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[Steel]

I happened to have the poor luck of choosing Loki for my frame. Sucks for me.

If your stance is it's irrelevant because they changed it later, then the counter point is that since House of Wolves, you don't have to wait for drops to get gear. You can buy exotics from Xur once a week, buy Legendary gear and weapons for marks that you earn over time by completing activities and get Etheric Light from completing Prison of Elders PvE runs, competing in Iron Banner til you hit the appropriate rep, or winning enough times in Trials of Osiris.
.

Xur is RNG, you don't know what you get until he appears, the weekly limit on marks makes the grind for them to get gear harder than mat grinding in warframe. Haven't experienced the other stuff as I haven't gotten the expansions. I did experience Iron banner though.

Not to mention that weekly caps and a weekly vendor are freemium tactics in themselves.

 

[Jest Chillin]

So what is different "content"? The hours is takes to complete it? So if every room where your ghost needs to hack something has double the enemies, then the game has double the content, because it takes you twice as long? If that's the sort of metric you'd use to describe content then... well, you're probably on the same page as Bungie to be honest.

Yes, games often have progress blocks, but not to anywhere near the extent Destiny does. It's to the point where you walk into a room and immediately know "this is a job for dinklebot...". It's the hook of pretty much every campaign level, and consumes an incredible percentage of the playtime.

Also whilst this is obviously anecdotal, howlongtobeat places Destiny's campaign at about 11hrs making my time with it roughly average, and the overall time rather similar to Halo's far more varied and progressive campaigns.

If geometry were to be considered content, then Warframes content would be limited to how many different tilesets there are. Because mixing and matching the same tilesets doesn't create new geometry. The content is the encounters themselves. Differences in enemy type, strength, and amount change the content. And the wave sections in Destiny are definitely not in "pretty much every campaign level."

How Long to Beat seems to work on the honor system of users reporting in their times and seem to have gotten their results from a total of 710 polls, 5 "unique" (I have no idea what that means) and 2 reports listed were reported as being played on PC... It also reports the fastest PS4 completion at 4 hour and 45 minutes while it's longest is 967 hours and 24m. Their stats definitely strike me as dubious.

Xur is RNG, you don't know what you get until he appears, the weekly limit on marks makes the grind for them to get gear harder than mat grinding in warframe. Haven't experienced the other stuff as I haven't gotten the expansions. I did experience Iron banner though.

Not to mention that weekly caps and a weekly vendor are freemium tactics in themselves.

Xur is definitely RNG but he's still a solid chance for advancement in addition to the other paths to advance. I also don't know how you can call Weekly limits a freemium tactic when there's no way to pay your way around the limit.

 

[Steel]

Xur is definitely RNG but he's still a solid chance for advancement in addition to the other paths to advance. I also don't know how you can call Weekly limits a freemium tactic when there's no way to pay your way around the limit.

It's a tactic used in freemium games. The only difference is you can't pay your way around it.

 

[NoHeDidn't]

I remember hearing Bungie telling everyone what a huge budget they put into this game (what like 500 million) and all i could think was they are gonna monetize as much as humanly possible.

After getting a budget that bloated Bungie knew they sold their soul so to speak,it is Activision we're talking about.I know some worship the ground Bungie walk on and treat them as innocent by standers but as someone who still plays Destiny they deserve all the crap getting thrown at them atleast by association.

 

[Marvel]

Warframe does F2P right.

It really does.

 

[Hollow]

I happened to have the poor luck of choosing Loki for my frame. Sucks for me.

Loki was my starter as well and is one of my favorite frames.

It definitely took some work for me to figure out how best to use him, though.

Unless my squad has a specific strategy in mind for tower survival missions he's my default choice.

 

[Synth]

If geometry were to be considered content, then Warframes content would be limited to how many different tilesets there are. Because mixing and matching the same tilesets doesn't create new geometry. The content is the encounters themselves. Differences in enemy type, strength, and amount change the content. And the wave sections in Destiny are definitely not in "pretty much every campaign level."

How Long to Beat seems to work on the honor system of users reporting in their times and seem to have gotten their results from a total of 710 polls, 5 "unique" (I have no idea what that means) and 2 reports listed were reported as being played on PC... It also reports the fastest PS4 completion at 4 hour and 45 minutes while it's longest is 967 hours and 24m. Their stats definitely strike me as dubious.

Howlongtobeat aside, Destiny's vanilla campaign is made up of 20 individual missions. Each of those missions is doable within 20 minutes on an initial run at a standard pace, adding in extra time for side stuff like retuning to the tower the entire campaign is easily beatable within 10 hours. I wasn't even close to rushing my original playthrough.

Obviously graphical assests alone don't determine how much content a game has. I wouldn't say the for example Super Mario Bros was content starved because if created almost all of the levels with a few basic block foundations. However each of those levels are unique content, and none of it was artificially extended by locking your progression. I wouldn't consider the new game (with the buzzy beetles) as new content however, because it's simply the same content being repurposed to articially lengthen the game's playtime.

The Destiny campaign missions aren't generally made up of unique content. This is easily proven by the entire shared instance stuff. The reason you can inhabit the same instance as other players doing completely unrelated tasks is because you're still on the same level, fighting the same enemies, that are arranged in the same formations (and usually at the same level).. only when you enter darkness zones, and the game splits you off are you generally playing content that is unique to your mission.. and this content is neaerly always just a long monster room of sorts against mutliple waves of enemies. The game even goes as far as to drop you off at the same starting point for every single mission on a given planet. The repurposing is content in Destiny is crazy, and not at all comparable to prettty much any other FPS campaign.

Try to imagine having Destiny's shared world mechanic in Halo. It doesn't work at all does it? Why is that? Because every single stage is completely new content. Even areas within a stage that you revisit have completely unique encounters, and so there would never be anything to share with other players. Despite this each of Halo's 10 campaign missions are easily double the length of a typical Destiny campaign mission, whilst very, very rarely limiting your progression artifically. You can complete on of Halo's 10 missions in a timeframe similar to one of Destiny's 20, but when you do it looks something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe-q4s6b388. It looks like you're playing DooM or something comparitively.

To claim that a Destiny level contains even half of the content of a Halo level is pretty much ridiculous by any metric. If the game takes you longer to playthrough, that is owed almost entirely to factors other than the game's actual content (such as wanting to be a certain level before attempting the next mission).

EDIT: Also, since you consider howlongtobeat dubious. I'd like to know where your 14-18 hour estimation is coming from.

 

[Ashler]

I need to pick this game back up again. Only played it at launch.

 

[frizby]

I need to pick this game back up again. Only played it at launch.

You'll hardly recognize it.

 

[Nordicus]

You'll hardly recognize it.

"Wait, why am I not meditating over an empty void?

Huh, is this the tutorial again? Holy crap, something's different, there's vegetation!

Hold on, since when did I have a pimpin' spaceship???"

- Nordicus circa October 2014, 2nd try at Warframe

 

[Ken]

I just realized Destiny is selling emotes and still hasn't implemented text based chat in-game.

Like, how does this,

When you stride through the Tower, people are going to ask you where you got those wonderful toys. You’ll nod and let them know you earned them. It’s a Year One thing, and they just wouldn’t understand. And they won’t ever be able to get their hands on their own set.

Even occur. No one is going to bother pulling up your profile and sending a PSN message (outside of hate mail) and there's not even a nod emote in the game. :|

 

[BokehKing]

It's a tactic used in freemium games. The only difference is you can't pay your way around it.

.... What?

It's been around before 'freemium'

 

[barit]

Well WarFrame is definitley one of the better F2P games out there right now. You can get all Weapons and Warframes just by playing it and the grind is by no mean worse than say in Destiny. And the simple fact that Digital Extremes adds tons of content on a regular base even with its F2P model puts Destiny imho to shame. Such trivial things like freaking emotes shouldn't be behind a paywall in AAA games where you already paid full prices for the core game plus all the extra addons. The whole Destiny concept is disgusting in itself and even if the gameplay is somehow fun, everything else around it just screams lackluster and ripoff.

I mean where are those 500 devs that are working on Destiny right now? With so much manpower they should have by now doubled the content, at least on new class, new vehicles on mass and millions of emotes. This game is a joke and one of the prime examples what is wrong with this industry.

 

[Caja 117]

Howlongtobeat aside, Destiny's vanilla campaign is made up of 20 individual missions. Each of those missions is doable within 20 minutes on an initial run at a standard pace, adding in extra time for side stuff like retuning to the tower the entire campaign is easily beatable within 10 hours. I wasn't even close to rushing my original playthrough.

Obviously graphical assests alone don't determine how much content a game has. I wouldn't say the for example Super Mario Bros was content starved because if created almost all of the levels with a few basic block foundations. However each of those levels are unique content, and none of it was artificially extended by locking your progression. I wouldn't consider the new game (with the buzzy beetles) as new content however, because it's simply the same content being repurposed to articially lengthen the game's playtime.

The Destiny campaign missions aren't generally made up of unique content. This is easily proven by the entire shared instance stuff. The reason you can inhabit the same instance as other players doing completely unrelated tasks is because you're still on the same level, fighting the same enemies, that are arranged in the same formations (and usually at the same level).. only when you enter darkness zones, and the game splits you off are you generally playing content that is unique to your mission.. and this content is neaerly always just a long monster room of sorts against mutliple waves of enemies. The game even goes as far as to drop you off at the same starting point for every single mission on a given planet. The repurposing is content in Destiny is crazy, and not at all comparable to prettty much any other FPS campaign.

Try to imagine having Destiny's shared world mechanic in Halo. It doesn't work at all does it? Why is that? Because every single stage is completely new content. Even areas within a stage that you revisit have completely unique encounters, and so there would never be anything to share with other players. Despite this each of Halo's 10 campaign missions are easily double the length of a typical Destiny campaign mission, whilst very, very rarely limiting your progression artifically. You can complete on of Halo's 10 missions in a timeframe similar to one of Destiny's 20, but when you do it looks something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe-q4s6b388. It looks like you're playing DooM or something comparitively.

To claim that a Destiny level contains even half of the content of a Halo level is pretty much ridiculous by any metric. If the game takes you longer to playthrough, that is owed almost entirely to factors other than the game's actual content (such as wanting to be a certain level before attempting the next mission).

EDIT: Also, since you consider howlongtobeat dubious. I'd like to know where your 14-18 hour estimation is coming from.

I dont think so, in Destiny you have 4 different open world locations that are separated by areas, some 5 areas per planet, we are talking about 20 different ares, vs the different type of Enemies types, which are more varied than your standard Triple A shooter (basically the same as Halo as In my opinion Bungie used Halo enemies and put them in a new Skin). the amount of time it takes you to finish destiny is on par with any other FPS that is out there, level really inst a factor playing the campaign because the level progression is made so you are in the correct level for every next mission.

Destiny is just a Large scale Halo ODST.

 

[commish]

You'll hardly recognize it.

Not sure if joke post or serious post, tbh. It's 95% the exact same content/areas/enemies.

 

[Z O N E]

I don't know. I still choose to play Destiny over Warframe anyway.

I think the point is that if a developer not as wealthy as Bungie can add 3 emotes for free, why are Bungie using it a as a reason to justify the price.

 

[qcf x2]

I put over 200 hours into Warframe, and I didn't spend a single penny until about the 110 hour mark, at which point I bought like $8 worth of in-game currency because I wanted to give back to the devs. At no point do you literally need to spend real money. Sure, you need to "purchase" slots with currency, but you can farm items and sell them and move up that way.

It's easily the most fair F2P game I've ever played. I might even argue that it's too lenient from a business perspective, but as a consumer I'm not complaining.

Btw, for those of you who haven't played in a year or so, the game is way better now. Much more balance, companions, and most importantly the new frames keep getting better and better. No more generic ice guy or tank dude, these are versatile frames that emphasize complementary teamwork, as opposed to standard run and gun.

 

[Caja 117]

I think the point is that if a developer not as wealthy as Bungie can add 3 emotes for free, why are Bungie using it a as a reason to justify the price.

You dont get wealthy by giving stuff for free, you need to be greedy and accept that consumers are going to despise you(not that I agree with charging money for emotes or skins)

Btw, for those of you who haven't played in a year or so, the game is way better now. Much more balance, companions, and most importantly the new frames keep getting better and better. No more generic ice guy or tank dude, these are versatile frames that emphasize complementary teamwork, as opposed to standard run and gun.

Meh, I will try it again, but last time around I was put off by the art design.

 

[Altima]

I have just given this game another try after I heard that it is a good F2P game from this thread.

I think it is ok but I feel much better when I headshot those Fallen in Destiny.

I never feel like grinding in Destiny except for those upgrade component farm that was very painful in vanilla Desitny. I do daily/weekly after that I'm done with the game. I am not a fan of repetitive task like keep playing 1 mission for 20-100 times to farm for specific item.

 

[Glitchesarecool]

Not sure if joke post or serious post, tbh. It's 95% the exact same content/areas/enemies.

Compared to launch? There was so much changed and added since then.

 

[Synth]

I dont think so, in Destiny you have 4 different open world locations that are separated by areas, some 5 areas per planet, we are talking about 20 different ares, vs the different type of Enemies types, which are more varied than your standard Triple A shooter (basically the same as Halo as In my opinion Bungie used Halo enemies and put them in a new Skin). the amount of time it takes you to finish destiny is on par with any other FPS that is out there, level really inst a factor playing the campaign because the level progression is made so you are in the correct level for every next mission.

Destiny is just a Large scale Halo ODST.

Yea, I'm saying Destiny's campaign length is roughly on par with other FPS games. Jest Chillin was claiming it to be substantially longer however. What I am saying however is that this campaign contains less content variety than comparable games.

Destiny may have 5 areas per planet, but it only has 4 planets. Watch the link showing Assault on the Control Room in Halo, and then in your mind try partitioning what you see into Destiny style "areas"? It begins to add up quick across Halo's 10 completely unique levels, that aren't simply dropping you off at the same point each time so you can trverse a bit of barren terrain until you reach the next localised area of the map where something happens. All it takes for Halo to have Destiny beat in terms of "areas" would be for each level to equal 2 of them. It goes waaaaay beyond doing that.

 

[commish]

Compared to launch? There was so much changed and added since then.

Quality of life stuff, sure. But what else besides that? TDB raid and POE and a handful of mission areas. The rest of the new stuff uses the same assets and enemies as the launch game, often simply running an area backwards. Even with the weapons, people are using the exact same weapons as were in the game at launch. Will FB and Ballerhorn ever go out of style?

 

[Nordicus]

Quality of life stuff, sure. But what else besides that? TDB raid and POE and a handful of mission areas. The rest of the new stuff uses the same assets and enemies as the launch game, often simply running an area backwards. Even with the weapons, people are using the exact same weapons as were in the game at launch. Will FB and Ballerhorn ever go out of style?

Err, the dude was talking about Warframe, not Destiny

 

[Steel]

.... What?

It's been around before 'freemium'

Yeah, it was also in subscription MMOs in order to keep people playing longer.

 

[Caja 117]

Yea, I'm saying Destiny's campaign length is roughly on par with other FPS games. Jest Chillin was claiming it to be substantially longer however. What I am saying however is that this campaign contains less content variety than comparable games.

Destiny may have 5 areas per planet, but it only has 4 planets. Watch the link showing Assault on the Control Room in Halo, and then in your mind try partitioning what you see into Destiny style "areas"? It begins to add up quick across Halo's 10 completely unique levels, that aren't simply dropping you off at the same point each time so you can trverse a bit of barren terrain until you reach the next localised area of the map where something happens. All it takes for Halo to have Destiny beat in terms of "areas" would be for each level to equal 2 of them. It goes waaaaay beyond doing that.

I disagree, been an open world shooter you cant really call it less content variety, is like saying Wticher 3 has less content variety than Ryse, just because in Witcher you only have 4 maps, whereas in Ryse Son of Rome you have 8 different unique levels.

 

[ghettotwan]

I got it at launch but with all the changes is there a way to start all over? I didn't see a way and I just deleted the game... If there was one I start back up since it was pretty fun

 

[Steel]

I got it at launch but with all the changes is there a way to start all over? I didn't see a way and I just deleted the game... If there was one I start back up since it was pretty fun

You could just delete all your suits but one that's level 1, do the same for weapons. I don't see why you'd do that, but that's effectively the same thing as starting over.

 

[Synth]

I disagree, been an open world shooter you cant really call it less content variety, is like saying Wticher 3 has less content variety than Ryse, just because in Witcher you only have 4 maps, whereas in Ryse Son of Rome you have 8 different unique levels.

Well, I haven't played The Witcher 3, so I can't really weigh in on that one.

I'm probably not doing a very good job of portraying what I'm trying to say really, so it may not really be worth continuing to discuss it (especially with this really being a Warframe topic). Basically, I don't consider surface area to mean much if it's largely empty If I placed a large map with some enemies dotted about (that respawn continuously in the same fashion) around the arenas in Smash TV, I wouldn't say that the game now has significantly more content. The content is still in those localized zone, and it still resorts to frequently locking you in to ensure that it lasts the required amount of time to appear substantial. The reason I linked to the Halo vid, is because that's almost 15 minutes of pure progression. The game isn't ensuring that the player remains in each key room for 3-4 minutes to prevent the stage being over in 4 minutes total. By comparison, that's pretty much what Destiny's campaign does, and so when you return to a level and play it efficiently, you realise that you actually progress very little in each stage. They're pretty much 3 or so main encounters with a leisurely ride across some terrain to get you from your constant start point, to where the mission actually takes place. If Destiny's world contained everything Halo's stages have within them, the game would have plenty of varied tasks to complete, and wouldn't like every level is The Library. Because really.. every level is The Library (I can't believe they actually called a level The Archive... and it's the worst level in the game again).

 

[Trogdor1123]

Compared to launch? There was so much changed and added since then.

Yep, it's a totally different game. I played at launch and then stopped for ever a year and then got back into it and it was totally different, much better and refined.

Pouring time into it now. Love the game.

 

[WastedDeer]

I disagree, been an open world shooter you cant really call it less content variety, is like saying Wticher 3 has less content variety than Ryse, just because in Witcher you only have 4 maps, whereas in Ryse Son of Rome you have 8 different unique levels.

Its not exactly open world like Witcher 3. Lets be honest. Each area seems slightly larger than most levels in other games.

Edit... And Witcher 3 has more varied content in the base game than Destiny with all expansions.

 

[Glitchesarecool]

nvm

 

[Jest Chillin]

Howlongtobeat aside, Destiny's vanilla campaign is made up of 20 individual missions. Each of those missions is doable within 20 minutes on an initial run at a standard pace, adding in extra time for side stuff like retuning to the tower the entire campaign is easily beatable within 10 hours. I wasn't even close to rushing my original playthrough.

Obviously graphical assests alone don't determine how much content a game has. I wouldn't say the for example Super Mario Bros was content starved because if created almost all of the levels with a few basic block foundations. However each of those levels are unique content, and none of it was artificially extended by locking your progression. I wouldn't consider the new game (with the buzzy beetles) as new content however, because it's simply the same content being repurposed to articially lengthen the game's playtime.

20 minutes for every mission the very first time you play through the game is not very likely at all. especially solo, especially if you aren't doing Bounties and Patrols and every Strike to raise your level above that of the mission you're playing. 20 minutes when you know the missions on your second or third playthrough? Sure. But the average player is not speed running levels on their first playthrough of the game.

I also don't know what game you're referring to with the buzzy beetles so I can't comment on that.

The Destiny campaign missions aren't generally made up of unique content. This is easily proven by the entire shared instance stuff. The reason you can inhabit the same instance as other players doing completely unrelated tasks is because you're still on the same level, fighting the same enemies, that are arranged in the same formations (and usually at the same level).. only when you enter darkness zones, and the game splits you off are you generally playing content that is unique to your mission.. and this content is neaerly always just a long monster room of sorts against mutliple waves of enemies. The game even goes as far as to drop you off at the same starting point for every single mission on a given planet. The repurposing is content in Destiny is crazy, and not at all comparable to prettty much any other FPS campaign.

Try to imagine having Destiny's shared world mechanic in Halo. It doesn't work at all does it? Why is that? Because every single stage is completely new content. Even areas within a stage that you revisit have completely unique encounters, and so there would never be anything to share with other players. Despite this each of Halo's 10 campaign missions are easily double the length of a typical Destiny campaign mission, whilst very, very rarely limiting your progression artifically. You can complete on of Halo's 10 missions in a timeframe similar to one of Destiny's 20, but when you do it looks something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe-q4s6b388. It looks like you're playing DooM or something comparitively.

The shared areas of the planet aren't usually actual mission areas (there are exceptions when running through them while on a mission spawns unique enemies) however darkness zones, which you call "long monster rooms" are the equivalent of a regular Halo level, but instead of one long linear path, it sits within a fully realized area of a planet with vertical space taken up above or below at any given time. Bungie themselves stated that Destiny's worlds are larger than anything they've previously made before and that's due to the layers in each world. Where when you're running through a building killing enemies, there's playable game space above the ceiling or below the ground you're standing on. You may travel there during the mission, you may not. But it's there. That's why they continue to use the same worlds for new missions, utilizing different paths that cross over other paths in different ways. Halo levels, like pretty much all FPS campaign levels are comprised of a path that leads one direction. There may sometimes be slightly different branches but you're headed all one direction regardless. Destiny's planets are built like sandboxes and the missions take place within the sandboxes, utilizing various paths with relatively few areas that are completely off limits except when on a specific mission or strike.

Oh.. and you do not get dropped off at the same starting point for every mission on a given planet. Starting points vary by mission.

To claim that a Destiny level contains even half of the content of a Halo level is pretty much ridiculous by any metric. If the game takes you longer to playthrough, that is owed almost entirely to factors other than the game's actual content (such as wanting to be a certain level before attempting the next mission).

EDIT: Also, since you consider howlongtobeat dubious. I'd like to know where your 14-18 hour estimation is coming from.

You say it's ridiculous but Bungie themselves have said that the Destiny's levels are larger than anything they've built before. If I want to know how large a building is, I'll trust the architect more than a guy passing by.

My estimation for all the numbers I posted was from a quick search of articles and various forum postings. Which is why my numbers have such a large variable. Halo's numbers have a 6 hour swing from lowest to highest, Destiny has a 4 hour swing. I wasn't trying to look for a refined number that represents the average, just a range of time taken to beat as a range gives a pretty good idea of general length without having to delve into the intricacies of difficulty level, player skill, fireteams or not, etc..


The reason why How Long To Beat is dubious is because it appears the stats aren't filtered at all. Which makes the site the Wikipedia of playtimes except Wikipedia actually has staff that filters out obvious fallacy/outliers. Anyone can manipulate the results on How Long To Beat simply by entering outlandish numbers and there doesn't appear to be a way for site visitors to filter the outliers themselves.

 

[Caja 117]

Its not exactly open world like Witcher 3. Lets be honest. Each area seems slightly larger than most levels in other games.

Edit... And Witcher 3 has more varied content in the base game than Destiny with all expansions.

Im not even comparing Witcher 3 with Destiny, compared to Witcher 3 Destiny is a joke. Im making parallel comparisons.

Once again, Destiny is a large scale Halo ODST.

Well, I haven't played The Witcher 3, so I can't really weigh in on that one.

I'm probably not doing a very good job of portraying what I'm trying to say really, so it may not really be worth continuing to discuss it (especially with this really being a Warframe topic). Basically, I don't consider surface area to mean much if it's largely empty If I placed a large map with some enemies dotted about (that respawn continuously in the same fashion) around the arenas in Smash TV, I wouldn't say that the game now has significantly more content. The content is still in those localized zone, and it still resorts to frequently locking you in to ensure that it lasts the required amount of time to appear substantial. The reason I linked to the Halo vid, is because that's almost 15 minutes of pure progression. The game isn't ensuring that the player remains in each key room for 3-4 minutes to prevent the stage being over in 4 minutes total. By comparison, that's pretty much what Destiny's campaign does, and so when you return to a level and play it efficiently, you realise that you actually progress very little in each stage. They're pretty much 3 or so main encounters with a leisurely ride across some terrain to get you from your constant start point, to where the mission actually takes place. If Destiny's world contained everything Halo's stages have within them, the game would have plenty of varied tasks to complete, and wouldn't like every level is The Library. Because really.. every level is The Library (I can't believe they actually called a level The Archive... and it's the worst level in the game again).

The thing is is that it is an incorrect perspective, Destiny maps are open world, meaning you dont have a lineal path to take, (even tough the missions follow a lineal path), Destiny planets are open world maps that are separated by Areas with distinctive architecture that a comparable to each Halo mission (or any other lineal shooter) and the encounter with enemies are more or less the same with enemies placed in large group in specific points in the map, they act as small hordes of enemy in every checkpoint, only difference is that in Destiny you only have a checkpoint when you reach the Mission objective and if you want you can just run trough any horde if you choose two, while lineal games put an invisible checkpoint barrier when you get to every horde of enemies.

Then you have to also consider that Destiny offers weapons and armor configuration plus a Character perk system which it gives some depth into the content that it is offered, you are not restrained by the pre-defined weapons and general aesthetic present in a Lineal Shooter.

One is not better than the other they are different, but the content offered I will say is as varied as any other lineal shooter, and, Yes I do take consideration in the strikes and raids as they do add to the story BUngie is trying to tell, regardless if some people consider that Destiny doesn't have have story.

 

[Mass Effect]

Free to play with lots of grinding and microtransactions. I'd rather play Destiny, especially after House of Wolves.

As someone who plays both, Warframe is so much less grindy than Destiny.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Yea, I'm saying Destiny's campaign length is roughly on par with other FPS games. Jest Chillin was claiming it to be substantially longer however. What I am saying however is that this campaign contains less content variety than comparable games.

Destiny may have 5 areas per planet, but it only has 4 planets. Watch the link showing Assault on the Control Room in Halo, and then in your mind try partitioning what you see into Destiny style "areas"? It begins to add up quick across Halo's 10 completely unique levels, that aren't simply dropping you off at the same point each time so you can trverse a bit of barren terrain until you reach the next localised area of the map where something happens. All it takes for Halo to have Destiny beat in terms of "areas" would be for each level to equal 2 of them. It goes waaaaay beyond doing that.

I did not say substantially. I said Longer. Even given the numbers I presented.. Destiny at a 14 hour completion on it's lower end and a Halo game at a 13 hour completion at it's higher end are not "substantially" different clear times. Destiny does take longer though and that's without doing Bounties, Patrols, most Strikes or the Raid, which are all PvE content that would add to the completion time even if only considering playing through them once.

I'm also not seeing a whole lot of unique in that video you linked earlier. The player is speed running through.. passing whoever he can, shooting who he can't.. through hallways and bridges through most of the level. Then there are points where he jumps into a vehicle and traverses short distances to other parts of the level. This is literally the same thing that happens in a couple of Destiny missions and numerous strikes.

 

[Basilisco V.]

Bungie deserves all the jabs is receiving, is kind of pathetic how they treat their fanbase. And for me Warframe wins over Destiny over one simply thing: the friggin ingame chat wich has also a tab for recruiting people. In my +400 hours of Warframe (PC) I have had the tenth part of problems looking for people to do endgame compared to Destiny and using forums and the app.

 

[Zakalwe]

As someone who plays both, Warframe is so much less grindy than Destiny.

Haha, not at all. Warframe is almost nothing but grind and waiting.

 

[Caja 117]

Bungie deserves all the jabs is receiving, is kind of pathetic how they treat their fanbase. And for me Warframe wins over Destiny over one simply thing: the friggin ingame chat wich has also a tab for recruiting people. In my +400 hours of Warframe (PC) I have had the tenth part of problems looking for people to do endgame compared to Destiny and using forums and the app.

Im not sure how it is in PC, but my experience is that everyday its get harder to try and convice a random person to join you for a coop activity in any FPS, to a point where I only play with my friends, is not like Halo 3 days that you sent an invite and people joined you, now all I get is ignored or a reply saying "Get on my level noob", games are getting easier to have social activities with people, but people are getting more antisocial, i find.

 

[Zakalwe]

Im not sure how it is in PC, but my experience is that everyday its get harder to try and convice a random person to join you for a coop activity in any FPS, to a point where I only play with my friends, is not like Halo 3 days that you sent an invite and people joined you, now all I get is ignored or a reply saying "Get on my level noob"

Try getting on their level? Might help.

 

[Caja 117]

Try getting on their level? Might help.

hahahaha, I was on their level, that sentence implies that they think Im not good enough in skills to play with them, this is talking about crucible matches, or the same happened in BF4, Halo reach was more like getting ignored. I havent played CoD since black ops 1 so I cant say about how it is there,

 

[Night Angel]

Haha, not at all. Warframe is almost nothing but grind and waiting.

But you have more options. Instead of only having a nightfall, raid, and PoE to grind once a week (plus PvP), you have many different end-game missions to grind for different parts. You can grind up a frame you missed, or that weapon dropped only by a certain random encounter. You can go top up some materials, or get your factions ranked up. You can finally go fill up that planet so you can drop a resource extractor on it. You can sit like an ass in a defense mission and get plebs to level up your shit. You can run a raid that is admittedly not great, similar to Crota in that it's not very satisfying. You can raid 2x a day if you want. You can run random alerts for extra rewards.

Destiny's new expansion held me for 2 weeks. Got 2 characters to 34. Whoopee. Now what?

 

[Trogdor1123]

Bungie deserves all the jabs is receiving, is kind of pathetic how they treat their fanbase. And for me Warframe wins over Destiny over one simply thing: the friggin ingame chat wich has also a tab for recruiting people. In my +400 hours of Warframe (PC) I have had the tenth part of problems looking for people to do endgame compared to Destiny and using forums and the app.

End game stuff is easy to find people for. The mid level stuff and planet clears is difficult.

 

[Moon_frogger]

I also find all the arguments about war frame having so many updates/ui tweaks etc pretty hilarious. This isn't 'free stuff'. War frame was broken and horrible at release. Yes the devs should be praised for working so hard to bring game up to snuff but honestly this stuff should have been there to begin with. It's the bare minimum they need to be doing to keep the game alive. You can't use that as an argument for f2p games.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I also find all the arguments about war frame having so many updates/ui tweaks etc pretty hilarious. This isn't 'free stuff'. War frame was broken and horrible at release. Yes the devs should be praised for working so hard to bring game up to snuff but honestly this stuff should have been there to begin with. It's the bare minimum they need to be doing to keep the game alive. You can't use that as an argument for f2p games.

I agree but at least they are doing it and are clearly approaching it I'm a positive way.

 

[Feonix]

Destiny has more grind than Warframe has. Stop defending the grind.

Sorry, but no, it absolutely does not. You can get the best weapons and armor the game has to offer pretty damn quickly. Hell, once a week a guy literally shows up to sell exotics for coins you swim around in by endgame just from playing.

I love Warframe, but it is pretty grindy. Just getting a new frame without spending any money took me almost a week straight, let alone getting all of the add-ons, mods, weapons... I really enjoyed it but I'll be honest, it felt very grindy. I haven't grinded in Destiny for anything once, and I have at least 8 exotics. There's not much to really grind for.

 

[Synth]

Gonna have to skip over some stuff, or just touch on them very briefly here, because when you get into response cycles like this, they tend to snowball as each response becomes more detailed than that last. If there's anything specific that I miss, that you want me to address, just point it out.

.

20 minutes for a mission isn't very unlikely at all. I dunno, maybe I should just create a new character and do my best impression of some first time play to get a time on how long the missions take me. The missions are on average very short though, that I know for certain.

The darkness zone's aren't equivalent to a Halo level at all. That's nonsense. Go pick ANY darkness zone in Destiny, and compare it to a Halo level... any. I understand that it generally makes sense to believe a dev over a player, but Bungie's Molyneux-esque claims for Destiny have been shown to be hilariously inaccurate plenty of times. They had a game to sell. They initially claimed that each planet was going to larger than the entirety of Halo: Reach. Their word isn't worth much here. That par time video shows, that Halo levels are lengthy not purely as a result of your progress being blocked off. That run contains pretty much no situations where the player becomes trapped for an extended time window in order to pad the level's length out. You say it's just like Destiny? Watch this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z-6PG3hKak

This is what happens when you approach a Destiny level in a similar fashion. At 40 seconds the player gains control, at 3mins 30 they've reached their final destination "a monster room... surprise!", and then they remain in that room fighting waves of enemies until 6mins 10. End level. Now, this player is overlevelled, however the area of the run that would have impacted most is actually just the end, as that's where your progression would be halted... so he would have just spent even longer fighting those waves of enemies there. And besides, the game being artificially lengthen by the levelling rather than content is my argument rather than yours anyway.

I was wrong about the drop-off point though, I'll give you that. They do however tend to drop you off someone other than where the mission takes place, so the first thing you'll often do is immediately summon a sparrow the moment you gain control.

Buzzy Beetles are from the original Super Mario Bros on NES btw. They replace Goombas on your subsquent runs after beating the game. Basicallty extending the playtime despite not offering new content.

only difference is that in Destiny you only have a checkpoint when you reach the Mission objective and if you want you can just run trough any horde if you choose two, while lineal games put an invisible checkpoint barrier when you get to every horde of enemies.

Sorry for skimming over your post. I just wanted to point out that the purpose of posting the Halo vid I did, was specifically to show how it isn't blocking you off with a progression barrier. The player is free to push past the enemies, and this is absolutely required to have any hope of hitting the par time. Now in The Library when Guilty Spark has to run off and open hack the doors whilst you defend yourself from The Flood, this is the case. Same when Halo 4 pulls the same trick at specific points in Halo 4... however it's not a fundamental, recurring element of the game's level design, whilst in Destiny it is. Your ghost wants to be put into pretty much everything, and it nearly always ends up with you getting mobbed in a stationary location for a while.

 

[PnCIa]

Oh i get it now. I live in a world where i buy full retail games and dont buy DLC or small microtransactions, only when i buy some sort of GOTY version later that includes it.

I am serious about this, i did not realize that it is possible to actually sell a bunch of animations. Are people that stupid? Are they? Because, i cant imagine that anyone would pay 20 dollars for a few animation frames and some new shaders. They are selling shaders for fucks sake. Fucking shaders. Probably ones with some new color values, and then some sparks on top.
What has this industry become!? Maybe i am just too much out of the loop and backwards, maybe too old. Holy shit.

Its funny that devs are making fun of this practice, and yet...i would imagine that the Bungie from Halo 2 times would have made the same jokes. Oh how times have changed.

 

[Caja 117]

Gonna have to skip over some stuff, or just touch on them very briefly here, because when you get into response cycles like this, they tend to snowball as each response becomes more detailed than that last. If there's anything specific that I miss, that you want me to address, just point it out.



20 minutes for a mission isn't very unlikely at all. I dunno, maybe I should just create a new character and do my best impression of some first time play to get a time on how long the missions take me. The missions are on average very short though, that I know for certain.

The darkness zone's aren't equivalent to a Halo level at all. That's nonsense. Go pick ANY darkness zone in Destiny, and compare it to a Halo level... any. I understand that it generally makes sense to believe a dev over a player, but Bungie's Molyneux-esque claims for Destiny have been shown to be hilariously inaccurate plenty of times. They had a game to sell. They initially claimed that each planet was going to larger than the entirety of Halo: Reach. Their word isn't worth much here. That par time video shows, that Halo levels are lengthy not purely as a result of your progress being blocked off. That run contains pretty much no situations where the player becomes trapped for an extended time window in order to pad the level's length out. You say it's just like Destiny? Watch this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z-6PG3hKak

This is what happens when you approach a Destiny level in a similar fashion. At 40 seconds the player gains control, at 3mins 30 they've reached their final destination "a monster room... surprise!", and then they remain in that room fighting waves of enemies until 6mins 10. End level. Now, this player is overlevelled, however the area of the run that would have impacted most is actually just the end, as that's where your progression would be halted... so he would have just spent even longer fighting those waves of enemies there. And besides, the game being artificially lengthen by the levelling rather than content is my argument rather than yours anyway.

I was wrong about the drop-off point though, I'll give you that. They do however tend to drop you off someone other than where the mission takes place, so the first thing you'll often do is immediately summon a sparrow the moment you gain control.

Buzzy Beetles are from the original Super Mario Bros on NES btw. They replace Goombas on your subsquent runs after beating the game. Basicallty extending the playtime despite not offering new content.

Thats what I was saying in my post, the darkness zones are basically the Objective of the mission, anything before is up to the player to just go trough it wihout doing any encounter if they wish too, Games like Halo usually have different checkpoints troughs the mission creating an invisible wall to go trough the hordes of enemies.

Now, compare Destiny to Halo ODST, you have and open world map where you could go wherever you want to reach certain points where you could start a mission, the similarities are there you even have enemies in the open world that you can just choose not to fight.

Strikes and Raids do have a better linear FPS structure than the rest of Destiny missions

 

[Synth]

Thats what I was saying in my post, the darkness zones are basically the Objective of the mission, anything before is up to the player to just go trough it wihout doing any encounter if they wish too, Games like Halo usually have different checkpoints troughs the mission creating an invisible wall to go trough the hordes of enemies.

Now, compare Destiny to Halo ODST, you have and open world map where you could go wherever you want to reach certain points where you could start a mission, the similarities are there you even have enemies in the open world that you can just choose not to fight.

Strikes and Raids do have a better linear FPS structure than the rest of Destiny missions

I edited in a reponse to you btw.

I agree with the ODST comparison.. but I think that's pretty much all we actually agree on, lol

 

[NullPointer]

Not sure if joke post or serious post, tbh. It's 95% the exact same content/areas/enemies.

Not even close.

The entire UI has changed from the ground up, there is an entirely new damage system, a melee system with combos, a player ship, space combat, social hubs (space stations), companion creatures and genetic engineering (Kubrows), syndicate factions and rep, raids, PvP, Player controlled regions of space, player-hunters that respond to player actions seeking revenge, quests, a 3d in-game codex, and a shitton of new modes including the stealth redo of spy missions, gear, enemies and warframes. They've also overhauled the performance on everything and are gradually phasing assets upgraded with physically based rendering.

And plenty more to come, including redoing parkour and a new faction and underwater action. Thats just off the top of my head but I compiled a list back in December for a thread (filled with broken minus.com images) here.

95% the same content? That's mindbogglingly incorrect.

Edit: Unless we're talking about Destiny, in which case OK. Carry on ;p