dental, and vision.

 

[YuShtink]

Also have family on the east coast I need to visit yearly, or else I can't see them. Not willing to support universal healthcare at the cost of not being able to visit family and afford to pay down my debt. My work already fully pays for my healthcare, dental, and vision.

Ah yea that's even more motivation for you then. I'm technically freelance so I get no coverage from work.

 

[Tesseract]

 

[travisbickle]

Families with 2 children voting against a future of free university education? I'm guessing under the current system they believe at some point costs will stop increasing?

 

[Paskil]

An additional $4,500 in taxes would be pretty significant for me. I would be willing to pay that if we actually had single payer healthcare in this country. Of course, his revolution would actually need to materialize at some point for that to happen.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I know I must be a terrible person not to want to pay more taxes!

I donate more than that tax hike to charity every year btw. I'm sooooo entitled.

That tax hike is insane. Hilary has my vote.

Taxes should be voluntary

 

[womfalcs3]

It doesn't matter if you like or don't like this plan. Congress won't pass it. That's the problem with Bernie. All the promises that get the naive youth excited won't see the light of day.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

If you're in healthcare, I'd reccomed relocating to West Virginia. We're all fat, have diabetes and heart disease, so you have job security. You can pretty easily support a household of 4 with around 65k a year. (Around what your average RN makes)

We also have a couple of nice mountains left that haven't been raped by the coal industry.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Families with 2 children voting against a future of free university education? I'm guessing under the current system they believe at some point costs will stop increasing?

More like Voting for a future where public universities haven't devolved into the same embarrassing pile of shit that we call the US high school system.

When everyone can go to college free, quality of education will be absolutely terrible.

 

[bomb]

Families with 2 children voting against a future of free university education? I'm guessing under the current system they believe at some point costs will stop increasing?

If it's free, does it still maintain value? I say it does not. Free stuff always has less value than if you had to pay for it yourself.

There should definitely be a cap on interest rates though and a better understanding in high school about interest rates and student loans.

 

[WonkyPanda]

Families with 2 children voting against a future of free university education? I'm guessing under the current system they believe at some point costs will stop increasing?

Because free university isn't some panacea to fix the societal woes of our education system.

I can get behind UHC; everyone needs it. Free higher education, with the cost it would take? No, can't support it. I am all for more in-state subsidization, but it shouldn't be a federal matter.

EDIT: Why not make vocational schools or community colleges free?

 

[Adaren]

There are better ways to make college accessible than paying everyone's tuition. Remember when Hillary said that she didn't want people to pay for Trump's kids to go to college? This is why.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Families with 2 children voting against a future of free university education? I'm guessing under the current system they believe at some point costs will stop increasing?

When it means families getting by are now going to get a substantial amount of money taken from them that affects their ability to take care of there kids now, of course they're not going to be on board for something that won't affect them for likely over a decade.

 

[Zeus Molecules]

There are better ways to make college accessible than paying everyone's tuition. Remember when Hillary said that she didn't want people to pay for Trump's kids to go to college? This is why.

Ehh Hilary can spin that however she wants College should be free or subsidized to being almost Nill. All that debt does is force people into a lifetime of jobs they hate to pay for just 4 years of their lives.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Families with 2 children voting against a future of free university education? I'm guessing under the current system they believe at some point costs will stop increasing?

It's probably worth noting that making the price of public tertiary education free doesn't actually do anything as far as I'm aware to curb escalation of costs. Although, I'm not entirely clear on how exactly Sanders proposal would work practically.

I don't think either Democratic candidate addresses this properly.

 

[Adaren]

Ehh Hilary can spin that however she wants College should be free or subsidized to being almost Nill. All that debt does is force people into a lifetime of jobs they hate to pay for just 4 years of their lives.

Hillary's plan is debt-free college.

 

[Box]

That's not how it works though. There is no $X + $Y for Health Insurance. There's $X + Health Insurance. When people are applying for a job they negotiate for their salary at whatever $X is, and then see if the benefits fit their check list. There's no dollar amount associated for the benefit and realistically, the cost of that benefit is constantly changing for the company while the salary is fixed until a raise is given. So the dollar amount value of that benefit is really never known to the employee and they really don't think of it to have value other than here's a list of things I get too.

So when it comes time to the government taking over healthcare, to the employee, they're going to see that they get healthcare still regardless of who covers it. The companies know this and they'll simply pocket the savings themselves because to the employee, it's not a dollar amount that's part of their pay even though it technically is. To the employee, they've lost nothing when in reality they've been devalued. Knowing that this is the mind set, companies won't give it back to you because they can get away with it. At best, they may give you a small fraction added, and you'll just think yay you got a raise when in reality they took something of value from you.

So the reality is you get screwed once from the companies who pocket the savings, and then on top of that you get screwed again cuz now your taxes went up to pay for healthcare and now you've got a double whammy against you for something that you used to get. You've lost twice as much in value and the companies will get away with it and the employee will blame it on the government. They get off scott free because people don't really realize what just happened.

So anyone thinking the companies will give it all back or even most of it back are super naive. There's no way that's going to happen. At best you'll get a small fraction of it, and at worst you'll get nothing and pay more taxes on top of it.

The company pays some $Y on Health Insurance associated with that employee. The employee might not know the value of Y exactly, but people can tell the difference between a job with health insurance benefits and one without. It's not just extra like free coffee in the office.

Moreover, most companies are already paying the lowest wages that they are able to do given market conditions. They can't suddenly cut everyone's $Y in benefits because $X + $Y is already bumping up against the lowest they can get away with. If they could just cut $Y worth of value from employee wages, you'd already be getting paid $(X-Y).

This outlook sounds really defeatist, honestly. The way corporations work is that they have a lot of incentive to keep wages low, but they're not evil. They're not going to decide everyone gets paid less to punish people for electing Bernie.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

My employer pays the entire insurance premium I have, and I already have graduated and have 90k in student loans. Sure raise my taxes 2k, why not.

 

[Dead Man]

I am. I've also worked extremely hard for it and continue to work extremely hard for it. And if I want to be charitable and give more of my income, that should be my decision not my governments.

Go secede then. The government is who makes decisions about taxes, based on the platforms they take to elections. Go be an island.

 

[benjipwns]

Bernie Sanders is a visionary

Yep, it's amazing really.

Our goal is to enable every American to secure quality health care at reasonable cost. We pledge a balanced approach—one that takes into account the problems of providing sufficient medical personnel and facilities.

Last year the President proposed one of the most all-inclusive health programs in our history. But the opposition Congress has dragged its feet and most of this program has yet to be enacted into law.

To increase the supply of medical services, we will continue to support programs to help our schools graduate more physicians, dentists, nurses, and allied health personnel, with special emphasis on family practitioners and others who deliver primary medical care.

We will also encourage the use of such allied personnel as doctors' assistants, foster new area health education centers, channel more services into geographic areas which now are medically deprived, and improve the availability of emergency medical care;

We note with pride that the President has already signed the most comprehensive health manpower legislation ever enacted.

To improve efficiency in providing health and medical care, we have developed and will continue to encourage a pluralistic approach to the delivery of quality health care, including innovative experiments such as health maintenance organizations. We also support efforts to develop ambulatory medical care services to reduce hospitalization and keep costs down.

To reduce the cost of health care, we stress our efforts to curb inflation in the economy; we will also expand the supply of medical services and encourage greater cost consciousness in hospitalization and medical care. In doing this we realize the importance of the doctor-patient relationship and the necessity of insuring that individuals have freedom of choice of health providers.

To assure access to basic medical care for all our people, we support a program financed by employers, employees and the Federal Government to provide comprehensive health insurance coverage, including insurance against the cost of long-term and catastrophic illnesses and accidents and renal failure which necessitates dialysis, at a cost which all Americans can afford. The National Health Insurance Partnership plan and the Family Health Insurance Plan proposed by the President meet these specifications. They would build on existing private health insurance systems, not destroy them.

...

We continue to support the concept of comprehensive community mental health centers.

Only through full employment can we reduce the burden on working people. We are determined to make economic security a matter of right. This means a job with decent pay and good working conditions for everyone willing and able to work and an adequate income for those unable to work.

...

The next Administration must end the present welfare system and replace it with an income security program which places cash assistance in an appropriate context with all of the measures outlined above, adding up to an earned income approach to ensure each family an income substantially more than the poverty level ensuring standards of decency and health, as officially defined in the area. Federal income assistance will supplement the income of working poor people and assure an adequate income for those unable to work. With full employment and simpler, fair administration, total costs will go down, and with federal financing the burden on local and state budgets will be eased. The program will protect current benefit goals during the transitional period.

The system of income protection which replaces welfare must he a part of the full employment policy which assures every American a job at a fair wage under conditions which make use of his ability and provide an opportunity for advancement.

The increasing concentration of economic power in fewer and fewer hands. Five per cent of the American people control 90 per cent of our productive national wealth. Less than one per cent of all manufacturers have 88 per cent of the profits. Less than two per cent of the population now owns approximately 80 per cent of the nation's personally-held corporate stock, 90 per cent of the personally-held corporate bonds and nearly 100 per cent of the personally-held municipal bonds. The rest of the population—including all working men and women—pay too much for essential products and services because of national policy and market distortions.

To make democracy strong, our system of business enterprise and individual initiative must be free to gear its tremendous productive capacity to serve the greatest good of the greatest number.

We have defended and will continue to defend all legitimate business.

We have attacked and will continue to attack unbridled concentration of economic power and the exploitation of the consumer and the investor.

We have attacked the kind of banking which treated America as a colonial empire to exploit; the kind of securities business which regarded the Stock Exchange as a private gambling club for wagering other people's money; the kind of public utility holding companies which used consumers' and investors' money to suborn a free press, bludgeon legislatures and political conventions, and control elections against the interest of their customers and their security holders.

We have attacked the kind of business which levied tribute on all the rest of American business by the extortionate methods of monopoly.

We did not stop with attack—we followed through with the remedy. The American people found in themselves, through the democratic process, ability to meet the economic problems of the average American business where concentrated power had failed.

We found a broken and prostrate banking and financial system. We restored it to health by strengthening banks, insurance companies and other financial institutions. We have insured 62 million bank accounts, and protected millions of small investors in the security and commodity markets. We have thus revived confidence, safeguarded thrift, and opened the road to all honorable business.

Exchanges in securities and commodities. We advocate quicker methods of realizing on assets for the relief of depositors of suspended banks, and a more rigid supervision of national banks for the protection of depositors and the prevention of the use of their moneys in speculation to the detriment of local credits.

The severance of affiliated security companies from, and the divorce of the investment banking business from, commercial banks, and further restriction of federal reserve banks in permitting the use of federal reserve facilities for speculative purposes.

...

We condemn the improper and excessive use of money in political activities.

We condemn paid lobbies of special interests to influence members of Congress and other public servants by personal contact.

We condemn action and utterances of high public officials designed to influence stock exchange prices.

We condemn the open and cover resistance of administrative officials to every effort made by Congressional Committees to curtail the extravagant expenditures of the Government and to revoke improvident subsidies granted to favorite interests.

The supreme duty of the Nation is the conservation of human resources through an enlightened measure of social and industrial justice. We pledge ourselves to work unceasingly in State and Nation for:

...

Minimum wage standards for working women, to provide a "living wage" in all industrial occupations;

...

The abolition of the convict contract labor system; substituting a system of prison production for governmental consumption only; and the application of prisoners' earnings to the support of their dependent families;

...

The protection of home life against the hazards of sickness, irregular employment and old age through the adoption of a system of social insurance adapted to American use;

We believe that true popular government, justice and prosperity go hand in hand, and, so believing, it is our purpose to secure that large measure of general prosperity which is the fruit of legitimate and honest business, fostered by equal justice and by sound progressive laws.

We demand that the test of true prosperity shall be the benefits conferred thereby on all the citizens, not confined to individuals or classes, and that the test of corporate efficiency shall be the ability better to serve the public; that those who profit by control of business affairs shall justify that profit and that control by sharing with the public the fruits thereof.

We therefore demand a strong National regulation of inter-State corporations. The corporation is an essential part of modern business. The concentration of modem business, in some degree, is both inevitable and necessary for national and international business efficiency. But the existing concentration of vast wealth under a corporate system, unguarded and uncontrolled by the Nation, has placed in the hands of a few men enormous, secret, irresponsible power over the daily life of the citizen--a power insufferable in a free Government and certain of abuse.

This power has been abused, in monopoly of National resources, in stock watering, in unfair competition and unfair privileges, and finally in sinister influences on the public agencies of State and Nation. We do not fear commercial power, but we insist that it shall be exercised openly, under publicity, supervision and regulation of the most efficient sort, which will preserve its good while eradicating and preventing its ill.

To that end we urge the establishment of a strong Federal administrative commission of high standing, which shall maintain permanent active supervision over industrial corporations engaged in inter-State commerce, or such of them as are of public importance, doing for them what the Government now does for the National banks, and what is now done for the railroads by the Inter-State Commerce Commission.

Such a commission must enforce the complete publicity of those corporation transactions which are of public interest; must attack unfair competition, false capitalization and special privilege, and by continuous trained watchfulness guard and keep open equally all the highways of American commerce.

We charge that the controlling influence dominating both these parties have permitted the existing dreadful conditions to develop without serious effort to prevent or restrain them. Neither do they now promise us any substantial reform. They have agreed together to ignore, in the coming campaign, every issue but one. They propose to drown the outcries of a plundered people with the uproar of a sham battle over the tariff, so that capitalists, corporations, national banks, rings, trusts, watered stock, the demonetization of silver and the oppressions of the usurers may all be lost sight of. They propose to sacrifice our homes, lives, and children on the altar of mammon; to destroy the multitude in order to secure corruption funds from the millionaires.

...

We believe that the time has come when the financial corporations will either own the people or the people must own the banks, and should the government enter upon the work of owning and managing all financial institutions, we should favor an amendment to the Constitution by which all persons engaged in the government service shall be placed under a civil service regulation of the most rigid character, so as to prevent the increase of the power of the national administration by the use of such additional government employees.

Spoiler

With minor edits...in order. The 1972 Republican Platform, the 1972 Democratic Platform, the 1940 Democratic Platform, the 1936 Democratic Platform, the 1912 Progressive Party Platform, the 1892 Populist Party Platform. All of these parties won states*. Some even won the Presidency. *Or a state in McGovern's case.

 

[Wheatly]

Yup, I'm in the EXACT same boat as you brother. I make literally just over 80k living in the Bay Area, Fuck being taxed another 9k; to say it would hurt would be an understatement.

Also owe 30k in student loans paid down from 40. I'm with you all the way. People acting like this is universally a good and fair thing for society seem out of touch. Just because you make 80k doesn't mean you can afford to give an additional 11% of it away.

In addition to paying off ridiculous loans, I am barely able to afford the ridiculous housing cost here. These taxes would literally put me into debt if wages don't increase to make up for the cut in healthcare cost (which I either doubt they will, or will take a very long time).

 

[hastethedav]

Those extra taxes would destroy me. I'm already scraping by in LA. Had to move back in with my dad last year since my student loans are $500/mo

 

[Macam]

There are better ways to make college accessible than paying everyone's tuition. Remember when Hillary said that she didn't want people to pay for Trump's kids to go to college? This is why.

There are ways to address that (e.g., means testing), but given the current tax rates and loopholes available to someone like Trump (or Clinton), you're pretty much indirectly doing that way anyway. Not that it matters since nepotism is alive and well.

Not everyone needs to go to university to begin with (depends on what people want to do, labor needs, etc), and a greater focus on things like vocational schools and community colleges would help defer costs, provide higher level training, etc. There are also numerous ways of addressing existing student debt to more manageable levels so that such changes are just wholly forward looking (something that's mentioned but in sufficiently addressed by any candidate to date IMO).

 

[finalflame]

In addition to paying off ridiculous loans, I am barely able to afford the ridiculous housing cost here. These taxes would literally put me into debt if wages don't increase to make up for the cut in healthcare cost (which I either doubt they will, or will take a very long time).

Amen. 80k is barely a living wage if you want to live by yourself and not with roommates in a decent apartment close to work in the Bay Area, especially when you take into account the overall cost of living and California taxes.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

The combination of setting the exemption levels for the estate tax back to $3.5 million and all the extra taxes on banking, investing, and capital gains is really a one-two punch for family farmers. Even worse when the carbon tax raises fuel prices.

One of the major reasons they increased the estate tax exemption in 2009 was to protect family farmers, as even "cash-poor" farm and ranch operations can easily hit that level after all the land, buildings, livestock and heavy equipment is totaled up. Combine that with rural land being seen as a pretty well-known place for rich folks to stash cash thus potentially causing a pre-tax implementation price bubble, and you've got a lot of next-generation family farmers that won't be able to pay that tax bill when their parents die. They'll have to sell out to a corporate farming operation and move on.

There's no way in hell all these taxes get passed by congressmen from farming/ranching states. It's a pipe dream. Thus, all Bernie's lavish spending programs are also a pipe dream.

 

[Marty Chinn]

The company pays some $Y on Health Insurance associated with that employee. The employee might not know the value of Y exactly, but people can tell the difference between a job with health insurance benefits and one without. It's not just extra like free coffee in the office.

Moreover, most companies are already paying the lowest wages that they are able to do given market conditions. They can't suddenly cut everyone's $Y in benefits because $X + $Y is already bumping up against the lowest they can get away with. If they could just cut $Y worth of value from employee wages, you'd already be getting paid $(X-Y).

This outlook sounds really defeatist, honestly. The way corporations work is that they have a lot of incentive to keep wages low, but they're not evil. They're not going to decide everyone gets paid less to punish people for electing Bernie.

Yes, the company pays for part of health insurance currently. That's technically right but that's not the issue. The issue is the psychology of it. To the employee it is a perk, not a monetary value. In fact most employees have no idea what their health coverage is worth let alone what their employer pays for it. That alone means the company has all the power since the employee has no concept of what they should be compensated for. To top that off, the net result is they haven't lost anything in their eyes since they still have health coverage. The combination of these two gives the power to the companies to give as much or as little as they want and the employee won't be the wiser. That means companies will pay as little to nothing and get away with it. They will not pay you most of the value.

You have to ignore what is technically correct, but you fail to factor in the psychology and ignorance of the employee in to this. Hell this thread alone shows how ignorant people are about what things will cost. People who want UHC and who supported Bernie are balking at the notion that their taxes are going up substantially. If they couldn't see that coming to get those perks, what makes you think they have any concept of what their current health care is worth in dollar value and the fact that if it was switched from their employer to the government, the fact that they lost a certain amount of money that was being compensated for their employment?

So again, there is no $X + $Y for Health Insurance; there is only $X + Health Insurance as far as most employees are concerned and companies can easily take advantage of that. What's right and technically correct doesn't match up with what the reality will be.

 

[SaviourMK2]

You have reports saying Sander's math doesn't add up
You have reports saying Sander's math saves us billions


Which the fuck am I supposed to listen to?

Maybe we should give it a damn try and see what happens instead of guessing.

 

[SlimySnake]

Now imagine getting 15-30k per year and that's how most Americans are living without healthcare.

I dont need to imagine. I did that. I have worked minimum since i was 16 all through high school, community college and university for nearly 9 years. My mother still does. And now thanks to Obamacare and people like me who voted and supported Obama, she has some insurance. She can even quit her job now thanks to the expanded medicare.

Some of you talk like you dont have families. I think from this point onwards everyone in this thread should list how many people they support and where they live. I am in the tax bracket that is going to get hit with a $5k increase and i can promise you we are constantly making choices about how to spend money and when to take on debt. We aren't living a luxurious life like some of you seem to think.

• I live in Ohio and cant go and live in NY or Chicago where my friends and family live because with my current salary we simply wouldnt be able to afford a house we live in now in a working class neighborhood.
  
• We had to take on a $4k expense just last year because the windows barely kept the heat in. We had no money to pay it off so we took on debt.
  
• I paid over $13k in medical expenses the year my son was born. We got a nice $1k tax credit that year thanks to him that entirely went into his formula supply for the year. I am currently contesting a $2k bill sent by his doctor that my insurance didnt cover and just paid off $1k out of pocket maximum for another bill for my wife. ask anyone who has had a child recently and the medical bills for the missus almost never stop. And if i die tomorrow, my family will have little to no savings. I will leave my son a few thousand dollars that wont last him more than a few mortgage payments.
  
• We cant afford daycare for my son which is something i really want because studies show daycare really gives kids an advantage over those who dont. that hurts as a parent. but you guys wouldnt know that.

And lastly and this is where you guys are going to get super upset with what i have to say, but fuck it i am tired of reading all the condescending posts in this thread. It seem you all want all of us to become communists and throw away our dreams of moving into bigger houses, going on vacations abroad and sending our kids to Ivy League schools. I graduated and immediately set upon paying back my student loans. 7 years later i am nearly done. I made a lot of sacrifices these past seven years to pay it off and what do i get for it? a fucking $5k bill so you bernie bros can smoke weed all day and get free college education? No thanks.

I pay around 30% of my salary in Federal, State, City, Payroll and Property taxes. I am liberal who is happy to contribute back to the society. Taxes are already too high. Go tax the people who pay a flat 15% rate on stocks. Go tax the millionares who dont pay any payroll taxes after $100k. I lived on minimum wage and have busted my ass working 10-12 hour days getting to where i am today. And i am not done. And I know millions of people like me strive to do the same, but this is just going to make it harder and harder for people to get to the top.

 

[turtle553]

The problem with college costs is that because student loans are impossible to get rid of because of bankruptcy, there is no motivation to keep tuition down.

1) Tell every kid they need to go to college to have a future
2) Guarantee 18 year old kids can get as much money as it takes for #1
3) Schools build ridiculous facilities with climbing walls and other unnecessary crap to attract the kids from #2

Kids graduate with huge debt and are competing with every other kid that was told the same as #1. Graduated decide to go to grad school and go back to #2.

If the cost of schools isn't addressed, then free tuition will just be sending more kids who shouldn't go to schools.

A better solution would be more federal money to the schools with the conditions that they keep tuition low.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Free healthcare/school. Free healthcare/school. Needs
to be screamed anytime this info is spread.





This tax plan isn't gonna happen anyway.

Yeah it's a great plan, but you can't shove this through the current congress in any shape or form. But after the great GOP downfall and hopefully after 2020, this will then be a viable possibility.

Laying out the idea now is best vs let's say 8 years ago which would have been poltiical suicide. Now it's an unsettling idea, but it should slowly become more favourable in the future.

 

[Frozenprince]

I dont need to imagine. I did that. I have worked minimum since i was 16 all through high school, community college and university for nearly 9 years. My mother still does. And now thanks to Obamacare and people like me who voted and supported Obama, she has some insurance. She can even quit her job now thanks to the expanded medicare.

Some of you talk like you dont have families. I think from this point onwards everyone in this thread should list how many people they support and where they live. I am in the tax bracket that is going to get hit with a $5k increase and i can promise you we are constantly making choices about how to spend money and when to take on debt. We aren't living a luxurious life like some of you seem to think.

• I live in Ohio and cant go and live in NY or Chicago where my friends and family live because with my current salary we simply wouldnt be able to afford a house we live in now in a working class neighborhood.
  
• We had to take on a $4k expense just last year because the windows barely kept the heat in. We had no money to pay it off so we took on debt.
  
• I paid over $13k in medical expenses the year my son was born. We got a nice $1k tax credit that year thanks to him that entirely went into his formula supply for the year. I am currently contesting a $2k bill sent by his doctor that my insurance didnt cover and just paid off $1k out of pocket maximum for another bill for my wife. ask anyone who has had a child recently and the medical bills for the missus almost never stop. And if i die tomorrow, my family will have little to no savings. I will leave my son a few thousand dollars that wont last him more than a few mortgage payments.
  
• We cant afford daycare for my son which is something i really want because studies show daycare really gives kids an advantage over those who dont. that hurts as a parent. but you guys wouldnt know that.

And lastly and this is where you guys are going to get super upset with what i have to say, but fuck it i am tired of reading all the condescending posts in this thread. It seem you all want all of us to become communists and throw away our dreams of moving into bigger houses, going on vacations abroad and sending our kids to Ivy League schools. I graduated and immediately set upon paying back my student loans. 7 years later i am nearly done. I made a lot of sacrifices these past seven years to pay it off and what do i get for it? a fucking $5k bill so you bernie bros can smoke weed all day and get free college education? No thanks.

I pay around 30% of my salary in Federal, State, City, Payroll and Property taxes. I am liberal who is happy to contribute back to the society. Taxes are already too high. Go tax the people who pay a flat 15% rate on stocks. Go tax the millionares who dont pay any payroll taxes after $100k. I lived on minimum wage and have busted my ass working 10-12 hour days getting to where i am today. And i am not done. And I know millions of people like me strive to do the same, but this is just going to make it harder and harder for people to get to the top.

Man I wanna give you a high five so bad.

The condescension and open dismissal of people who can't handle the increase in tax burden in this thread really isn't okay.

 

[basic_element]

I dont need to imagine. I did that. I have worked minimum since i was 16 all through high school, community college and university for nearly 9 years. My mother still does. And now thanks to Obamacare and people like me who voted and supported Obama, she has some insurance. She can even quit her job now thanks to the expanded medicare.

Some of you talk like you dont have families. I think from this point onwards everyone in this thread should list how many people they support and where they live. I am in the tax bracket that is going to get hit with a $5k increase and i can promise you we are constantly making choices about how to spend money and when to take on debt. We aren't living a luxurious life like some of you seem to think.

• I live in Ohio and cant go and live in NY or Chicago where my friends and family live because with my current salary we simply wouldnt be able to afford a house we live in now in a working class neighborhood.
  
• We had to take on a $4k expense just last year because the windows barely kept the heat in. We had no money to pay it off so we took on debt.
  
• I paid over $13k in medical expenses the year my son was born. We got a nice $1k tax credit that year thanks to him that entirely went into his formula supply for the year. I am currently contesting a $2k bill sent by his doctor that my insurance didnt cover and just paid off $1k out of pocket maximum for another bill for my wife. ask anyone who has had a child recently and the medical bills for the missus almost never stop. And if i die tomorrow, my family will have little to no savings. I will leave my son a few thousand dollars that wont last him more than a few mortgage payments.
  
• We cant afford daycare for my son which is something i really want because studies show daycare really gives kids an advantage over those who dont. that hurts as a parent. but you guys wouldnt know that.

And lastly and this is where you guys are going to get super upset with what i have to say, but fuck it i am tired of reading all the condescending posts in this thread. It seem you all want all of us to become communists and throw away our dreams of moving into bigger houses, going on vacations abroad and sending our kids to Ivy League schools. I graduated and immediately set upon paying back my student loans. 7 years later i am nearly done. I made a lot of sacrifices these past seven years to pay it off and what do i get for it? a fucking $5k bill so you bernie bros can smoke weed all day and get free college education? No thanks.

I pay around 30% of my salary in Federal, State, City, Payroll and Property taxes. I am liberal who is happy to contribute back to the society. Taxes are already too high. Go tax the people who pay a flat 15% rate on stocks. Go tax the millionares who dont pay any payroll taxes after $100k. I lived on minimum wage and have busted my ass working 10-12 hour days getting to where i am today. And i am not done. And I know millions of people like me strive to do the same, but this is just going to make it harder and harder for people to get to the top.

But, but you are being selfish! You need to think about the poor man and the greater good! Be progressive man! You are lucky enough to post on a video game forum so you are already rich!

But, not surprising a lot of gaffers support Bernie because they are most likely Millennials that haven't really started their career yet or even college so it obviously benefits them. 100k looks like a huge amount of money to them.

 

[sphagnum]

First of all, GAF is comprised of a lot of different voices, which you might have noticed by reading this thread full of people disagreeing.

That said, we do have a considerable number of posters who aren't so much real progressives as they are social liberals. They like to call themselves progressives, but they really aren't, because they eschew most progressive ideas regarding finances.

I'm glad someone finally mentioned this. I've been wanting to say that for a long time but didn't feel like arguing with liberals who would get offended about it.

 

[Tesseract]

Smoke weed every day and get free college

Yikes, m8

 

[basic_element]

The US could always drop their insane military budget down to 1% of the GDP. Then the taxes would only barely be increased.

Thinking free healthcare is unaffordable, while justifying a 600B$ military budget is batshit insane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-8spGrLrUM

Watch this video and then tell me if cutting military budget is still the solution.

 

[Frozenprince]

Smoke weed every day and get free college

Yikes, m8

I mean, the level of condescension and assumptions going the other way is really any better?

 

[Marauder Shields]

First of all, GAF is comprised of a lot of different voices, which you might have noticed by reading this thread full of people disagreeing.

That said, we do have a considerable number of posters who aren't so much real progressives as they are social liberals. They like to call themselves progressives, but they really aren't, because they eschew most progressive ideas regarding finances.

Yeah this is a pretty astute observation.

 

[shadowfall]

I thought Bernie was going to tax the top 1% of the country. Why would he increase the taxes across the board? I hope this gets brought up in the next democratic debate.

 

[benjipwns]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-8spGrLrUM

Watch this video and then tell me if cutting military budget is still the solution.

Why did you link to this Canadian filth.

 

[SlimySnake]

I mean, the level of condescension and assumptions going the other way is really any better?

meh that was supposed to funny in an angry kind of way.

but of course i am basing it on my own experiences and half of the people i went to college with and live in dorms with smoked weed all day.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

I am. I've also worked extremely hard for it and continue to work extremely hard for it. And if I want to be charitable and give more of my income, that should be my decision not my governments.

Wrong. The government established a stable environment for you to succeed. Now they are asking for help but you think you shouldn't have to.