Was the SNES era the peak of Nintendo development?

I think the SNES is Nintendo's weakest generation. It had good games, but they were just SNES sequels to their NES game (in a similar way, GameCube was the N64 part 2, Wii U was Wii part 2, GBA was GB pat 2, 3DS was DS part 2). I think the NES, N64, Wii , GB, and DS eras were really the most defining for Nintendo (jury is still out on Switch, but lot of retreading Wii U thus far).

For my money, N64 was peak Nintendo. Some of the greatest games of all time, where sequels were all reimagined in new, unique ways. Mario 64, Ocarina of time, Smash Bros, Mario Kart 64, Wave Race 64, 1080, F-Zero X, Majora's Mask, Pilot Wings 64, Pokémon Stadium, Pokémon Snap - pretty much the invention of modern Nintendo right there.
 
I'm reading through this thread and feel sad that people seem to have forgotten Nintendo's great Game Boy Advance output. Yes, there were too many SNES ports replacing new games in the case of Mario, Donkey Kong Country and Zelda (at first), but while also creating Gamecube games, Nintendo was putting out a solid lineup of GBA games throughout the system's relatively short lifespan...

Zelda: Minish Cap, Metroid Fusion & Zero Mission, Mario & Luigi, Kirby: Nightmare in Dreamland, Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire, Advance Wars, Golden Sun, Wario Ware and the vastly underloved Drill Dozer plus strong 3rd part support from Konami, Sega, Capcom and Square all happened from 2001 through 2005.
 
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While I want to agree, I was a kid during the SNES days and thus am heavily biased.

Just looking at my Switch library the other day and I already have 50+ games for it. I'm pretty sure at this point into my SNES ownership I didn't have that many games.
 
John Lee Packard said:
I would say the absolute golden age of Nintendo was from Super Mario Bros 3 to Wind Waker.
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Strongly agree. It's also easy to spot the progression of ideas spanning those games. I recall reading that the idea for Super Mario Galaxy was actually had during the Super Nintendo era when Mario 64 was, more or less, conceived. I feel like many of these games are actually the realization of ideas they wanted to implement but couldn't due to hardware limitations (ie. Super Mario 64 started on SNES but needed N64 hardware to be fully realized, the water in Mario Sunshine couldn't be done on N64, the object orbiting physics in Galaxy were either technically challenging or just didn't fit in Mario Sunshine -- all of these ideas were born around the same time though).

Peak Nintendo, at least in my mind, has always been pushing new ideas ("gimmicks") up against technical limitations. Looking back at SMB3, we're seeing so many of their ideas that just weren't possible on base NES hardware. It was like they were told "OK, now you can scroll the screen diagonally." and they said, "We can make Mario fly! We can make him ride platforms like on a roller coaster! We can make Mario explore watery depths!" They're at their best when they're given new possibilities to explore, for sure.
 
John Lee Packard said:
As great as Super Mario Odyssey and Breath of The Wild were, you can't help but wonder what they'd have been like on hardware on par with the PS4 and Xbox One.
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Exactly. I enjoyed Zelda BotW for what it is, but it would have been great to have a more elaborated world, better textures etc...
 
#Phonepunk# said:
While I want to agree, I was a kid during the SNES days and thus am heavily biased.

Just looking at my Switch library the other day and I already have 50+ games for it. I'm pretty sure at this point into my SNES ownership I didn't have that many games.
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points to consider:

1. age and financial status - youre an adult responsible for making and managing large sums of money and feeding the addiction. as a kid youre at your guardians mercy.

2. I'm not sure how many 60$ switch games you have, but a comparison between that amount to the full priced snes games you had would be a more fair viewpoint.

3. see #1.
 
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Sqorin Hammerfarf said:
I think the SNES is Nintendo's weakest generation. It had good games, but they were just SNES sequels to their NES game (in a similar way, GameCube was the N64 part 2, Wii U was Wii part 2, GBA was GB pat 2, 3DS was DS part 2). I think the NES, N64, Wii , GB, and DS eras were really the most defining for Nintendo (jury is still out on Switch, but lot of retreading Wii U thus far).

For my money, N64 was peak Nintendo. Some of the greatest games of all time, where sequels were all reimagined in new, unique ways. Mario 64, Ocarina of time, Smash Bros, Mario Kart 64, Wave Race 64, 1080, F-Zero X, Majora's Mask, Pilot Wings 64, Pokémon Stadium, Pokémon Snap - pretty much the invention of modern Nintendo right there.
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Contrarian take IMO. N64/PS1 was the 2600 era for 3d. F-Zero X, WR64, Majora's Mask and Paper Mario among others still hold up, but a lot of the others don't.
 
What? ... I mean SNES is some of the best output... but I wouldnt call it PEAK of nintendo.
Theres plenty of games or IP that were better later... like Fzero for example... mario galaxy... I mean ...
 
cireza said:
Exactly. I enjoyed Zelda BotW for what it is, but it would have been great to have a more elaborated world, better textures etc...
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For the most BotW looked pretty good, but there were definitely some meh textures here and there, spruced up a little with some better textures and an overall sharper look, it really would have been stunning looking.

As for SMO, I don't really have any complaints about it's graphics, it looked great, but it's a question of scale, imagine if every level was at least twice the size.

ThaPhantom said:
Gamecube is still my favorite Nintendo console.
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It's by far the most underrated of Nitendo's consoles, I thought it was brilliant at the time but it just never got the respect it deserved, though people have thankfully come around to it more in recent years.
 
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More than anything the Super Nintendo was the first and only time you had Nintendo and Sony working together successfully for the one and only time, when you had Ken Kutaragi and Shigeru Miamoto being KEY players behind the success of a console in some respects...It was the beginning of Sony getting into the hardware scene...and within 2 years of the SNES release...the first blocks of what would end up knocking Nintendo of their perch into the 90s were put in place....the Nintendo Playstation becoming the SONY PLAYSTATION !!!
 
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RAIDEN1 said:
More than anything the Super Nintendo was the first and only time you had Nintendo and Sony working together successfully for the one and only time, when you had Ken Kutaragi and Shigeru Miamoto being KEY players behind the success of a console in some respects...It was the beginning of Sony getting into the hardware scene...and within 2 years of the SNES release...the first blocks of what would end up knocking Nintendo of their perch into the 90s were put in place....the Nintendo Playstation becoming the SONY PLAYSTATION !!!
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How different would the gaming world be today if the N64 wound up being a disc based collaboration between Sony and Nintendo?
 
John Lee Packard said:
How different would the gaming world be today if the N64 wound up being a disc based collaboration between Sony and Nintendo?
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True...not only that but how different would it be if Sega DID take up the N64 tech prior to Nintendo getting it, we may have had a very different Saturn story....
 
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To me the Snes period was the peak of Nintendos existence. Everything has been said why this was the case already. You had all IPs with great games present. Third partys were also aware what games the consumer want and what they can do with their IPs.

I actually don't see this with the switch right now. Some Major IPs are still not here. Starfox, Fzero, Metroid, Mario rpg, earthbound ... Also third partys are not as powerful these days as back then. Castlevania? Contra? All the jrpgs? Capcom games? I don't have nostalgic Googles on, I primary play old games and I'm also willing to drop big money for used old games to play them and own them.

This Era of games was special and most of them are still very fun to play if not even more entertaining than today's iteration of IPs. I play rather super Mario World instead of Mario odyssey for example.
 
I'm looking at my Switch collection and thinking we are currently living through peak Nintendo. SNES was great, as was the GC, but after Wii and Wii U, they've really turned it around. BOTW, Odyssey and Splatoon 2 are some of the best games I've ever played.
 
If you mean first-party no.

Nostalgia aside, the SNES 1st-party entries were not extradonary outside a few exceptions, games like SMW where not a big deviation from SMB3 and even Nintendo admitted that, Star Fox depended mostly on the 3d novelty, F-zero 1 controls like garbage and depended on the novelty of Mode 7, Kirby, Pilot Wings another novelty dependent game.

The best games involving Nintendo IPS on the SNES were made by companies that weren't Nintendo.

At least they tried on the GameCube, even if it didn't work out to well.
 
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Sqorin Hammerfarf said:
I think the SNES is Nintendo's weakest generation. It had good games, but they were just SNES sequels to their NES game (in a similar way, GameCube was the N64 part 2, Wii U was Wii part 2, GBA was GB pat 2, 3DS was DS part 2). I think the NES, N64, Wii , GB, and DS eras were really the most defining for Nintendo (jury is still out on Switch, but lot of retreading Wii U thus far).

For my money, N64 was peak Nintendo. Some of the greatest games of all time, where sequels were all reimagined in new, unique ways. Mario 64, Ocarina of time, Smash Bros, Mario Kart 64, Wave Race 64, 1080, F-Zero X, Majora's Mask, Pilot Wings 64, Pokémon Stadium, Pokémon Snap - pretty much the invention of modern Nintendo right there.
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I think this is an inspired contrarian take.

My first reaction was - "N64? The console that was badged 'Project Reality', but actually could only do low poly and/or foggy worlds? The console with a small library with probably the worst third party games besides Virtual Boy?".

But consisering the argument further, it does have truth in it. Nintendo created genre defining mechanics in more games than one. It estblished the ways many franchises work in 3D. It was a truly creative time for them, even if their ideas were realised on a flawed platform.

In that sense, I feel the DS/Wii era was similarly productive and creative for them.

The amount of fresh gameplay ideas coming out of DS - from both Nintendo and third parties - was truly inspiring : Steel Diver (originally a DS unveiling demo), Wario Ware Touched, Super Mario 64 mini games, Ossu Takae Ouendan, Meteos, Nintendogs, Elektroplankton, Another Code, Professor Layton, Dr Kawashima's Brain Training, Daikasso! Band Brothers, Metroid Prime Hunters, Zoo Keeper, Feel the Magic... it really felt like the cambrian explosion of game play mechanics innovations at the time. While many if these mechanics proved gimmicky and didn't become genre defining innovations, many of these ideas can be traced to mobile games today.

Wii promised initially similar potential, which is why the controller trailer, without showing any gameplay, blew up to make Wii the biggest Nintendo thing ever. Regrettably, due to hardware shortcomings of the Wiimote, most of that potential was never realised satisfactorily, so Wii had little lasting impact in gameplay ideas.

So, if the criteria is "innovation", not "polish", I would say it's a toss up between N64 era and Wii/DS era.

Personally, Switch is peak Nintendo for me. It's almost like Nintendo telling me "man, thanks for being a fan, here's the console you've always wanted from us". The amount of great games I have played on Switch in less than two years is absurd, both first and third party. And the hybdrid concept of home & away has me allowed to really play them all, while I have missed them first time around. Zelda BotW, Mario Kart 8, ARMS, Splatoon 2 + Octo explansion, Super Mario Odyssey, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, Xenoblade 2 + Torna, Octopath Traveller, Mario + Rabbids, Hollow Knight, Super Meat Boy, Super Smash Bros Ultimate, Bayonetta 2, New Super Mario Bros Deluxe, Captain Toad, Hyrule Warriors., Pokemon Lets Go, Super Mario Party, Nintendo Labo, Kirby, Sushi Striker...

Switch is peak Nintendo in polished, fully realised game play, home and away.
 
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I say 100% that the N64 was. The jump to 3D killed everyone back then. But Nintendo did it successfully with Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, Kirby, Yoshi, Star Fox. They invented Smash Bros, paper mario, Mario tennis and golf. Probably alot I'm forgetting too
 
Sqorin Hammerfarf said:
I think the SNES is Nintendo's weakest generation. It had good games, but they were just SNES sequels to their NES game (in a similar way, GameCube was the N64 part 2, Wii U was Wii part 2, GBA was GB pat 2, 3DS was DS part 2). I think the NES, N64, Wii , GB, and DS eras were really the most defining for Nintendo (jury is still out on Switch, but lot of retreading Wii U thus far).

For my money, N64 was peak Nintendo. Some of the greatest games of all time, where sequels were all reimagined in new, unique ways. Mario 64, Ocarina of time, Smash Bros, Mario Kart 64, Wave Race 64, 1080, F-Zero X, Majora's Mask, Pilot Wings 64, Pokémon Stadium, Pokémon Snap - pretty much the invention of modern Nintendo right there.
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I don't know about this man... Kirby aside (Adventure and Super Star are pretty evenly matched) everything got upgraded to insane levels with it's SNES sequels. Link to the past crystalized the Zelda formula and is a big step forward compared to 1 and 2, Super Metroid was several orders of magnitude better than any of it's preceding games, Earthbound is also an insane jump in quality compared to Mother 1, Super Punch Out was a much better adaptation of the original arcade release's feel, the SF Fire Emblem games are still incredible genre peaks to this day where as the NES ones are just footnotes and of course there's the Mario games... world isn't a massive step forward but Yoshi's Island represents the first true departure for the series! Also, we witnessed the birth of Mario Kart, F-Zero, Starfox, Pilot Wings, Mario RPGs, Donkey Kong Countr and Panel de Pon!
I'm a huge 1080 and Wave Race fan but Smash is pretty much the only Nintendo staple the N64 was really responsible for! Of course, OoT and Mario 64 are still the blueprints every modern game in their respective genres is judged by but even then you can't downplay the SNES that hard!
 
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The SNES did everything the NES did ... but BETTER. Much better. It gave us Super Mario World, Zelda ALttP, Super Metroid, Donkey Kong Country, FFIII, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, Super Castlevania IV.

While Ocarina of Time is my favorite game ever made, I don't think that Nintendo has ever reached the SNES status until now with the Nintendo Switch. The Switch truly is the culmination of everything that is great about Nintendo.

And all the games we have to look forward to. Animal Crossing, Pokemon, and Metroid Prime 4 for starters.
 
I had an SNES and tbh the first party support felt like a little letdown after NES. That got 3 mainline Mario games, SNES really only got one. Only one Zelda as well.

Feel like the past couple of consoles have really stepped up the game. Switch is going to have multiple Zeldas and Marios. I think Nintendo has generally improved over time and 3rd party was more important in SNES days than first
 
Yes, of course it was. It had the best entries in Mario, Mario Kart, F-Zero, Pilotwings, Zelda, DKC and Metroid.
 
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The SNES has maybe the highest amount of great games. It has competition from the Gamecube, Wii, and Wii U though. The N64 would compete but it only has a couple great games for me (OoT and MM). The Switch has Smash 5 but in terms of really good non-port exclusives it honestly doesn't have much else. And the NES games just haven't aged well at all.
 
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Jubenhimer said:
The SNES saw 2D Mario and Zelda at their peak, refining and building on the mechanics introduced by their 8-bit counterparts
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Zelda, yes. Mario? No fucking way. SMW was a rushed-to-market, unambitious sequel, with poor art direction, level design, and absolutely no exciting new mechanics. It was a step down from the previous game in the series, worse in almost every way, when it should have been a generational leap forward.

The mere fact that SMW came off of the highs of SMB3 and Nintendo's near total dominance of the 8 bit era, only to get creamed by Sonic on the market speaks volumes to what a misstep it was. Anything else is revisionist history.

Yes, Nintendo did recover and catch up as the generation went forward. Yoshi's Island might be the best platformer of that gen. But SMW? No way.
 
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As an RPG lover it was the pinnacle of a time when all of the greatest games were compiled on one console.

Speaking for myself, everything with RPG's changed when Squaresoft faded out and Square/Enix? jumped to Sony.

As far as RPG's go I dunno that any lineup will ever approach SNES: FF2, FF3, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Breath of Fire, Breath of Fire 2, Earthbound, Super Mario RPG, Lufia's, Ogre Battles........

That's a very strong RPG lineup that stands up to any console generation.

PS1 had a hell of a run too - Vandal Hearts, FF Games, Suikoden, Persona, Wild Arms, Xenogears (Edit: forgot Xenogears and nearly spat on myself)

To me SNES is the king but a lot of that is based on growing up with these gems.
 
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16 bit graphics I feel are the sweet spot for nostalgia/aging gracefully. That really helps compared to low poly 32 bit stuff. Also, some of the best platformers of all time are on SNES, and arguably the best JRPG roster as well. Nintendo's first party lineup was a lot better back then too, since they were still making new IPs instead of milking the same handful of franchises.

DS was another great system for similar reasons, but I hate playing more than a half hour on handhelds, so I never really bonded with the system that much.
 
I think I just really loved Super Mario World, Yoshi's Island, A Link to the Past, the DKC Trilogy, and Super Mario RPG.

I also probably sunk over 200 hours into Super Mario Kart.
 
SNES is favorable Nintendo system mostly for 3rd parties.
Yes it had excelent Mario, but NES, Wii and Wii U all had 3 good or great Marios, it had legendary Zelda but all other consoles had more Zelda on them, Mario Kart SNES is great, but most others in series are even better, Super Punchout is no where as good as NES or Wii Punchouts, first F-Zero is also kind of forgettable.
It didn't have that large 1st party support in quantity, and many franchises from NES weren't carried over (Kid Icarus, Startropics, Mach Rider, various 1st party sport titles and black box titles, Adventure of Lolo).
 
PassionateGAMER said:
Thank you Jubenhimer. I'm mostly into single player games and therefore the games you mentioned are interesting but wouldn't convince me to buy a new console. I own a Wii U with almost all the good games which means that I already played games like Mario Kart 8, Hyrule Warriors, Tropical Freeze, Bayonette and Captain Toad. Otherwise these titles would probably be worth buying a new console.
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Xenoblade 2
BotW
Octopath Traveler
Odyssey

Those are the games I would buy a Switch for, and in that order. They're some of the, if not the best games this gen. Although the list is not huge, you'll get hundreds of hours of gameplay out of those games, so by the time you're done, you'll have those other games that come out later this year in Luigi's Mansion, DQXI S, etc.

It's a decent time to buy a Switch.
 
Nintendo doesn't seem to get better or worse...it's more like they just get more....different.

I mean how do you compare a SNES to a Wii...or a Switch? The Virtual Boy? the DS. By comparison, look at sega or Xbox. The main consoles have a lot more in common. Traditional controls, a box....games. Even Sony falls into that camp, though they've tried to innovate with things like Move (and I guess microsoft with Kinect) but overall these are just add-ons where the innovations with nintendo is baked into the systems themselves.

I suppose you could compare SNES, NES, and Gamecube, but beyond that, Nintendo has been living in a perpetual renaissance when it comes to their iterations of systems.
 
Jubenhimer said:
I've been through the Wii U era. IMO, I feel it was Nintendo at its most creatively bankrupt. That's why I said "The less said about the Wii U, the better". It wasn't just a commercial flop, it was a creative low-point for the company as well. The vast majority of games on the Wii U consists of continuations of Wii series games, many of which didn't really bring anything new to the table, and were seen as Passe by the general public. recycled concepts from the DS and 3DS like Super Mario 3D World, and the occasional moment of creative brilliance in Splatoon or The Wonderful 101. Nintendo also put out far less games on Wii U than any previous platform as well.

Now you might argue that wouldn't the SNES be just a rehash of the NES? Well the difference is that Nintendo's staple series were evolved and refined on the SNES vs the NES. AlttP, Super Metroid, and Mario World were polished, refined, and built on the foundations their NES entries introduced, making them the perfections of their 2D incarnations. Even there, NIntendo still put out plenty of creative ideas like Yoshi's Island, Star Fox, Stunt Racer FX, among others. Wii U by comparison had a comparatively safe 3D Mario game, another worn out NSMB retred, tired Wii Rehashes, and one break out original hit in Splatoon.
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DKTF, 3D World and MK8 were great. NSMBU and Smash 4 were solid too. Plus BotW, WW and TP HD. If the last two were on the Switch they would be treated like brand new games.

Also, I think it's slightly ironic that the Switch which "might dethrone the SNES" has a Wii U game as its most selling game. Just saying.
 
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HyGogg said:
Zelda, yes. Mario? No fucking way. SMW was a rushed-to-market, unambitious sequel, with poor art direction, level design, and absolutely no exciting new mechanics. It was a step down from the previous game in the series, worse in almost every way, when it should have been a generational leap forward.

The mere fact that SMW came off of the highs of SMB3 and Nintendo's near total dominance of the 8 bit era, only to get creamed by Sonic on the market speaks volumes to what a misstep it was. Anything else is revisionist history.

Yes, Nintendo did recover and catch up as the generation went forward. Yoshi's Island might be the best platformer of that gen. But SMW? No way.
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SMW had great art direction, lol.
 
Don't know about peak Nintendo but it was certainly peak Namco! Metal Marines is still the best Namco game I have played.
 
Vader1 said:
SMW had great art direction, lol.
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In the sense that it had like 5 different art directions, maybe. The sprite and tile work is just wildly inconsistent.

That's the least of it's problems though. It's just a boring, play-it-safe sequel that played like an 8-bit game and looked positively antiquated when it came out.
 
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HyGogg said:
In the sense that it had like 5 different art directions, maybe. The sprite and tile work is just wildly inconsistent.

That's the least of it's problems though. It's just a boring, play-it-safe sequel that played like an 8-bit game and looked positively antiquated when it came out.
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Idk, the colors and environments really stand out to me, a lot more so the NES games. The controls are also a big improvement from those. And the world is maybe the most interesting of any Mario game. In terms of creativity, Yoshi made his first appearance in SMW, and he's iconic.
 
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Vader1 said:
Idk, the colors and environments really stand out to me, a lot more so the NES games.
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But look at it next to the SMB3 All-Stars or games that were made after artists understood how to use the expanded pallette better.

You can also see this sort of thing going from FF4 to FF5 and 6. FF4 is clearly people trained on 8 bit jamming more colors in.
 
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I said for years now that Nintendo's best games are all from the past. Their new comes nowhere close. Super Metroid being the top of the heap to this day.
 
It's a case of you had to have been there with the SNES, it truly felt like a quantum leap in gaming (sorry Neo Geo) I still think it feels like a next generation machine, even now.

Mind you there is still a mountain of pap on the machine.
 
Peak publishing, certainly--a lot of the most well-loved SNES games are 3rd party--but for my gaming dollar their first party output has only gotten better since the advent of 3D. I'd rather play almost any 3D Zelda over almost any 2D one. Same goes for just about every franchise they have, with the possible exception of Metroid.
 
HyGogg said:
But look at it next to the SMB3 All-Stars or games that were made after artists understood how to use the expanded pallette better.

You can also see this sort of thing going from FF4 to FF5 and 6. FF4 is clearly people trained on 8 bit jamming more colors in.
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Yeah, I always felt the same way. To be sure, I love all the games (SMW is my favorite Mario personally), but a lot of early SNES games, like FFIV, are very 8-bit with 16 bit flourishes (extra color, a few graphical effects, sound). Honestly, as much as I love Super Mario World, one thing that stood out to me is how awful the Koopalings look.....like let's be honest here, they are weirdly awful looking or awkardly drawn. Stood out to me even back then.

Anyway as for peak development...maybe? I don't know, it's hard to say because I have such a nostalgic attachment to the 16bit SNES and Sega days. I'd say the early efforts on the SNES were pretty reserved, but they definitely went more in on the available power as time went on, if that makes any sense. I'd say even Zelda 3 was a bigger step forward than SMW (again, it's my favorite Mario game) and that didn't come that long afterwards. Later on, you get stuff like Super Metroid, Yoshi's Island, etc. I think 3rd parties were quicker to try their hand at what they could get out of it, and Nintendo played it safe and slow for a little while. That's just my opinion of course and based on what I observed from back then.
 
I wouldn't call it their peak, or atleast not specifically just from their exclusives, many great snes games were second and third party. Though the N64 has my all-time favorite Nintendo games, I can't argue that the Wii has the peak of their creativity. And the peak of their overall library lands between the GBA and DS
 
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