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Web Design and Development |OT| Pixel perfect is dead, long live responsive design

Futureman

Member
so I designed my website with Adobe Muse.

I mentioned it earlier and no one responded so I guess you are all code snobs (just kidding ha).

but I thought I'd still share it so you can check it out and laugh at the size of the HTML/CSS.

www.gregburgh.com
 

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
so I designed my website with Adobe Muse.

I mentioned it earlier and no one responded so I guess you are all code snobs (just kidding ha).

but I thought I'd still share it so you can check it out and laugh at the size of the HTML/CSS.

www.gregburgh.com

dcgjipl.gif


For real though, your site looks pretty darn nice. I don't have my laptop available, so I'm looking at it on mobile.

If you're open to constructive criticism, I would recommend adding some side padding/margin to that first big picture. The medium sized pictures also don't line up on the page evenly. Lastly the menu at the top is great, but it leaves two options highlighted if you click for nav.

Annnyways, I really like the color scheme you went with. I think it's a site that works well for what you are trying to display, (photography). Nice job.
 

Futureman

Member
I noticed all the things you mentioned and I'm fiddling around to make it work better. It does look a bit off on mobile, though Muse let's you create tablet/phone versions of your site that I didn't touch yet (Muse doesn't allow true responsive design, you need to do separate designs). The nav thing seems to be a pain and I might just disable the roll over states.

and yea, at least to me, with web standards pretty great across the browers, Muse seems like a decent choice to me if you are building a simple, information based website.
 
so I designed my website with Adobe Muse.

I mentioned it earlier and no one responded so I guess you are all code snobs (just kidding ha).

but I thought I'd still share it so you can check it out and laugh at the size of the HTML/CSS.

www.gregburgh.com

Looking good! There are some performance issues, though. Initial load is 7.4MB which is pretty high for anyone trying to view it on a mobile data plan. Maybe look into using a lazy loader for your images so they'll only download when needed. Also, your Javascript isn't concatenated, your CSS is neither concatenated or minified, and the version of jQuery you're using is over two years old.
 

Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
How do you guys like to handle mobile navigation? Do you use the burger style menu or do you prefer a different method?

I like a burger that pops a menu down under the top bar, instead of one that slides a menu in from the side. Just feels like an easier transition to me, moving your thumb down to an item near the button you just hit up top, vs going over to the side.
 
What are some e-commerce sites besides obvious ones like Amazon that you think have great UI/UX. I'm doing some research as I'm gonna be designing some e-commerce sites soon and would like some input from you guys. Thanks!
 

Maiar_m

Member
How do you guys like to handle mobile navigation? Do you use the burger style menu or do you prefer a different method?

If your menu items can fit on the screen comfortably, please consider an option that doesn't require the hamburger. The fact is that when your user wants to navigate, requiring them to click on a button to display a menu that you could have made work in your current layout is a waste of an interaction.

When and if your layout doesn't leave enough space for a real menu, consider thumb placement in regards to the location of the hamburger button. Most are seen in the top right corner of the phone, which is arguably the hardest place to reach with your right thumb when holding the phone. Bottom left or center might be the best option.

As Tathanen said, keep in mind that if you're triggering a hamburger menu, "thumb voyage" should be minimal once that button is hit. Once the panel has been opened, you should be able to pick a menu entry without effort.
 
Dear diary,

I was just minding my own business, creating awesome appz with the latest hipsterific tech stack. Then this assignment fell down on my lap. It was creating this thing with Articulate Storyline 2 https://www.articulate.com/products/storyline-why.php. Cool, it's being used by Microsoft and Google and Cocacola and so on so it must be good.

What's Storyline 2?

slidergif.gif


Wow well that is pretty impressing mr. Articulate. So I install the trial of an 300 Mb suite and first impressions are... all thing considering kinda positive, as it's exactly like Powerpoint: every single thing in the ribbons and menus are exactly where they were on Powerpoint etc. etc. The end product is this exported thing that mostly runs on Flash (yeah baby) but it also exports an "HTML5" version. Okay then, let's start making some interactive e-leeeernings.

So I start soft-"coding" stuff and it's exactly like I predicted to be: "simple", but not robust. Everything takes 10 times the time it would have taken to create in HTML+CSS, but if you know Powerpoint, you can manage this. The real meat to this interactivity is this Trigger system, which is something like you do in Flash. You click an object, attach a "trigger" which is pretty much a conditional event listener and wow, there's your awesome interactive e-learning. Okay then, now I am at the point where I have created something after I have only thought about hitting my face in the desk like 5 or 6 times (due to things like non existent SVG support and ridiculously bad "timeline", where scrobbling the timeline doesn't actually animate the elements").

I have this "form" (which is two text fields, the program has "text field" and number field with controls built in) which I want to validate. Like I said, the event system is (optionally) conditional, so I create a click handler trigger that launches some JavaScript code (oooh yeeah, the thing is expandable with JS!) to validate the field and then animates some thing... except, wait... where's the reference.

Oh right, there it is, let me quote the JavaScript API for you.

Code:
player.SetVar(variablename, value) string, string|boolean|number
Set a value for a global variable

player.GetVar(variablename) string
Get a global variable

And that's the full extend of the JavaScript API. There are some other methods and values that are public, but mostly those are things that you never have to or want to touch.

The thing I forgot to mention is that

- Every "object" is a standalone state machine
- and then there's tons of global variables

That's the full extend of the manual control you have over the elements, together with the worst timeline in the history. So let's put that information to use.

1. We have a "Submit"-button.
2. We set a "trigger" for the "submit"-button to "execute JavaScript"
3. We create a global variable (inside the program) for "success".
4. We have a "Success message"-object
5. We set a "trigger" for the "Success message" to "change state" to "Visible" when "variable changes" if variable "success" is set to "true"
6. We set the submit buttons execute JavaScript button to
- GetVar from text fields 1 and 2
- SetVar success if those match whatever we like to validate.

Oh my god it's the most monsterous MVC system ever invented. So, let's preview how this works.
Press preview, the program loads for 15 seconds and my awesome interaction appears.
I fill in the fields and press submit and

JavaScript is not available in preview

Goddammit. I guess I publish it then. So I go and publish it which takes 30 seconds more and now I have this 4 megabyte system running on Flash and on top of HTML I guess. And it works. Sort of. Oh well, I guess I couldn't have expected more from a program that is fr...

costs 1800 dollars?!? I think I died and I am in web developer hell
 
So, maybe you guys have some suggestions.

I need to build a simple website for our business which is we have an automobile dealership.

This is in India, so the site has to be mobile friendly, lightweight (slow internet connections).

Basically want:
Rotating banner on homepage
Forms for contacting us, booking test drive, getting a quote
Products page
Services Page including ability to book an appointment

You get the gist.

I would prefer to use a CMS system. I am not very good at designing things though I can code no problem.

What do you guys suggest can be used?
 

grmlin

Member
Lightweight? Be careful using plugins, frameworks etc. on the client side.

I would build this from the ground up, mobile first.

For the backend: I don't know, not my speciality ;)
 
Hi guys .Net developer here.

I want to get more into the front end side of things, so I'm investigating Node and all the npm tools that are usually associated with it (Grunt, LESS, Jasmine ..etc)

I've previously built an HTML 5 website using knockout, but I wasn't using the recommended toolset, and in the end had over 150 js files that I included :).

I want to learn the 'proper' way to do things now. I plan on using React as my main client side framework, but I also may use Node as the backend (or maybe stick with IIS not sure yet). Any suggestions on what my toolset should be? So far I have:

npm
Grunt
React
Flux
JSHint

Any advice is appreciated =)
 
Hi guys .Net developer here.

I want to get more into the front end side of things, so I'm investigating Node and all the npm tools that are usually associated with it (Grunt, LESS, Jasmine ..etc)

I've previously built an HTML 5 website using knockout, but I wasn't using the recommended toolset, and in the end had over 150 js files that I included :).

I want to learn the 'proper' way to do things now. I plan on using React as my main client side framework, but I also may use Node as the backend (or maybe stick with IIS not sure yet). Any suggestions on what my toolset should be? So far I have:

npm
Grunt
React
Flux
JSHint

Any advice is appreciated =)

You got the toolset pretty much covered. I haven't worked with Reach much, but "the React way" of doing things seems to be pretty well covered in the docs. Good rule thumb is always to double check if you are being uncertain if the way you are doing is the "correct" way or not.
 
You got the toolset pretty much covered. I haven't worked with Reach much, but "the React way" of doing things seems to be pretty well covered in the docs. Good rule thumb is always to double check if you are being uncertain if the way you are doing is the "correct" way or not.

Thanks man, much appreciated.

I'll probably come back and ask for help.
 

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
Have any of you worked with the FreshBooks API?

I'm currently trying to build something that will alert me when a client pays an invoice, but keep running in circles.
 

grmlin

Member
If you don't want to mess around with 120 js files this time, consider using browserify. I love it and use it whenever I can.

There even is (of couse!) reactify, a browserify transform for react files. (.jsx will be precompiled automatically in the background for you)

I have to build a react app the next months and I'm curious, if it will stand the hype. But I'm excited. Will miss coffeescript though :(
 

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
If you don't want to mess around with 120 js files this time, consider using browserify. I love it and use it whenever I can.

There even is (of couse!) reactify, a browserify transform for react files. (.jsx will be precompiled automatically in the background for you)

I have to build a react app the next months and I'm curious, if it will stand the hype. But I'm excited. Will miss coffeescript though :(

There's a repo for that. https://github.com/jsdf/coffee-react-transform
 
If you don't want to mess around with 120 js files this time, consider using browserify. I love it and use it whenever I can.

There even is (of couse!) reactify, a browserify transform for react files. (.jsx will be precompiled automatically in the background for you)

I have to build a react app the next months and I'm curious, if it will stand the hype. But I'm excited. Will miss coffeescript though :(

yea planning on using the standard module patterns supported by node (Common, require)

React seems promising. But we'll see if it holds up to the hype. The way I see it everyone eventually needs to move on from Angular anyway, React seems like the next big thing.
 

grmlin

Member

I don't think this is something I want to do with coffeescript, and I have no idea if my IDE supports this syntax anyway.

I think I will use ES6 with 6to5. "Native" class support came with v0.13.

I'm not a facebook guy, but if developers using a framework for something as massive as facebook I'm slightly optimistic. :)
I don't know about the react-surrounding architecture with flux. Other frameworks are way more mature here, I think.
 
I have a question for the web developers in here.

I'd like to set up a website where consumers can buy and create contracts for a specific industry. Like LegalZoom, but very niche.

Customer would select the agreements they need, pay, and then be led through a questionnaire. After doing the questionnaire(s), they would be emailed a PDF version of the agreement.

Assuming I have more time than money, what would I need to learn in order to be able to do this? Is there a particular programming or scripting language? I could spit out a file to a 3rd party service that will create the PDF, if I can get the ecommerce and questionnaires hooked up. I'd like to automate the whole thing.

Any ideas?
 

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
WordPress + GravityForms could handle all that.

Write a hook into the functions.php class for gform_after_submission that talks with your 3rd party to send it all the information from your questionnaire.
 
WordPress + GravityForms could handle all that.

Write a hook into the functions.php class for gform_after_submission that talks with your 3rd party to send it all the information from your questionnaire.

The way to hook it up would be given to me by the third party, yes?

Thanks for this. I'll look into it. Luckily I can at least do a WordPress site!
 

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
The way to hook it up would be given to me by the third party, yes?

Thanks for this. I'll look into it. Luckily I can at least do a WordPress site!

If you're PDF solution has an API it should have functionality to create the PDF through a call. You can then make a call to that with the relevant information.

Good luck!
 
If you're PDF solution has an API it should have functionality to create the PDF through a call. You can then make a call to that with the relevant information.

Good luck!

I'm looking at a few plugins that accomplish this. Should be doable using a service called Webmerge. Thanks for the help! I'm sure I'll have many more questions as I build a minimum viable product...
 

smuf

Member
Any of you switched from ruby SASS to LibSass yet?

I've been on the fence about it for a while. I now use Compass with a bunch of plugins to get the job done (compiling through gulp) but it can really bring compilation time down to a crawl.
 

grmlin

Member
LibSass is unfortunately not there yet if you use other libraries... for me susy and breakpoint. Both use SASS features still not implemented in LibSass. The day libsass is feature complete can't come soon enough.

We stopped using compass (sooooo slow) and switched to autoprefixer. Much more natural and future proof.
 

smuf

Member
LibSass is unfortunately not there yet if you use other libraries... for me susy and breakpoint. Both use SASS features still not implemented in LibSass. The day libsass is feature complete can't come soon enough.

We stopped using compass (sooooo slow) and switched to autoprefixer. Much more natural and future proof.

I use compass mostly for sprite generation and vertical rhythm mixins. There's a lot of plugins I use, the main ones being breakpoint+singularity grid.

Autoprefixing is included in my Gulp workflow since the Compass method is indeed very cumbersome.
 

grmlin

Member
Yeah, compass sprites are a big deal. Didn't need them last time, but did not search for a proper replacement yet...
 

jokkir

Member
When creating a responsive website, I should be avoiding px if possible, right? I've been using em instead of px and was wondering if this was right.
 

grmlin

Member
I use rem for almost everything. You don't have to deal with inheritance problems of em but get the same fully flexible layouts. Very nice!

I use sass and some helper functions though, so that I can continue to use px (from designs etc) writing my css.


Code:
.foo {
  @include size(margin, 10px 0 20px);
}

Best thing is, if you have to support ancient browsers (IE8) it's all safe when you output the px-values, too.
 

GtwoK

Member
I'm kinda struggling here with how to accomplish something. I've been coding random little projects in java and other assorted languages since I was little (everything I know is self-taught), but I normally ended up giving up when I encountered I problem that I couldn't figure out. However, this is my first real site that I actually want to finish, so if possible would anybody be able to point me in the right direction?

I'm wondering if there's some sort of js library that might be able to help me here. I've tried accomplishing this a few different ways but there's always some sort of browser compatibility issues. Stack Overflow question have gone unanswered :/.

Essentially, I want to have a circle/iris wipe type thing happen when something is clicked on, to wipe it to white. Then the thing will expand to fill the screen, and iris wipe again to the new image.

I got it working perfectly in Chrome using this method, but it's all fucky in FF and Safari. (here's a video).

Then I tried another method, using the scale method in jQuery UI, which works great, but it's impossible to do it with the initial bordered circle you saw in the first video (jQuery UI's scale effect doesn't play nice with borders). However, no matter what I can't keep the damn circle centered in the box, except in FF.

So now I'm stuck. I know asking for help coding on here is probably a bit of a faux pas, but when Stack Overflow refuses to help, I've kinda got no idea where to turn. Any advice or ideas from anyone? Any libraries or plugins you might know of that could accomplish this seemingly simple task?
 

Nelo Ice

Banned
So is it just me or is css a pita to pick up? Like right now I'm doing my first personal project. Currently trying to make a simple web page for theme park news and basing it off a current site.

I picked up on html fairly quickly. But for css , I mainly picked up on what all the selectors and stuff did and how they effect things.

It's taken me a while to pick up on how to position and size everything. Learning on treehouse has only explained what everything did but not how they got there. IE, I've had to figure out else on parent containers, floating correctly, etc. It's def going to take me awhile to get responsive design down due to this. Luckily a made a friend and he's been helping me with all this since otherwise I would have no idea how to position and size everything correctly.

Besides those issues I'm definitely enjoying learning all this. I've only been at it for just about a month now. I find it crazy that I'm even attempting to build a simple web page on my own that quickly. Was intimidating starting with a blank slate but drawing up a wireframe and coding step by step has definitely helped.
 
So is it just me or is css a pita to pick up? Like right now I'm doing my first personal project. Currently trying to make a simple web page for theme park news and basing it off a current site.

I picked up on html fairly quickly. But for css , only I picked up on what all the selectors and stuff did and how they effect things.

It's taken me a while to pick up on how to position and size everything. Learning on treehouse has only explained what they everything did but not how they got there. Luckily a made a friend and he's been helping me with all this since otherwise I would have no idea how to position and size everything correctly.

Short answer: yes.

Slightly longer answer: CSS3 selectors are powerful and easy to use, but they require a solid HTML structure and still the vanilla CSS syntax lefts you with lots of repeated code. Then there's the vendor prefixes, IE8 hacks, IE6 hacks, the Chrome hacks for that one version that just rendered black borders as pink
okay, that last one never happened...
. Luckily, there are preprocessors and postprocessors such as SASS, LESS and PostCSS that improve the syntax and automatically handle most of the painful things for you.

That said, before you dive into the world of let's say LESS, you need to have a solid foundation on plain CSS to make it truly useful.
 

Nelo Ice

Banned
Short answer: yes.

Slightly longer answer: CSS3 selectors are powerful and easy to use, but they require a solid HTML structure and still the vanilla CSS syntax lefts you with lots of repeated code. Then there's the vendor prefixes, IE8 hacks, IE6 hacks, the Chrome hacks for that one version that just rendered black borders as pink
okay, that last one never happened...
. Luckily, there are preprocessors and postprocessors such as SASS, LESS and PostCSS that improve the syntax and automatically handle most of the painful things for you.

That said, before you dive into the world of let's say LESS, you need to have a solid foundation on plain CSS to make it truly useful.

Ahh well glad to hear it's normal. Edited my post to add more details but yeah I was so lost on floats and why everything was a certain px, em, % etc. Then when my friend explained it was like a revelation. Now I have a better grasp of how to move things around and why elements are the sizes they are.
 

grmlin

Member
CSS is a mess and can only be mastered with lots of practice.
But you are a Lucky person, css today ist MUCH better than 5 years ago.


Personal tip: use BEM or some other method to structure your css.
 

Nelo Ice

Banned
CSS is a mess and can only be mastered with lots of practice.
But you are a Lucky person, css today ist MUCH better than 5 years ago.


Personal tip: use BEM or some other method to structure your css.

This?
http://csswizardry.com/2013/01/mindbemding-getting-your-head-round-bem-syntax/
https://en.bem.info/

Thanks for the tip. I was also wondering how to organize my css since right now it's organized in comment sections that I just copied from what I've learned but have no idea what to name em otherwise haha. That and it's not very structured like that.
 
This?
http://csswizardry.com/2013/01/mindbemding-getting-your-head-round-bem-syntax/
https://en.bem.info/

Thanks for the tip. I was also wondering how to organize my css since right now it's organized in comment sections that I just copied from what I've learned but have no idea what to name em otherwise haha. That and it's not very structured like that.

For another way of structuring, Mark Ottos CSS syntax guide is quite a bit simpler than BEM

http://codeguide.co/#css-syntax

It's used in Bootstrap (http://getbootstrap.com/), for example, which is the most popular front-end framework so it can't be all bad.
 

grmlin

Member
Yes! Forgot to add a link.

I do CSS for many years now, and beside technical improvements like sass or cooler features of modern css3, nothing helped me more to not get lost even in the largest projects.

The CSS is cut into small pieces, you can find everything in a second, it's easy to refactor and you don't have to deal with specifity because of nested CSS and inheritance.


I do the CSS naming conventions only though. Don't care for the rest yandex does with bem.
 

taoofjord

Member
I'm a beginner looking looking to become a web developer. So far, I've gone through the courses for HTML, CSS, JavaScript and Python at Codeacademy.com. I've enjoyed their course for the most part but they're really just introductions. Anyone have a recommendation on where to go next? Treehouse seems to be more in depth, is that the case? Or perhaps something like Thinkful?
 

Nelo Ice

Banned
I'm a beginner looking looking to become a web developer. So far, I've gone through the courses for HTML, CSS, JavaScript and Python at Codeacademy.com. I've enjoyed their course for the most part but they're really just introductions. Anyone have a recommendation on where to go next? Treehouse seems to be more in depth, is that the case? Or perhaps something like Thinkful?

I'm quite enjoying treehouse myself. I'm a beginner too and it's definitely helped me get a grasp on web development. Hasn't really gone in depth yet but I'm working on my own personal project but using treehouse to supplement.
 

Swig_

Member
Hey guys, I'm looking to see if I can determine what the "minimum" level of skill that would be required to start in a job as a web developer is.

I work in IT currently, and have done a few small webdev projects to help my department out, but outside of that, my job has little to do with webdev. I have been taking classes to learn on the side, so far those classes have been php and javascript. For example, the final project in my php class was to create a shopping cart program. I work with SQL, Unix/Linux and Apache in my current job. I have used Jquery a bit in my current javascript class, to create a live search that searches data pulled out of a json file.

Anyway, I think I'd like to look for jobs in this field, but I really don't know what would be expected as a "base level" of knowledge working as an entry level web developer. Any suggestions would be great.

I'd probably prefer to be more of a front-end developer rather than back-end, although I have a fair amount of experience with non-development related backend stuff. However, I would take a job as a backend developer if I felt comfortable with it.
 

ferr

Member
Hey guys, I'm looking to see if I can determine what the "minimum" level of skill that would be required to start in a job as a web developer is.

I work in IT currently, and have done a few small webdev projects to help my department out, but outside of that, my job has little to do with webdev. I have been taking classes to learn on the side, so far those classes have been php and javascript. For example, the final project in my php class was to create a shopping cart program. I work with SQL, Unix/Linux and Apache in my current job. I have used Jquery a bit in my current javascript class, to create a live search that searches data pulled out of a json file.

Anyway, I think I'd like to look for jobs in this field, but I really don't know what would be expected as a "base level" of knowledge working as an entry level web developer. Any suggestions would be great.

I'd probably prefer to be more of a front-end developer rather than back-end, although I have a fair amount of experience with non-development related backend stuff. However, I would take a job as a backend developer if I felt comfortable with it.

I interview developers all the time. For front-end devs, I want them to know the ins and outs of HTML/CSS/JS to include knowledge of popular libraries like jQuery, AngularJS, Bootstrap, etc. These libraries aren't a requirement or anything.. if someone is using an alternative JS library I'm unfamiliar with, but can describe what it is and why they use it, it's a huge plus.

Become obsessed with the following:
http://www.w3schools.com/css/default.asp
http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp
http://getbootstrap.com/css/ (and the js and components sections)
http://api.jquery.com/
https://angularjs.org/
http://www.bloggedbychris.com/2012/09/19/microsoft-exam-70-480-study-guide/ this is an excellent study guide for microsoft's HTML/CSS/JS exam. And having an MS cert on your resume wouldn't hurt, btw.
 

Word of advice on w3schools: even though they have fixed most of their errs, every single time you google something HTML/CSS/JS related and are about to enter w3schools, take the second link from the top instead (hell, hopefully the link is on the top these days): https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/, MDN. It's pretty much the de facto documentation of everything related to the front end.

There's also Web Platform Documentation here http://www.webplatform.org/ but it's still a bit lacking but growing strongly.
 

ferr

Member
Word of advice on w3schools: even though they have fixed most of their errs, every single time you google something HTML/CSS/JS related and are about to enter w3schools, take the second link from the top instead (hell, hopefully the link is on the top these days): https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/, MDN. It's pretty much the de facto documentation of everything related to the front end.

There's also Web Platform Documentation here http://www.webplatform.org/ but it's still a bit lacking but growing strongly.

Good point. Mozilla's site feels a lot more in depth. I think w3schools has come a long way these days, though, and I'm just used to it more, I guess.

Do you have any examples where you saw some errors, by the way? Or is it just lack of depth / presentation style? You're not the first person I've heard mention this.
 
Good point. Mozilla's site feels a lot more in depth. I think w3schools has come a long way these days, though, and I'm just used to it more, I guess.

Do you have any examples where you saw some errors, by the way? Or is it just lack of depth / presentation style? You're not the first person I've heard mention this.

Well, there was the whole http://www.w3fools.com/-movement with commitments from many "key" players in the field, which should say enough. But for personal matters, when W3Schools was still leading the "first page on the Google" statistics, people would learn old and obsolete information because the tutorials and such were getting outdated fast and still the false information was spreading. Then there were things like dubious certs and somehow trying to push themselves as authoritative source of w3 related stuff and so on.

And like the w3fools site states, the battle was eventually won (https://github.com/paulirish/w3fools/issues/50). I am not forbidding anyone from finding information from where it's available, or saying that you shouldn't or couldn't find it from W3Schools, and that the information wasn't better these days, but you know.

For tests, I surfed through the jQuery-stuff and like you said, there's a distinct lack of depth. The information was correct, but I feel that one could find the same information and much much more from jQuery Learning Center with the same effort :)
 
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