Question as someone who's been through this before: Why would someone withhold voting when it's not a finite resource and when they're for lynching on day 1?
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Werewolf! |OT| Making Animal Friends Is Awesome?
- Thread starter Palmer_v1
- Start date
Question as someone who's been through this before: Why would someone withhold voting when it's not a finite resource and when they're for lynching on day 1?
Xamtheking
Member
Because it can allow them to potentially vote someone into being lynched without any chance of retribution or rebuttal
Xamtheking
Member
I'm going to be busy for the end of Day 1
Woohoo
Woohoo
Votes carry weight. Some people don't like to throw weight around. Also holding your vote for when you're serious makes your vote carry more weight. Also it's instant majority lynch so the instant someone receives a majority, they're out; I think this is less of an issue in a big game like this but it's not unheard of for wolves to snipe people with mass votes.
Obviously I can't speak for anyone but myself but those are legitimate reasons why someone might hold off.
The majority argument that Xamtheking also makes definitely does not make sense to me in a game like this where we can see the quantity of the votes and where they're heading, but I can see the rest of the points.
Xamtheking
Member
Say there are 3 scum who each put a vote on Person X
But right before Day End, they revote onto Person Y
Up until that point, Person X might have seemed like a clear lynchee
Yeah vote sniping is less of an issue in a big game especially early on, but it is something we will eventually have to be cautious of as the game gets smaller.
Dude, we need 11 votes on someone for the majority to count right now. With your example, someone would already have 8 votes on them. I think it's safe to say that, at that point, withholding one's vote is understandable.
Xamtheking
Member
Not the day-ending majority
Like if Person X had 4 votes, including the scum, and was going to be lynched with that many votes, but then the scum switched their votes to Person Y at the last second, and Person Y had the most votes just before the day end
Voting is a finite resource. The more you throw your vote around, the less important it becomes.
Xamtheking
Member
I can't read
facepalm.gif
I didn't realize people wouldn't get lynched unless there was a majority
Way too much ToS
In terms of mindshare, I guess. But for one's vote to be important in the first place, the person themselves has to be important and relevant to the discussion.
What? No...
Nevermind, this point of discussion is useless and we've got 6 hours left.
Day 1 votes
septimus prime (0)
cabot 96 (158)
darryl (0)
robotninjahornets 99 (247)
quantumbro 153 (230)
fluxwavez 197 (365)
xamtheking 268 (289)
cabot (0)
terrabyte20xx 123 (260)
darryl 723 (735)
darryl 735 (783)
xamtheking 737 (757)
cornburrito (1)
makai 129
lollipop dave 175 (587)
andodalf 360 (449)
rolanderson (1)
quantumbro 150 (153)
greatlord tiger 325
cabot 575 (744)
batsnacks (1)
cabot 158 (204)
quantumbro 230 (249)
el topo 257
quantumbro 427 (731)
fluxwavez (2)
darryl 162 (723)
andodalf 449
lollipop dave 700 (778)
quantumbro 731
robotninjahornets (0)
cabot 204 (331)
quantumbro (0)
robotninjahornets 247 (330)
andodalf (1)
quantumbro 249 (427)
fluxwavez 365 (605)
septimus prime 429
ultron87 579 (776)
lollipop dave 593 (700)
darrly (0)
andodalf 259 (318)
timeaisis (0)
terrabyte20xx 260 (724)
cabot 331 (575)
fluxwavez 690 (781)
lollipop dave (1)
robotninjahornets 580
abdodalf (0)
lollipop dave 587 (593)
style (2)
batsnacks 594
fluxwavez 605 (690)
sophia 656
cornburrito 670 (687)
mattyg (2)
terrabyte20xx 724
cabot 744
xamtheking (4)
cornburrito 762
ultron87 776
lollipop dave 778
fluxwavez 781
ultron87 (1)
darryl 783
septimus prime (0)
darryl (0)
cabot (0)
cornburrito (1)
makai 129
rolanderson (1)
greatlord tiger 325
batsnacks (1)
el topo 257
fluxwavez (2)
andodalf 449
quantumbro 731
robotninjahornets (0)
quantumbro (0)
andodalf (1)
septimus prime 429
darrly (0)
timeaisis (0)
lollipop dave (1)
robotninjahornets 580
abdodalf (0)
style (2)
batsnacks 594
sophia 656
mattyg (2)
terrabyte20xx 724
cabot 744
xamtheking (4)
cornburrito 762
ultron87 776
lollipop dave 778
fluxwavez 781
ultron87 (1)
darryl 783
Xamtheking
Member
And now I'm busy until 5:20.
Woohoo
Woohoo
so, we're running out of time to make a decision.
My vote is going to either be on Style for the things I said earlier, or I'll sheep Darryl on ultron, or I'll vote septimus prime for 1)voting ando and 2) not having memorable reads, or I will consolidate on xan as a last resort. That's more or less in order of preference too.
My vote is going to either be on Style for the things I said earlier, or I'll sheep Darryl on ultron, or I'll vote septimus prime for 1)voting ando and 2) not having memorable reads, or I will consolidate on xan as a last resort. That's more or less in order of preference too.
No, but no way to fix it. Just trest your vote as -1.
Terrabyte20xx
Junior Wrestlemania XXX Champion
I would like to take this time, while we still have it, to talk about who we are going to Lynch.
Currently, the front runners, in terms of vote and mind share, are:
Darryl
FluxwaveZ
Style
Xamtheking
However, I would like to propose a fifth name to that list.
Submitted for your approval:
VOTE: Sophia
Why her? She has posted plentifully enough to keep from standing out, whiles simultaneously not saying anything definitive. She rarely takes hard stances, and is not one to actively seek out scum. These are the textbook definitions of how to play as Scum day one.
But most importantly, she has a gut read from me as town, and considering my track record of town gut reads, that means she has a high probability of being scum.
Currently, the front runners, in terms of vote and mind share, are:
Darryl
FluxwaveZ
Style
Xamtheking
However, I would like to propose a fifth name to that list.
Submitted for your approval:
VOTE: Sophia
Why her? She has posted plentifully enough to keep from standing out, whiles simultaneously not saying anything definitive. She rarely takes hard stances, and is not one to actively seek out scum. These are the textbook definitions of how to play as Scum day one.
But most importantly, she has a gut read from me as town, and considering my track record of town gut reads, that means she has a high probability of being scum.
GreatLord Tiger
Member
Xam are you voting for anyone? Or are you planning to make a last second vote?
I... reluctantly agree about the less suspicious part. I don't like that speed reading and "woops, misattributed" exchange that happened at all. I might remove my vote on him, but that still sticks out.
Here's one thing that may not matter, but it's language that I find weird from Lollipop Dave:
Like their vote is supposed to beget a bandwagon. Likely nothing, but I did want to point it out.
Lollipop Dave
Member
More to come is referring to me posting the next day ( it was time for me to sleep in GMT land )
Second one was response to people talking about bandwagon votes earlier on and because CB done the same vote right before me. If you look at a few posts before you can see I was watching Xam.
Also I don't really follow how can voting cabot is helping push the wolves agenda forward in the first place. No one was voting cabot except Darryl and it's not like Darryl gave reasons. Cabot never seemed to be in a place where they were at risk of eviction.
Gotcha; that was just a stream of consciousness note that has been disregarded after this.
I really don't think it's particularly nice to lynch a new player on the first day, my current vote for batsnacks was never meant to stick in case you are wondering, but that seems to be the way this day is going, no?
I don't want to throw my vote away, so obviously I'll have to decide soon.
I don't want to throw my vote away, so obviously I'll have to decide soon.
CornBurrito
Member
You make a valid point. Consider me convinced.
UNVOTE: Xamtheking
My vote will either be for Flux or Sophia.
VOTE: ultron87
This is not a confident vote. I don't think Xam is scum, I don't think darryl or flux are scum. Ultron has the null read. I'm going for the person who has most chance of being scum in my mind. I'm going for the person I am most unsure of.
I'm sorry if I am wrong, but I have to place a vote. This, to my mind, is the best vote of the available choices.
This is my final vote of the night. Good luck.
This is not a confident vote. I don't think Xam is scum, I don't think darryl or flux are scum. Ultron has the null read. I'm going for the person who has most chance of being scum in my mind. I'm going for the person I am most unsure of.
I'm sorry if I am wrong, but I have to place a vote. This, to my mind, is the best vote of the available choices.
This is my final vote of the night. Good luck.
I read it as Xam seeing Darryl starting up a new tree, and trying to get in on the ground floor assuming that Darryl had enough town influence to keep it going if he gave it an initial push. It would get someone lynched and then he and the other wolves could point the "fault" for it at Darryl instead of one of their own.
Then, when that didn't work out, he had to try and generate some sort of reason for his vote, finally falling back on being confused and new.
When I combine this with Xam having that weird post where he said he is suspicious of everyone but also is good with me and it feels like he is trying to build links with players in an attempt to lay groundwork for what happens if he ever flips wolf.
The bandwagon strikes me as the oddest part. Four people jumped on him rather quickly. Dave and Ultron particular stand out.
I'm sticking with my vote on Style for now. I believe in what I said earlier in that I don't feel he'll be beneficial to the town in the long run. He's harassed players, he couldn't answer a simple question, he intends to make his vote at the last second in a game where it's instant lynch on majority vote. Even if he flips town, we have no reason to keep him on.
Quite a lot of players can fit under this same description. Sophia has one scum tell, in that she complained that I was making the thread hard to read. Which is true, but it is also something I complained about before as mafia in other games. Hard to really explain why it is scummy - there are no stakes for Sophia? They are unattached to the outcome of the discussion? I made some awful posts back there but nobody was talking beforehand, so this seems like complaining that discussion started happening but in a way masked as town that is difficult to call out.
Xamtheking
Member
Im just gonna chill
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
One thing I think is important to remember at this point is that the wolves have their own forum to talk in at all times. Meaning, they can discuss if they think jumping on a vote is a good idea, who should do it, and so on. Meaning, unless everyone starts voting one way, it's very unlikely there's going to be more than one wolf in a bandwagon. And even then it's not a guarantee.
I liked terrabyte's post about Sophia and thought it was a good contribution but I would rather evict Style or an Ando voter today. I feel confident we will find wolves on Ando.
CornBurrito
Member
Meta thinking is dangerous though. If we assume werewolves won't vote as a unit, we can be easily led astray by them.
Only thing that stands out to me from Sophia is the stint of trying to really focus on what happened with roles during the night that prevented a kill. Knowing that info doesn't really help the town and it feels like "on the sly" role fishing and saying stuff that keeps your post count up but doesn't really comment on what is going on during the day. It all adds up to a decent scum move.
I'd be okay with going with that option if people buy Xam's explanation. In re-reading the whole of his posts I can buy the new player jitters excuse. (Though that excuse will stop being valid pretty quickly.)
I'd be okay with going with that option if people buy Xam's explanation. In re-reading the whole of his posts I can buy the new player jitters excuse. (Though that excuse will stop being valid pretty quickly.)
CornBurrito
Member
I mean I discussed that crap too, because it is interesting. It isn't like the wolves aren't discussing it themselves, and I really doubt a clueless town player will provide any magical insight that can't also be figured out by the wolves. True there's a risk of a PR giving too much away, but I don't think anyone is that careless.
Sophia, huh... I lean towards Town, but bringing her up is interesting. There are several players who haven't taken any hard stances and have remained relentlessly neutral throughout Day 1; she's one of them. Indeed, she also hasn't attempted to actively seek out werewolves. But at least she's voted.
Timeaisis stands out even less than she does and has laid just as low, I don't know why we're singling her out. If suspicion on her is valid, so is equal suspicion on Timeaisis.
Timeaisis stands out even less than she does and has laid just as low, I don't know why we're singling her out. If suspicion on her is valid, so is equal suspicion on Timeaisis.
Septimus Prime
Member
First thing's first:
UNVOTE: Andodalf
Personally, I don't think voting based on level activity is all that productive. I'm not getting a heavy scum vibe from anyone right now.
UNVOTE: Andodalf
Personally, I don't think voting based on level activity is all that productive. I'm not getting a heavy scum vibe from anyone right now.
Why not? You think that someone trying to actively seek out werewolves and providing as much information as possible is just as helpful towards the town as someone who provides nothing in an attempt to not stand out and coast by?
Xamtheking
Member
What if a power role wants to lay as low as possible to try to stay alive?
Sounds like a real helpful power role, then.
I will say this. I will not use the excuse of newbie jitters to justify my mistake early on, and I would hope that people would not use that same justification to not vote against me. I played poorly, plain and simple.
No offense, but I feel like you're giving me an awfully large amount of lenience Flux. You had several chances to push me like you did others, but every time the opportunity came up, you backed off. Why?
Laying as low as possible is not a very good survival strat
Also in case clarification is necessary, I am voting Septimus Prime for being unmemorable, not un-active (in addition to being an Ando voter). It doesn't take many posts to make an impression if you're trying.
I've been curious about Sophia's voting for a bit now.
She's voting on me not because she thinks I'm scum, but because I'm not useful for the village? Why would you do that. We've already lost one villager, are you going to sacrifice someone you don't even think is scum?
This isn't even vote sniping or a threat seeing as she voted on me when I had the majority of the votes. And it happened after Andodalf got modkilled, so she's willingly open to loose two villagers on one day. Yeah that seems pretty fishy to me.
She's voting on me not because she thinks I'm scum, but because I'm not useful for the village? Why would you do that. We've already lost one villager, are you going to sacrifice someone you don't even think is scum?
This isn't even vote sniping or a threat seeing as she voted on me when I had the majority of the votes. And it happened after Andodalf got modkilled, so she's willingly open to loose two villagers on one day. Yeah that seems pretty fishy to me.
CornBurrito
Member
That's sort of the hard part about playing a Power Role. You want to hide you are a PR from the mafia, which often means hiding you are a PR from the town. Which means you are hiding something, which is the same thing scum does. So you may end up playing more as if you were scum than town.
The trick is to act like you are town. Which is easier than scum pretending they are town, since scum know the alignments of every player while the PR don't.
Septimus Prime
Member
Right. The best way to lie low is not to have the least amount of activity, as is evidenced by the amount of players trying to throw suspicion upon the least-active players right now. It seems like it's actually the opposite, since the people who are posting the most are considered "actively town," which is also nonsense.Laying as low as possible is not a very good survival strat
Also in case clarification is necessary, I am voting Septimus Prime for being unmemorable, not un-active (in addition to being an Ando voter). It doesn't take many posts to make an impression if you're trying.
That said, I'm town.