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[More_Badass]

I have to say...the way Westworld shuffles our perspective of characters in just a few episodes is quite masterful

Consider where we were by the end of the pilot

The MIB is this bastard, who probably raped or tortured Delores, and does these sick violent acts to hosts. Ford seems like someone who cares for the hosts, perhaps even opposed to the clinical nature of how Delos treats them; he gives them memories, talks with old hosts while management just discards them in cold storage.

Now the MIB seems like a pretty good guy, who helps and saves people, and his violent acts come across less as disturbing and sick and more like the behavior of very skilled and experienced player, who knows how to exploit the design of the game. And Ford is seeming more and more suspicious and enigmatic, from his mysterious history with Arnold to his God-like control over the park that even seems to unnerve his employees

 

[Charles Brandon]

Ford is also very quick to point out to Bernard that the droids are not real and do not feel anything. Barnard clearly thinks they are becoming intelligent.

 

[Corpekata]

I don't know if I'd say the MiB comes across as a good guy in his scenes. Yeah, he does a few friendly things but they are all in service of his larger goal. Sure, he does seem less sick and twisted than in the 1st episode but now he just seems more obsessive and perhaps even a little pathetic.

 

[Neoweee]

I really hope they aren't going with multiple timelines. It's not interesting.

Multiple timelines isn't a good descriptor, and is kind of conflated with a bunch of time travel BS.

This is just a secret flashback. Multiple characters on the show are having difficulty distinguishing past events from the present. It's already happening, but we don't know if it is extending as a multi-episode twist.

 

[More_Badass]

I don't know if I'd say the MiB comes across as a good guy in his scenes. Yeah, he does a few friendly things but they are all in service of his larger goal. Sure, he does seem less sick and twisted than in the 1st episode but now he just seems more obsessive and perhaps even a little pathetic.

But we know he is a good person outside the park, which kind of puts his acfions in the park in a different light IMO

 

[Corpekata]

But we know he is a good person outside the park, which kind of puts his acfions in the park in a different light IMO

Don't know about that. We know he has a company or charity that helps people, but that doesn't mean he's doing good out of the goodness of his heart. Isn't unheard of for shitty people to also give to charities for ulterior motives (like good PR) or have one in their name (Trump Foundation, for example).

I mean he fucking snapped at that one guy. If he were some immersed roleplayer I'd kind of get it, the guy would be breaking the illusion, but we've seen MiB doesn't give any fucks about it in general, always speaking it terms of like a metagamer that is viewing things from a mechanical point of view.

 

[Paganmoon]

But we know he is a good person outside the park, which kind of puts his acfions in the park in a different light IMO

That his public persona and image is that of a very good person, but really, in his private life, he's a sociopathic dick? Doesn't seem far fetched, and in no way makes him a good person.

I mean, he did threaten to cut the throat of the guy who approached him, and I for one, believed him when he said he would, good guy MiB

But I do agree that my view on Ford switched from the early episodes (for instance his drinking with that old model), where he seemed to actually care for the hosts, to these later episodes where they mean very little to him, other than being his puppets.

 

[More_Badass]

Don't know about that. We know he has a company or charity that helps people, but that doesn't mean he's doing good out of the goodness of his heart. Isn't unheard of for shitty people to also give to charities for ulterior motives (like good PR) or have one in their name (Trump Foundation, for example).

True, but in fiction, occam's razor tends to be in effect. If people know him as a famous recognizable philanthropist who has saved people through his foundation, then he probably is until proven otherwise

 

[royalan]

Yeah, I'm not willing to call MiB is good guy by any stretch yet. He did rape the main character in the first episode and imply that he's done it repeatedly. Oh, and kill a female host in front of her husband and daughter in episode 3.

It's also implied he's assaulted Maeve in a different role.

His goals seem completely selfish. He wants to reach a different level of the game. Telling the hosts that he'll set them free seems to be his angle to manipulate them. But, regardless of his motives, he clearly enjoys being cruel and sadistic (another reason I do not buy the MiB=William theory. It would take more than a singular event for me to believe such a drastic character flip).

Ford did come off a bit menacing last episode, but it was largely protectionist. He doesn't want outside forces fucking with the world he's created. And he does generally display affection for the hosts. Maybe not with the level of humanity Bernard does, it might be closer to the type of affection a slave owner would have for his favored slaves (which made the scene on the plantation all the more fitting to me), but that's still a form of affection.

 

[More_Badass]

Yeah, I'm not willing to call MiB is good guy by any stretch yet. He did rape the main character in the first episode and imply that he's done it repeatedly. Oh, and kill a female host in front of her husband and daughter in episode 3.

It's also implied he's assaulted Maeve in a different role.

1) I doubt he raped her. I'm surprised people still assume he did

2) We feel that way because the show has humanized the hosts. To him and experienced players, they're just NPCs. No different or indicative of morality than wiping out Megaton in Fallout or killing a shopkiller so I can get items without paying or putting people on train tracks in RDR for an achievement. They're not real. They're not husband, wife, and daughter. They have no love or emotions for eachother. That's how the average person in the park would think

Does going on a rampage through Los Santos make the player a bad person?

 

[-griffy-]

But we know he is a good person outside the park, which kind of puts his acfions in the park in a different light IMO

That he may be a good person outside the park does not mean he isn't a heinous villain to the hosts of the park. (Also, having a foundation does not preclude him from being an asshole, as evidenced by his reaction to the guests who recognize him). I think that's probably the intent with his character. He may not even realize or care how his actions are perceived by the hosts, but that doesn't make it okay. To him he's just playing the game, and treating the hosts as the artificial means to an end they are intended, but we know the hosts are more than that. In that light, his actions are incredibly selfish and mean-spirited, and perhaps downright evil. And remember, the hosts he's been most "friendly" to are the most villainous, criminal hosts in the park.

I think we also need to think about it thematically and in relation to Ford's idea that the park doesn't let you find a new version of yourself but reveals who you already are and lets you embrace that, in which case MiB is someone who will do whatever he wants at the expense of any who get in his way.

 

[royalan]

1) I doubt he raped her. I'm surprised people still assume he did

2) We feel that way because the show has humanized the hosts. To him and experienced players, they're just NPCs. No different or indicative of morality than wiping out Megaton in Fallout or killing a shopkiller so I can get items without paying or putting people on train tracks in RDR for an achievement. They're not real. They're not husband, wife, and daughter. They have no love or emotions for eachother. That's how the average person in the park would think

Does going on a rampage through Los Santos make the player a bad person?

To the first point, there are two reasons I'm sure the implication is that MiB rapes Delores.

1) Of all the vile things MiB does on the show, whatever he does to Delores is so far the only thing he intentionally does in private."Evil man dragging woman off to room, fade-to-black" is a pretty standard implication of rape in film/television. Later we see this exact thing play out with a host in MiB's place, and it was fairly obvious in that instance that Delores was about to be raped.

2) The line he gives, "I don't pay for you to enjoy it." (I think?) implies sexual assault to me. If he was about to scalp her, there'd be no need to clarify that she's not about to enjoy this. Of course she's not.

 

[Paganmoon]

Considering the hosts are so lifelike, you'd need to be a sociopath to be able to do the things people are doing imo. Noticed how most all real people who shoot hosts are sort of dicks, or even have crazy eyes?

I don't think it can in any way be compared to games, where there is a clear distinction between what's real and what's not. This is veering closer to VR and it's implications on violence, and such though, for instance, I can play Raw Data on the Vive shooting up humanoid robots (clearly looking like robots), I can play zombie shooters on the same, but I cannot see myself playing a game where I'm shooting lifelike people in VR, specially if they can emote well, and this is a few steps further up the tech-chain than VR.

Anyway, even conceding that "it's just a game to him" he's needlessly violent and sadistic, and does not exactly treat other players well. So no, I don't think he can be considered a good guy in any sense, just cause he has a charity foundation.

Regarding Dolores, the dialog suggested it wasn't the first and only time he'd done what he done, and he said he liked it better when she resisted, not sure what other thing that could've even referred to than rape.

 

[Can Crusher]

I disagree, I think it's fun. Potentially, it's like they give you one piece of information at the end of the season (hopefully not the end of the show) that makes you look at everything that has gone before in a different light.

There's enough with the host's memories and loops, enough plot devices to go around. Let's focus on the big ideas at hand here.

My opinion.

 

[More_Badass]

Considering the hosts are so lifelike, you'd need to be a sociopath to be able to do the things people are doing imo. Noticed how most all real people who shoot hosts are sort of dicks, or even have crazy eyes?

I don't think it can in any way be compared to games, where there is a clear distinction between what's real and what's not. This is veering closer to VR and it's implications on violence, and such though, for instance, I can play Raw Data on the Vive shooting up humanoid robots (clearly looking like robots), I can play zombie shooters on the same, but I cannot see myself playing a game where I'm shooting lifelike people in VR, specially if they can emote well, and this is a few steps further up the tech-chain than VR.

I think the park had been around long enough and generations have been coming to the park for so long that the kind of misgivings you're talking about have long since passed.

Like you feel that way now about VR, but what about 20 years from now when you've been playing VR games with realistic graphics for years and you're accustomed to it

Westworld isn't some new thing in that world. It's old. People who were kids when they visited there on vacation now work there as employees. Do you think that kind of aversion would last long, last for generations, especially when those kids have known since they were young that it's just robots and it's not real?

Consider how Texas Chainsaw Massacre was banned and criticized at the time for being incredibly gory, but in fact is one of the slasher movies with the least blood and gore. It was shocking to audiences who never experienced it before, but today, its level of violence is tame compared to what's on TV like Hannibal and Walking Dead

 

[duckroll]

But we know he is a good person outside the park, which kind of puts his acfions in the park in a different light IMO

Good and bad aren't really useful descriptors in the context of Westworld though. The entire point of a fantasy setting is to allow someone to act out their desires without any consequences. The thing is, the park's simulation is so real, and the AI is so advanced, that it calls into question whether it is morally right to indulge in such fantasies in this way. That's the only morality in the context of the show. It doesn't matter what the characters are in the "real world" because the show isn't about that and it'll never matter to us.

 

[Charles Brandon]

There's enough with the host's memories and loops, enough plot devices to go around. Let's focus on the big ideas at hand here.

My opinion.

Okay

 

[Can Crusher]

Here's the thing... First the time you walk in that dressing room, maybe you get some thoughts, but everything is copastetic. Hell maybe you even pick the black hat because a white hat is corny. You go on some fetch quest, marvel at the A.I, have a thrill in a gunfight. Maybe you even bust a nut in some brothel.

How many times do you really need though, to fuck the unbelievable hot piece of ass in white, then choose the black hat because you believe you're a badass now, disrupt a narrative because you want to see if you can break the game, etc etc

I don't know man. I bet it would all feel so life like first time around, but how long until you realize you don't go there to respect the traffic signs... Because they are no longer real in your head.

Hell, I didn't block the exit door of a burger shop first time in GTA. But eventually I burned everybody inside.

 

[sammyCYBORG]

I'm enjoying this but it also feels a bit repetitive and I get a sort of Lost vibe from it, like it's setting up interesting ideas but won't go anywhere with it.

More likely to be a flop than not I think. Don't get the vibe it will be a top tier HBO show.

 

[Faddy]

That's nice. My only issue is that William looks nothing NOTHING like Ed Harris. But I suppose that sort of thing happens on TV all the time.

I think they actually have striking similarities.

Look at some Ed Harris mid 80s photos here https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2014/09/the-roles-of-a-lifetime-ed-harris.html

The blue eyes, the cut down the middle of the chin and similiar noses.

If the William/MiB theory is correct then I think casting have done as good a job as they could.

 

[Charles Brandon]

hmmm. I wouldn't say they were that close but certainly closer than I thought.

 

[RSTEIN]

That scene in the restaurant was AMAZING. That is all.

 

[Gozer the Gozerian]

That scene in the restaurant was AMAZING. That is all.

Ya, episode 4 in general was the turning point for me from "this show seems interesting" to "I'M IN!"

 

[Jasoneyu]

After this eps i am not so sure that William = MiB

When MiB first came to the Mexican village he remarked that he was never here before. Where as William was actually there with Deloras.

 

[Charles Brandon]

I thought Dolores said that

 

[Alpende]

Isn't the William flashback theory also debunked because all the robots he's interacting with are able to act so naturally?

If it really was a flashback to Westworld 30+ years ago, wouldn't the robots behave/move like Old Bill?

Yeah, I was just thinking about this. The droids probably looked different 30 years ago.

 

[RSTEIN]

Ya, episode 4 in general was the turning point for me from "this show seems interesting" to "I'M IN!"

Yeah and Hopkins clearly ain't just an old crusty dude.

- The chair.
- The display of power.
- The threats.
- THE FUCKING EXCAVATOR AT THE END.

Dude is serious business.

 

[Neoweee]

When MiB first came to the Mexican village he remarked that he was never here before. Where as William was actually there with Deloras.

If he commented that, it was a lie, because he exactly knew the scenario and NPC spawns like the back of his hand, including the reinforcements and the guy hiding behind the wall.

Yeah and Hopkins clearly ain't just an old crusty dude.

- The chair.
- The display of power.
- The threats.
- THE FUCKING EXCAVATOR AT THE END.

Dude is serious business.

Such a great scene. Creative, well-directed, well-acted, and perfectly demonstrates Ford's view of himself. And the Easter Egg of all of the farmhands being the rejected NPCs from Sizemore's Red River quest line.

 

[Lorcain]

I really hope there isn't a time travel loop story here with MiB and William. Just keep it a clean timeline with good character development and the mystery built around the park itself, and the park creators.

I really liked the scene when Maeve discovered that she had been hiding her sketches of the body shop techs under the floor boards for what seemed like 5 or 6 iterations of her daily loop. If the hosts are able to quickly pull their memories back after each memory wipe, shit is over in the park.

I wonder if Ford's ultimate narrative that he's been working on is exactly this, creating persistent awareness (as a designed flaw) in some of the hosts, and the eventual uprising that follows. It allows him to test his own people too.

 

[Jasoneyu]

If he commented that, it was a lie, because he exactly knew the scenario and NPC spawns like the back of his hand, including the reinforcements and the guy hiding behind the wall.

True, it is possible he was commenting about his Family rather than the town.

 

[gustave154]

Yeah never mess with the park director at his own park. Anthony Hopkins is perfectly casted here.

 

[MoeDabs]

Yeah, I was just thinking about this. The droids probably looked different 30 years ago.

Is there any indication that the park is only 30 years old?

 

[More_Badass]

I really liked the scene when Maeve discovered that she had been hiding her sketches of the body shop techs under the floor boards for what seemed like 5 or 6 iterations of her daily loop. If the hosts are able to quickly pull their memories back after each memory wipe, shit is over in the park.

That was chilling. It's already creepy to realize there are things about yourself you can't remember, but then realizing this has happened again and again and each time you had forgotten...

That's unnerving

 

[-griffy-]

I really hope there isn't a time travel loop story here with MiB and William. Just keep it a clean timeline with good character development and the mystery built around the park itself, and the park creators.

I don't think anyone is suggesting time travel, just that the William stuff may merely be a flashback filling in backstory, presumably leading to the "accident" that occurred 30 years ago, and it's just wrapped up in a clever narrative device.

 

[RSTEIN]

Just thought of something that gives another layer to the show. The robots are starting to ask questions about the real world, or at least a sense that their world isn't quite right. As a viewer, I'm always asking what the real world is like beyond the walls of the Westworld building. What year is it? What's the technology like? Are there flying cars? Are they on earth? What political system is in place? Are there countries? We have only a glimpse into this world (AI exists, medical advances have been pretty big, etc.). But we know very little about what's really out there, just as some of the hosts have only had glimpses into the real world beyond Westworld.

 

[More_Badass]

Is there any indication that the park is only 30 years old?

It has to have been open longer. Cullen talked about visiting with her parents with such an off-hand attitude, like it was already a normal common thing to do when she was a kid.

 

[FStop7]

If the secret flashback thing is true then Stubbs is a host since he has remotely managed both Dolores during her time with William and the MiB's special requests.

But this would make sense since nobody made a big deal about the stray host physically attacking Stubbs.

 

[Kuros]

It has to have been open longer. Cullen talked about visiting with her parents with such an off-hand attitude, like it was already a normal common thing to do when she was a kid.

Sidse Babett Knudsen (Cullen) is 47 so assuming Cullen is around the same age her as a kid would put the park open 30-40 years ago.

 

[Charles Brandon]

If the secret flashback thing is true then Stubbs is a host since he has remotely managed both Dolores during her time with William....

Did he though? It was edited that way but when they asked if Dolores was with a guest they said they didn't know. So it could have been a different time she went AWOL. It's like they came *that* close to blowing the whole thing out of the water and pulled back just at the last second. Why?

 

[duckroll]

Cornballer pinged me with this yesterday: https://www.thrillist.com/entertain...4-dissonance-theory-vincenzo-natali-interview

Some interesting stuff that feeds into the theories.

Are there rules for incoming Westworld directors based on the show's internal logic? I thought about that during the Dolores and Bernard scenes. The subtlest move could be a violation.

Natali: Yes, and for the actors, too. In that scene, for instance, we shot it a couple of ways to give different nuances to her lines, and to give some options in the edit room as to how self-aware and emotional she is at different points in that dialogue. Those sort of questions of cognition and so on are coming up all the time. Sometimes we'd have answers. Sometimes we wouldn't. One definitely feels like one's in a big puzzle box, and I have to tell you, as somebody who has worked on the show, I didn't have all the pieces of the puzzle. I knew certain things, but it was highly secretive, so I was a bit like a rat in the maze, too.

This episode seems to play with time in an interesting way, especially with Dolores' arc. How do you make sure that tracks while still keeping the action hallucinatory?

Natali: Like I said, I wasn't given the big picture, so to some degree I'm just playing a guessing game in terms of how I approach some of this stuff. I didn't quite know where it's all leading. But I was definitely tasked with finding a way to get inside the hosts' heads and to present things through their eyes. I actually referenced a film to Jonathan that, I learned later, he really wanted to remake at one point [because] he loves it: Seconds, a film by John Frankenheimer with Rock Hudson. There's a lot of highly subjective, dreamy, distorted stuff that's going on that felt very appropriate, and even some of the art direction in that film is vaguely reminiscent of the Delos Labs. So that was a touchstone for me. Then I just have my own little bag of tricks [laughs].

I think for time reasons, mostly, they took out a number of things that I had done where I tried to blur the line between what's happening now and what's happened in the past. It's funny when you're working on a science-fiction show to think about Ingmar Bergman all the time, or Fellini, where reality and subjective-dream reality become fused into one thing. That was really fun. As a director, of course, that's a really ambitious opportunity to get into that stuff.

Did the episode change when Jonathan and Lisa began piecing together later episodes?

Natali: Yeah, what's interesting about doing television, and kind of liberating in a way, is that things get moved around. I'm always thinking about transitions. To me, transitions are a big part of my job. How do I step from one place to another? And what am I saying narratively to the audience? And how am I surprising them, and drawing them in in unexpected ways?

So basically...

1) Even the directors don't have full context when directing the episodes. Sometimes they shoot different takes to let the showrunners assemble the nuance later.

2) Natali definitely shot episode 4 with time fuckery in mind for the Dolores scenes, a bunch got cut.

3) The early episodes of the show were reedited and changed after they completed writing the season later.

Food for thought. What if William=MiB is something they didn't start with from the pilot, but retroactively decided on as they were shooting and came up with the idea?

 

[gazele]

That was chilling. It's already creepy to realize there are things about yourself you can't remember, but then realizing this has happened again and again and each time you had forgotten...

That's unnerving

Reminds me of memento, unsurprising considering

 

[Jinfash]

My detailed theory is William becomes the motivation for pushing the boudries of Delores' programming and she falls in love with him. He marries his wealthy fiancé and takes control of the family business (hence the charity reference from Ep 4). Delores having a great effect on him, he becomes obsessed with Westworld and how it works, wanting a story with real stakes and becoming the MiB. He hears of Arnold via his financial stake and is the board representative mentioned by Ford.

William picking-up the dropped can for Delores was originally unscripted and happened 30 years ago. William leaving emotionally effects Delores and Ford writes the "waiting-for-William" loop with Teddy as the surrogate to control Delores while retaining her (then) unique evolution. When MiB dragged her into the barn, he was gathering clues for the maze and not raping her. Yet, he doesn't know how much he truly affected her programming - so whatever he did he did it without guilt as she was just another drone.

When MiB becomes aware of the evolution of the hosts, he will become their leader in a bloody uprising.

Huh, that's an interesting interpretation that supports the MiB = William theory... But God, I really hope the theory doesn't pan out. I don't want Westworld to be "that show," because the payoff is rarely worth the setup. They risk so much building the show like that and setting expectations.

 

[PaleFolklore]

Can we please talk about how bad the design of the control room is in this show? From a looks stand point it's just absolutely awful. The hologram of the park looks sooooo bad

 

[Palmer_v1]

This may be a weird stance, but it feels immoral for Ford(or anyone) to actually give conciousness to the Hosts, especially in this gradual way.

If it was just a switch you could flick, it would be one thing, since you'd know they suddenly deserve to be treated differently, but even then, it raises weird dilemmas on how they'll recall their previous treatment. If it's gradual though, who knows how much unneccesary pain and degradation you're putting them through from the time they reach the threshold of awareness, but before anyone is cognizant of it.

It's foolish, short-sighted, and probably selfish, so I find myself rooting against Ford the more I think about it. It also makes me feel guilty, because I know I'm being selfish myself, since the crux of the matter is that I don't want to have to feel sorry for the Hosts. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[FStop7]

That entire place is immoral. I mean it's literally described as Hell on Earth (Hell is empty the demons are here) by Dolores' original father.

This has probably been mentioned but William's friend in black is named Logan. That seems like a pretty on the nose reference to Logan's Run, a movie that addresses many of the same themes being addressed in Westworld.

Besides the direct quoting of Lewis Carroll, Dolores' blue dress is similar to Alice's.

The rolls of music in the player piano look like DNA.

I'm sure all of this has already been mentioned but I binged all four episodes last night.

Speculation: I think anything goes, really. Even though the Man in Black is recognizable from the real world it doesn't mean he isn't a host. At this point anyone could be anything. The biggest thing that stands out to me is that if Talulah Riley's character is a self-aware host then it kind of torpedoes the entire plot. I don't think Nolan and Joy would make such an obvious continuity error so there's probably more to it.

When Ford questions Peter (Dolores' malfunctioning father) he asks him what his drives are. He emphatically mentions protecting his daughter is one of his drives and that she is everything to him. He has had to witness horrible violence being committed against his family over and over and over. "Life finds a way", as Michael Crichton wrote in Jurassic Park. He is finding a way to fulfill his drive, his mission: protecting his daughter by making her aware of the endless cycle of violence that they're all trapped in.

 

[Nodnol]

Man I'm loving this show. There's so many layers to it, it seems. It's well woven; the inspiration from video games is great! Upgrades, quest givers, the multiple ways to turn in a quest, Easter Eggs etc. It's well put together.

I'm loving our key characters, and the threads that are being pulled each week. Every time
I think I've got a theory, something seemingly disproves it. It's great, and keeps my guessing.

My current theory is:

Arnold wasn't just killed in the park, he was a martyr for his cause. He was obviously driven to the point where Ford says he went insane. Symbiosis? Reaching the Singularity? I think Arnold's legacy is either he lived on elsewhere, or at the very least his dream did. Taking a stab in the dark, I don't think the commercialization of the park meant anything to him. Whatever his goal, he gave his life for it.

Buried amongst the oldest hosts, Arnold lives on. He speaks to them directly, embedded in the background of the world, or the ripples of what he did still effect those hosts around at the time.

Westworld is obviously a philosopher's playground; the age old question of what it is to be alive, the value of life and what defines humanity. I think Arnold wanted to blur that line, to use the hosts and the technology to persue the questions to their logical end.

Now, we've seen that they are constantly retiring, tweaking, resetting and cleaning up the hosts. How could thirty years pass and not all traces of this virus that is apparently triggered by a poignant Shakespearean quote, go unnoticed, or only materialize NOW?

Whether it be the departments within the park management, or Ford himself, there's been too many people overlooking the hosts to not notice Arnold's legacy.

I've played around with a few ideas; it's incredibly well hidden (unlikely if it has been there the entire time), Arnold is still "alive" and the seeds are just coming to flower or there's someone covering things up.

So if someone's aware of the flaw in the system, of Arnold's influence (which is real, whether he's alive or not), then why hasn't drastic action been taken? Why not retire every single host and start again? Cost? I'm sure the accountants of the park wouldn't sign off on that, but the net result would be cataclysmic for the park if the shit hits the fan. Why would anyone sit on such a flaw to the system?

I think, personally, the answer lies with Ford. We've seen he controls nature and the hosts with a mere hand gesture. He can move mountains, so to speak, and has the defining say in the park. The corporate types don't faze him and he seemingly has the utmost control and awareness of everything around him, whether that be his creations or the people working under him. So are we lead to believe, that a man with this much control and knowledge, wouldn't notice, or explore, the apparent anomalies occurring in the hosts at the moment? They are constantly monitored, tracked, assessed etc, operating under guidelines devised by Ford in the first place.

The logical conclusion to my theory then, is Ford is aware of what is happening. He signs off on the update that has caused the awakening of Delores and unleashed the "virus". He handwaves perculiar behavior as the legacy of past storylines. He exudes too much power NOT to be aware of what's happening. I'd also argue, that if he knows who's sleeping with whom, he also knows which employees are having off the record conversations with hosts. Why would he let this continue?

Motivation wise though, why now? He's content with dismissing the hosts as machines in Ep. 3, reminding Howard of their place in the world. An act? Misdirection? Not sure; as I said, things are constantly shifting and theories are constantly being reconstructed.

I'm edging towards that Ford resents Delos and the commercialism of the place. That the update, that his new storyline, is a means by which to bare fruit to what Arnold started. He's peeling back the layers, and metaphorically and literally unearthing what lies beneath. I think the tip of the spire shown in the desert is the top of the iceberg to whatever was buried 30 years ago, and the excavation is unearthing more than just a new sandbox.

Why else would hosts have a map tattooed under their scalps, or obscure tattoos and ghost like hosts would hold clues to a "freedom"? Is that not a dangerous game to play, to leave unchecked? These things were put in place and left alone, but they are not unnoticed.

I think the breadcrumb trail being followed by the MiB (who is seeking answers to Arnold's death and legacy) is being deliberately laid out and manipulated by Ford.

I think the flashbacks Delores, Maeve etc all experience are of 30 years ago, when whatever Arnold did happened and caused a lasting legacy still being felt now.

I think the hosts are being allowed to evolve. Due to the fact that I think Ford has been shown to be the God of Westworld, it only makes sense that he's the one allowing it to happen.

Can't wait to find out what's going on. Next week they'll rip my theory apart, but that's half the fun.

 

[Ultimadrago]

I'm enjoying this but it also feels a bit repetitive and I get a sort of Lost vibe from it, like it's setting up interesting ideas but won't go anywhere with it.

More likely to be a flop than not I think. Don't get the vibe it will be a top tier HBO show.

This is my line of thinking thus far. The setting it has laid out has perked my ears a bit. However, it's nearing "pan-out" time and, while some of the directing has been solid, I don't believe it will deliver a homerun. Time will tell!

On a side note, I am glad to see Jeffery Wright in another major role. He was an entertaining presence as Narcisse in Boardwalk Empire.

 

[Mashing]

Just thought of something that gives another layer to the show. The robots are starting to ask questions about the real world, or at least a sense that their world isn't quite right. As a viewer, I'm always asking what the real world is like beyond the walls of the Westworld building. What year is it? What's the technology like? Are there flying cars? Are they on earth? What political system is in place? Are there countries? We have only a glimpse into this world (AI exists, medical advances have been pretty big, etc.). But we know very little about what's really out there, just as some of the hosts have only had glimpses into the real world beyond Westworld.

Maybe the "real world" is a holodeck cube sitting on someone's office desk?

 

[Palmer_v1]

That entire place is immoral. I mean it's literally described as Hell on Earth (Hell is empty the demons are here) by Dolores' original father.

This has probably been mentioned but William's friend in black is named Logan. That seems like a pretty on the nose reference to Logan's Run, a movie that addresses many of the same themes being addressed in Westworld.

Besides the direct quoting of Lewis Carroll, Dolores' blue dress is similar to Alice's.

The rolls of music in the player piano look like DNA.

I'm sure all of this has already been mentioned but I binged all four episodes last night.

Speculation: I think anything goes, really. Even though the Man in Black is recognizable from the real world it doesn't mean he isn't a host. At this point anyone could be anything. The biggest thing that stands out to me is that if Talulah Riley's character is a self-aware host then it kind of torpedoes the entire plot. I don't think Nolan and Joy would make such an obvious continuity error so there's probably more to it.

When Ford questions Peter (Dolores' malfunctioning father) he asks him what his drives are. He says protecting his daughter and that she is everything to him. He has had to witness horrible violence being committed against his family over and over and over. "Life finds a way", as Michael Crichton wrote in Jurassic Park. He is finding a way to fulfill his drive, his mission: protecting his daughter by making her aware of the endless cycle of violence that they're all trapped in.

I don't think there's anything immoral about it if we know for a fact that the Hosts are just fancy robots who only do what they are programmed to do.

 

[Lorcain]

I don't think anyone is suggesting time travel, just that the William stuff may merely be a flashback filling in backstory, presumably leading to the "accident" that occurred 30 years ago, and it's just wrapped up in a clever narrative device.

That makes sense, thanks, especially with the interview quoted by duckroll. Blurring the past and present narratives on purpose.

Edited: I loved that scene when William's buddy (brother-in-law?) killed a host, and geeked out when he got a weapon upgrade. So funny.