Makes you wonder about all those chassis talk doesn't it.
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Was Beast Machines a worthy follow-up to Beast Wars?
- Thread starter Uzumaki Goku
- Start date
Makes you wonder about all those chassis talk doesn't it.
Primus and Unicron were once extra-dimensional beings, battling each other on some unfathomable plane of existence. A defeated Primus retreated into the normal universe, taking the corporeal form of a robot planet, and before resting for eons he seeded his surface with the beginnings of Cybertronian life. (Unicron chased Primus into the universe, and knowing that Primus became a planet, Unicron became "a planet that eats other planets".)
But Cybertronian life doesn't evolve the way life as we know it evolves. Cybertronian evolution is machines building machines.
The Quintessons may have been Cybertronian, or they may not have. They may have created the Transformers, as they themselves were created by some previous form of Cybertronian life, or they may have been a spacefaring race of aliens that discovered Cybertron and decided to exploit it, merely interfering with Cybetronian evolution.
Nobody cares about the Quintessons. They were lame and now they're gone. The Transformers define Cybertron now. They even did Primus a solid and kicked Unicron's ass while Primus slept (although Primus left them the weapon which they used to do it). Primus is going to wake up some day and the Transformers are going to be all "Hey everybody, it's Primus! He's awake! Good morning. We got you a present. It's Unicron's head on a stake. He makes a cool new moon for you, doesn't he?" And Primus is going to think "Cats. Why do they proudly leave disgusting presents for you in your doorway?"
Frozenprince
Banned
The rule is "never let Japan have full creative control"
Monocle
Member
Fuck no, are you kidding? Hideous character designs, and the writing was far inferior to Beast Wars. Not a single storyline was anywhere close to BW at its best.
And the characterization, ugh. BM took great characters from BW and twisted them all up, scouring them of any charm and appeal. Turning Optimus into some weird mystic and Megatron into a maniacal recluse? Terrible terrible terrible.
And the ending
So disappointing.
Bad style, bad story, bad writing, bad characters. Beast Machines is a disgrace.
Oh and most of the toys were far inferior to the Beast Wars and Transmetals lines too.
And the characterization, ugh. BM took great characters from BW and twisted them all up, scouring them of any charm and appeal. Turning Optimus into some weird mystic and Megatron into a maniacal recluse? Terrible terrible terrible.
And the ending
where Cybertron become a hideous techo-organic abomination.
Bad style, bad story, bad writing, bad characters. Beast Machines is a disgrace.
Oh and most of the toys were far inferior to the Beast Wars and Transmetals lines too.
Uzumaki Goku
Junior Member
That's pretty good actually.
Even as a kid I was left unimpressed by the glacial pacing (RatTrap doesn't transform until halfway through the first season) and the art direction was terrible; say what you want about Beast Wars, it had a much stronger art direction and far better storytelling. I stopped watching after Optimus used some poorly explained power to destroy Megatron that ended up destroying his own hand...or something, it's been well over a decade since I saw the show and I have no intention of rewatching it or the occasional odd visual i'd see flipping through channels (I think there was a lady plant Transformer who was romantically affiliated with Ratrap of all people?).
Also, I don't recall Megatron ever saying "Yeeeessss" once.
Off-topic, but I would be down for a Beast Wars: Remastered release with improved visuals.
Also, I don't recall Megatron ever saying "Yeeeessss" once.
Off-topic, but I would be down for a Beast Wars: Remastered release with improved visuals.
Almost as groanworthy as when Optimus Primal said the Ark was made with the long lost technology called die-cast construction
exmachina64
Banned
Fuck no, if some company is going to remake Beast Wars, they need to drastically improve the plot.
Monocle
Member
BW has some fantastic storylines scattered amid middling stories and filler. The characters' personalities really elevate the whole thing. It's good enough to work as a remaster without substantial rewrites, unlike Beast Machines.
redmetal86
Member
On that note, it drove me crazy that I spent three seasons watching the characters evolve into special new forms unlike anything on Cybertron that blurred the lines between robot and animal, then the first episode of Beast Machines reset them back to square one into standard forms that anyone on Cybertron could achieve, but then continued forward on the exact same technorganic path anyway.
Like, on the below image, it would make sense plot-wise for them to go 1>2>3>4, right? The whole big idea of Beast Machines was merging organic and machine, which is what Beast Wars was already well on its way to doing. All they had to do was keep going.
Instead they went 1>2>3>1>4.
To put it in simpler terms it's like saying man's evolution went something like Fish>Land Mammal>Primate>Fish>Human.
Rookie > Champion > Ultimate > Rookie> Warp Digivolve >>>>> Mega
We're talking about Beast Wars right?
What, didn't you like the comment Rat trap once made about a club to Cheetor. He certainly mentioned their nice chassis's in there.
Fancyarcher
Member
Nah. It had some cool ideas, but it was severely toned-down (thanks Fox), and I was not a a fan of the character redesigns. What they did to Rat-Trap in particular was a bit unforgivable.
redmetal86
Member
But what about Primacron? And Tornedron? How do they fit into all of this?
exmachina64
Banned
The original assets are probably lost. Even if they weren't, you can't just plug them into Unity.
Yeah, I tried to watch a few years ago and I couldn't deal with the filler episodes. It was a kids' show, remember.
Nothing1016
Member
Beast machines was hot trash. The game Transformers: Beast Wars Transmetals was also a piece of trash. Just remembered that my parents paid good money for that game when I was a kid.
*shrug*
Primacron is the character said in season 3 of G1 to have created Unicron, and Tornedron was his next, less-memorable attempt.
It's possible that the Cybertronian creation myth of Primus and Unicron is all a lie (or based on partial truth). Or maybe Primacron was merely the means by which Unicron was able to enter the universe (Primacron made Unicron, but Unicron made him do it). Maybe Unicron can't die and Tornedron was a reincarnation of Unicron. Maybe Tornedron was a cheap knock-off.
Or one could always fall back on different versions being different continuities (the G1 comics and cartoon were already different continuities, and Beast Wars could be the future of both, or neither). And then there's the ability to deny and dismiss particular information (I don't care what anyone says, Beast Machines never happened). Or one could just accept things as being flawed.
NeOak
Member
Didn't they kill off Tigerhawk solely because they didn't think there would be a toy line of him (which later Hasbro changed their mind and did anyway?)
No.
I watched Beast Machines a few years back for the first time and read up on the strange situation regarding the creation of the show. As a kids show, its pretty damn dark. I still don't understand how this was geared towards children. Character deaths/betrayals, different tone regarding characters and a plot that was even hard to follow for adults. But the biggest problem for me was the plotpoint to return Cybertron to its organic state. What? Blegh.
- There is one redeeming quality for this show and thats how like Beast Wars, they let Cheetor grow over time. At the beginning of Beast Wars Cheetor is a dumb kid, but as the serie progresses he turns into a teenager, to a moody young adult and becomes one of the more important members of Primal's team. In Beast Machines he assumes the role of second in command and even questions Primal when he feels its needed. He would never question Optimus in the original series, but in Beast Machines he openly discusses his dismay after another rant of Primal and the Oracle. The ending of the series makes sense with Cheetor being a responsible leader.
- Well, the ending was fun too. "Its not fair. Waspinator never gets what Waspinator wants".
- Allthough, how did Waspinator get to Cybertron? Still bugs me out.
- I'm still pissed about the character assassination in regards to Rhinox. It was obvious that the Vehicons were the missing Maximals and sure Rhinox was evil once in an episode of Beast Wars, but the complete 180 was bizarre. Especially when in the end, in their final conversation Rhinox regrets his actions as Tankor.
- Silverbolt being this brooding loner made no sense either. I mean, he was like the epitome of a spirited guy.
- I also hate what they did to Rattrap. While still being this sarcastic little bastard, him getting some kind of inferiority complex because he couldn't completely transform didn't fit the character at all. The same character from Beast Wars would have slapped him. Hell, Dinobot would have laughed in his face and push him to the max.
- Optimus becoming all guru like didn't really fit his character at all. Especially later in the series where he becomes unstable and unable to lead the Maximals. Him being so dependant of the Oracle was so strange to see: in Beast Wars he always took the choice he deemed right and in most cases it worked out.
- Finally Megatron... David Kaye was amazing though: but Megatron never had that little bit extra he had during Beast Wars. He's just evil and has a huge fucking crudge against organic lifeforms. His character would never use this motivation in Beast Wars to get what he wants.
Oh well. Strange series.
I watched Beast Machines a few years back for the first time and read up on the strange situation regarding the creation of the show. As a kids show, its pretty damn dark. I still don't understand how this was geared towards children. Character deaths/betrayals, different tone regarding characters and a plot that was even hard to follow for adults. But the biggest problem for me was the plotpoint to return Cybertron to its organic state. What? Blegh.
- There is one redeeming quality for this show and thats how like Beast Wars, they let Cheetor grow over time. At the beginning of Beast Wars Cheetor is a dumb kid, but as the serie progresses he turns into a teenager, to a moody young adult and becomes one of the more important members of Primal's team. In Beast Machines he assumes the role of second in command and even questions Primal when he feels its needed. He would never question Optimus in the original series, but in Beast Machines he openly discusses his dismay after another rant of Primal and the Oracle. The ending of the series makes sense with Cheetor being a responsible leader.
- Well, the ending was fun too. "Its not fair. Waspinator never gets what Waspinator wants".
- Allthough, how did Waspinator get to Cybertron? Still bugs me out.
- I'm still pissed about the character assassination in regards to Rhinox. It was obvious that the Vehicons were the missing Maximals and sure Rhinox was evil once in an episode of Beast Wars, but the complete 180 was bizarre. Especially when in the end, in their final conversation Rhinox regrets his actions as Tankor.
- Silverbolt being this brooding loner made no sense either. I mean, he was like the epitome of a spirited guy.
- I also hate what they did to Rattrap. While still being this sarcastic little bastard, him getting some kind of inferiority complex because he couldn't completely transform didn't fit the character at all. The same character from Beast Wars would have slapped him. Hell, Dinobot would have laughed in his face and push him to the max.
- Optimus becoming all guru like didn't really fit his character at all. Especially later in the series where he becomes unstable and unable to lead the Maximals. Him being so dependant of the Oracle was so strange to see: in Beast Wars he always took the choice he deemed right and in most cases it worked out.
- Finally Megatron... David Kaye was amazing though: but Megatron never had that little bit extra he had during Beast Wars. He's just evil and has a huge fucking crudge against organic lifeforms. His character would never use this motivation in Beast Wars to get what he wants.
Oh well. Strange series.
CloudyTuba
Member
He flew. And since Earth is so far away from Cybertron, it took a long looooong time. By the time he finally made it back, enough time had passed that he caught up with Megatron right around the time of his takeover. He was given longevity by this brief encounter with Starscream.
I read this a longass time ago and it made me laugh so I'm sticking with it.
QuantumZebra
Member
Truth
That show was deeper than it had any right to be
And I will not fucking accept slander of G1 Transformers in any form. You all have been warned.
I'm pretty sure "He flew back, and it took millions of years" is the canonical explanation from the writers. Don't think Starscream's immortal spark necessarily factors into it, as we've seen that Cybertronians can pretty much live until something kills them.
Waspinator is determined
CloudyTuba
Member
I remembered it as being the explanation from the writers also but I couldn't quickly find a source on that so I didn't want to be making claims I wasn't certain of. However yes, that's how I remember it too.
Transformers don't necessarily die of old age but they do normally run out of energon.
Waspinator's shtick is shrugging off fatal injuries. He's basically immortal, making the Waspinator/Starscream pairing perfect.
Uzumaki Goku
Junior Member
I like to pretend they never existed
Hasbro pretty much does. All incarnations go with the comic origin.
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