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[themadcowtipper]

GOLIAD, TEXAS) -- There was no shortage of volunteers last night as the controversial Minuteman civilian border patrol organization gathered in this historic south Texas town to organize anti illegal immigrant activities in Texas.

Many volunteers said illegal immigration needs to be stopped, and since the federal government is unable or unwilling to do it, then its up to civilians to step in and get it done.

"Our children can't get out into our yards," rancher and Texas Minuteman leader Bill Parmley told the group. "We're afraid. Something has to be done."

The location of the meeting in Goliad was significant. The city was the home of many of the volunteers who died fighting the Mexican army at the Alamo in 1836.

Many volunteers complained that their lives have been 'turned upside down' by the surge in illegal immigration. They told of having illegals kicking down doors, damaging their property, and stealing livestock.

And there was a lot of frustration with what the volunteers perceived to be the federal government's inaction on the problem.

"We have met with our senators, we have sent letters to President Bush, we have gone all the way to Washington, and still no response," Parmley told 1200 WOAI's Charity McCurdy. "All we're doing is what President bush asked us to do after 9-11, to be observant citizens and look for suspicious activity and call it in. That's all we're doing."

But several civil rights leaders at the rally said the Minutemen go a lot further than that. Che Lopez compared the volunteers at last night's rally to the Ku Klux Klan.

"Just basically racially profiling people. Pulling them out of their cars. Intimidating them."

Minutemen organizer Chris Simcox said he plans to have four chapters of the group patrolling the Texas-Mexico border in October. A Minuteman action in Arizona in April had mixed results.

"We are here at the invitation of Texans," Simcox said. "Over 7,000 requests from citizens of Texans who are fed up with President Bush, and are growing weary of the situation we have on our borders."

But not all Texans are excited about the presence of the Minutemen in Texas, and one of them is Senator John Cornyn, who this weekend introduced a measure calling for comprehensive changes in border security, and the hiring of 10,000 additional sworn officers of the U.S. Border Patrol.

"I don't think that it is in the best interests of the country to have untrained people, who not withstanding their best of intentions, might find themselves involved in violent and unexpected situations along our border," Cornyn said, adding that he understands the 'frustrations' of the Minutemen and their supporters.

"I recognize that citizens think it has fallen to them in the absence of the federal government living up to its responsibilities to provide that security along our border."

But last night in Golaid, volunteers weren't interested in Senate resolutions or debates on international migration. They are increasingly frustrated with that they see as a growing threat to their lives and the security of the United States, and they want action.

"I don't think that the federal government has the ability to take care of it," one volunteer said. "I think they need help, and I'm ready to help."
http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=64230380-765E-43AE-ACD7-82CC0D612AB5

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Good. If people want to live here, it should be done through legal means. The government is too piss scared to be called racists to get shit done, I say let the people do it.

 

[ronito]

It's not so much that the government is afraid to be called racist, it's much more afraid about cutting off cheap labor to major companies and cutting off Mexico's largest income of money (migrant workers sending money home).

 

[way more]

I suppose I'm fine with this as long as they don't kill/rape/torture anyone.

 

[blahness]

It's not so much that the government is afraid to be called racist, it's much more afraid about cutting off cheap labor to major companies and cutting off Mexico's largest income of money (migrant workers sending money home).

i was going to say that its not that they are afraid to be called racist.. its that each party is afraid they will lose the votes and potential votes from hispanics if they crack down on illegal immigration at the southern border.

 

[Warm Machine]

Watch as this spins violently out of control.

 

[olimario]

They've been very civil so far. When the capture one, they take them to border patrol and let them deal with it.

This is a good thing. If you want in, do it legally.

 

[Escape Goat]

Racial profiling? Well no shit. Its Mexicans coming into Texas illegally.

 

[dskillzhtown]

First step in Texas declaring it's independence again.

 

[Macam]

They've been very civil so far. When the capture one, they take them to border patrol and let them deal with it.

This is a good thing. If you want in, do it legally.

I would hardly qualify this as a good thing. This is like me and 5 friends getting together to form the Avengers and fight crime.

 

[ronito]

First step in Texas declaring it's independence again.

Well, that would make sense. DeLay's saying Houston's like Iraq...they have oil...Ladies and Gentlemen I give you Bush's next war.

 

[Ruzbeh]

The government is too piss scared to be called racists to get shit done, I say let the people do it.

The government doesn't too anything because the government likes the immigrants. Can't remember why, I thought it was something like the economy or something?

Anyway, those stupid Texans shouldn't be so... stupid. They act as if every immigrant is doing something bad or something. Their excuse is worse than the 'immigrants steal our jobs' excuse.

And, finally, a big WTF @ the Bush comment post-9/11 and those morons following his "orders". :lol

 

[olimario]

I would hardly qualify this as a good thing. This is like me and 5 friends getting together to form the Avengers and fight crime.

But you can. If you see somebody doing something illegal you can detain them and hand them over to the proper authorities.

When we feel our government isn't doing their job, it's our place to step up.

 

[CabbageRed]

Watch as this spins violently out of control.

It will be hard to avoid. This is going to attract a lot of unsavory people looking for power or motivated by race. The potential for "old boy's club" lack of accountability is enormous.

 

[Escape Goat]

You can call Citizen's arrest but you better sure as hell be in the right otherwise its buckets for you.

 

[dskillzhtown]

The government doesn't too anything because the government likes the immigrants. Can't remember why, I thought it was something like the economy or something?

Anyway, those stupid Texans shouldn't be so... stupid. They act as if every immigrant is doing something bad or something. Their excuse is worse than the 'immigrants steal our jobs' excuse.

And, finally, a big WTF @ the Bush comment post-9/11 and those morons following his "orders". :lol

Well, if illegals are committing crimes in a community and the police/federal agents do nothing, what are you supposed to do? I don't think they have too much of a choice in the matter. I guess protecting your property makes you stupid.

 

[Dilbert]

When we feel our government isn't doing their job, it's our place to step up.

Does that mean that I should start pulling over speeders on the interstate? How about collecting taxes from rich people I suspect of lying on their tax returns?

 

[ronito]

Does that mean that I should start pulling over speeders on the interstate? How about collecting taxes from rich people I suspect of lying on their tax returns?

Only if they're not citizens.

 

[ManaByte]

But you can. If you see somebody doing something illegal you can detain them and hand them over to the proper authorities.

When we feel our government isn't doing their job, it's our place to step up.

You'll find that the Illegal Immigrant Rights Activists (yes, they exist) will tell you that people sneaking across the border have every right to illegally sneak into the country.

These whack-jobs get on the radio here in San Diego and it usually goes like this:

Host: "These people sneaking across the border a breaking the law, how can you say they have every right to do it?"

Illegal Immigrant Rights Activist: "You're racially profiling them. How do you know they aren't legal citizens and didn't lose their car in Mexico? They have every right to walk across the border and come into the country if they want to."

Host: "Ok, let me put it this way. If someone walked into your house, opened your fridge and started to eat all your food uninvited; you wouldn't call the cops and have them removed?"

Illegal Immigrant Rights Activist: "Well, I would but I don't see what that has to do with these people who come into the country for free medical care and to take advantage of the system."

Host: "Uh..."

 

[Unresponsive Bee Victim]

I think this is a very good thing.

 

[ronito]

I have an objection to this that is sort of unique. I was an immigrant with my family, and we went through substantial hardships to do it all legally. I mean we spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to do it all as it should be done. And believe me dealing with immigration is an awful, awful AWFUL thing to do.

It ticks me off that these people just cross the border and they're fine, while I spent all this time to make it all legal. No one knows about moving to america for a better life than me, however, if we're going to let them through like we do today then we should make it legal and keep track of them. Otherwise the Bush admin really needs to shut it down.

 

[Dilbert]

ManaByte -- opposing a vigilante group is NOT the same thing as supporting illegal immigration.

 

[ManaByte]

ManaByte -- opposing a vigilante group is NOT the same thing as supporting illegal immigration.

But people like to combine the two.

Hell, if someone just REPORTS someone sneaking across the border to the authorities they are immediately labeled as a racial profiler.

 

[themadcowtipper]

I can't blame these people for trying to protect their property. Its clear that the reason politicians don't do anything is because they are afraid to lose cheap labor/votes.
This is not just Bush doing , eitherThe U.S./Mexican border has been a problem since the late 60's and probably before then.

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

free medical care and to take advantage of the system.

That always gives me a kick. These people are undocumented, how exactly do you think they can take advantage of the system?

Free medical care, maybe using the ER for emergencies and such, yes, but most of these people are scared to go near hospitals for fear of being deported.


You wanna talk about taking advantage of the system? Look at the cubans that come to miami. I know of more that a few people that came here on rafts, All their paperwork in hand within a week, on welfare the next week. They have the gull to say they "deserve" to be taken care of.

 

[themadcowtipper]

That always gives me a kick. These people are undocumented, how exactly do you think they can take advantage of the system?

Free medical care, maybe using the ER for emergencies and such, yes, but most of these people are scared to go near hospitals for fear of being deported.


You wanna talk about taking advantage of the system? Look at the cubans that come to miami. I know of more that a few people that came here on rafts, All their paperwork in hand within a week, on welfare the next week. They have the gull to say they "deserve" to be taken care of.

The way they take advantage of the system is they get fake work visa's, get a job, work there for months by the time the job finds out it is a fake, the person has usually moved on. Happens all the time.I have actually witnessed it.

 

[Talas]

I only hope they don't cross paths with the cartels. There's a little war going on this side of the border, you know. Hell, our army has to patrol some border cities because of that.

 

[Kuroyume]

You watch... it won't be long before you see Texans lynching aliens... it's still in their blood.

 

[Loki]

That always gives me a kick. These people are undocumented, how exactly do you think they can take advantage of the system?

Free medical care, maybe using the ER for emergencies and such, yes, but most of these people are scared to go near hospitals for fear of being deported.

Err, in California, illegals are eligible for welfare, AFDC, and other taxpayer-funded services (including the public school system with all of its related services). Additionally, hospitals are required by law to treat any and all comers (see: EMTALA); consequently, several hospitals have had to shutter their ER's and maternity wards due to the escalating costs of treating illegals. Numerous hospital chiefs and local politicians have gone on record stating that the cost of treating illegals is bankrupting them. I'll take their word over yours any day. California is considering (or has perhaps already enacted-- I read about it a while ago) a small tax on land-line phones to help defray the costs incurred by the state as a direct consequence of illegal immigration.


But I guess they're just "imagining things." Here's an article about this issue for you. Some relevant quotes (all emphasis mine):

But his problem had grown severe. Dickson's uncompensated costs for treating illegals rose from $35,000 in 1999 to $450,000 in 2004. His total shortfall now sits at about $1.4 million, a hefty deficit for a 14-bed hospital. To make ends meet, he had to close, in June 2000, the Copper Queen's long-term care facility, and cut back on staff and hours, forcing some employees to take second jobs to survive.

The most comprehensive study on the subject found that 24 counties in four states bordering Mexico wracked up $190 million in unpaid emergency medical bills caring for illegals in the year 2000. The study, commissioned by the U.S.-Mexico Border Counties Coalition, found that California spent $79 million of that; Texas, $74 million; Arizona, $31 million; and New Mexico, $6 million.

Bear in mind that these numbers, the best available, are from 2000. We can assume, with increasing rates of crossings since then, the costs are considerably higher today. Nor do the above figures take into account non-border counties. Treating illegals in Maricopa County costs as much as $50 million a year, according to an estimate used by Republican Sen. Jon Kyl. Nationally, American hospitals lose $1.45 billion a year.

The Medicare reform bill passed in 2003 allocated $1 billion to reimburse states for federally mandated ER care given to illegals--about $45 million a year of that to come to Arizona over four years. But even that, some hospital staffers say, is little more than a Band-Aid on a huge problem.

Ruth Kish, director of patient care services at Copper Queen, expects that under the repayment formula, her hospital will receive only 10 cents of every dollar they spend on illegals. "But every bit helps," says Kish.

(Note: The federal government, in an official capacity, is spending our tax dollars to treat illegal immigrants)

The counties in the above-mentioned study spent an additional $13 million in 2000 on emergency transportation, such as helicopters and ambulances, to pick up illegals injured after sneaking across the line.

But there's another category--Mexicans injured in Mexico who call American ambulances for help. By federal law, they have to respond, which makes Bisbee's Copper Queen the trauma center of choice for Sonora's northern frontier.

The calls come from Naco, Sonora, the town across the line just south of Bisbee, where, in spite of widespread poverty, cell phones are popular, and everybody knows the Americans are bound by law to treat them.

"When we get a call we go, and we don't ask where the person's from," says Earnest. Naco residents needing care go to the port of entry and declare an emergency to American officials. When they're waved through, they're transported to the Copper Queen's ER in Bisbee's ambulance, or they drive themselves in private cars.

But yeah-- they do no harm, and the financial costs are negligible. <rolleyes> Read the rest of the linked article for even more appalling details.


Illegal immigration is a serious financial and ethical problem (estimated cost: $10+ billion/yr, as seen here), and poses a grave security risk for this country. In fact, government inaction in policing our borders and deporting illegals should go to show you just how full of shit they are with the whole "war on terror," since any government truly concerned about the safety of its citizens after 9/11 would have taken much more aggressive action along our borders-- particularly in light of the dozen or so official reports of suspected terrorists sneaking across the border since 9/11. But yeah, this government is really concerned about protecting us from terrorists. <rolleyes> Spare me...



For the record, my thoughts on the illegal immigration issue can be seen in this topic.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

It's not so much that the government is afraid to be called racist, it's much more afraid about cutting off cheap labor to major companies and cutting off Mexico's largest income of money (migrant workers sending money home).

Yeah, I know. Still doesn't mean illegals should pour in from the borders. If I move to lets say Canada, I'd fill out the forms, not just run up there and live. Thats not just being hypothetical. Bush's plan of letting illegals cross to work is a good idea but the bureaucracy isn't there to support such a measure. It'll be abused heavily. I say let it be guarded and if Monfort (meat packing company) doesn't like it, tough. Unless these companies are willing to support these workers like insurance and all that.

its that each party is afraid they will lose the votes and potential votes from hispanics if they crack down on illegal immigration at the southern border.

So what? People here are pissed off that the government is doing nothing. Once again, its special interests vs. the voice of the people. I guess I shouldn't be shocked at that.

First step in Texas declaring it's independence again.

Apparently Arizona and New Mexico are declaring their independence as well.

Does that mean that I should start pulling over speeders on the interstate

You don't pull them over but you can call the police and report it. The minutemen are the middle man for the Border Patrol. They don't catch the people themselves, they call up the Border Patrol. Apparently "Citizen's arrest" means nothing to people, even though its been around since the nation was created.

The point is, its incredibly effective. They can flood themselves into California. They already are tens of billions of dollars in debt. Whats a few more billion? :lol

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

i dont think it's fair that illegal immigrants get all these rights almost for free while my family and i who are LEGAL immigrants and naturalized citizens could wind up getting screwed over this and lumped in the same category.

 

[Loki]

On-topic, I think we can all agree that a citizen watchdog group (or "vigilante group", depending on one's perspective) is not the best way to go about solving this problem. However, when the duplicity of the federal government is so transparent ("hey, let's go prosecute a war thousands of miles away to keep us 'safe', while possibly allowing terrorists with biological and chemical agents to cross our borders with impunity"), their inaction so unyielding, and the costs to our citizens (in the form of higher taxes, health care premiums etc., to say nothing of possible security risks) so easily ascertained, what are people to do? When government has so reneged on its obligation to its citizens in favor of pleasing its corporate benefactors or currying favor with the hispanic voting bloc, what are our options?


I do not necessarily condone these groups, but neither can I condone how our government has handled this situation for the better part of the last two decades-- particularly since 9/11. That's how I see it.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Loki has the right answer. We need to seriously clamp down on the southern border -but- vigilante groups are NOT the way to do it. Expect some serious racial incidents in the near future. Cornyn has it right; hire a much larger border patrol that reports to a better ethical standard.

 

[themadcowtipper]

Loki has the right answer. We need to seriously clamp down on the southern border -but- vigiliante groups are NOT the way to do it. Expect some serious racial incidents in the near future. Cornyn has it right; hire a much larger border patrol that reports to a better ethical standard.

It is never going to happen, like I said in an earlier post the boarder did not just become a problem after 9/11, it has been a problem since the 60's maybe before....

 

[Loki]

Loki has the right answer. We need to seriously clamp down on the southern border -but- vigilante groups are NOT the way to do it. Expect some serious racial incidents in the near future. Cornyn has it right; hire a much larger border patrol that reports to a better ethical standard.

Thing is, the border patrol (and INS) agents we currently have are hamstrung by legal guidelines that actually protect illegal immigrants. In essence, these agents are trying to do their job with the entire federal government aligned against them. State laws in places like NY, Arizona, and California actually prohibit employers, hospitals, governmental agencies (e.g., welfare or SS offices) and public schools from either inquiring as to a person's legal status or-- if their illegal status is known-- reporting them to the INS. How is this sensible? How is this sane? It goes back to the point I made about the duplicity of our goverment at all levels.


It honestly boggles the mind that if a person at, say, a benefit office finds out that a family is here illegally, they can actually be punished (fined, removed from their position etc.) for reporting that to the INS (who won't act on it anyway, as per legal guidelines).


Am I the only person here who finds that fucking disturbing given the stated aims of the INS and the border patrol, and the very definitions of the words "legal" and "illegal"? Really...it drives me mad.

 

[Excess Poo Flakes]

I live in arizona, this is a good thing. If ever there is an incident of abuse or murder or something, then it's a bad thing, but I think too many automatically suspect that a bunch of crazy white power bald guys with lots o' guns are just going down to the border to shoot some mexeecans.

 

[ManaByte]

I live in arizona, this is a good thing. If ever there is an incident of abuse or murder or something, then it's a bad thing, but I think too many automatically suspect that a bunch of crazy white power bald guys with lots o' guns are just going down to the border to shoot some mexeecans.

The funny thing is that the group who did it in AZ actually had a bunch of ex-border patrol agents who left the job for the reasons Loki detailed above.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

On-topic, I think we can all agree that a citizen watchdog group (or "vigilante group", depending on one's perspective) is not the best way to go about solving this problem. However, when the duplicity of the federal government is so transparent ("hey, let's go prosecute a war thousands of miles away to keep us 'safe', while possibly allowing terrorists with biological and chemical agents to cross our borders with impunity"), their inaction so unyielding, and the costs to our citizens (in the form of higher taxes, health care premiums etc., to say nothing of possible security risks) so easily ascertained, what are people to do? When government has so reneged on its obligation to its citizens in favor of pleasing its corporate benefactors or currying favor with the hispanic voting bloc, what are our options?


I do not necessarily condone these groups, but neither can I condone how our government has handled this situation for the better part of the last two decades-- particularly since 9/11. That's how I see it.

the dems or repubs ARE NOT gonna get my vote because they let illegals in the country. matter of fact, they lost my vote.

 

[explodet]

http://www.ga-forum.com/showpost.php?p=1485606

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

...Bunch of stuff I didn't know...

Interesting.
Wasn't aware Cali let illegals get into junk like welfare and all that, that's just outright retarded. I also stand corrected. I'll go to my corner now.

I don't quite accept the 10 billion figure though. If I'm reading that right, it assumes 100% of the amnesty people would be using 100% of the service available, right?

 

[Loki]

I don't quite accept the 10 billion figure though. If I'm reading that right, it assumes 100% of the amnesty people would be using 100% of the service available, right?

The $10B figure had nothing to do with amnesty-- it was the estimated annual cost of illegal immigration right now, even factoring in their contribution to the economy.

The discussion of amnesty, which came later on in that same report, concluded that if illegals were granted amnesty (an idea which is often floated during such discussions), and assuming that they availed themselves of the same level of services as legal immigrants who share their educational and economic circumstances (an entirely reasonable assumption imo), the costs would be on the order of $29B annually, an increase of nearly 200%. Not a decrease as is commonly supposed.


Even if one assumes that they were off by 50% in their calculations (an enormous margin of error), we're still talking about an astronomical increase in costs. It wouldn't be quite as acute a situation if the costs weren't absorbed disproportionately by a few states, where entire sectors of their economy and infrastructure are in danger of insolvency as a result of illegal immigration.

 

[Deg]

They've been very civil so far. When the capture one, they take them to border patrol and let them deal with it.

This is a good thing. If you want in, do it legally.

Ussualy taking the law in your own hands means breaking afew laws. :lol Sounds very shady and no doubt there will haters amongst these people.

 

[bionic77]

I have no problem with controlling the border.

I DO have a problem with people like olimario doing the controlling though. It will end badly.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

The minutemen might actually be screening their volunteers to weed out racists. Nothing like that happened in New Mexico.

A better border patrol is the answer, backed by the military. Vincente Fox will be pissed but fuck him. He's too content on having the Mexican economy be based off of American funds. I wouldn't object to giving them some money to kickstart their economy but putting out media on how to smuggle yourself across the border is wrong, regardless of who does it.

Unfortunately, a better border patrol probably won't exist and the Minutemen will always exist until the government gets their shit together.

 

[NWO]

I think people here are missing the point.

Nobody wants the people of the states to control the border. They want to just raise awareness that there is a problem and that something has to be done about it because Bush is a moron and can't do anything right.

 

[Mashing]

The way I feel about Illegals is that they should have no rights to US civil and commercial services except those that include basic human rights. Any money they make in the US should be seized if they attempt to send it back home (but they can keep the money for themselves to use to gain proper citizenship). After all they are working in US illegaly and, in my assessment, have no legal right to the money. They are in essence stealing. Any company employing illegals should be levied steep fines as well.

 

[Cauliflower of Love]

....

So much for my reading comprehension.
:lol

 

[Lil' Dice]

My mom came here and gained her citizenship through legal means. Should it be too much to ask for these Mexicans to do the same? They get away without paying taxes, and are pretty much leeching off society, all so that we can save a few cents on a pound of strawberries?
This country is quickly going down the shitter.

 

[Escape Goat]

This country is quickly going down the shitter.

Some might say we've been circling the drain for awhile now.

 

[FightyF]

Cornyn has it right; hire a much larger border patrol that reports to a better ethical standard.

The same non-racist ethical standards of larger Police organizations such as the LAPD. Or perhaps the US Army.

Seriously though, I agree, it's an issue and while I disagree with the vigilantism on the part of Minutemen, it's a natural reaction due to the fact that nothing is happening on a federal level.

At the same time, if these Minutemen are SO concerned, and if they have a large base of support...why not use all of that to put pressure on the Whitehouse? They have a lot of attention already...the subject of illegal immigration is being brought to the headlines by these guys...why not propose a solution? I think I know why. These people aren't really interested in a better solution.