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WaPo: Obama’s secret struggle to punish Russia for Putin’s election assault

Do you think Romney really believed that about Russia? Do you think he really minded their stance on homosexuality, croneyism, dissent, or press freedom? Do you think this "warning" was anything but labeling a good enemy for fancy American weapons to stare down? Do you think he bothered to ask the de facto leader of his party about the allegations when he sat down for a candlelight dinner?

This "Who's laughing at Romney now?" is nothing but the stupidest and most obvious of sneering troll comments.
 
Do you think Romney really believed that about Russia? Do you think he really minded their stance on homosexuality, croneyism, dissent, or press freedom? Do you think this "warning" was anything but labeling a good enemy for fancy American weapons to stare down? Do you think he bothered to ask the de facto leader of his party about the allegations when he sat down for a candlelight dinner?

This "Who's laughing at Romney now?" is nothing but the stupidest and most obvious of sneering troll comments.

Yes.
Maybe.
Yes.
No.

Various parts of the right have been concerned about Russia for a very long time, particularly since the 2008 war with Georgia. You don't know what Romney was thinking, but he was right, and he stuck to his guns on that. If you can't give people credit for being right, at the right time, you're a bigger partisan shill than you accuse others of being.
 
Yes.
Maybe.
Yes.
No.

Various parts of the right have been concerned about Russia for a very long time, particularly since the 2008 war with Georgia. You don't know what Romney was thinking, but he was right, and he stuck to his guns on that. If you can't give people credit for being right, at the right time, you're a bigger partisan shill than you accuse others of being.

So... I'm open-minded. Point me to where somebody asked Romney about the Russia debacle (let's say... post-Comey firing). Does he defend his voluntary humiliation by saying he wanted the State job to protect America from the inside from a Russia-Trump alliance? Or is it that he just didn't know, since of course the dossier was fakety fake.

They are concerned (a favorite word of theirs), but their entire behavior in this whole investigation has been "sure Russia is horrible, and we are the only ones who can be tough. All of Trump & co's actions were just products of naivety, and are not at odds at all with our stance." Overall, secondary priority, nothing that anybody would stake their career for by saying that they shouldn't cooperate with somebody who acts guilty at every turn. Shill me up, man.
 

UCBooties

Member
As I say, with regards to Russia he made a bad call. Also, that's not entirely down to foreign policy - the Dem infrastructure slid a lot during Obama's terms, and not all of that was due to Russian influence. The current lack of a real bench is pretty embarrassing, and that's got nothing to do with anyone outside the US.

We can thank Operation REDMAP for that. The Republicans hamstrung the DNC for at least a decade while no one was paying attention. Chances are good they'll be able to do it again in 2020.
 

Darknight

Member
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/23/obama-cia-warning-russia-election-hack-report



Haven't really seen anyone outright say this in the media like this before.
All the republican voters where I work think this way that Russia is an ally and everything is fine.

My boss is such an idiot he actually was on the RT website one day talking like its a legit source of news. Fucking crazy times we live in.

These people are so loyal to their party that they are willing to ignore reality and dont mind the country getting fucked...unless your are black then they really get stirred up.
 

Steel

Banned
So... I'm open-minded. Point me to where somebody asked Romney about the Russia debacle (let's say... post-Comey firing). Does he defend his voluntary humiliation by saying he wanted the State job to protect America from the inside from a Russia-Trump alliance? Or is it that he just didn't know, since of course the dossier was fakety fake.

They are concerned (a favorite word of theirs), but their entire behavior in this whole investigation has been "sure Russia is horrible, and we are the only ones who can be tough. All of Trump & co's actions were just products of naivety, and are not at odds at all with our stance." Overall, secondary priority, nothing that anybody would stake their career for by saying that they shouldn't cooperate with somebody who acts guilty at every turn. Shill me up, man.

He's said since and before then he didn't want the job of SoS but would take it if called to serve. He also mentioned a bunch of people, including Hillary, called him to take the job to insure a modicum of sanity in Trump's team.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
americas only beginning to learn how hard putin fucked them. He literally made you all choose trump, thats masterclass trolling and the effects have been most immediate
 

cameron

Member
Lunacy continues after hours of golfing.

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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/878711517537083392
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/878715504063643648
 

Ok so the hack definitely happened now because we're blaming Obama for it. Right? That's what I'm seeing here?

It went from "fake news" and "dem hoax to explain election loss" to "it happened and it's Obama's fault let's focus on it being Obama's fault" literally saying "let's focus on Obama, not me" Jesus fucKING CHRIST
 

Nokterian

Member
What blatend idiot fucking hell reading those tweets..the last time i heard some intelligent speak was last year that was Obama..fuck this preludin child.
 
Two things.

1) Nothing Obama said would have changed things. The Russia stuff was no secret, even Clinton brought it up, and the voters, not even the left leaning ones, cared. Many still don't care.

We failed ourselves.

2) Trump is dry snitching on himself hard on Twitter. Anyone with a hint of debate skills, nevermind Mueller's team, would rip this dude to shreds on the stand.

But with twitter, they don't have to.
 

Tovarisc

Member
And now he has gone full circle back to rambling about Dems not helping GOP with health care and how ACA should just crash and burn.

Fuck is going on with this guy today, wheels coming off.
 

RPGCrazied

Member
And now he has gone full circle back to rambling about Dems not helping GOP with health care and how ACA should just crash and burn.

Fuck is going on with this guy today, wheels coming off.

TICK TICK TICK guy is right. The day is young. Buckle up.
 
Obama's foreign policy in regard to Russia was 8 years of disaster. From the very onset with the embarrassing "Reset" button (which was actually mispelled in Russian and ended up translating to "overload," but even the concept of 'The Reset Button' was a joke, as Putin had just officially transitioned the country to an autocracy in 2008 and still had tanks in a European democratic country), to non-responses in Crimea, Ukraine, and throughout Europe; to Obama's embarrassing 2012 campaign where he scolded Romney that "the Cold War is over, and the 1980s called and want their foreign policy back," to Obama resisting sanctions and punishment for Russia in 2014 (and even tempering the Senate & House legislations to sanction Russia after they were passed unanimously in the Senate; this was Obama's biggest misstep with Russia IMO), to happily supporting Russia to remain in the G8 (now cutely referred to the "G7+1") for a decade+, to the US election in 2016, it's an instance where "No Drama Obama" hurt not only American and European interests abroad, but also particularly Obama's party and Clinton's election chances in 2016.

Not that Obama was any better than any of our European allies (particularly Silvio Burlisconi or Sarkozy), or Bush (whose ate out of Putin's hand after Putin was the first to call him on 9/11; and who tied himself up with the stupid "saw into his soul" remark from earlier in 2001), or especially Bill Clinton, but our chickens have come home to roost with regard to Russia. There is a tradition with American presidents for the last 30 years. American presidents, Republican and Democratic, have stood aside as Russia devolves back into autocracy, dissolves Democracy movements, assassinates foreign citizens, invades European democracies, props up groups like ISIS or Al Qaeda, sells Nuclear material to Iran, ruthlessly murders civilians, interferes in foreign elections...... And then as soon as the president is out of office, they publish a memoir of their years in office and their big regrets are "not being firm enough on Russia" or "trusting Putin to do the right thing." George HW Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush all followed that blueprint: let Russian autocrats walk all over them, do nothing while in office (GHWB has the best record of all three though), leave office, write a memoir where they regret their decisions, and then the sitting president does the same thing. I'll guarantee this will be a chapter in Obama's forthcoming presidential memoir, where his major foreign policy regret will be not being firm with Russia/Putin.

And of course, now, we have a simply Pro-Russian disaster of a president, and a significant portion of the Right has completely flopped over to the other side of where they were 4+ years ago, using formerly progressive arguments to defend Putin or Russia. I was stunned and saddened that when presented with a question about Russian interference in our elections, Trump defended Russia and attacked the US by asking, "And doesn't the US do the same thing?!" or something to that effect, which is the type of bull shit argument that would more commonly come from a Stalin apoligist in Academia, not the Republican president (or president elect) of the United States. While this president (Trump) is an utter nightmare for the country, it has one unintended benefit... Democrats and fellow liberals have finally taken the blinders off when it comes to Putin and Russia.

Interestingly enough, Congress has furtively opposed Russia, sought sanctions, and been an obstacle to Russia's invasion of European countries, while 4 consecutive administrations have sought to temper Congress' disapproval with Russia, and with disastrous results.
 
lol...


He would have looked like he was interfering in the election. Especially with the Loretta Lynch stuff.

Trump is a fucking idiot and an embarrassment but even a broken clock can be right twice a day... He's right when he says that Obama didn't do anything about Russian interference because he assumed Clinton would win. If Obama was briefed on this in August, as the WaPo suggests, it was when Clinton had a projected lead of 10+ points from CNN's poll aggregate after the conventions. It's not like Obama not acting with Russia is an aberration or anything, it was typical of his Administration (and not just Obama's, but also GWB and Clinton's)

If what the WaPo suggests is correct, Obama likely didn't act because he assumed Clinton would win (up +10 with 2.5ish months to go) and didn't want to give ammunition to Trump and Trump acolytes after losing the election that it "looked like he meddled in it."

I voted for Obama and really liked him as president, but this is a situation where he and the democratic party are too concerned with optics. Or, he was so concerned with being perceived as doing the wrong thing, that he didn't let himself do the right thing.
 

Zolo

Member
Trump is a fucking idiot but even a broken clock can be right twice a day... He's right when he says that Obama didn't do anything about Russian interferance because he assumed Clinton would win. If Obama were briefed on this in August, as the WaPo suggests, it was when Clinton had a projected lead of 10+ points from CNN's poll aggregate after the conventions.

If what the WaPo suggests is correct, Obama likely didn't act because he assumed Clinton would win (up +10 with 2.5ish months to go) and didn't want to give ammunition to Trump and Trump acolytes after losing the election that it "looked like he meddled in it."

I voted for Obama and really liked him as president, but this is a situation where he and the democratic party are too concerned with optics. Or, he was so concerned with being perceived as doing the wrong thing, that he didn't let himself do the right thing.

I agree Obama should have went public about this, but Trump's only interest is showing how it was collusion even if doing anything either way would have been viewed as doing so.
 
Oh, yeah, totally agree, Trump's motivation is because he's a petty, small, incompetent man who needs to present fellow Americans as enemies because he's too weak to actually address the real foes of America -- Russia. I don't get any joy in saying that Trump's right about Obama not addressing evidence of Russian interference because he assumed Clinton would win; Trump's motivation is his typical banal persecution complex.
 
here is the Democratic party in action. optics are more important than anything, even protecting the fundamental right of democracy.

I think it went above optics in this situation. You're talking about a sitting president accusing the other party's candidate of collusion with a hostile power months away from the upcoming election. There's repercussions to that which would likely be far worse then trusting in the polling and letting Hillary quietly handle Russia once she won.
 
I think it went above optics in this situation. You're talking about a sitting president accusing the other party's candidate of collusion with a hostile power months away from the upcoming election. There's repercussions to that which would likely be far worse then trusting in the polling and letting Hillary quietly handle Russia once she won.

Exactly.

You're talking about the CIA informing the president that an autocratic foreign country is trying to interfere with the very basis of your government -- democracy.

If you're not going to do something about that, then what do you act on? What issue could possibly be more important or more consequential than the democratic foundation of your government?

And, obviously whatever choice Obama made was the wrong one here. Clinton would have been projected to win by 10 points in CNN's poll average at this stage in the election. And from that point, the point at which then president was informed about Russian meddling in the American election system, polls basically zeroed out to 1 or 2% for Clinton, she of course lost, pro-Putin Trump was elected, filled his cabinet with Pro-Russian cronies, and will likely veto House legislation sanctioning Russia, Russia is threatening to shoot down American air force pilots. In conjunction with Oliver Stone launching his Putin propaganda film this week, Megyn Kelly getting resoundingly embarrassed by him 2 weeks ago, nothing could have possibly played out any better for Putin and any worse for the American people.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Obama could not go public with this, period. Same reason Comey had no choice but to announce the investigation (or "matter") was reopened on Clinton.

Sometimes you are in a situation where only a bad choice is the least-worst course of action.

The real lesson is that the US shouldn't have found itself in that position in the first place, not what it did or didn't do at that point.
 
Let's remember, the "least worse course of action" has given us, undoubtedly, the worst result. Not just from the "Trump is president" perspective, but also in that Putin is more popular than he's ever been in Russia (Putin intefereing with the American election successfully has made him more popular domestically), he's crushed opposition movements in the country, has continued to prop up Assad, has threatened to shoot down American military fighting ISIS, tried to interfere in the election of another Western democracy (France), and not only is Trump president, but Trump is -- as far as any president ever has been -- Pro Russian. And it's only June!

I'm having a hard time coming up with a worse result.

The real lesson is that the US shouldn't have found itself in that position in the first place, not what it did or didn't do at that point.

This though, is spot on. Nearly 20 years of terrible foreign policy with regard to Putin specifically, 25+ years of horrible foreign policy with regard to Russia, and certainly the worst 10 years of that were the last 10 years.
 

Binabik15

Member
Let's remember, the "least worse course of action" has given us, undoubtedly, the worst result. Not just from the "Trump is president" perspective, but also in that Putin is more popular than he's ever been in Russia (Putin intefereing with the American election successfully has made him more popular domestically), he's crushed opposition movements in the country, has continued to prop up Assad, has threatened to shoot down American military fighting ISIS, tried to interfere in the election of another Western democracy (France), and not only is Trump president, but Trump is -- as far as any president ever has been -- Pro Russian. And it's only June!

I'm having a hard time coming up with a worse result.



This though, is spot on. Nearly 20 years of terrible foreign policy with regard to Putin specifically, 25+ years of horrible foreign policy with regard to Russia, and certainly the worst 10 years of that were the last 10 years.


And - so far - really lacking "checks and balances" and rules that are based on honour between thieves, err, politicians in a radicaliaer two party system. And lifelong appointments for judges on a highly political constutional court.

The president is basically tweeting, yeah, all it's true, but the real fault is on the other guy for not doing enough to stop us stealing the election! I mean: FUCK!
 

X-Frame

Member
Uhhhh wow. Trump is going nuts on Twitter today and seems to be his worst meltdown yet -- but there were so many it's hard to keep track.
 
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