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[LionPride]

And then some of yall believe women have it easy when it comes to dating and shit? What the fuck yo

 

[gfxtwin]

I agree to a certain extent, but also disagree with the bolded. Correct, no man is owed a woman. And to say it's easy for a guy to get a girl simply by doing XYZ is complete bullshit for some guys I know. None of them happen to be white and all of them are pretty reasonable dudes though.

But hate does not need a "reason" to exist. People in the thread are pointing to sexual frustration as a reason. But true hatred and bigotry happens in susceptible people in absence of any reason. That's just the way they are or the behavior they learned. To try and cure the "cause" of racism is a very foolish pursuit.

Bigotry in all its forms is its own thing and should be treated as a cause and not a "result" of anything else.

When I once saw a KKK member asked why he hates blacks and Jews, he was very matter of fact about it. He said "I hate them because they exist. I don't need a reason. I hate them because they exist." (Yes, he actually repeated himself like that).

Bigotry doesn't spring up from nowhere. Nobody is born a complete bigot. There's a dialogue to be had about the nature of psychopathy and the role nature vs. nurture plays in shaping someone's hate, but, like you said, it's still a learned behavior that is learned from somewhere (most likely institutionalized injustices that are remnants from older, more savage generations and also your family/friends environment growing up).

 

[Shoeless]

And then some of yall believe women have it easy when it comes to dating and shit? What the fuck yo

I'm going to chalk that one up to youth and inexperience talking. It's the only way I can rationalize it.

 

[CoyoteSpitfire]

And then some of yall believe women have it easy when it comes to dating and shit? What the fuck yo

When it comes to finding casual sex they certainly have it easier than men.

 

[Mawnster]

It's hard for guys to talk to women they don't know exist. I'm just saying!

I never said the opposite. In fact, that was exactly the point of my post. I was replying to someone who claimed women generally have it 1000 times easier. Because the stereotype says we're all incredibly beautiful, extroverted, and have the social skills of PUAs. That's why I used the example of my shy friend. She isn't any different from all of these awkward loners that the thread is talking about.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Right, and it starts early. It's like the guys that were marginalized growing up are told "it's gonna get better, these other guys are gonna flame out after high school or college" think that, hey yeah I am gonna be attractive with my job and my success and so forth. Life's a Hallmark romantic comedy where the asshole jerk gets his one-uppance and the hero (i.e. me!) will get the hot girl. Only they get out into the real world and realize that there's millions of other guys just like him, but actually may be slightly more attractive for numerous reasons. Oh and that guy that was supposed to decline after high school? He never did.

Then the issue becomes, "well I'm gonna improve myself." Unfortunately, that's what all these other marginalized guys think too. And herein lies the rub though... some of these guys do those things; start dressing better, start learning new things to do, but it's never about themselves or improving their own self-worth and self-esteem. They're not stupid and realize "hey doing these things will, yes! Make me more attractive so let's get to it!" when the thought process should be "hey, I've always wanted to play the piano. I'm gonna learn just because I want to set a goal and accomplish it." Going back to my RPG stat analogy, the end goal is "sex with hot girl" and all of these attributes are just to level up further. It becomes an internal competition (you vs. the world/all those other alpha assholes/those bitches that don't appreciate me) and since they're not actually doing any of these things to help with their self esteem and ego, they can only maintain that for so long before they start to feel pangs of frustration since all their efforts (I learned how to play the piano! I go rock-climbing! I travel! What's WRONG WITH THESE WOMEN FOR NOT REALIZING HOW GREAT I AM?!) are not yielding the expected results.

That's when they look for outlets and other like-minded folks. That's where you run into trouble.

To be honest, I *started* down this path though quickly reversed courses early on. I had a bad breakup in college and wasn't dating for a long time. I fell into the nice-guy trap too. I could've ended up similar to that guy I grew up with I mentioned earlier in the thread until I took a long look at myself and said "you know what? I'm gonna get in shape since my cholesterol isn't the best. I'm gonna start eating better. I'm gonna start playing the piano again" and the end goal was never sex or a girl. It sounds hokey and cliched, but it was for me, to improve my self-worth. I still didn't have success dating for a while, but I also didn't care as much and was in a much better place mentally and you know what? Dating got way easier once I turned that corner, and I married the woman of my dreams.

This is my whole life, the perpetual inadequacy, but I didn't go to the alt right. So many people feel this way and don't go there though. Although I'm not sheltered from diversity.

Is it because we don't have a group to go to?

 

[kswiston]

When it comes to finding casual sex they certainly have it easier than men.

I have been married or in a relationship for the entire rise of online dating, but based on some of my friends, and my siblings, it seems like women barely have in easier thanks to the internet. They are more likely to be randomly propositioned, but that's about it. My brother had a friend who refused to leave his house for 7 years. Even he was picking up casual relationships pretty regularly.

Anyone can find casual sex pretty easily provided they don't have unrealistic standards (or any standards at all). Plenty of women also have dry spells due to said standards.

 

[Mawnster]

And then some of yall believe women have it easy when it comes to dating and shit? What the fuck yo

My new fav poster

This.

Although I've always liked your posts too, animlboogy. Just uh, throwing that out there.

 

[Peltz]

Bigotry doesn't spring up from nowhere. Nobody is born a complete bigot. There's a dialogue to be had about the nature of psychopathy and the role nature vs. nurture plays in shaping someone's hate, but, like you said, it's still a learned behavior that is learned from somewhere (most likely institutionalized injustices that are remnants from older, more savage generations and also your family/friends environment growing up).

The science on this issue is actually all over the road. Who knows what's true?

http://time.com/67092/baby-racists-survival-strategy/

http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/28/are-w...s-prejudice-is-hardwired-into-us-all-5316881/

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/10/new-evidence-that-racism-isnt-natural/263785/

http://www.kevinathompson.com/are-we-are-born-racist/

I agree , however, the type of racism we are generally talking about is a (mostly) learned racism.

 

[LiquidSword]

I didn't say women have it easier, I just said that a woman will have a much easier time finding a man and find it much easier to be in a fulfilling relationship. When it comes to the relationship, love, affection, intimacy part of life women have no problem. They still have problems in other areas of life

This is literally the entry point for MRA/red pill bullshit. The belief that women can just get sex or have a fulfilling relationship super easily. If you don't have an agenda and actually believe this, please do research and talk to more women.

 

[ClosingADoor]

It's this exact mindset that actually creates the very people this topic is talking about. If it was this easy (and it's obviously not), then there wouldn't be a discussion. You really think every sexually frustrated young male HASN'T tried the above? I'm tired of people who obviously have never had any issues attracting women saying bullshit advice like this. It's only making the problem worse.

There are many factors involved and very rarely when I meet these sexually frustrated men are the above problems ever actually an issue. It's much more complicated than that.

It is a bit more complicated, but I think we should also be honest and say that most likely a lot of them don't actually try to change. Putting on a nicer jacket is not suddenly going to change the way you act or are perceived by others. It takes actual work, getting out of your comfort zone and actually being a nice and fun person (and not a "nice" guy just looking for sex).

But I think it already goes downhill during upbringing and education. When you start getting antisocial in high school for example, and then go to internet places that reinforce your negative views, it takes real effort to break out of that. Couple that with bad job prospects, a constant stream of social media that tells you everyone else has a perfect life, and an economic environment where it is harder to simply make it on your own in your 20s.

I didn't say women have it easier, I just said that a woman will have a much easier time finding a man and find it much easier to be in a fulfilling relationship. When it comes to the relationship, love, affection, intimacy part of life women have no problem. They still have problems in other areas of life

You should talk to some girls about finding good relationships, because from what I see around me, they don't have it much easier. Sure, if you are reasonably decent looking, one night stands might be easier to arrange. But well, if you are a decent enough looking guy who can be a bit social, it is also not that hard. Problem is, the guys who are complaining they can't find anyone also want to find exactly the perfect, pretty girl they have in their mind and sometimes you simply have to lower your standards or maybe give someone a chance that doesn't fit your perfect picture.

 

[User Name Here]

I never said the opposite. In fact, that was exactly the point of my post. I was replying to someone who claimed women generally have it 100 times easier. Because the stereotype says we're all incredibly beautiful, extroverted, and have the social skills of PUAs. That's why I used the example of my shy friend. She isn't any different from all of these awkward loners that the thread is talking about.

Women do generally have it easier when it comes to attracting mates. The last girl I dated was the same type as your shy friend. But it didn't work out, and I got the strong impression that she liked her ex taller football playing boyfriend more than me because she kept bringing him up. That and I also got the impression that she was really just using me to feel liked and wanted.

 

[Dragonite]

I'm so tired of stuff like this. It's just not true.

I'm afraid reality is a lot more different than Instagram shows and most of us don't look like those gorgeous women that you see in there. We are equally humilliated and rejected for being average, and often have the same difficulties men do. I admit I haven't had much trouble when it comes to finding partners, but one of my friends stayed virgin until the age of 22 and the other one is 24 and still a virgin. None of them set their standards high, like many of the people in here like to say. They're not even that ugly, they're just average, nerdy and shy. I've heard them say things like "I'm desperate. I'd have sex with the first man who offers it" but then people have shamed them for thinking like that. In fact, I have another female friend who's the opposite case. She's slept with a huge amount of men in our area and everyone calls her a slut.

And I wonder... Is this what you call having it easier? What are we supposed to do to make it easier for you? What is it that you want from us? Like... should we all be easy and sleep with absolutely every guy and be shamed for it and called sluts? Or should we stay pure and virgin until marriage because sleeping around means we just want casual sex and not an actual romantic relationsip and then be called weirdoes or puritans?

Jesssssssus.

I will bet my life and everything I have that your friends can easily find boyfriends. They just have high standards or they're not even trying. Give me 2 days and I can set up an okcupid account for your friends and get them hundreds of dates lined up. And there is nothing wrong with being a slut or staying 'pure' women can do whatever they want. There is nothing women should do to make it easier for men, some men are just gutter trash. Also sluts don't sleep with every guy, that's just a myth, if it was true no man would be sexually frustrated lol.

 

[The Technomancer]

I do think it odd that straight white guys get the excuse of a lack of sex, but gay guys who go through far worse aren't blowing the shit out of churches and mosques. Hell, I went through years of agony as a teenager dealing with my sexuality, including the fact I couldn't even tell people or contemplate having sex. Same goes for young black straight men who face exactly the same issues - yet to see them walk into a congregation and start shooting.

Well said

 

[ClosingADoor]

I will bet my life and everything I have that your friends can easily find boyfriends. They just have high standards or they're not even trying. Give me 2 days and I can set up an okcupid account for your friends and get them hundreds of dates lined up. And there is nothing wrong with being a slut or staying 'pure' women can do whatever they want. There is nothing women should do to make it easier for men, some men are just gutter trash. Also sluts don't sleep with every guy, that's just a myth, if it was true no man would be sexually frustrated lol.

Sure, hundreds of messages. Now to find an actual decent match between there to start a relationship with and that you like and fall in love with. About 99% of the population can find a boy- or girlfriend if they just take whatever is thrown at them, but it doesn't work that way, and talking like girls just have "high standard or not even trying" seems a bit offensive.

Women do generally have it easier when it comes to attracting mates. The last girl I dated was the same type as your shy friend. But it didn't work out, and I got the strong impression that she liked her ex taller football playing boyfriend more than me because she kept bringing him up. That and I also got the impression that she was really just using me to feel liked and wanted.

Your story tells me they don't have it easier, because the person she actually wanted didn't want to have a relationship with her. And please don't start with the discussion about how every guy needs to be tall.

 

[4 is a cutie]

I didn't say women have it easier, I just said that a woman will have a much easier time finding a man and find it much easier to be in a fulfilling relationship. When it comes to the relationship, love, affection, intimacy part of life women have no problem. They still have problems in other areas of life

Attracting any horny guy =/= fulfilling relationship

 

[Not]

Hey maybe if women were taught that they were "owed" sex by the time they hit puberty, they'd have a harder time finding relationships too

 

[User Name Here]

Sure, hundreds of messages. Now to find an actual decent match between there to start a relationship with and that you like and fall in love with. About 99% of the population can find a boy- or girlfriend if they just take whatever is thrown at them, but it doesn't work that way, and talking like girls just have "high standard or not even trying" seems a bit offensive.


Your story tells me they don't have it easier, because the person she actually wanted didn't want to have a relationship with her. And please don't start with the discussion about how every guy needs to be tall.

But she was able to find someone else easily (me). And likely after me. I still haven't dated after her. I've aslo been told I was cute and I have a likeable personality.

Hey... I just thought it was an interesting coincidence that she preferred the taller guy.

Believe it or not, I know every person is different and has their "type" or people they believe they match up well with.

 

[Dragonite]

I have been married or in a relationship for the entire rise of online dating, but based on some of my friends, and my siblings, it seems like women barely have in easier thanks to the internet. They are more likely to be randomly propositioned, but that's about it. My brother had a friend who refused to leave his house for 7 years. Even he was picking up casual relationships pretty regularly.

Anyone can find casual sex pretty easily provided they don't have unrealistic standards (or any standards at all). Plenty of women also have dry spells due to said standards.

Your brother's friend is extremely good looking if he doesn't even have to leave the house. Men like him have it way easier than woman.

And no not everyone can get casual sex. I have a few ugly friends with no standards that spam tinder and POF all day and can't even get a date, while my good looking friends have multiple fuck buddies.

 

[T_V_H]

This certainly has been an interesting topic and sadly I have seen friends go down this path of extreme frustration, anger and self-loathing, I was prime candidate myself once. I feel a lot of these issues stem from a completely perverted form of masculine pride and a completely fucked up perception of what a man should be, and what's even more fucked up is that I still, even after seeing a friend take his own life, acknowledging the absurdity of "manlines" and accepting failures. I still hold myself (and sometimes others) to these ridicilous standards, espcially under stress I sometimes scare myself on how emotionally criple seemingly cold I can be. I had a troubled youth and was cheated on twice so at least I know where most of my issues originate from, makes it easier to improve as a human being. Even though people around me see my as a confident guy, I feel I'm still not there. I'm eternally thankful for my loving parents and relationship, people close to me sometimes have a lot to deal with my pent-up anger and I don't what I'd be without them. And yes that was a bit of a long vent/rant and I usually don't do things like this. All I'm trying to say is that even though it's disturbing in so many different ways, I can relate to some of these lunatics on some level.

And legalized and regulated prostitution to reduce sexual frustation among young males? To some extent yes, but no legislation will remove the social stigma attatched to using the services of a prostitute, neither will it give the sexually frustrated young man a healthy perspective on intimacy and sex.

 

[Dragonite]

Lol what? Yeah they do.

Yeah lol, I don't literally mean 0 problems, just significantly fewer than men.

 

[LionPride]

I'm going to chalk that one up to youth and inexperience talking. It's the only way I can rationalize it.

Lol nope

My new fav poster



Who or what are they having sex with

awwww

No the question is, why do straight white guys get this excuse, but others don't?

 

[CoyoteSpitfire]

Hey maybe if women were taught that they were "owed" sex by the time they hit puberty, they'd have a harder time finding relationships too

I've never spoken to a man that thought he was "owed" sex, aside from here on NeoGaf. The issue is that if a man reaches a certain age without having sex, he's openly mocked as a failure or, at the very least, a weirdo. I can't say I've ever heard of women having to deal with that.

 

[ClosingADoor]

But she was able to find someone else easily (me). And likely after me. I still haven't dated after her.

Finding someone isn't that hard, finding someone you actually want and who wants you is.

Your brother's friend is extremely good looking if he doesn't even have to leave the house. Men like him have it way easier than woman.

And no not everyone can get casual sex. I have a few ugly friends with no standards that spam tinder and POF all day and can't even get a date, while my good looking friends have multiple fuck buddies.

If Tinder or POF don't work, then maybe they need to work on themselves first and try to find different ways to meet a partner. Online dating is about looks mostly, so of course some will have it easier then others.

Plus, if you want to talk about casual sex, men can just pay a few hundred and bang hot escorts. Doesn't get much easier then that.

 

[Snagret]

The pushback against feminism from these groups is so ironic to me, considering most of their frustrations stem from a culture that normalizes toxic masculinity (an issue feminism aims to address).

 

[Dragonite]

This is literally the entry point for MRA/red pill bullshit. The belief that women can just get sex or have a fulfilling relationship super easily. If you don't have an agenda and actually believe this, please do research and talk to more women.

I'm not a mra or into that red pill bullshit, but I genuinely believe that women have it easier,and I don't think there is anything wrong with that,

 

[Mawnster]

I will bet my life and everything I have that your friends can easily find boyfriends. They just have high standards or they're not even trying. Give me 2 days and I can set up an okcupid account for your friends and get them hundreds of dates lined up. And there is nothing wrong with being a slut or staying 'pure' women can do whatever they want. There is nothing women should do to make it easier for men, some men are just gutter trash. Also sluts don't sleep with every guy, that's just a myth, if it was true no man would be sexually frustrated lol.

I don't know if you have decided to just ignore everything I've said about my friends and made your own assumptions because you think you know better or you legit didn't read my post. A person who says "I'll literally sleep with the first man who offers / I'll go out with anyone who offers" DOESN'T have high standards. Not to mention online dating sites are laughable. Specially for the kind of people I'm describing here. I repeat, these friends of mine are just as awkward and have the same poor social skills as the white kids we've been talking about in this thread. They don't know how to communicate with others. It's just difficult for them.

It's not that hard to understand.

 

[Not]

I've never spoken to a man that thought he was "owed" sex, aside from here on NeoGaf.

It's a generalization based on certain baffling mindsets that I've read and heard.

The issue is that if a man reaches a certain age without having sex, he's openly mocked as a failure or, at the very least, a weirdo. I can't say I've ever heard of women having to deal with that.

So should we go after women here or the society that places such dumb standards on average men that some of them actually go berserk if they don't measure up?

 

[Snagret]

I've never spoken to a man that thought he was "owed" sex, aside from here on NeoGaf. The issue is that if a man reaches a certain age without having sex, he's openly mocked as a failure or, at the very least, a weirdo. I can't say I've ever heard of women having to deal with that.

It's an invisible expectation that manifests itself as sexual frustration. Men in western society are absolutely taught that they are "owed sex", and the sexual frustration they feel is because of this subconscious expectation going unfulfilled. Another symptom of this expectation is the very phenomenon you describe, shaming men for not having sex early enough in their life time. It's all part of a larger machine, a series of cogs subtly manipulating men to accept an image of the type of man they should be, the role they should aspire to fulfill in society, and the types of rewards they should expect for fulfilling those idealistic roles. It's not as simple as a deliberate, conscious thought. It's a tangled web of social pressure, representation in media, and cultural norms.

 

[CoyoteSpitfire]

Plus, if you want to talk about casual sex, men can just pay a few hundred and bang hot escorts. Doesn't get much easier then that.

Yes, because finding someone who wants to have sex with you because they think you're attractive is totally the same thing as paying a career prostitute to tolerate you while you get off.

It's an invisible expectation that manifests itself as sexual frustration. Men in western society are absolutely taught that they are "owed sex", and the sexual frustration they feel is because of this subconscious expectation going unfulfilled.

Couldn't they just as easily be frustrated because they desperately want something that they are unable to get?

So should we go after women here or the society that places such dumb standards on average men that some of them actually go berserk if they don't measure up?

You won't find me advocating going after women for this.

 

[Dragonite]

Sure, hundreds of messages. Now to find an actual decent match between there to start a relationship with and that you like and fall in love with. About 99% of the population can find a boy- or girlfriend if they just take whatever is thrown at them, but it doesn't work that way, and talking like girls just have "high standard or not even trying" seems a bit offensive.

That's not true, lots of guys will take anything and still end up with nothing.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

A lot of people seem to think that either everything is cultural or everything is biological. If only things were that simple and needed such a narrow understanding of the world to figure out. It should be obvious though that effects are much more powerful when biology and culture are both pulling somebody in the same direction.

Sexual frustration combined with a culture that permits violence towards women is dangerous. We take it as obvious that tolerating violence towards women is unacceptable although if you take a purely cultural relativist view then you can't judge other cultures for not saying it is. Others might take an absolutist view of it morally and say that people who don't allow it are degenerates who give women too much power in society. We have to disagree because that is totally against our law and values.

But the sexual drive is natural and pretty much universal for men. It doesn't care if you have a relativist view of it being different in different cultures. It isn't, it's a biological imperative. It doesn't care if you take an absolutist moral position on it being unacceptable or creepy in cases where you don't want to think of somebody as a person who should be having sex. It's a natural effect of human biology.

 

[Kiriku]

You can find some of them in this livestream every now and then: http://hewillnotdivide.us/
But they usually voice their more extreme opinions during nighttime when nobody's around.

 

[gfxtwin]

The science on this issue is actually all over the road. Who knows what's true?

http://time.com/67092/baby-racists-survival-strategy/

http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/28/are-w...s-prejudice-is-hardwired-into-us-all-5316881/

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/10/new-evidence-that-racism-isnt-natural/263785/

http://www.kevinathompson.com/are-we-are-born-racist/

I agree , however, the type of racism we are generally talking about is a (mostly) learned racism.

Context, bias, etc. An argument can be made that evidence of psychopathy being a born (but still managable) trait is mounting. That said, it's likely that all racists/mysoginysts/LGBT-haters/etc are psychopaths/sociopaths to a degree, but not all psychopaths/sociopaths are necessarily going to be any of those things.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Yes, because finding someone who wants to have sex with you because they think you're attractive is totally the same thing as paying a career prostitute to tolerate you while you get off

Just pointing out that men also have options if they are just looking for sex.

That's not true, lots of guys will take anything and still end up with nothing.

The mindset of just taking anyone who shows interest in them is not healthy and they should really look inward to change that. Nobody wants to be with someone who doesn't value themselves, since that generally isn't much fun to be around. This goes for both men and women.

 

[LiquidSword]

I'm not a mra or into that red pill bullshit, but I genuinely believe that women have it easier,and I don't think there is anything wrong with that,

Not accusing you of being and MRA. Just saying that that mindset is the stem of a lot of their bullshit. (Women control men with sex, they emit mind controlling pheromones, etc. etc.) Of course you can genuinely believe anything, it doesn't mean you are right though.

I've never spoken to a man that thought he was "owed" sex, aside from here on NeoGaf. The issue is that if a man reaches a certain age without having sex, he's openly mocked as a failure or, at the very least, a weirdo. I can't say I've ever heard of women having to deal with that.

I mean women have to deal with the same shit from the opposite direction. Do any little thing to show your sexuality, even something as simple as a kiss, and all the sudden they are slut.

 

[User Name Here]

Finding someone isn't that hard, finding someone you actually want and who wants you is.


If Tinder or POF don't work, then maybe they need to work on themselves first and try to find different ways to meet a partner. Online dating is about looks mostly, so of course some will have it easier then others.

Plus, if you want to talk about casual sex, men can just pay a few hundred and bang hot escorts. Doesn't get much easier then that.

The point is that it is easier for women to deal with that than men. Unless you're ultra picky.

 

[CoyoteSpitfire]

Just pointing out that men also have options if they are just looking for sex.

Fundamentally unequal options.

Nobody wants to be with someone who doesn't value themselves, since that generally isn't much fun to be around.

And how in the world are you supposed to value yourself if nobody wants to be around you?

I mean, that is exactly why they are frustrated. But it's important to unpack why those desires are so central to their sense of identity and self-esteem. Is it because we put an enormous amount of pressure on men to behave a certain way? How and why is it that we as a society have assigned so much value to certain behaviors and roles for men that we expecect them to fill before we validate them?

I still don't think that amounts to frustrated men thinking they're "owed" sex. But, maybe I'm getting hung up on semantics.

 

[Snagret]

Yes, because finding someone who wants to have sex with you because they think you're attractive is totally the same thing as paying a career prostitute to tolerate you while you get off.


Couldn't they just as easily be frustrated because they desperately want something that they are unable to get?

I mean, that is exactly why they are frustrated. But it's important to unpack why those desires are so central to their sense of identity and self-esteem. Is it because we put an enormous amount of pressure on men to behave a certain way? How and why is it that we as a society have assigned so much value to certain behaviors and roles for men that we expecect them to fill before we validate them?

 

[kswiston]

Your brother's friend is extremely good looking if he doesn't even have to leave the house. Men like him have it way easier than woman.

Nah. My brother and all of his friends spent their high school years playing magic cards under one of the stairwells at school. This guy's "job" for a while was botting Diablo 3 accounts and selling the gold/items on the real money auction house. He's a nerd, and not a particularly great looking one. Half of the girls he met were from MMOs or other online games. He just had confidence.

Attitude makes all of the difference. Looks obviously help, but a below average guy with confidence and a sense of humor is going to attract more people than an above average looking guy who is extremely introverted and/or antisocial.

The same is true with women. When someone tries to strike up a conversation and you give one word answers, and seem to make no attempt to carry or engage in the conversation, they will probably give up and assume that you don't want to talk to them. It doesn't matter if you are male or female.

I can't really speak for online dating, since most of the websites you are bringing up didn't exist before I met my wife, but I would imagine that it's pretty similar once you get past the online part.

 

[Not]

That's another good point, that men aren't shamed for easily being able to attain sexual relationships, while women are

If it was reversed guys, you might be able to get some action more easily but you wouldn't be nearly as congratulated for it. You may even be denigrated or excluded. Would that be worth it?

Point is, sex is cool and affirmation is cooler but it's honestly not worth starting another holocaust over

 

[CoyoteSpitfire]

That's another good point, that men aren't shamed for easily being able to attain sexual relationships, while women are

If it was reversed guys, you might be able to get some action more easily but you wouldn't be nearly as congratulated for it. You may even be denigrated or excluded. Would that be worth it?

Point is, sex is cool and affirmation is cooler but it's honestly not worth starting another holocaust over

I'd rather get action and then be denigrated and excluded than not get any action and be denigrated and excluded.

 

[Dragonite]

If Tinder or POF don't work, then maybe they need to work on themselves first and try to find different ways to meet a partner. Online dating is about looks mostly, so of course some will have it easier then others.

Plus, if you want to talk about casual sex, men can just pay a few hundred and bang hot escorts. Doesn't get much easier then that.

They also frequently go to social clubs, like for learning Spanish and stuff, go to night clubs, join organizations in schools, go to parties etc and can't get anything, and they are not shy. They are just very short and ugly, meanwhile my good looking friends and I have no problem with online dating or meeting women through social circles. I used to be ugly so I know both sides, when you're average, ugly, or attractive for you entire life you don't know what's it's like on the other side. No one will convince me that I get women through my personality, hair style, confidence etc. I know how powerful looks can be and witnessed it first hand after I got a rhinoplasty. But just being ugly doesn't mean no women will want you it's more like 1 in 30000 will find you attractive, so it just becomes a numbers game. I argue with my girlfriend all the time about this, she thinks she likes me because of my personality but I tell her that my face is just having a halo effect on her lol.

 

[T_V_H]

Yes, because finding someone who wants to have sex with you because they think you're attractive is totally the same thing as paying a career prostitute to tolerate you while you get off.

This exactly, having sex with a prostitute will most likely not boost anyones confidence or make a socialy akward and shy man into a pussy pounding playboy they sometimes so desperately want to be.

And those who are saying that women have it "easy", how? As in finding desirable sexual partners? And if so, no it's "attractive" people in general who get laid and "ugly" people don't.

And regarding the whole "owed sex" thing, I have not encountered that but I can't count the times I've encountered a "not-so good looking" male friend of mine turning down a "not-so pretty girl" because they feel they are "owed" a fucking pornstar or a super model. It's sad really.

 

[Snagret]

I'd rather get action and then be denigrated and excluded than not get any action and be denigrated and excluded.

Sex is not nearly as validating or inherently joyful as you think it is, especially casual sex. Respect, motivation, passion, expression, and self-actualization are qualities of a healthy, happy mind. Sex will not replace those aspects of your life.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I definitely don't want to come off as turning the idea of lonely people into villains. And you're right, brainwashing is a real phenomenon.

What I'm getting at is that, a lot of good people never get anywhere close to these nightmare communities. Some people who are maybe a little flawed can eventually get roped in, sure.

I think the unsung aspect of these communities is that a lot of these guys are shitty in other ways. It isn't just about being lonely or awkward or nerdy or growing up bullied or considered ugly. Too many decent people meet all of those criteria. If you really want to pick up on the precursors to becoming an extremist, you need to include a bit more than that to identify who is at risk for conversion.

Simply getting these people into relationships at all costs will help nothing. Case in point: arranged marriages don't seem to do a whole lot to end misogyny; the practice tends to skew things in the opposite direction. The problems run deeper than being lonely, or not having sex.

There's a broader disconnect with humanity that a lot of these guys demonstrate. You see it in the obsession with shitposting/trolling, with the extremely organized, targeted harassment they engage in, and in the very rare extreme cases the murders they commit (Eliot Rodger, Quebec City).

I don't care to see run of the mill awkwardness correlated too heavily with the freakshows on Reddit and 4chan. And I definitely don't think too much energy should be spent coddling people who will take great joy in spitting in your face. At this point, we need to make it extremely clear that this behavior is unwelcome in our society, because frankly they've used this tool that they're just nice guys who need a hug to their advantage.

I think this might skew further into philosophical territory than something empirically provable, but fundamentally everyone starts off the same, absent certain defects at birth and the like. Even most lead poisoning is statically not a huge driver of lowered IQ. But it's our environment that plays the largest role in our development. Where I don't understand the empathy gap in threads when we talk about rural conservatives is that chances are the only thing that separates a white liberal from a white conservative is your upbringing and geography. The only thing that often separates a poor child from thriving versus one that spirals into the classic tale of drug abuse, lots of kids, et al is education and opportunity.

This doesn't absolve individuals from responsibility; the other component that defines us is how we react to that environment. But unless you fix the underlying cause barking at more people to jump the hurdle with a limp is more about moral posturing than pragmatic policy solutions.

You have liberals send conservatives death threats all the time. It'd be a lot simpler if we could suggest biological faults for the existence of conservatives and angry young men. But the broader reality is that those people started just like us. The world isn't awash in sociopaths or people with mental disorders that spring out of nowhere.

Hmmm.... But what could the opposite of that for women possibly be...........

Spoiler

of course, the general reaction that it's weird to be a virgin late persists for women nonetheless on top of the slutshaming, just not to the same exact extent as men.

In general I think we still have a lot of weird "roads" navigating our relationship mores and gender dynamics. There's some forms of shaming that are only appropriate if someone of the same sex does them, versus others that are more universal, aspects of expected chivalry while the concept is outdated, etc. One of the interesting elements of homosexual relationships is that it allows a sort of control to see to what extent our gender roles are informed by biology versus societal pressures. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/health/10well.html

 

[DragoonKain]

True crime is a major passion of mine. I've studied it for well over a decade now. Partly because my dad was a detective, but it's always been an interest of mine. Mainly homicides. However, during these times, it kinda branched off into terrorism, because much like serial killers and general psychopaths, I was interested in what made terrorists tick.

Generally, it seems like radicalization starts from either one of the combination of the following things:

-Down on your luck, needing a sense of purpose or belonging: Hate groups love people like this. They will give them a purpose and a direction, and because these vulnerable people never had that before, they have a sudden extreme loyalty to their new-found "brothers."

-Anger: A lot of radicalized people are just pissed off. At themselves, at the world, and need a cause to focus their anger upon. Hate/terror groups give them this.

-Desperation: desperate times cause for desperate measures. Throughout history desperate people are known to resort to extreme ideologies and actions, and are more open to those beliefs, because they feel nothing else is working for them.

-Poverty: ties in with desperation and being down on your luck.

-Lack of education: the more you know and understand about the world and people, the less you fear them, and thus, the less you hate them. Much hatred in this world is caused by the fear of the unknown.

-Isolation: you need friendships and relationships in life to brush up on basic skills of common sense and understanding of people. Common sense is partially in-born, but it can also be refined by being "out there" in the world and experiencing day to day life.


Regardless of your race or religion, those seem to be common threads for all radicalized and extremists. Maybe the white extremists these days are finding themselves increasingly in one of those above situations. I think it's a combination of what is within the person and outside elements that mold them, and both need to be examined to fully understand. There are some evil people out there born with psychopathic tendencies, but there are also people where if their upbringing, social situation, financial situation were different, they may have grown up to be a doctor loved by all, and instead became a terrorist.

 

[CoyoteSpitfire]

Sex is not nearly as validating or inherently joyful as you think it is, especially casual sex. Respect, motivation, passion, expression, and self-actualization are qualities of a healthy, happy mind. Sex will not replace those aspects of your life.

I never said that it would. I was making the oh-so-controversial remark that having sex is probably better than not having sex.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

And then some of yall believe women have it easy when it comes to dating and shit? What the fuck yo

I know this is obvious to most of you, but for the rest of the audience, LionPride's point here isn't just to pile onto the people saying that women have it easy. He's pointing out the hypocrisy in saying "telling men that sex is easy is a problem because it makes them feel inadequate" and then turning around and saying that sex is easy for women.

 

[IAmtheFMan]

This is my whole life, the perpetual inadequacy, but I didn't go to the alt right. So many people feel this way and don't go there though. Although I'm not sheltered from diversity.

Is it because we don't have a group to go to?

I'd like to think most white men that feel marginalized don't go alt right. I don't have any hard numbers or anything to back that up though. I think you (hopefully) have outlets of some sort... and honestly, isn't GAF kind of a group?