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[Jack Scofield]

I'm officially a believer in the "MIB is William" theory. The thing that sealed it for me was when Ford said "now and then," which cut to William at "then." Also, how the MiB said he thought they would have retired that character by now.

 

[Makai]

The show doesn't make as much sense otherwise. Dolores says she feels like she's trapped in a dream and she doesn't know when she is. The techs say hosts relive their memories..MIB recognizes the Wyatt captive because he met her when she was the intro sexbot in the train boarding area. Bernard encourages Dolores to seek out the maze "out of order" because he's actually Arnold in the past. It's all a sure thing at this point and I'm glad I was aboard in episode 2 when it was still the crazy train. 8)

 

[SynthFetish]

K. Because the signs are really all there lol. This is the worst kept "secret" the show has had. Even Bernardbot had less tells.

If I'm not wrong, I'll probably brag a bit.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

I don't buy into the theory that William is MiB and we're seeing two timelines side by side.

Series opened with MiB attacking Deloris's family, same role she is in when William meets her.

With all the talk about hosts being reassigned I find it diffcult to believe she's still in the same role after 30 years.

I think people have latched onto this idea because it's interesting, but it breaks to many plot points. Just don't buy it.

Feel free to quote me when I'm wrong.

The theory goes around that with the idea that Dolores is pretty much in the present, but remembering the past as she goes, so the events are happening to a Dolores that had the encounter with MiB in the pilot.

 

[duckroll]

If I'm not wrong, I'll probably brag a bit.

Sure. No one would stop you! Seriously though, it's reaaaaaaaaaaally obvious. They've been dropping hints since ep2, and every episode now the hints get thicker and thicker.

 

[Operations]

The theory goes around that with the idea that Dolores is pretty much in the present, but remembering the past as she goes, so the events are happening to a Dolores that had the encounter with MiB in the pilo.

The only thing that bothers me is Dolores having flashbacks during the William's timeline (which would imply a third timeline). Other than that, yeah it's pretty much confirmed.

 

[SynthFetish]

The only thing that bothers me is Dolores having flashbacks during the William's timeline (which would imply a third timeline). Other than that, yeah it's pretty much confirmed.

That's another reason why I don't buy into the theory.

 

[duckroll]

The only thing that bothers me is Dolores having flashbacks during the William's timeline (which would imply a third timeline). Other than that, yeah it's pretty much confirmed.

Why does that bother you? There are multiple things Dolores are seeing. The town with the church is a testing area during the beta before the park opened. It is where they first trained the hosts. Something happens there and Arnold dies. Ford literally buries the town along with its secrets and opens the park to the public. Dolores feels drawn back to the place, and William is the one who actually takes her there, but they don't get to finish their journey. She remains trapped in her loop for 30 years until MiB returns to reawaken her. And she starts following Arnold's calling again, retracing her steps, but because she is remembering now, as she journeys through unfamiliar territory her only anchor is the one time she traveled it before - with William. Her memories are triggered by people and places she has encountered before in the past.

We know that in the entire Arnold storyline, Dolores is the lone witness left who knows exactly what happened. She is the last person to speak to Arnold before he dies. So it is already established that as far as what the show would need to show us eventually, there are these events. There is no question now that William's story is happening in the past. We have factual confirmation from the show that he is in a time that is inconsistent with the present. Ford already dug up the town.

 

[Platy]

- Is William MiB?
- What are the different time periods Dolores sees and how do they line up?
- Who is MiB today?
- What is in the 35 years of data Delos wants to extract?
- Does Maeve's escape plan work?
- Who is Arnold?
- What is the nature of Ford's new narrative?
- What does the maze mean?
- What happened to Elsie?

All these questions will be answered by the end of the season finale.

...do you remember it is a series by the creators of LOST, right ?

No way they will answer that much in 2 episodes

 

[duckroll]

...do you remember it is a series by the creators of LOST, right ?

It's not. Are you thinking of the other HBO show The Leftovers? This is a series created by the creator of Person of Interest and his wife.

 

[Skeletron]

Why does that bother you? There are multiple things Dolores are seeing. The town with the church is a testing area during the beta before the park opened. It is where they first trained the hosts. Something happens there and Arnold dies. Ford literally buries the town along with its secrets and opens the park to the public. Dolores feels drawn back to the place, and William is the one who actually takes her there, but they don't get to finish their journey. She remains trapped in her loop for 30 years until MiB returns to reawaken her. And she starts following Arnold's calling again, retracing her steps, but because she is remembering now, as she journeys through unfamiliar territory her only anchor is the one time she traveled it before - with William. Her memories are triggered by people and places she has encountered before in the past.

Why does she keep seeing herself dying while retracing her steps though. Like being shot at the house or face down in the water? It's like she's taken this path many times before.

 

[Corpekata]

The only thing that bothers me is Dolores having flashbacks during the William's timeline (which would imply a third timeline). Other than that, yeah it's pretty much confirmed.

Well, we already know that, pretty much, with the flashback to the training village this episode.

Though I'd say we're still only really seeing 2 timeframes, where we're following characters for a length of time. The rest are just flashes (like that moment, or Ford's flashback).

 

[duckroll]

Why does she keep seeing herself dying while retracing her steps though. Like being shot at the house or face down in the water? It's like she's taken this path many times before.

Okay, that's a good point. It's possible she has tried to retrace these steps before but never got all the way again, without someone with her. She also sees herself in the parade in Pariah, walking alone.

 

[Joni]

We know there are three major events:

- The incident where Arnold dies. - Church flashback scenes presumably.
- The incident where Man In Black saves the park. - William with Dolores if the theory is confirmed.
- The incident where the robots are gaining sentience. - Reveries, Maeve, Man In Black With Teddy.

We know the first happens before the park opens, where Dolores might have played a major role. We know the second happened about thirty years ago. We know the third is happening now.

 

[Platy]

It's not. Are you thinking of the other HBO show The Leftovers? This is a series created by the creator of Person of Interest and his wife.

Maybe it is just the JJ Abrams fingerprint on this

 

[duckroll]

Maybe it is just the JJ Abrams fingerprint on this

He literally did jack shit on this show creatively. Really.

 

[greendomo's ghost]

We were also told that hosts memories are so vivid they seem real. Delores has the fragmentation affecting her so as she is in the present retracing her journey with William, she is experiencing multiple memories from multiple times as one. Hence why she sees herself I guess.

 

[Gunslinger]

Yeah I was with this show until the whole story line with meave just became super dumb. You telling me in a high tech facility like this a robot is making drastic changes to the system like that and no one notice? ok....The same robot just sneak into the behavior room and sliced some guys neck. You are telling me in a facility like this there are no cameras? yeah sure....This is like worse than steven segal movie logic lol. Show just became from amazing to super dumb lol. Also can't those two just jump her and shut her down. Or better yet report to a security? This is as believable as steven segal acting as a action hero these days lol. This whole dumb plotline ruined the show for me IMO.

 

[Platy]

Yeah I was with this show until the whole story line with meave just became super dumb. You telling me in a high tech facility like this a robot is making drastic changes to the system like that and no one notice? ok....The same robot just sneak into the behavior room and sliced some guys neck. You are telling me in a facility like this there are no cameras? yeah sure....This is like worse than steven segal movie logic lol. Show just became from amazing to super dumb lol. Also can't those two just jump her and shut her down. Or better yet report to a security? This is as believable as steven segal acting as a action hero these days lol. This whole dumb plotline ruined the show for me IMO.

Maybe Anthony Hopkins is secretly controlling her and he erases all the traces of her shit

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Yeah I was with this show until the whole story line with meave just became super dumb. You telling me in a high tech facility like this a robot is making drastic changes to the system like that and no one notice? ok....The same robot just sneak into the behavior room and sliced some guys neck. You are telling me in a facility like this there are no cameras? yeah sure....This is like worse than steven segal movie logic lol. Show just became from amazing to super dumb lol. Also can't those two just jump her and shut her down. Or better yet report to a security? This is as believable as steven segal acting as a action hero these days lol. This whole dumb plotline ruined the show for me IMO.

It got sloppy at Maeve's part but there are still a lot to appreciate in westworld

As a personal example, Hopkins' chats with Bernard (both at the beginning and in the middle) were thoughtful and well delivered, they really lifted the episode for me

 

[Platy]

- Is William MiB?
- What are the different time periods Dolores sees and how do they line up?
- Who is MiB today?
- What is in the 35 years of data Delos wants to extract?
- Does Maeve's escape plan work?
- Who is Arnold?
- What is the nature of Ford's new narrative?
- What does the maze mean?
- What happened to Elsie?

...didn't they answered that one already ?
The flashback when the now android asks if he killed more people

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

...didn't they answered that one already ?
The flashback when the now android asks if he killed more people

Her death wasn't shown. Maybe she just got knocked out unconscious and then left somewhere in a basement... And then, we haven't gotten around to find out if we will get roboelsie either :3

 

[Rentahamster]

A bad movie?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0


fake edit: Holy fuck that was 4 years ago? Goddammit where is the time going.

 

[Paganmoon]

Her death wasn't shown. Maybe she just got knocked out unconscious and then left somewhere in a basement... And then, we haven't gotten around to find out if we will get roboelsie either :3

I still think the host being built in Ford's basement is Host-Elsie.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

I still think the host being built in Ford's basement is Host-Elsie.

that's what everyone is saying now since we aren't getting robotheresa :3

i think it's another character entirely, maybe maeve or dolores

WHY NOT

 

[okdakor]

So... where is "present time" Dolores ?

 

[duckroll]

So... where is "present time" Dolores ?

Very close to the excavated town in Ford's new narrative.

 

[Corpekata]

Robo Elsie actually makes a bit of sense.

Diet Hemsworth is going to investigate Bernard clearly. He's going to figure out the truth, Elsie is dead, become convinced Bernard had something to do with both deaths, make a fool out of himself publicly accusing him, and then Robo Elsie will walk in and put a pin in that subplot for the season.

Plus, they are running out of characters in the home base, and I can't imagine both Felix and Sylvester make it through the season (at least one is dying or getting their ass fired).

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I'm still trying to pin MIB down.

His wife was so terrified of him, to the point of killing herself when he never... Did anything. His daughter hates him. Was he emotionally abusive or something? Or just hollow on the inside?

Cause even if he's William, I don't see how he goes from point A to B short of him brutally murdering Logan or something. Dolores could "betray" him, but... She's a robot. Would it be so crushing as to completely turn him into a hollow violent shell of his former self?

And it feels like William going bad is happening too quick. He obviously asphyxiated the dying Confederado

 

[Corpekata]

And it feels like William going bad is happening too quick. He obviously asphyxiated the dying Confederado

We clearly see him breathing just as Dolores returns to them.

 

[Future]

Very close to the excavated town in Ford's new narrative.

Yeah. Dolores is seen repeatedly reliving memories. That's why sometimes she's alone, or sees things before they happen, or sees herself, or sees young MIB. She's making the same journey again as she has done again and again.

The show isn't good at explain how it's possible though. They show her go through loops day after day. In William timeline I suppose since she is with a guest, the park is ok with her separating from her loop. But it present day.... wouldn't park attendants see her gone and track her down?

One q: is it possible MIB isn't William but instead Logan? Has anything been done to prove he couldn't be Logan. It would go with the narrative of being decent in the real world by an asshole in the park

Also on the topic of robo Elsie: that would imply Ford DID tell Bernard to kill her. Isn't it more likely that Arnold did it instead with some dormant code that all the hosts have?

 

[Corpekata]

I'd say the scene implies it was Ford that ordered it given the question Bernard asks.

Granted, I'm not really sure it makes sense for Arnold or Ford to have Bernard kill Elsie. Seems like a huge risk of a valuable and highly visible asset when it's a task that could easily be assigned to any other host presumably by either party. But I think I'll just give them the dramatic license for that.

 

[Ghost]

I'm still trying to pin MIB down.

His wife was so terrified of him, to the point of killing herself when he never... Did anything. His daughter hates him. Was he emotionally abusive or something? Or just hollow on the inside?

Cause even if he's William, I don't see how he goes from point A to B short of him brutally murdering Logan or something. Dolores could "betray" him, but... She's a robot. Would it be so crushing as to completely turn him into a hollow violent shell of his former self?

And it feels like William going bad is happening too quick. He obviously asphyxiated the dying Confederado

I think they've hinted (Via Logan) that William is holding himself back, it's not that the park is going to do something to him that makes him a psychopath, it's that he always has been and we're going to see the moment when he first realises it. I think it's going to be killing Dolores, expecting to feel guilty, but not feeling anything.




The Elsie death confuses me a bit though, surely she was doing Ford a solid by exposing the data theft, maybe he just figured it was as good a time as any to replace her with a Host regardless?

 

[duckroll]

Bernard is the only host in the park who would have an excuse and authority to go to the place Elsie was, since no one knows he is a host. It makes sense for Arnold to use him. Doesn't make sense for Ford because there's no moivation. Bernard simply remembered something and I think the scene suggests he remembered something Ford isn't aware of. Just like when Arnold made young Robert kill the dog host.

 

[Ghost]

Bernard is the only host in the park who would have an excuse and authority to go to the place Elsie was, since no one knows he is a host. It makes sense for Arnold to use him. Doesn't make sense for Ford because there's no moivation. Bernard simply remembered something and I think the scene suggests he remembered something Ford isn't aware of. Just like when Arnold made young Robert kill the dog host.

Oh yeah forgot about the dog, that does make sense.

 

[Corpekata]

What does authority really matter? It's not like it was a heavily guarded area, and if Arnold can take control that directly, any precautions like not being able to see the building should be overriden given this hyposthesis has a host murdering a person.

Bernard's the last person to see her alive, the last to talk to her, and would be missing an alibi. The risks of him doing it outweigh the rewards. But like I said, I think that was more just a dramatic touch. The only practical reason I can see Arnold choosing Bernard specifically is if he did it to actually put the spotlight on Bernard (if he is after all a host made in his image, it probably doesn't sit well with him).

Ford has no motive, but neither really does Arnold as far as we know yet. Not likely he would be too keen on Delos corporate getting data either.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Bernard is the only host in the park who would have an excuse and authority to go to the place Elsie was, since no one knows he is a host. It makes sense for Arnold to use him. Doesn't make sense for Ford because there's no moivation. Bernard simply remembered something and I think the scene suggests he remembered something Ford isn't aware of. Just like when Arnold made young Robert kill the dog host.

BRING BACK THE DOG, FORD >:O

he promised he would fix it, didn he >:O

 

[shira]

Just noticed its the lady who couldn't dance in the white church era

 

[newtypepilot]

Just noticed its the lady who couldn't dance in the white church era

no that would be the bandit with the snake tattoo.

 

[duckroll]

BRING BACK THE DOG, FORD >:O

he promised he would fix it, didn he >:O

Ford lied, Westworld died.

 

[shira]

no that would be the bandit with the snake tattoo.

full body wrapping snake tattoo my ass and color me stupid

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Ford lied, Westworld died.

NOOOOOOOOO

...

What dog?

 

[dan2026]

The dumb and dumber tech guys have to be robots. Nothing else would explain why they continued to elevate the super dangerous robo-hooker to the level they did.

 

[Jacob4815]

So Maeve cuts the MIB because of the maze symbol outside? The maze is a place where hosts can kill humans?

 

[Charles Brandon]

Did anyone notice that, when we saw the flashback to Ford and Barnard 'handling" Maeve following the death of her 'daughter', when Ford commented on her fragmentation, there was a map of her brain on his tablet, which was the maze.

 

[RocknRola]

Hopefully Maeve's plotline pays off in the end. I think that maybe she gained a bit too much power too soon (and without any real "obstacles" too).

 

[shira]

Did anyone notice that, when we saw the flashback to Ford and Barnard 'handling" Maeve following the death of her 'daughter', when Ford commented on her fragmentation, there was a map of her brain on his tablet, which was the maze.

yepp all over reddit

The kid hosts on this show are fucking weird:
Robert Ford junior
Lawrence daughter
Maeve daughter

I imagine them to combine and form Wyatt transformers style in episode 10.

 

[RocknRola]

yepp all over reddit

The kid hosts on this show are fucking weird:
Robert Ford junior
Lawrence daughter
Maeve daughter

I imagine them to combine and form Wyatt transformers style in episode 10.

Considering the leaked bits of plot for the next Transformers movie that would actually be a somewhat acceptable tie-in to that Universe!

 

[elrechazado]

So... where is "present time" Dolores ?

She's wyatt

 

[Springhettios]

She's wyatt

Whoa!! That would be nuts!!