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'We had a wedding ceremony in his bedroom': Michael Jackson accuser reveals he 'married the singer when he was ten!
- Thread starter Voost Kain
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clarky
Gold Member
Remember he wasnt there 90% of the time. LOL
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Neff
Member
The common theory among Jackson's informed defenders seems to be that children were his refuge from an incredibly demanding, artificial, cynical life. The man was aggressively and even violently groomed from a young age for showbusiness, and became the most famous person on the planet in his early twenties, so, no real childhood or carefree teen years to speak of like most have. Also, the majority of people he was dealing with day to day were high stakes entertainment industry professionals (again, from very early in his life) who saw him as someone to envy and/or exploit, or someone they were unable to sincerely connect with due to his own lack of adult cynicism. Being around kids gave him what he was missing- no pressure and no bullshit, and allowed him to be himself. While he was a shrewd guy I think he was either naive in terms of what others would think of him, or he didn't care because his happiness was at stake, and who is going to tell the most famous man in the world that he should get friends his own age? Maybe someone did. Who knows? I'd agree that he didn't do himself any favours, but I don't think he had it in him to hurt someone psychologically for his own selfishness. He just doesn't strike me as that type of guy, and it's just a shame things went the way they did.
clarky
Gold Member
Typical way a predator operates and wants you to think. See Jimmy Salville
Neff
Member
Apart from the shared propensity for philanthropy Jackson is nothing like Savile.
TheInfamousKira
Reseterror Resettler
I'm calm as an ocean breeze, my dude.
The amount of fucks I give about a deceased pop star are miniscule.
People tell me to calm down a lot for how much of a verifiable shit poster I am.
synchronicity
Member
I thought I'd throw in my two cents on this ongoing story. The first thing I will have to say is that I've always enjoyed his music, so I *hope* that he is innocent. I also must say that I make no judgments or conclusions because I have no first-hand experience of whatever did or did not happen. I'm inevitably dependent on hearsay, which is no basis for concrete conclusions imho.
Having said that, I can see the potential for either side being right. Michael's childhood was obviously a mess in many ways, and it's quite possible that he was "broken" in some really significant ways. Who knows what that did to him and how it may have affected the ways in which he interacted with the world/people.
On the others side of the coin, you can never dismiss greed and envy in a situation where someone has so much that many would desire, and that can certainly impact a person as a sort of target.
Again, I make no judgment because the bottom line is that I don't know, but I surely hope he harmed no one in the ways that he has been accused. But if he did, I hope those affected can find peace, comfort and healing.
Having said that, I can see the potential for either side being right. Michael's childhood was obviously a mess in many ways, and it's quite possible that he was "broken" in some really significant ways. Who knows what that did to him and how it may have affected the ways in which he interacted with the world/people.
On the others side of the coin, you can never dismiss greed and envy in a situation where someone has so much that many would desire, and that can certainly impact a person as a sort of target.
Again, I make no judgment because the bottom line is that I don't know, but I surely hope he harmed no one in the ways that he has been accused. But if he did, I hope those affected can find peace, comfort and healing.
clarky
Gold Member
You missed out Pedophilia
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Neff
Member
The great plumes of smoke attributable to theoretical fires which Jackson's detractors seem to love huffing in large quantities are in no way equal to the mountain of hard evidence against Savile.
Try to besmirch Jackson's name all day if you want, but as far as the law is concerned he's an innocent man and you'll just have to accept it.
clarky
Gold Member
OJ was innocent as well, doesnt mean i have to accept it.
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Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
My parents and my children
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Are you this pretentious in real life? Just because the law found him innocent doesn't mean he wasn't a pedo.
Rubbing their hands back at home waiting for pay day?
In OJs case theres piles of evidence that point to the contrary. In MJs case after all the work of Santa Barabara PD and their DA, including sending 70 Sheriffs to raid his home, there was nothing to compel the jury to find him guilty of any of the 14 charges.
MJs mistake was listening to business advisors at the time of the first case to pay it so he can continue with his career and not be stalled by years of legal proceedings.
Here's MJs lawyer talking about how Wade and his entire family testified they never saw anything wrong or inappropriate. (Once again all the court proceedings are in public record and accessible).
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
No one here trusts that their parents or children will not do something that they either don't like or disobey something that they have established. People can pretend that they trust their parents, siblings, and children with everything and that's a complete lie. lol
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
I trust that they won't molest children how about that?
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
People have posted many reasons as to why they don't trust the accuser's story. People have posted their lies, inconsistencies, etc. and you guys have yet to offer a rebuttal.
Why should we even believe their stories if they have lied many times about their stories?
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
You don't trust them in everything, so that means it's not 100%.
I got the answer I wanted.
clarky
Gold Member
This is the rebuttal that you seem to be ignoring. The guy slept alone in bed with multiple children on multiple occasions. This is a fact. Are the families of the accusers lying horrible cunts? Probably, doesn't change the facts. That you don't even find this a little concerning is well, a little concerning to say the least.
Coming back to the trust thing, of course you can't trust anyone 100% of the time on 100% of every situation that may happen in your life don't be so ridiculous. I can say as others have stated I can 100% trust my friends and family members that I have mentioned not to sleep with or touch young boys. None of us can say for certain the same thing about MJ. Which is what we are talking about, not fucking candy you lunatic.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
People, including myself, addressed the fact that Jackson slept in the bed with children. That alone doesn't make a person guilty.
I thought Michael Jackson was guilty for years until I started looking up the facts. Every single lie that's discovered will only make me doubt their stories even more to a point where I cannot believe them.
And we don't need to go back to the trusting thing. You claim to trust them but not 100%.
I asked a simple question, "Why should we even believe their stories if they have lied many times about their stories?" and you can't even answer the question.
You guys are avoiding the fact that they lie and continue to say, "But he slept in the same bed as children" as if that negates every single lie they have told.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
I asked you a simple question as to why I should believe the accusers and their parents, even though they have lied many times.
You can't even answer a simple question. lol.
This is hilarious. It's like you guys know they lied, but you don't have an answer for it.
Sentenza
Member
Yeah, sure thing buddy.
You were a prime and proper rational skeptic, but as more and more kids started to come out complaining that maybe sucking dick wasn't the greatest thing that ever happened in their lives, you totally realized MJ was the real victim here.
That's why you hang to your list of questionable factoids as "evidence" of the innocence of a serial child rapist.
clarky
Gold Member
I answered you multiple times. You don't have to believe them. You just need to acknowledge that regardless of everything else, that sleeping with kids is not ok. Can i get that from you at least?
Polygonal_Sprite
Member
Jackson also had talent although he was imo indeed a child predator.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
You're not answering it. You're dancing over the question as usual.
I asked "if accusers and their parents lied, then why should I believe them" and you directly talked about the parent's lies and not the accusers. This is how badly you want to refrain from saying the accusers have lied.
You continue to waste my time with your evasive answers. lol. If you want me to start answering your questions then start answering mine without jumping around it.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Why are you still arguing with someone who admitted they wouldn't let their kids sleep in the same bed with Michael Jackson? We've won the argument. It must be tough defending a likely pedo as a hobby.
Ash Sparrow
Banned
Its easy to defend someone when all of the facts are on your side and the only counter argument is "he did it" I think he did it"
clarky
Gold Member
I'm stuck on nightshift in the middle of the North sea. Gotta pass the time somehow. Valid point though.Why are you still arguing with someone who admitted they wouldn't let their kids sleep in the same bed with Michael Jackson? We've won the argument. It must be tough defending a likely pedo as a hobby.
No I just asked in what world is it ok for an Adult to share his bed with young boys. Alone. Multiple times. Regardless of what did or did not go on. None of the MJ squad seem to want to answer.
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Ash Sparrow
Banned
To me the question should be why do some feel something sexual has to happen when sharing a bed. Couldnt you Clarky share a bed with a child and nothing occur? It might not be something you approve of. but couldnt it be totally harmless, especially in a giant bed. I prefer to have my bed to myself, but I have 6 cats.
clarky
Gold Member
Of course I could but I'm not a peado, but a) why would want to? and b) put myself in such a position that i could easily be accused of something I didn't do.
I could sleep in the same bed as my next door neighbors wife and do nothing, and she's as fit as a butchers dog. What if she cried rape the next day even though nothing had gone on? I'd be fucked. Just don't put yourself in that position in the first place. Simples.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
I'm not answering your question directly because you refuse to answer mine directly. People who do this are afraid to admit that they're wrong or afraid to show that they lack knowledge on the subject.
You guys have proven to us that you guys don't know anything about this topic other than Jackson said he slept in the same bed with children. You apply this to every single accuser without knowing the facts of the case.
You don't debate with people refusing to answer their questions directly and then ask your own questions expecting them to be answered.
I asked you many times to give me a straight answer without dancing around the topic and you still can't do it. The task is simple, if you want your question answered, answer mine directly without giving an evasive response.
clarky
Gold Member
They DID LIE, both the kids and the adults, how much of it is lies we just don't know. That you choose to believe that all of it is, that upto you. No bother. That ok for you?
"You guys have proven to us that you guys don't know anything about this topic other than Jackson said he slept in the same bed with children." I told you this yesterday, i've seen a few doc's and read a few articles and my main bone of contention is exactly this. Yet you choose to ignore the fact that it is my main issue with the guy.
I'll answer anything directly you ask. Shoot.
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Ash Sparrow
Banned
"At the 2005 trial both the prosecution and the defense agreed that at the time of the Bashir interview there was no other occasion of Gavin sleeping in Jackson’s bedroom than that one occasion in 2000 when other people also slept in the room. In the interview with Bashir Gavin also admitted that he had specifically asked Jackson to be allowed in his bedroom and sleep there with his brother Star:
(Emphasis added.)
Despite of the public outrage and the media frenzy that went into all kind of speculations about Jackson’s relationship with Gavin due to that scene, few paid attention to what Jackson actually meant by “sharing bed” with Gavin. He meant giving up his bed to Gavin and his brother Star while he would sleep on the floor. Never in the interview is it claimed that Jackson and Gavin had slept in the same bed. In actuality, both state that Jackson slept on the floor, and at the 2005 trial Gavin testified that Jackson’s friend and personal assistant, Frank Cascio had also slept in the room that night, as well as Gavin’s brother, Star and Jackson’s two children, Prince and Paris. All the children slept on Jackson’s bed while the two adult men, Jackson and Cascio, slept on the floor [2]. In his 2011 book entitled My Friend Michael: An Ordinary Friendship with an Extraordinary Man, Cascio recalls that it were the Arvizo children who insisted that they wanted to sleep in Jackson’s bedroom despite of the fact that Jackson was reluctant to let them.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
You're doing it again.
"They might have lied"
There's no MIGHT, they DID lie. We know how much because there's undeniable proof that they lied. You have the Leaving Neverland documentary in which they had to edit things out because people were finding out lies.
You don't even want to acknowledge that they lied and that's your problem. "Well, we don't know how much they lied. If you want to believe then that's up to you" that's basically saying "I don't want to call them liars."
This is your 4th time giving me these types of answers. Admit that they lied multiple times which will easily cast doubt so we can move on.
clarky
Gold Member
Fixed that for you. Ok now?You're doing it again.
"They might have lied"
There's no MIGHT, they DID lie. We know how much because there's undeniable proof that they lied. You have the Leaving Neverland documentary in which they had to edit things out because people were finding out lies.
You don't even want to acknowledge that they lied and that's your problem. "Well, we don't know how much they lied. If you want to believe then that's up to you" that's basically saying "I don't want to call them liars."
This is your 4th time giving me these types of answers. Admit that they lied multiple times which will easily cast doubt so we can move on.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
And you want to soften the message by saying, "if you choose to believe them then that's up to you."
You admit that they lied, but still tried to make it seem like it wasn't that bad.
Not true.
There are stories of women sleeping in the same bed or room with their daughter and her friends while they had sleepovers. I've heard many stories like this for years from people on TV, in person, and online and we generally don't think anything of it because they're women. Now, if a man's kids and their friends fell asleep watching TV or playing video games in his room and he decided to sleep on the floor while they slept on the bed, then someone might think he had no intentions of doing anything to those kids. People will say it's still wrong, but let's say these people happened to be in an RV during a road trip. They either have to sleep inside or sleep in the RV
Being "ok" is subjective because there are places around the world where this happens all the time since living situations are very different. You're focused on bedroom + sleeping in the same bedroom/bed as an adult. I wouldn't like it if my kid slept in the same bed alone with a grown man, I would feel different if my kid was with his friends in the same room while the guy sleeping on the other side of the room. Context matters.
The first accuser's father claimed his son was molested in Europe in a hotel room with Michael. Not only were MJ and Jordan (the accuser) staying in that hotel room, his sister and mother were staying there, too. Jodan denied these allegations until he was pressured by his father to make them because he threatened Michael Jackson.
The second accuser slept in the same bedroom as Michael on one occasion when the documentary aired. Jackson was on the floor with his assistant while Gavin, his brother, and two of MJ's kids were sleeping in the bed. Gavin and his brother said he was in bed with Michael after the documentary aired, but Gavin and his brother changed his story multiple times and they both gave different versions of the story. The fact is, MJ barely saw them. BEFORE the documentary aired, Jackson only saw him a handful of times, and he was sold by Martin to put his hand and head on Jackson, which Jackson didn't want to do.
This is why "he slept in the same bed with children so that means he's guilty" doesn't work.
clarky
Gold Member
So guys are saying he never slept alone in bed with kids. Thats all i was asking and i stand corrected if true, like I have said multiple times you clearly know more than me on the subject.
Why didn't you just say so yesterday?
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Difference being normal people befriend adults/parents then their children. Pedo wacko befriended children then became "friends" with the adults/parents. How else was he going to be close to the kids if he didn't buy out the parents?
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
That's not what we're saying.
People have said he slept in the same bed as them, but most of the time he let them sleep on the bed while he either slept on the floor or downstairs in his large bedroom.
You have to realize that each case is different. People think MJ was sleeping in the same bed regularly with Gavin because he said he would share his bed with him. As I said before, Jackson slept on the floor with his assistant while Gavin, his brother, and MJ's two kids slept on the bed. Before the documentary aired, Jackson was barely in contact with Gavin and met him only a few times. After the documentary is when the alleged abuse took place. These claims are disputed because Gavin and his brother changed their stories multiple times. Gavin said MJ showed him a porn magazine, but the magazine in question was printed months after the alleged abuse took place. Jackson wasn't around the Arvizos that often. Gavin's mother said Jackson kept them hostage when it was revealed that Jackson was actually in another country while Gavin's mother was going on shopping sprees with MJ's credit card.
Gavin admitted during the trial that he was upset with MJ because was barely in contact with them and didn't want him and his family around anymore after they become disruptive. He didn't mention molestation when the defense as him the question.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Nope.
What really happened is..
- Jordan Chandler's father pressured his son to make up false allegations against Michael Jackson because he was jealous that Michael was spending time with his wife and child. This is documented and the transcript is available to prove that this is exactly what happened. Chandler once denied the allegations and admitted that his father wanted money.
- Gavin and his family have a history of making up false allegations and trying to scam people. His mother tried to get him to scam Jay Leno and other celebrities. His mother also one a JC Penny lawsuit that was completely bogus. She accused a security guard of assaulting her when in fact it was her own husband.
- Wade Robson made up false allegations because of money trouble and was denied an opportunity to work for MJ's Cirque du Soleil. Lied about trying to sell his book for money until they search his e-mails. In one of these e-mails, his mother admitted to coming up with multiple versions of the story and that she will help pick the best one for him.
- James Safechuck's family was being sued for almost a million dollars less than a month before he came up with his allegations.
- Both Wade and James decided to go public after they couldn't win a civil suit against the MJ estate.
You're making bogus claims and hoping it's true.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
So wacko defenders are going to just ignore this disturbing video? Children don't act like that, lovers do.
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Sentenza
Member
Give a watch to this one.
I'll post just the first clip, then you can follow the playlist if you want.
It really helps putting things in perspective.
Especially about how fucking delusional these groupies posing as "investigators for the truth" can get.
They'll make all sorts of spurious claims about the "untrustworthiness" of every single child involved, about "being in for the money" (as if that alone would be evidence something didn't happen), about minute and irrelevant "incongruences" or about some fictional amount of "evidence" totally absolving the creep from any allegation. They'll even tell deliberate lies, like the good old "The kid's father was caught on the phone admitting he just wanted money" (spoiler: he was actually "caught" just being angry as hell).
And you will never see any of them address the obese pink elephant in the room: that for anyone who wasn't "king of pop" even the most credulous moron on the planet would struggle to justify a fraction of his PUBICLY DOCUMENTED behavior, let alone the morbid details of what was happening in these bedrooms.
They are even willing to openly act as retarded without a hint of shame, as long as they'll be able to pretend they can ignore how some of their objections have been openly addressed in some of the material they are struggling so hard to debunk (i.e. "Why did Wade told something when testifying and then told the opposite years later, UH?" Hello, you fucking tard? He spent half of his screen time in the movie talking specifically about that)
This is blatant lie.
"I actually slept on the floor" is thrown in as an attempted last second save from MJ as the kid just exposed him on camera as a manipulative groomer. And he contradicts himself literally minutes later anyway claiming he shared the bed.
You are a clown and you aren't even trying to hide it anymore.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
I addressed that multiple times in this thread.
This is clear that you guys don't bother reading the facts because they go against your narrative.
Sentenza
Member
Ah, you surely did!
Here's how he addressed: "FUCK THIS KID, HE'S A LIAR THAT JUST WANTED MONEY. HIS FATHER FORCED HIM TO LIE. ALSO, MICHAEL SLEPT ON THE FLOOR THAT NIGHT! EXCEPT WHEN HE SAID HE DIDN'T MINUTES LATER".
There. Molestation allegation completely debunked.
Well, except for their public behavior and all the other weird shit going on around MJ over almost 30 years.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
It's a lie?
Why did Gavin Arvizo say Frank and Michael slept on the floor?
Frank Cascio was there that night and gave his account.
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Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
I missed it so that's normal behavior in your world? I'm referring to the behavior in the video the tightly clutching of the hands, the head on the shoulder? Nothing wrong with a man and teen behaving like people in a relationship? Lol, poor kid was getting his salad tossed he probably thought he was in love. Disgusting actually. No wonder he was so doting toward wacko in that video.
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Ash Sparrow
Banned
Wade Robson and James Safechchuck led to scores of videos of people saying they use to think MJ was guilty, but now they see how the scammers work. The only peace in MJ dying is he personally cant be affected by the endless parasites who fed off his blood. Or brainless morons willing to believe anything. These people have no facts, no court decisions or FBI investigations on their side. They regurgitate the rumors made up.. They do this hoping against hope people will not look into this stuff. They believe *documentarys* where the director said he didnt think it necessary to bring in anyone to refute their stories. Even if you hate MJ there should be something in your brain that registers this not being right. Decades of trashing him and yet he's still one of if not the most popular artists on the planet. Sure all that stress had a part in his death. People literally pulling garbage out of thin air and lazy people eating it up.
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