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Was Beast Machines a worthy follow-up to Beast Wars?

Beast Machines was not good but is not without merit. There are pieces of it that I like. It chases some bigger ideas, tries new things, and isn't afraid to change the status quo. It gets points for those. (And I love Tankor so it gets points for Tankor) However some artists need an occasional leash to stay grounded.

Beast Wars was very much created on Hasbro's leash with mandates and direction being provided every season. The team had to find very creative ways to tell the stories they wanted to tell while still fitting within Hasbro's guidelines. Many of the more exciting aspects of the show, such as character deaths and evolutions, were the result of finding exciting ways to fulfil Hasbro's orders. New toys dictated plot points. A lot of the time that sort of arrangement strangles a show's creativity, but both sides found a good balance and turned a possible weakness into a strength. Larry and Bob really worked it.

The success of Beast Wars convinced Hasbro to let a team operate more independently but in their infinite wisdom, canceled the show early as an excuse to make a fresher toy line under a new banner. The old guard was gone and the new guys were told to ignore what came before. Sometimes when you leave a bunch of artists in a room without direction they get a little airborne, and the new guys didn't have the same chops. Designs got awkward. The plot was now dictating the toys. Unfortunately the story then went off the deep end and the toy line struggled to keep up and remain relevant to the show it was attached to. Without the toyline forcing roster updates the show felt more stagnant than before and sales were reasonably low for depictions that just didnt match up. If your show about transforming robots stops being about robots or transforming, you dun fucked up somewhere between steps 1 and 2.

Transtech, the cancelled follow-up to Beast Machines, was shaping up to be an improvement from lessons learned. The designs looked like they were trying to reel the aesthetic back in and create something that merged Wars/Machines into something less awkward and almost anime inspired. Actual transformations were coming back. Characters from both the G1 era and Beast era were to return to the newly revived post-BM Cybertron. Alas they decided to go a cheaper direction and started working with japan to import instead. The end.

The moral of the story is that if your show ever starts looking like this, it's time to pump the brakes:
 

Cheerilee

Member
The worst part is that Cyberton as was seemed extremely interesting and they just completely striped all of that. You had the tripedicus council that were still scheming to retake cyberton but ultimately subservient to the maxmials because the autobots won the great war. They agreed with Megatron's goal but did not fucking trust Megatron as far as they could throw him. You had Megatron himself the ever schemer. You have a political body in the maximals that sanctions the predacons for their bullshit with various diplomatic repercussions (the fact these repercussions were diplomatic seemed to make the tripedicus councils blood curl) and then you also have the optimus and his team themselves and how they link into the greater maximal hierachy.

There's fucking seasons worth of interesting plot material for a sequel and they destroyed all of it to make beast machines.

Yup. You have Primal and his crew coast into the future of G1 (all bright and shiny) in an antique Autobot shuttle, deposit Megatron with the welcoming authorites who haul him off to jail, and have the Maximals check in. "What happened to Protoform X?" "Dead." "Good." "What happened to that Dinobot guy?" "...dead." "Good." <Rattrap's fist clenches> "Why does that spider lady register as a dirty Predacon?" <Silverbolt jumps to her defense>

Then the Maximals settle in to try and relax... it's an excuse for unwanted characters to leave the group, new characters to be introduced, alt-modes to be changed... everything Hasbro is looking for in a soft reboot.

Then the Tripredacus Council makes their move. They're not even looking to free Megatron. They don't like him. He's not a factor... for now (at least one season, and then he comes back in a big way). Paradise comes crashing down (it doesn't even have to be a straight-up coup, there are many ways for the new villains of the show to make their move, with a new story to tell). Our heroes jump into action in response. This stuff practically writes itself.
 

blakep267

Member
Absolutely not. I remember being really excited for the show as a kid. I was so disappointed...
Yup. I was ridiculously excited for it but when it aired it just felt weird. I remember watching the first ep and wondering, what's going on. It's so short. None of the old characters are here. It's weird in tone
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
I understand people shitting on Beast Machines, but people in here shitting on Beast Wars too? Fuck that. You just made the 'Enemies List'.
 

AColdDay

Member
I watched G1 Transformers and barely caught a few episodes of Beast Wars but I thought Beast Machines was great. It had this awesome dark tone to it, and the heroes looked totally outgunned and outmatched. I remember the episode where Rattrap almost joins forces with Megatron, and I remember him telling Optimus why and it really resonating with me at the time.

Anyways, I can get why someone who really liked something a certain way could be totally bummed about people making big changes. However, without that baggage, I really enjoyed the show and thought it was something memorable.
 

psyfi

Banned
What's the easiest way to watch BW these days? Is it streamable anywhere? I don't have a way to play discs or else I'd just get the DVD set.
 

Sora_N

Member
will never forgive 'em for what they did to Rhinox.

Basically this. If they made it unrelated to Beast Wars then maybe it would be decent but I watched it only a little as a kid and mostly watched it as an adult a few years ago. I didn't like it much.
 
It's been so long since I've watched it but, it really bothered me. I can't remember what the show was about but I just have a seething resentment for it in my heart. I must have repressed it.
 
As bad as Best Machines was, I'd still rather watch it than the four subsequent anime series.

The first one of those that I managed to make it through and actually enjoy was Cybertron, though I watched the Japanese version Galaxy Force and not the dub. Not nearly on the level as Beast Wars but it was entertaining to watch a giant Starscream duke it out with Primus. He was kinda badass in that series.

I managed to get a Takara Creator Primus for a relatively cheap price a few months back that I was pretty happy about.

will never forgive 'em for what they did to Rhinox.

I actually liked what they did with Rhinox, I think the problem is just that people were hungry for a redemption arc that never came. Tankor's character is basically a follow up to the Beast Wars episode Dark Designs in which he is reprogrammed as a Predacon. In that episode it basically reveals that if Rhinox were not the peace loving flower sniffer he is, he'd be almost unstoppable. I think it's really interesting to take that idea and run with it.
Rhinox never really escaped Tankor. More like his personality got restored but merged with Tankor's. Basically a very similar thing to what happened in Dark Designs but more permanent. In a later comic of questionable canonicity, the spark of Rhinox is restored to life in a new body without any foreign adulterant and he is filled with regret for his actions as Tankor.
 

Varna

Member
Never got a chance to watch it. Beast Wars was awesome and the only thing Transformers related I can handle. No idea where the love for everything else comes from.
 

Lothars

Member
Beast Wars wasn't a worthy follow-up to OG Transformers (G1), so the point is moot in my eyes. Then again, I wouldn't watch G1 again beyond the pilot and the movie, so maybe TF just isn't that worthy of devotion anyway (yes, I've read the recent comics).
Beast wars is easily as good as g1, it is fantastic
 

Mike M

Nick N
Beast wars is easily as good as g1, it is fantastic
G1 is a pretty low bar to clear, it mostly coasts on nostalgia. It's a mid-tier TF show, above Beast Machines, the original RiD, and the Unicron trilogy.

Beast Wars wasn't challenged until Transformers Animated (which, if it weren't for the initially wonky character designs and animation styles, would be duly recognized as the best TF show that it is) and Transformers Prime (also good). Current show is at least a notch below BW. Not egregiously terrible, but definitely aimed at a younger audience and a little weird with the animal-themed Decepticons that were part of the TFPrime Beast Hunter toyline, but utterly absent from the show.
Cybertron was great.

Hot Shot!
Jetfire!
Vector Prime!
Landmine!
Scattorshot!
Optimus Prime!
Transform and roll out!

Also Cyber Keys were fun, dammit.
The toyline was phenomenal, easily my favorite series. Cartoon was really dull and only really stands out in memory for not being so utterly terrible as Armada and Energon
 

kurahador

Member
I was disappointed with Beast Wars coming off G1, but I though Beast Machine was kinds of fun. I love how every episode the good guys always essentially "lose".

The ending is disappointing though.
 
G1 is a pretty low bar to clear, it mostly coasts on nostalgia. It's a mid-tier TF show, above Beast Machines, the original RiD, and the Unicron trilogy.

Beast Wars wasn't challenged until Transformers Animated (which, if it weren't for the initially wonky character designs and animation styles, would be duly recognized as the best TF show that it is)

More people really need to appreciate TF:Animated. That show was better than it gets credit for. Easily in my top 3.
 
Never got a chance to watch it. Beast Wars was awesome and the only thing Transformers related I can handle. No idea where the love for everything else comes from.

That means you've missed arguably the best TF series ever (and in my opinion it's clearly the best) Transformers Prime.

Sad thing is that its sequel series proved that Hasbro isn't as concerned with the pedigree of the TV shows, ad Rid 2016 is a quality dip not unlike Beast Machines (though RiD isn't anywhere as bad or unfaithful to the character archetypes.)
 

Mike M

Nick N
More people really need to appreciate TF:Animated. That show was better than it gets credit for. Easily in my top 3.
My man.

I could wax rhapsodic about the show all day, it shook up the formula nearly as much as Beast Wars. Loved how the Autobots could get wiped by a single Decepticon (who were all murderously competent at their jobs).
 
That means you've missed arguably the best TF series (ever) and in my opinion it's clearly the best) Transformers Prime.

I have never been able to really get into Transformers Prime.

The production value is there, the voice acting is fine, the writing is passable, but it's just dull as hell. Outside of a few key episodes, the entire series was such a bore. Nothing exciting happens and most characters hardly have any personality. Most fight scenes are the same old thing and the plot just never seemed to go anywhere. It felt without purpose and the human characters were dead weight.
If I recall the only portion of that series I was actually into was Predacons Rising, when finally at the conclusion of the series, something interesting happens. And then it's over.

My man.

I could wax rhapsodic about the show all day, it shook up the formula nearly as much as Beast Wars. Loved how the Autobots could get wiped by a single Decepticon (who were all murderously competent at their jobs).

Everyone just had so much personality in Animated. For as much as people gloss over it, you can tell how much of an impression it left on the brand because multiple original characters from the series went on to reappear in the next series and even one of the live action movies. It left a mark. Can't say the same for a lot of the other TF shows.
 
I have never been able to get into Transformers Prime.

The production value is there, the voice acting is fine, the writing is respectable, but it's just dull as hell. Outside of a few key episodes, the entire series was such a bore. Nothing exciting happens. Most fight scenes are the same old thing and the plot just never seemed to go anywhere.

If I recall the only portion of that series I was actually into was Predacons Rising, when finally at the conclusion of the series, something interesting happens.



Everyone just had so much personality in Animated. For as much as people gloss over it, you can tell how much of an impression it left because multiple characters from the series went on to reappear in the next series and even one of the live action movies.

I've had this discussion before. The fence seems to be rigidly placed between Animated and Prime for Transfans. I just could not stand Optimus in Animated, and the how just came off as too goofy for my tastes. Meanwhile Prime was everything I ever wanted in a Transformers show.
 

Toxi

Banned
Animated deserves credit for having one of the best human (well, "human") characters in Transformers with Sari.
 

ash321

Member
Animated deserves credit for having one of the best human (well, "human") characters in Transformers with Sari.
That bar is pretty fucking low tbh.

Like, name a good human character in any Transformers media aside from Sari.

Anyway, If I was going to rate this stuff it would be:

Japanese G1 -> Beast War -> Beast War Neo (Big Convoy is the best Optimus toy ever, anyone who disagree, fight me) - IDW (after Hail Megatron) - BW 2 - Animated - Prime - (2015 ?) RID - US G1 - OG RID - - All the Bayverse.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Hell no.

Series was trash. Uglier designs, worse story, badly written characters and plots, inferior music. The one and only good thing about it was Jetstorm, and most of that was due to the awesome Brian Drummond.
 
I would say it was decent.

By no means "awful" like some fans claim it to be, but yes, definitely a disappointment (whether you judge it as a sequel, or even as a standalone). Machines is a step down from Wars for sure.

That being said, I think it's worth a watch.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
I didn't watch it, but what I know about it makes not want to.

Oddly, the other transformers I liked was a series a lot of people hated for some reason, Transformers the animated series (I still don't understand the hate. As a g1 fan I even liked all the nods they did to g1).

People didn't like how stylized it was (plus those chins) but they warmed up to it later. Megatron in that show was amazing. Shame it was canned early.

By the way, the man who told the writers to disregard all previous continuity? Dan DiDio, one of the men fucking up DC Comics for the past decade or so.

If only Superboy Prime could rid us of his evil.

Just to elaborate on it a bit (okay, a lot, I sometimes get very wordy)...

Great read

I have never been able to really get into Transformers Prime.

The production value is there, the voice acting is fine, the writing is passable, but it's just dull as hell.

That's a good way to describe Prime. While I have a more positive outlook on the show I agree that it feels rather dull at times.
 

Mike M

Nick N
Armada >>> Beast Wars >>> Original
Boo this man.

Armada was objectively trash. The best that can be said about any episode is "Well at least the art wasn't too far off-model and there was only one instance of a character having the wrong voice or using the wrong name."

Like, literally every episode has glaring errors in the dubbing and animation..
 

Cheerilee

Member
I've had this discussion before. The fence seems to be rigidly placed between Animated and Prime for Transfans. I just could not stand Optimus in Animated, and the how just came off as too goofy for my tastes. Meanwhile Prime was everything I ever wanted in a Transformers show.

I thought Animated and Prime were both great shows.

Animated had a sort of cartoony lightheartedness to it, but it wasn't afraid to take the gloves off for stuff like Bumblebee vs Wasp, or Ratchet's history with Arcee (voiced by G1's Susan Blu, no less), or how shockingly they killed
Blurr
. I think they might have even killed
Hot Rod
. There was also the stuff they did with Elita One. And Omega Supreme. The show really wasn't afraid to get rough with beloved characters. Optimus Prime being an entirely different sort of character worked for me, I think because the voice was so different (David Kaye, the voice of Megatron from Beast Wars, playing a fresh-out-of-college laborer Optimus Prime, it's so mixed up you just have to roll with it). I think I just considered Animated's Optimus Prime to be something between Optimus Prime and Orion Pax. And speaking of voices, I love that they got Weird Al Yankovic to play Wreck Gar.

I think Transformers Prime had some structural weakness where it's like... "This is the new story theme that we are obviously running with for this season" ... but damn if it wasn't a fun ride. And it's not hollow trash like Bayformers, everything has weight and emotion, characters are well developed and they have personality and story arcs... and it just leads to awesome stuff like this: Arcee vs Soundwave. Soundwave isn't even one of Arcee's regular enemies, her most obvious one would be Airachnid, who Megatron interrupts at the beginning of this clip, not to mention what goes down between Arcee and Starscream.

Just to mention, Starscream is what first sold me on Transformers Animated. I had initially been uninterested, and then I randomly saw one of his better episodes and said "Okay, I need to give this show a chance." And he's just as brilliant in Transformers Prime. It's all good. Except Beast Machines. And Bayformers. And maybe the Unicron Trilogy (I've never bothered to watch it). That first RID anime is inoffensive trash.
 

Bad_Boy

time to take my meds
beast wars had some pretty bad designs too. but it was that reboot era where that shit was just acceptable.

i remember watching it before school every day. good times
 

Mike M

Nick N
Starscream is TFPrime's best character. Love the episode where he and Knock Out are trying to cover for the fact they accidentally unleashed a zombie plague.
 

Crocodile

Member
I had no idea Beast Machines writers were specifically told to ignore the events of Beast Wars and not familiarize themselves with the material. No wonder some of the plot lines and characterizations made no fucking sense or were awful in Beast Machines >_<
 

Merc_

Member
Fuck no.

Beast Machines is straight up garbage. What they did to the characters personalities in that show was criminal.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I only remember being super hyped for it before the first episode aired and then completely not caring about seeing any more after the first or second episode.

I'm kinda curious to revisit it just to remember why I felt like that.

On the other hand I will always love Beast Wars and that primitive 3D CG.
 

Ban Puncher

Member
Beast Wars still has one of the absolute best season finales of any animated series ever made,

Megatron in the Ark

BW has to ride G1's coattails for it's best episodes?

NrfHsWz.gif
 
Couldn't get past the new designs myself, I never even watched the first ep after I saw the trailer. I did watch it a long time after the fact and...meh.
300px-Rattrap-S1.jpg
rattrap3.jpg

1383627-cheetor.jpg
300px-Revelations2_Cheetor_looks_wary.jpg
Yep. Rattrap was my favourite character in the show and they fucking nuked him in Beast Machines.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
Come on guys it's Ban Puncher. His whole point is to post funny hot takes using gifs and images with maybe a few words haphazardly stringed together.
Dude can be funny at times but I wouldn't count on him to provide a good argument to anything.
 
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