Straight Edge
Member
It's a good deal for those looking for free college but it would seriously fuck me to pay almost 5k more a year in taxes.
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Vox: Bernie Sanders's tax hikes are bigger than Donald Trump's tax cuts
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They'll adjust. It might not be easy, but people making 50,000 a year will make it work.
I'm all for it if it means my kids get free healthcare and college. I'll be paying off college loans for a good while yet.
Host Samurai
Member
65% estate tax for billionaires is a bit extreme.
That being said estate tax in general is complete bullshit to me.
That being said estate tax in general is complete bullshit to me.
Shrug. I'd have to see the total package. What benefits me, and what benefits the country by me paying more. And of course, making sure it's implemented correctly to allow for adjustment.
If like you say, there is free college education and health care, I am for it.
For those who say free college does no apply to you, do you not have or want children? I have no idea how I will save to pay for my kids future education as it is now...
If like you say, there is free college education and health care, I am for it.
For those who say free college does no apply to you, do you not have or want children? I have no idea how I will save to pay for my kids future education as it is now...
Ziltoidia 9
Member
I understand what your saying, but no one else is purposing a way to make upward mobility easier for people that work hard.The whole 1% is only 1% for a reason. I don't think people realize how lop sided the 1% is. It leads to crashes, the war, etc.
http://www.businessinsider.com/inequality-is-worse-than-you-think-2013-3
Netherscourge
Banned
Being against the IDEA and not being able to AFFORD IT are two completely different things
superdeluxe
Member
I'm sorry, I'm not going to go into debt so some 17 year old can get a sociology degree for free.
go to community college for 2 years and transfer for your bachelors, or go to a vocational school..or hold a part time job..or gasp..get financial aid...or do Running start so you get 2 years of college for free.
go to community college for 2 years and transfer for your bachelors, or go to a vocational school..or hold a part time job..or gasp..get financial aid...or do Running start so you get 2 years of college for free.
Matt_
World's #1 One Direction Fan: Everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you~~~
even though it would benefit them most, he really should have done the utmost to not increase taxes on those under 100k
politically this is toxic
Trying to bank roll free healthcare + free college at the same time is probably too ambitious too.
politically this is toxic
Trying to bank roll free healthcare + free college at the same time is probably too ambitious too.
balladofwindfishes
Member
5k a year would be kind of crippling... that would be a good chunk of my savings for the year.
Unless he plans on forgiving my student loan debt along with it?
Unless he plans on forgiving my student loan debt along with it?
Host Samurai
Member
Fair enough, but I don't believe in estate tax. I feel like its straight robbery. 65% is a bit excessive. I can understand 20-25$, but 65% is ridiculous
Don't get me wrong I am a Bernie supporter though and through.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Yeah. The lowest monthly payment in the market was almost double than of the penalty I have to pay. If provisions were made to help reduce my burden in student debt (or reduce the amount I pay in this tax because of my student loans) then I'd be willing to pay the extra taxes. Also I wouldn't be willing to file bankruptcy and screw up my credit just to escape student loans.
LegendofJoe
Member
One thing that absolutely has to happen for the tax hikes not to be disastrous for a lot of people is for companies to be forced to pay their employees back what they paid into for health coverage. Otherwise a lot of people are going to be in serious financial trouble.
The best way to do that is to tax businesses for most of the cost of universal health insurance. Individual tax payers need to pay some too, but they shouldn't bear the brunt of it. Companies will never give the money they paid into coverage back to their employees if they're not forced to do it.
The best way to do that is to tax businesses for most of the cost of universal health insurance. Individual tax payers need to pay some too, but they shouldn't bear the brunt of it. Companies will never give the money they paid into coverage back to their employees if they're not forced to do it.
Straight Edge
Member
Should have focused on free healthcare only.
You also have to think of how much money this plan would save families as well. Medications, checkups, monthly health care premiums, college/student loan debt, etc. will all go away. Of course it depends on your job and what kind of health insurance you currently have; but just saying that it is going to be a flat $4700 in extra expenses each year is a symptom of not looking at the whole picture.
This is never going to pass anyway.. Just looking at the backlash in this thread alone is proof. I can imagine a lot of the members on this board are more left wing than the general US population. A general US population who would likely say "An extra ~$5k in taxes!?!" without looking at how much a plan like this can actually be saving money for their family.
If that is only the benefit you can see from free higher education I would suggest you do a bit more reading on the subject.
Zoe
Member
Theoretically, the employer would pass the savings onto you.
("theoretically")
What I'm wondering is if the medical taxes would still decrease your overall tax liability.
RandomExpletive
Member
Fine by me Burns, take my money! Give me that healthcare!
But it wouldn't be free healthcare. If it were free healthcare we wouldn't be seeing these outrageous tax hikes
To Far Away Times
Member
To be fair you are getting a lot in return.
Healthcare and free tuition to name a few.
Your costs decrease in other areas. No more $200,000 in debt to become a doctor, no life changing medical bills, etc...
Healthcare and free tuition to name a few.
Your costs decrease in other areas. No more $200,000 in debt to become a doctor, no life changing medical bills, etc...
Not sure how those two things are compatible.
Estate tax is going to be one of the most effective ways of redistributing wealth.
JesseEwiak
Member
This is my problem w/ Bernie.
In theory, I don't have a problem with these tax levels. I'm a social democrat after all. But, Bernie and his supporters are making the "these changes will be awesome and everybody will be better off" argument instead of the "yes, some people will be less off but we need to make these changes for the benefit of society" argument, which is the argument that needs to be made and was made in European countries.
So, you believe in aristocracy creation through the amalgamation of wealth through the generations? Congrats, you're to the right of Teddy Roosevelt!
In theory, I don't have a problem with these tax levels. I'm a social democrat after all. But, Bernie and his supporters are making the "these changes will be awesome and everybody will be better off" argument instead of the "yes, some people will be less off but we need to make these changes for the benefit of society" argument, which is the argument that needs to be made and was made in European countries.
So, you believe in aristocracy creation through the amalgamation of wealth through the generations? Congrats, you're to the right of Teddy Roosevelt!
Hari Seldon
Member
He should just say he is going to issue every american their own leprechaun with a pot of gold because that has a better chance of actually happening lol.
Not just that we'll be getting millions of jobs.... IF we somehow managed to pass this kind of taxation and a breaking of monopolies you're not going to be scrounging for money and grasping/begging for jobs like you are now... There will be more and higher paying work in both the public and private sector, local business will be booming again.
eu pfhor ia
Neo Member
but, something something big gubment...commies are gonna git ya...
Who's being robbed? The corpse? They're dead, they don't matter anymore. Inherited wealth is the single biggest flaw with the United States. It is a violation of the concept that "all men are created equal" as you give a handful lucky birth lottery winners a absurd amount of power for doing nothing. It completely breaks the entire model for capitalism that Smith, Jefferson, etc. were extolling.
Supporting Sanders and his corporate jihad while being opposed to any estate tax is just about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Why?
This tax plan would do the economy what Booth did to Lincoln.
People here don't seem to understand this.
His plan calls for funding UHC via a set of personal income tax increases, company taxes, and taxes on hedge funds/brokers/etc. Individuals aren't paying anywhere near the brunt of it.
Some people in here don't seem to understand what we're currently spending in health care. The average American spends more than $9,000 a year on health care costs, including insurance premiums, co-pays, and drug costs.
Matt_
World's #1 One Direction Fan: Everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you~~~
Yes my thoughts
Should borrow from the UK and have a government mandated loan system with low interest that people only pay back after they are earning over a certain threshold, which then comes out like a tax
even if its temporary
Yes.
I have zero problem with the tax hikes. But I want to talk about the impact on the lower rung of the distribution and the infrastructure plan, specifically for higher education.
It is not a straightforward argument that paying $X every month in student loans for education is necessarily worse than a tax hike of $Y every month when we have to resolve a significant supply and incentives problem -- and the discussion is being hidden behind "cringe" and "I can't believe someone could be against this".
My view: The campaign should have been focused on free universal healthcare and started discussing the path for education reform.
ugaboga232
Member
Another amazingly misleading chart by Vox on sanders tax plan. There are very legit debates to be had at the value of raising middle class tax rates but this chart makes the rather misleading assumption that employers will 100% pass on the employer taxes and yet somehow don't pass on the craptons of money healthcare costs nowadays. Now obviously its just taxes being looked at but this is purely for shock and awe if you don't look at what the purpose of these taxes is for. Most employers that pay for health insurance now would probably froth at the mouth for only paying the 6.5% or whatever it is instead of the crazy costs of insurance for them not to mention the premiums and deductibles people pay.
You have no problem with the proposal but instead with how Bernie supporters are framing it...
Other than the clickbait title, I don't think there is anything wrong with what is said.
edible_candle
Member
I'm actually surprised that more businesses aren't pro-government run health care. It would be a huge financial burden off of their shoulders. Right now, my company pays what amounts to a 15-20% tax on my income to pay for my medical insurance. Under Sanders' plan, that would drop to a 6.5% income tax.
Wait, their calculations assume employers would pass along the 6.5% income tax increase, but none of the savings from dropping their health care plans?
That is the worst part of what is going on now. People are skipping medications, halving doses, etc. because they just can't afford it. There has been more than a handful of times I have known somebody not going to the hospital even though they really need to go because they don't know how they would pay for it.
Nobody should have to decide between putting food on the table for their family, paying utilities/rent, or taking much needed medication.... but it happens everyday in the US.
JesseEwiak
Member
So, we're supposed to believe the evil corporations run by the 1% will pass on the savings to employees instead of just taking the profits for themselves?
For that to happen, tax hikes are inevitable. But consider this, you would be getting both free(ish) healthcare and college!
Now imagine an establishment candidate in office being forced to make the same healthcare reform, who do you think they are going to tax more the top 20% or mid-low class?
God Dayumm
Banned
Companies will not save that money either because they also have to pay higher taxes themselves
gutter_trash
Banned
technically you are paying a ''tax'' in the form of private health insurance right now
you wouldn't need to pay as much into private health insurance if if you had universal healthcare.
the taxes would be less than private insurance
you wouldn't need to pay as much into private health insurance if if you had universal healthcare.
the taxes would be less than private insurance
AstroNut325
Member
I'm all for it if employers will pass on the healthcare savings to the employees. That alone would get me to support Sanders.
excelsiorlef
Member
So what comes first the new health care plan or the tax increase? Or is it both or none?
Yup I pay $126 a month in premiums for my wife and I which is only 15% of the total cost of my plan with my company covering the other 85%
Free tuition is a worthless false promise that won't do anyone any good.
1. you need to still be able to afford food and shelter while going to school. Is free tuition going to come with a basic income as well?
2. free tuition with no restrictions would result in a ton of federal money getting sunk into pointless degrees for future baristas.
3. Many fields have ample competitive staffing already. Free tuition will only expand the pool, allowing employers to pay less for entry level and early career positions. when coupled with Sanders' tax policy and minimum wage policy you're constructing a perfect storm where going to school, working hard, getting a degree, and getting a job in your field might see you making the same as a GED toting fry cook. That would be a good look.
But hey, never let reality get in the way of a good "revolution", right?
ugaboga232
Member
If you use this logic, why don't they just pay us 1$? Their burden per employee is going down, and if they have no interest in increasing wages, why do they even pay much in the first place? Answer this, and you get your answer (if you are gonna factor in pass through on one factor, it isn't very logically consistent to say they won't pass through the other).
Duh, this is looking at taxes only silly
wouldn't want to be misleading about the bill these taxes would be part of which is the WHOLE point. Congress would totally increase taxes for fun.LegendofJoe
Member
I know what the cost of coverage is for the average person, but the chart included in the article doesn't seem to take into account that UHC would not be funded solely by individuals. The math of a 9k incease in taxes for families making a little over 100k doesn't add up.
The suggested tax increase is considerably smaller than what companies are currently paying for health insurance.
Septimus Prime
Member
Probably both. Personally, I'm exactly ecstatic to pay more, either, especially given that college is already over, and my employer covers my healthcare, but it's kind of hypocritical for people to want to enact these great social programs and not pay for them. That's not how it works.
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