Ash Sparrow
Banned
I also have no doubt it probably hurt some people bad that MJ was porking Lisa Marie Presley all over Neverland while owning The Beatles catalog and half of the music industry.
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'We had a wedding ceremony in his bedroom': Michael Jackson accuser reveals he 'married the singer when he was ten!
- Thread starter Voost Kain
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It's a lie?
Why did Gavin Arvizo say Frank and Michael slept on the floor?
Frank Cascio was there that night and gave his account.
They guy we're chatting with is not worth our time. Our literal evidence means nothing to him because only his opinion can be right no matter what is presented.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Bashir told Gavin to hold Michael Jackson's hand and place his head on his shoulder. It was Martin Bashir's idea to bring Gavin, a kid Michael barely knew and didn't want to do it, but agreed because he didn't want to make it appear like he didn't care about the kid.
There's documented evidence that Gavin barely saw Michael and he only saw him a few times prior to the documentary.
Jackson slept on the floor with his assistant while Gavin, his brother, and MJ's two children slept on the bed. This is the only time Gavin slept in the same room as Michael.
Gavin said he and his family stayed in guest bedrooms.
I can keep going further but you're going to make excuses.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
I was curious to see how he was going to respond after I pointed out that he lied. As expected, he laugh reacted to the post, and then ignored it. lol
clarky
Gold Member
"Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings."
Whats the crack with this nugget? confirmed bullshit?
Nowt wrong with having porn by your bed but this sounds dodgy as well:
"Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson’s on the same pages".
Whats the crack with this nugget? confirmed bullshit?
Nowt wrong with having porn by your bed but this sounds dodgy as well:
"Jackson had an extensive collection of adult erotic material he kept in a suitcase next to his bed, including S&M bondage photos and a study of naked boys. Forensic experts with experience in the Secret Service found the fingerprints of boys alongside Jackson’s on the same pages".
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Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
So the best course of action for a man who's suspected of being a pedo is to have a teen boy doting on him. Was he that far removed from reality or just that brazen? I have to go with the latter.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
More deflection. Lol. You guys are so immune to facts. Let me know when you're ready to dispute anything.
Ash Sparrow
Banned
I read nothing was found on his computer. I think he had some porn mags of women like 60 years old. Here have a look at this drawing. They bet really badly with this drawing and saying MJ was circumcised when he was not. Maybe the kid just wanted to go home and play Mario. Mushrooms and all but his family needed money and wanted to make films.
clarky
Gold Member
Think thats the wrong drawing? It says about markings on his todger nothing about circumcision , also nothing about his computer, the article i grabbed it from explicitly says s&m stuff and a study about young boys.I read nothing was found on his computer. I think he had some porn mags of women like 60 years old. Here have a look at this drawing. They bet really badly with this drawing and saying MJ was circumcised when he was not. Maybe the kid just wanted to go home and play Mario. Mushrooms and all but his family needed money and wanted to make films.
Has this been proven to be false?
Just having a poke around the internet tonight to learn more about what did or did not go on.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
What am I deflecting? Regardless of whose idea it was in what world is having a teen boy doting and clutching a man's hand a good look? I guess in the same pedo world where having young boys sleep with a man in his bed whose no relation to them.
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Ash Sparrow
Banned
The drawing clearly speaks for itself, its supposed to be a circumcised penis. And I was just stating, if he's some serious pedophile what is the likehood that "The FBI found nothing incriminating on the drives, and the computer history contained no record of accessing or searching for illegal material." Also not to be graphic, but if we took a poll of members with discolorations or marks on the penis. I definitely would be included in the yes I have them section.
clarky
Gold Member
Is this the drawing that's referenced in the quote I gave you though? Because if it is then I can safely throw that one in the trash.
" Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s penis." There are no markings on the drawing you provided.
Also i don't think that not finding anything on his computer can be counted as defense.
Listen rather than just go PEADO!!!! thought id spend some time checking into this more, long night at work. Rather than fact checking myself figured you chaps would already know. Save me some time.
And what about the supposed finger prints on the porn mags has that been addressed?
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Batiman
Banned
The fact is it’s fucked up enough for him to be sleeping with kids that have no relation to him. Whether you believe he’s innocent or not could you agree no man should be around children the way he was? Or should that sort of behaviour be ok? This is assuming he didn’t molest kids. That alone is enough for me personally for me to not want to listen or have anything to do with him. It’s disgusting behaviour all around. Shouldn’t be accepted for him or anyone
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clarky
Gold Member
I tried asking this but your banging your head against a wall.
Ash Sparrow
Banned
As far as I know that is the only supposed drawing of Michael Jacksons Junk.
Supposedly MJs fingerprints were found on a magazine and so were Gavins, but in separate sections. which does not match with Michael Sharing the mags with the boy. The defense said that the Arviso kids broke in and stole the mags from MJ. The defense also feel like Gavins fingerprints may have gotten on the magazine by Tom Sneddon handing the mag to the boy in a session. But this hasn't been proven.
Supposedly MJs fingerprints were found on a magazine and so were Gavins, but in separate sections. which does not match with Michael Sharing the mags with the boy. The defense said that the Arviso kids broke in and stole the mags from MJ. The defense also feel like Gavins fingerprints may have gotten on the magazine by Tom Sneddon handing the mag to the boy in a session. But this hasn't been proven.
Ash Sparrow
Banned
edit
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clarky
Gold Member
Both points could go either way then. Not great, not damming evidence either.
Edit: but the article say the finger prints where found next to each other. Need to check on that.
Edit 2 :
Turns out it was the drawing, Looks like he got 2 out of 3 right and like it says he might have not been able to tell the difference on the circumcised bit. Dodgy if you ask me.
"Jordie had drawn a diagram of the singer’s genitals on a napkin for the police. He wrote, “Michael is circumcised. He has short pubic hair. His testicles are marked with pink and brown marks. Like a cow, not white but pink colour. [sic]” This isn’t strange when one remembers that Jackson suffered from vitiligo, and for some time had been bleaching his skin."
"There was hope the photos would prove Jackson’s innocence or guilt; that they would definitely show whether Jordie had seen Jackson naked or not. But the evidence was inconclusive. Jackson did have short pubic hair as Jordie had said, and his testicles were indeed spotted pink and brown. But Jackson was uncircumcised. Did this mean Jordie was lying? Or did this only mean that Jordie had seen Jackson’s penis erect, and couldn’t tell the difference between circumcised and uncircumcised in that state?"
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
I already explained this in detail.
You keep asking me questions while ignoring the facts that I'm posting in his thread. You guys have a strange habit of ignoring facts that go against your theories just to repeat "but he slept in the bed with them!" over and over again.
You guys don't care about the truth and that's clear so far. Either answer my questions or move along.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
The magazine was dated August 2003, which was months after the Arvizo family left Michael Jackson's house.
The only way his fingerprints could have made it on the magazine is if Tom Sneddon or his people gave it to him without any gloves on.
The funny thing about this is that Gavin Arvizo told Tom Sneddon that was the magazine Michael showed him. When he was cross-examined, Tom Mesereau asked him directly if that was the magazine Jackson showed him and he said, "yes." Tom Mesereau told him it was dated August 2003, months after leaving Neverland, and that's when Gavin Arvizo changed his story again by saying, "Well, I never said it was that exact magazine" even though he said it a few minutes earlier.
Edit: I think it was Star Arvizo.
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PanzerAzel
Member
Because no one is perfect?
If these accusations are legit, these children were groomed. They worshipped this man like a god, looked up to him, relished in his lavishings and attentions, and wanted to initially protect him. Why is it so unreasonable to believe that people can take time to grow, to process events they’ve experienced, and to view them in differing contexts and understandings when they reach an age that is capable of grasping the significance?
Perhaps these accusers’ inconsistencies can be chalked up to simply being in different stages of denial, misunderstandings or acceptance? Why is there absolutely no allowance for human nature in the changing of tunes, but it’s always indicative of some nefarious scheme to deceive?
PanzerAzel
Member
All that understood…….IMO, when you’re an adult, there are certain activities that (while they may be acceptable for children amongst their peers to engage in, because again, they are generally not operating in certain realities that adults do) should never be partaken in with adults.
Adults should NOT be allowed to have sleepovers with children in such a manner as MJ did. Ever, and it’s astonishing to see so many playing apologetics to rationalize such. Sorry MJ, “missing your childhood” is no excuse nor license for that. Innocent or guilty, the man was a fool. He made his bed by flaunting the repudiation of social expectations and constraints in generally accepted conduct respective to child/adult relationships, and he justifiably suffered immense damage to his legacy and repute by having to eventually lie in it.
As he should, innocent or not. I have very, very little sympathy for blatantly obvious acts of stupidity.
Ash Sparrow
Banned
Because they told more lies than just about being groomed. Because Wade was grown and still saying nothing happened, until his book failed and he was turned down for a job to work for Michaels estate. Classic case of being scorned. And then we have a plethora of lies, such as James saying he refused to testify on MJs behalf in 2005, because he recalled he was abused, whereas court documents state he wanted to testify for MJ, but the judge stopped him from doing so. Or Wade making sure to leave out that he dated MJs niece for seven years, because it destroys the grooming narrative of MJ teaching them to hate women and keeping them away from women and for himself, because it was Michael who got Wade and Brandi together. constantly moving timelines to make things convenient. James only saying he was abused after a million dollar lawsuit was placed against him and his family, so he needed money. And then he says his memory of being abused only happened after he hears Wade was abused....wait but this contradicts what you said earlier about knowing you were abused in 2005. And your mother saying she danced after MJ was dead in 2009 because he'd said he 'd been abused. After their lawsuits get tossed their debts began to mount, they have their day in court several times, no one finds them credible they lose lose lose. They lie to say Brett Barnes was molested by Michael, Brett Barnes constantly defends Michael and takes legal action against clowns at HBO. Wade claims he didn't know MJ had an estate LOL, but was mailing the estate in 2011. And on and on. I think you'd have to be a fool to find them credible.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
James Safechuck and Wade Robson told their stories as adults and they lied. There's a reason why the documentary was edited multiple times.
Wade Robson tried to sue Michael Jackson's Estate around 2013 and the Estate got a court order to retrieve his e-mails.
Wade didn't remember exactly what happened with his family during the Grand Canyon trip. He had to ask his mother to help him with the story. In his mother's OWN words, she says, "I will take a look at what I have written. I have several versions I will let you know if I think it is something that will benefit you."
She has different versions of the story and he will let him choose a story that best benefits his case?
During Leaving Neverland, Wade Robson said he was left alone with Michael Jackson for a week while his family went to the Grand Canyon. According to his mother, Wade Robson was with them.
Taj Jackson explains this account perfectly. He caught Wade Robson in a lie, which makes his entire reason for getting on the stand for Micheal complete BS.
This part of the documentary was EDITED OUT later.
Wade Robson's wife says she didn't have any knowledge of child sexual abuse.
However, on their website, she claimed to have been a survivor of Child Abuse, which contradicts her statement during Leaving Neverland. This was REMOVED from the website a few days after the documentary aired.
If you don't believe this is accurate, check the archives yourself.
https://www.hawaiicommunityfoundation.org/robsonchildabusehealingandpreventionfund: Robson Child Abuse Healing And Prevention Fund - Hawaii Community Foundation
www.hawaiicommunityfoundation.org: The Robson Child Abuse Healing And Prevention Fund is a Donor Advised Fund at the Hawaii Community Foundation. It was established in 2019 by Wade and Amanda Robson with a personal donation.
James Safechuck said during Leaving Neverland that he was pressured by Michael Jackson and his lawyers to testify at his trial. This cannot be true because there was a pre-trial motion that wouldn't allow him to testify.
There are only a few lies they have told. I can go on about the other accusers too and how the first accuser was pressured by his father to make a false confession because he was jealous of Michael and his ex-wife.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Raymon Chandler, (Jordan Chandler's uncle) wrote a book and gave an account between Evan Chandler and his Lawyer, Larry Feldman.
People say his description matched because he pointed out that Jackson had spots on his genital area. If Jackson announced to the world that he had vitiligo, then that's an easy prediction to make. They were prepared for an excuse EVEN if the description was wrong. Either way, they were going to try to appear right.
Batiman
Banned
I’m not talking about whether he’s innocent or guilty. I’m asking you a simple question that you can’t answer. And we both know the reason why you can’t answer it.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Ok fellas, I'm out I'm done with these sick pedo defenders
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Sentenza
Member
Imagine pretending that a son asking by mail to his mother "Hey mom, do you remember when that thing from 20 years ago exactly happened?" should be counted as overwhelming evidence that he was making up the whole thing.
That's the level of "debunking" these delusional nutjobs with an unapologetic fondness for pedos tend to stick to.
That's the level of "debunking" these delusional nutjobs with an unapologetic fondness for pedos tend to stick to.
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Batiman
Banned
You didn’t. If you did I missed it. Just answer the question again then. What’s the big deal?Do you mean the same question someone asked me on page 15 and I answered it?
Sentenza
Member
These people will always move the goalpost and lose any rationality about how normal people actually function when it comes to defend their favorite child rapist.
Years ago before this comical necro-bump I pointed that there are PLENTY of episodes of my infancy that I remember in some absurdly minute detail but right now I couldn't even tell exactly in what year they happened.
Not really an outlandish claim, that's something any normally-functioning human being SHOULD be able to relate to, because our memory is NOT reliable in keeping track of a "consistent timeline of our life"
As a trivial example, I was absolutely confident I played Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 in my mid teens until very recently, before realizing that the LAUNCH year of the former occurred when I was 20 and after my military service.
According to the clowns that should serve as conclusive evidence that I never played either of the two.
But no, even back then we had the whole circus putting up a clown show about how "that's absolutely impossible" and "honest people should have the details nailed down". Which is obviously bullshit.
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clarky
Gold Member
Been a "fun" thread. After dome digging im still feel the same. At the VERY least his actions and conduct point towards him being a very strange man who slept alone with young boys. That in isolation is enough for me personally not to want to listen to or purchase any of his music. I known his defenders in here and the wider world will disagree but if you take the boys accounts onboard as well as other things at worst he was a predator. I know you can say they are lying( and they have lied about a lot of stuff) but if they are they deserve Oscars. Going to nope out of the thread but its been interesting listening to both sides, i guess the truth will out someday.
Cheers.
Cheers.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
I did. Read my replies to clarky. You're just playing games now. You continue to ignore any shred of evidence that these accusers are liars and you want to repeat the same questions over and over that we have already answered before.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
I was brought here to call out Sentenza on this BS and he's resorting to nothing but personal attacks and has been caught lying multiple times.
This thread has shown that people don't care about facts and will not even attempt to discuss the lies, inconsistencies in these accuser's stories.
Again, I'm done unless people actually start discussing facts of this case and responding to the things at hand directly instead of just saying, "They're lies!"
This thread has shown that people don't care about facts and will not even attempt to discuss the lies, inconsistencies in these accuser's stories.
Again, I'm done unless people actually start discussing facts of this case and responding to the things at hand directly instead of just saying, "They're lies!"
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
I know I said I was done but I just can't with the defense of this monster.
Fact: he slept in the same bed as young boys who are no relation to him.
Fact: He is on video tightly clutching the hand of a teenage boy who is doting on him acting like lovers
Fact: He paid one of his victims off to the tune of $20 million
Fact: Victims of abuse are often protective of their abusers, yes even as adults. That's why they lie.
Fact: You yourself said you wouldn't allow your children to sleep in bed with the pedo.
And all you have is "but but but they lied" mental gymnastics and twisting yourself into a pretzel giving this sick pedo the benefit of the doubt because Billie Jean or something
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Ash Sparrow
Banned
To me its kinda hilarious to hear people say they wont listen to his music anymore. First who cares. no offense. Also That didnt stop his accusers from still enjoying it at their weddings, on their friends playlist etc. If Gavin can have it at his wedding, then you all sound crazy. Also Wade performed with Janet Jackson and wanted to work for the estate. Not suprised some are fleeing the trhead, too many facts.
Your so called facts have been debunked throughout the thread, but you do not care to read anything that will challenge your perception of this. Its not mental gymnastics at all, its actually quite easy because theres an overabundance of evidence in Michaels favor and the lies of the real monsters do not hold up when light is shined on them.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Every point has been address in this thread and refuted already. There are claims that you're making that are false. Either respond to those post or move along.
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Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Him sleeping with boys refuted? You saying you wouldn't let your kids sleep in his bed refuted? He didn't pay a victim $20 million?
Sentenza
Member
No, they really fucking haven't.
Being delusional about making up the most insubstantial excuses does not count as a credible "debunking".
Ash Sparrow
Banned
Thats why I love the Square One doc I posted a few pages back, its pretty much the he paid a 20 million settlement simple explanation for people who dont know what the hell they are talking about.
Ash Sparrow
Banned
Dont address me until you start making some sense. Its obvious you do not care about facts, truth only lies.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
The cognitive dissonance must be really eating away at the soul of these pedo defenders. It can't be good for their mental health. Ok, I'm really out this time.
Ash Sparrow
Banned
All the name calling, because thats all you have left, the facts are not in you guys favor. throwing a temper tantrum because you got crushed in this thread. It must hurt you that Michael Jackson manages to trend on social media positively like every other day. While the people you defend have been exposed to the point where they hide their faces.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Him sleeping with boys refuted? You saying you wouldn't let your kids sleep in his bed refuted? He didn't pay a victim $20 million?
Let's see if you can actual discuss the facts at hand without ignoring it. Address everything specifically as I will have them numbered.
According to Raymon Chandler (Evan Chandler's brother) Jordan Chandler denied being molested by Michael Jackson.
Evan Chandler desperately tried to get Jordan to tell him that Michael Jackson molested him, even lying about bugging his room and knowing what Michael and Jordan Chandler were talking about.
According to Raymon Chandler in his book, he didn't need Jordan Chandler to confess.
Evan Chandler didn't go directly to the police with his allegations. He went directly to Michael Jackson and demanded money.
Here's something you don't understand. Michael Jackson settled the civil case. The criminal case and investigation was still on going beyond the settlement.
According to Raymon Chandler, Evan Chandler and his lawyer didn't want to the criminal proceeding to come before the criminal proceedings.
Michael Jackson didn't want to pay 20 million dollars in the civil case, he wanted to delay the civil case until the criminal investigation was settled.
Again, in Raymon's book, Jackson wanted to delay the civil proceedings until after the criminal case was over.
The reason why Michael Jackson wanted the criminal case to go first because his lawyers knew that he could change and adjust their claims after the civil case. After the Chandlers got their money, they stopped cooperating with the police.
Shortly after the settlement, Jordan wanted "legal emancipation from his parents."
(1) Why did Evan Chandler say if he wanted to save Michael, he had to tell the truth?
(2) Why did Evan Chandler want his son to confess even though he had no proof he was molested and Jordan never admitted to anyone who was molested?
(3) Why would Jackson refuse Evan Chandler's demands after threatening to go public?
(4) Why didn't they go directly to the police?
(5) Why did they stop cooperating with the police in the criminal investigation after getting their money?
(6) Why would he get legal separation from his parents after the settlement?
(7) How could he pay them off when the criminal investigation was STIL ON GOING after the settlement?
Address all points directly and separately and back up your statements with facts and evidence.
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Batiman
Banned
I keep telling you I don’t give a fuck about the evidence. Guilty or not guilty of the accusations. I’m asking you if it’s ok for a man to be sleeping with children that are not related to him in any way. And would you be ok if any other men were to be doing that? It’s a simple fuckin question. This is assuming he’s even innocent of the crimes.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Honestly, if true, I’d draw that back to the parents as abusers. Who does that to their own children?
Batiman
Banned
For sure both are at fault IMO. Especially the parents. No sane person should allow that both ways
bitbydeath
Gold Member
I don’t think we’ll ever find out but my opinion is:
-MJ abused by his parents caused him never being able to stand up for himself against older people, and that’s also why he liked hanging around with young kids because he saw them as his peers.
-Other parents abused this situation, dumping their kids off onto him, knowing full well he couldn’t say no, in fear of their response/potential beatings.
-I don’t think Michael was ever a sexual person because he never grew up. Even with Lisa Marie, it was likely her coaxing him because he was not mentally mature.
-Michael was clearly messed up, but I don’t think it’s how they were trying to portray him.
I could be wrong but that’s what I’m gathering from his mental status.
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clarky
Gold Member
"Just when I thought I was out, they go ahead and pull me back in" LOL
Its doesn't matter WHY they paid out a settlement. The optics to the wider general public on settling out of court on a child sex abuse case are absolutely fucking terrible. As far as the general public are concerned its as close to an admission of guilt as your going to get.
Especially for 20 million big ones.
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clarky
Gold Member
Also,
.Your not getting a straight answer to that one mate, believe me , I tried for days. Most will ignore you, you might get some mental gymnastics if your lucky.
- Status