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[Tacitus_]

so how big are those ships

like

in reference to other ships

like compared to a death star

Gloriana class battleships were around 20km in length and the Abyss class "easily eclipsed them". Death Star had a diameter of 160-180km and the Super Star destroyer Vader had was a puny 1.6km.

Been away for awhile, what is going on with this Primaris stuff? Is it a soft reboot of the entire SM line to truescale?

Basically, yeah. In-universe they are a contingency measure set by Guilliman that Archmagos Cawl has been working on for the past ten millennia. Stronger, faster and larger than regular marines and some heavy tech-heresy.

 

[HariKari]

Basically, yeah. In-universe they are a contingency measure set by Guilliman that Archmagos Cawl has been working on for the past ten millennia. Stronger, faster and larger than regular marines and some heavy tech-heresy.

Inceptors aside, they look really nice. Have they said anything about phasing out the old marines?

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

Inceptors aside, they look really nice. Have they said anything about phasing out the old marines?

rumors point to an upgrade process to make old marines into primaris marines.

one of the first models IC's to be updated into primaris will be Ragnar Blackmane.

some fluff rumored is that older marines wont undergo the process, (grimnar, ulrik and such).


the time table is there, but the full rescale of everything is most likely 3+ years away, it'll be a slow process not to upset and alienate the base.

part of the reason is Primaris SPace marine is copy roghtable and trademarkable, while space marine wasn't.

the line updates are as much about line improvements and $$ as it is about IP protection.

 

[Tacitus_]

Inceptors aside, they look really nice. Have they said anything about phasing out the old marines?

Not really. Regular marines can be upgraded to Primaris, but in-universe people are distrustful of tampering with the Emperors work and out of universe, they don't want the backlash from making peoples collections worthless.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

Not really. Regular marines can be upgraded to Primaris, but in-universe people are distrustful of tampering with the Emperors work and out of universe, they don't want the backlash from making peoples collections worthless.

I don't believe that at all. What I've read of some of the new stuff suggests they are going to replace everything. The whole "Blood Angels trapped on their own!" plot ended up being resolved with

Spoiler

a very short story where the Blood Angels and their successors get wiped out down to just a few Marines, only to have Guilliman just suddenly appear and save the day at the last minute...which meant the whole story felt forced in just to give them an excuse to make the entire chapter Primaris Marines. It was lazy and overall uninteresting both in what happened (beyond Daemons doing something wierd) and how it was resolved, utterly pointless but it convenienty gave them an excuse for an entire chapter of Primaris Marine Blood Angels

The way they've even been refering to Primaris Marines suggests they're going to be a replacement for the 'current' version. Mentions of Space Marines have talked about the Primaris Marines as if they are the basic Space Marines now. For example:

The way things are worded there heavily suggests the Primaris Marines are just what the Space Marines as a whole are all about now, both in lore and out-of-universe.

Even Chararcters being upgraded ot them supports that the old versions will be gone at some point.

I think the whole concept Primaris Marines is one of the worst things GW have done both from a lore standpoint and in terms of the game/hobby itself, other than getting rid of WHF entirely,

 

[cntr]

They can't totally replace normal Space Marines, since 30k still exists.

But for 40k? Yeah, no way it doesn't happen eventually.

(...or is it 41k now?)

 

[Mikeside]

to be honest I hope they do replace regular
they look so much better being that little bit larger - remember, marines are SUPPOSED to be bigger than regular humans


doesn't mean people's armies are worthless anymore - you can allow people to play a tactical squad of regular marines even if they start selling them with primaris sculpts

 

[Leunam]

Interesting that it's Blood Angels that seem to be going the all-Primaris route if the above is true.

That means new models for Sanguinary Guard and Death Company if they want to retain a big part of their visual identity. Would be a shame if such wonderful designs were lost.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

to be honest I hope they do replace regular
they look so much better being that little bit larger - remember, marines are SUPPOSED to be bigger than regular humans

doesn't mean people's armies are worthless anymore - you can allow people to play a tactical squad of regular marines even if they start selling them with primaris sculpts

I find this to be an pretty absurd justification that misses the point. Yes, Space Marines are supposed to be bigger than Average humans and in terms of the models, that wasn't quite right before...but Primaris Marines only make it worse.

Primaris Marines don't represent Space Marines as they were, considering they're bigger than the original ones are meant to be in the lore. Then there's that if you're using Primaris to represent true-scale Space Marines, while if you take something like a Guardsman, the Primaris will be a more appropriate scale for a Space Marine...but things like the Eldar and Orks are then completely out of scale more so than before.

As for the "not making people's armies worthless" there's more to it than just the look of the models. Saying "we're replacing all your stuff but that's fine you can still use it as this new different thing, sort of!" is what they did with WHF and AoS, just on a lesser scale and not as sudden. Then there's how forced the whole idea is and how it makes no real sense with the lore and the setting itself.

 

[SillyEskimo]

to be honest I hope they do replace regular
they look so much better being that little bit larger - remember, marines are SUPPOSED to be bigger than regular humans


doesn't mean people's armies are worthless anymore - you can allow people to play a tactical squad of regular marines even if they start selling them with primaris sculpts

Yeah, they do indeed look better.

But it isn't just the marines themselves that are being out dated. In the latest White Dwarf there is a breakdown of all the new bolt style and other primaris weapons. Before it was bolt pistol, bolter, storm bolter, and heavy bolter. Now there are also assualt bolters, bolt rifles/autobolt rifles, boltstorm gauntlets, bolt carbines, and specialist pistols like what the chaplin and apothecary have. The same thing is happening with assualt cannons, plasma weapons, and looks to be happening with heavy stubbers too.

Old space marines are being eclipsed.

I'm not super crushed or anything, but it is interesting to see it all unfold. I'm still painting up my regular marines as wellas the new ones. But goddamn my scout sgt looks like a child standing next to a completed primaris.

I actually wish for primaris terminators more than anything!

 

[Mikeside]

Yeah, they do indeed look better.

But it isn't just the marines themselves that are being out dated. In the latest White Dwarf there is a breakdown of all the new bolt style and other primaris weapons. Before it was bolt pistol, bolter, storm bolter, and heavy bolter. Now there are also assualt bolters, bolt rifles/autobolt rifles, boltstorm gauntlets, bolt carbines, and specialist pistols like what the chaplin and apothecary have. The same thing is happening with assualt cannons, plasma weapons, and looks to be happening with heavy stubbers too.

Old space marines are being eclipsed.

I'm not super crushed or anything, but it is interesting to see it all unfold. I'm still painting up my regular marines as wellas the new ones. But goddamn my scout sgt looks like a child standing next to a completed primaris.

I actually wish for primaris terminators more than anything!

oh I'm sure we'll get those before too long.
What's going to take time will be replacing all the characters!

 

[Xis]

Story-wise, they have definitely indicated Primaris are eventually replacing regular marines.

In terms of chapter organisation. they've gone out of their way to make Primaris not replace much of anything. There are no Primaris Devastators, or Terminators, or Assault marines. All of the new units are similar to, but also pretty different from, existing units. The tactical guys being the only 100% straight up swap.

 

[Tacitus_]

The way they've even been refering to Primaris Marines suggests they're going to be a replacement for the 'current' version. Mentions of Space Marines have talked about the Primaris Marines as if they are the basic Space Marines now. For example:

Right. They are most likely going to replace the old line, but GW isn't going to come out and say it. There just will be no new models in the old scale or something similar.

oh I'm sure we'll get those before too long.
What's going to take time will be replacing all the characters!

Totally not primaris terminators *cough*

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Getting rid of WHF was the best thing that GW did for itself though.

 

[Keasar]

Getting rid of WHF was the best thing that GW did for itself though.

Why? I quite liked the WHF universe.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Why? I quite liked the WHF universe.

It was not selling well and more people were not liking how it played in the later editions. And don't get me started on the universe of WHF.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

Getting rid of WHF was the best thing that GW did for itself though.

AoS being more played than WHF in it's last iteration doesn't mean that getting rid of WHF was the right choice, not when it wasn't just the setting that changed. AoS is smaller scale, simpler, faster and less expensive, there are many reasons for the game becoming more popular that extend beyond the setting change itself. I don't see any reason to believe a WHF version of the same game (alongside the full-scale WHF) wouldn't have been just as if not more popular than AoS. I doubt many people were interested in AoS because it meant WHF was gone.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

AoS being more played than WHF in it's last iteration doesn't mean that getting rid of WHF was the right choice, not when it wasn't just the setting that changed. AoS is smaller scale, simpler, faster and less expensive, there are many reasons for the game becoming more popular that extend beyond the setting change itself. I don't see any reason to believe a WHF version of the same game (alongside the full-scale WHF) wouldn't have been just as if not more popular than AoS. I doubt many people were interested in AoS because it meant WHF was gone.

The problem is that not a lot of people were playing WHF by the time the End Times started. But people didn't give AoS a chance and just blew it off because it replace it. And you do have a point about how they could've made a similar game.
On a another note. It feels like what 40k right now is the evolution of what they were doing with AoS and using that as a explore new ideas for 40k.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

The problem is that not a lot of people were playing WHF by the time the End Times started. But people didn't give AoS a chance and just blew it off because it replace it. And you do have a point about how they could've made a similar game.
On a another note. It feels like what 40k right now is the evolution of what they were doing with AoS and using that as a explore new ideas for 40k.

Yes, not a lot of people were playing WHF, but that in no way means AoS was a good choice and it was what was needed. Not many people would have jumped over to AoS because of the lore change, it would have been the changes to the game itself (size, cost, simplicity etc) that have made it more popular. They could very easily have kept the lore (with some updates, obviously) and made an AoS-style game spinoff.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Yes, not a lot of people were playing WHF, but that in no way means AoS was a good choice and it was what was needed. Not many people would have jumped over to AoS because of the lore change, it would have been the changes to the game itself (size, cost, simplicity etc) that have made it more popular. They could very easily have kept the lore (with some updates, obviously) and made an AoS-style game spinoff.

But they didn't do and here we are.
In others news..Forge World has released what models will be available on Open Day.

 

[War Peaceman]

As someone who played a lot of Fantasy, the Old World was boring and limited. Yes there was nostalgia for some cool characters and a few nice oddities (Chaos are always pretty great), but it was so reliant on established Tolkein lore and so limited in scope as to make it bad.

They did a terrible launch of AOS. Atrocious. But I actually prefer what is to the world that was.

 

[Leunam]

That Blood Bowl minotaur is fantastic. I hope that means FW has a sneak peak at what the newest Blood Bowl release could be and they're hinting at Chaos or Beastmen.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

That Blood Bowl minotaur is fantastic. I hope that means FW has a sneak peak at what the newest Blood Bowl release could be and they're hinting at Chaos or Beastmen.

They have been doing that with all of the Blood Bowl character models. I know they released some Skaven models for it.

 

[Tacitus_]

But they didn't do and here we are.
In others news..Forge World has released what models will be available on Open Day.

That Sicaran Omega is ridiculous...
I want one.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

As someone who played a lot of Fantasy, the Old World was boring and limited. Yes there was nostalgia for some cool characters and a few nice oddities (Chaos are always pretty great), but it was so reliant on established Tolkein lore and so limited in scope as to make it bad.

They did a terrible launch of AOS. Atrocious. But I actually prefer what is to the world that was.

How was it "so reliant on established Tolkien"? Sure you had things like the usual fantasy Dwarves, Orcs and Elves but then you had things like Skaven, Lizardmen, Tomb Kings, The Empire etc and even those shared races had their own spin on them like the 3 different types of Elves and the technologically advanced Dwarves, which set it apart from Tolkien.

 

[Leunam]

They have been doing that with all of the Blood Bowl character models. I know they released some Skaven models for it.

Is it in one of the supplement books? I must have missed it. I know there's a model for Griff Oberwald, Mighty Zug, and that fat Skaven dude for instance.

After I've collected the five major teams released I'll start converting a new team. Hopefully by then we'll know what's next in the pipeline.

 

[Tacitus_]

How was it "so reliant on established Tolkien"? Sure you had things like the usual fantasy Dwarves, Orcs and Elves but then you had things like Skaven, Lizardmen, Tomb Kings, The Empire etc and even those shared races had their own spin on them like the 3 different types of Elves and the technologically advanced Dwarves, which set it apart from Tolkien.

They can't copyright (or trademark?) orcs or elves or dwarves. So now Orks are Orruks and so on. They even changed Eldar and Tau in 40k.

 

[Enosh]

Gloriana class battleships were around 20km in length and the Abyss class "easily eclipsed them". Death Star had a diameter of 160-180km and the Super Star destroyer Vader had was a puny 1.6km.

that's normal ISDs, SSDs are around 20km

 

[TheVoidDragon]

They can't copyright (or trademark?) orcs or elves or dwarves. So now Orks are Orruks and so on. They even changed Eldar and Tau in 40k.

That's just to do with the name, though. That doesn't have anything to do with the core concept of them.

I didn't know they'd changed the name of the Tau though, what is it now?

 

[Enosh]

Oh great, so there is a general thread for the best sci-fi-fantasy universe on GAF!

Was wondering why I had never looked it up before.

Also, would like some suggestions on novels for Warhammer 40K, have most of the Ciaphas Cain series and Gaunt's Ghost series (gonna get the rest of the books and complete those), the Eisenhorn Omnibus (still not read but plan to) but looking for other suggested books that people would recommend as good?
Preferably Imperial focused but dirty xenos' can be fun to read about too.
No Chaos allowed however, fuck those traitors.

do read Fabius Bilerimogenitor, one of the best 40k books released in the past few years imo (well takes place more like idk, 33-34k or somewhere around there)

some great characters and they are almost all chaos marine apothecaries which is a pretty rare pov

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

That's just to do with the name, though. That doesn't have anything to do with the core concept of them.

I didn't know they'd changed the name of the Tau though, what is it now?

I don't think they change the Tau name.

 

[Keasar]

do read Fabius Bilerimogenitor, one of the best 40k books released in the past few years imo (well takes place more like idk, 33-34k or somewhere around there)

some great characters and they are almost all chaos marine apothecaries which is a pretty rare pov

Like I said, no heresy allowed!

Also, isn't Fabius the really creepy dude who has a unhealthy obsession with wearing people?

Bile wears a floor-length coat of flayed human skin, taken from the bodies of the dead on Istvaan V.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

I mean..yeah.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Fabius Bile is cool

Did they make him into a neutral character? I could've sworn he had an allegiance to Slaanesh 10 years ago..

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Fabius Bile is cool

Did they make him into a neutral character? I could've sworn he had an allegiance to Slaanesh 10 years ago..

He is mostly working for himself. I think the Sleenesh thing only for the Emperor Children legion itself.

 

[Enosh]

Fabius Bile is cool

Did they make him into a neutral character? I could've sworn he had an allegiance to Slaanesh 10 years ago..

Spoiler

he actually doesn't believe in gods
which he says to the face of a demon, it's hilarious

but it makes total sense, he's big on science and has been indoctrinated with the imperial truth for like 2 centuries, so it's totally in character that he is skeptical about their divinity, besides the chaos gods being "gods" has always been a matter of debate

 

[BreezyLimbo]

He is mostly working for himself. I think the Sleenesh thing only for the Emperor Children legion itself.

Oh gotcha. I always saw him aligned to Slaanesh for some reason.

Spoiler

he actually doesn't believe in gods
which he says to the face of a demon, it's hilarious

but it makes total sense, he's big on science and has been indoctrinated with the imperial truth for like 2 centuries, so it's totally in character that he is skeptical about their divinity, besides the chaos gods being "gods" has always been a matter of debate

That's hilarious. I assume the book posted last page about him is pretty good then?

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Spoiler

he actually doesn't believe in gods
which he says to the face of a demon, it's hilarious

but it makes total sense, he's big on science and has been indoctrinated with the imperial truth for like 2 centuries, so it's totally in character that he is skeptical about their divinity, besides the chaos gods being "gods" has always been a matter of debate

Spoiler

He also has been working on genetic material of the space marines and to an extend the primarchs.

Oh gotcha. I always saw him aligned to Slaanesh for some reason.

Most of the old school legionaries from the Great Crusades were atheists. Some of the convert to a god and some of them didn't.

 

[Enosh]

That's hilarious. I assume the book posted last page about him is pretty good then?

yep like said I thought it was great some amazing characters and world building, a lot of the book is spend in the eye so you get some great look at some of the places in there like a market place where a lot of the xenos that fled to the eye during the great crusade trade

I don't think they change the Tau name.

if you look at the GW site they spell it "T'au Empire" now instead of Tau
when in doubt, throw in an apostrophe

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

yep like said I thought it was great some amazing characters and world building, a lot of the book is spend in the eye so you get some great look at some of the places in there like a market place where a lot of the xenos that fled to the eye during the great crusade trade


if you look at the GW site they spell it "T'au Empire" now instead of Tau
when in doubt, throw in an apostrophe

I thought that was always the case? If not, that doesn't seem as bad.

 

[Tacitus_]

that's normal ISDs, SSDs are around 20km

Whoops, that's what I get for just copying the google results without looking what they are for.

That's just to do with the name, though. That doesn't have anything to do with the core concept of them.

I didn't know they'd changed the name of the Tau though, what is it now?

T'au

No, I'm not kidding.

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

I thought that was always the case? If not, that doesn't seem as bad.

it was and wasn't, in universe they were always T'au Empire but on the website and all the marketing material they were just TAU

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

it was and wasn't, in universe they were always T'au Empire but on the website and all the marketing material they were just TAU

That is what I thought. I know they have the T'au spelling in the Soulstorm game.

 

[War Peaceman]

Whoops, that's what I get for just copying the google results without looking what they are for.



T'au

No, I'm not kidding.

fyi T'au is not a new thing, it is the name of their capital and has been since conception. Though I don't have the 3rd ed book to hand to verify that.

 

[Tacitus_]

fyi T'au is not a new thing, it is the name of their capital and has been since conception. Though I don't have the 3rd ed book to hand to verify that.

Is that so? They switched over to using the apostrophe at the same time as they came up with new names for the Eldar so I thought Tau got the same treatment.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

Whoops, that's what I get for just copying the google results without looking what they are for.



T'au

No, I'm not kidding.

I was under the impression that that isn't really a change. T'au has been the name of their home planet/home Sept since their introduction, so the Empire being called the T'au as the "official/proper" version of their name makes sense. With the other races it's not an actual change anyway, just an additional name.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Is that so? They switched over to using the apostrophe at the same time as they came up with new names for the Eldar so I thought Tau got the same treatment.

I think they just realize that they needed to change the name now.

 

[Mudcrab]

Leak of Daemon Primarch Mortarion:

 

[SillyEskimo]

At first glance I like the insect wings but do not like the way the model is painted.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Damn.