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What are important features for a gaming TV?

A

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
I don't see a thread on TVs for gaming, so I made this topic. I plan on buying a new TV in the next couple weeks. I currently have a 26" LCD Samsung, which I like, but want something bigger. I've been doing some research into it, and would like some areas clarified.

Are either Plasma, LED or LCD typically found to be better for playing games? Nothing I found seems to signify that being the case any longer. In fact, LEDs don't seem to be that much different from LCDs.

Does Hz matter? I've heard conflicting reports on this. My friend says he found motion to look much better at 120 Hz then 60 Hz. I've seen people say the extra Hz don't matter much since most games are locked at 30 fps and 60 fps. Hz to my understanding determines how many times a frame is repeated each second. Some say when you get into Hz as high as 600 (an example below) the animation looks strange.

1080p vs 720p. I'm looking to get a TV in the 40 to mid 40s inches range. Is this a size that won't benefit much from 1080p? My father has been very pleased with the picture of his 51 inch Plasma that only does 720p.

One issue I'm finding is that most TVs I look at only have 2 HDMI ports. I use the two on my Samsung for my laptop and PS3. When I get a Wii U Sunday that will force me to switch them out. I'm not sure how much it's worth to sacrifice some features for a third port.

Top three choices for TVs currently:

NOTE: I don't care about 3D or Smart TV features.

Samsung PN43E450 43-Inch 720p 600Hz Plasma HDTV

Samsung UN40EH5000 40-Inch 1080p 60Hz LED HDTV

JVC JLC47BC3002 BlackCrystal 47-Inch 1080p 60Hz LCD TV with Ambient Light Sensor
 
X

Xav

Member
Any decently priced Samsung TV will do, just make sure you turn on game mode so it gets rid of all the extra image "enhancing" shit. Right I'm off before the Panasonic plasma elitists arrive.

Edit: Too late.
 
E

Eusis

Member
First and foremost above all else: minimizing input lag as much as possible, especially with a game mode. All the neat frills and the best IQ won't matter if input lag makes everything feel like an unresponsive mess.

Beyond that? Resolution, IQ, and LCD response time I guess. 120 hz is useful only if I'm going to use it as a computer monitor or on a 3D game, and I don't know enough about the different display types beyond the fact LCD HAS gotten to look pretty good though Plasma seems to be the best for IQ, but also drains the most power if that's a concern.
 
O

ozfunghi

Member
A Human Becoming said:
I don't see a thread on TVs for gaming, so I made this topic. I plan on buying a new TV in the next couple weeks. I currently have a 26" LCD Samsung, which I like, but want something bigger. I've been doing some research into it, and would like some areas clarified.

Are either Plasma, LED or LCD typically found to be better for playing games? Nothing I found seems to signify that being the case any longer. In fact, LEDs don't seem to be that much different from LCDs.

Does Hz matter? I've heard conflicting reports on this. My friend says he found motion to look much better at 120 Hz then 60 Hz. I've seen people say the extra Hz don't matter much since most games are locked at 30 fps and 60 fps. Hz to my understanding determines how many times a frame is repeated each second. Some say when you get into Hz as high as 600 (an example below) the animation looks strange.

1080p vs 720p. I'm looking to get a TV in the 40 to mid 40s range. Is this a size that won't benefit much from 1080p? My father has been very pleased with the picture of his 51 inch Plasma that only does 720p.

One issue I'm finding is that most TVs I look at only have 2 HDMI ports. I use the two on my Samsung for my laptop and PS3. When I get a Wii U Sunday that will force me to switch them out. I'm not sure how much it's worth to sacrifice some features for a third port.

Top three choices for TVs currently:

NOTE: I don't care about 3D or Smart TV features.

Samsung PN43E450 43-Inch 720p 600Hz Plasma HDTV

Samsung UN40EH5000 40-Inch 1080p 60Hz LED HDTV

JVC JLC47BC3002 BlackCrystal 47-Inch 1080p 60Hz LCD TV with Ambient Light Sensor
Click to expand...


Excuse my ignorance, but i though LED is LCD.

LED = light technology (in LCD screens)
LCD = display technology with backlight (possibly LED)
 
E

Eusis

Member
Looking quickly: it seems the Panasonic Vieras are best for input lag. However, they're also pretty pricey, while Samsung developed their Game Mode with Microsoft way back. I expect they're a better choice than JVC for that, but I wouldn't be sure, if money isn't an object than I'd just go for the Viera.
 
J

JB1981

Member
S

SolarPowered

Member
Most important:
Refresh rate - You want a high refresh rate. Makes for good, smooth FPS action if you want build a good gaming PC to play 120FPS games on(lower visual settings helps there)
Response time - Low response time(sub 15ms for TVs and 2-3ms for PC monitors) for twitch/reflex based gameplay
Viewing angle - Good for local multiplayer or whenever you aren't playing directly in front of your TV
Number of connections(unless you have a receiver) - Self explanatory
Resolution - You want a TV that can output 1080p for consoles and the PC. Good for future proofing
Lack of burn in(increasingly smaller problem for plasmas) - I'm sure you don't want HUDs burned into your screen for days or weeks, right? LCD tech has no burn in

Things to consider:
Color - Look for a TV that has decent color. Most TVs seem to get decent color ratings for good prices
Black levels - Better for movies than games imo. Still... Plasmas will give you sexy blacks and if you have the money they tend to give good colors too
Wattage - A good low wattage TV could save you dozens of dollars a year on electric bills and have low heat output
Internal resolution scaler - Very useful for game systems that can't output 720p. There is no TV with an absolutely 5 star scaler iirc

I was initially going to get the second Samsung television on your list, but I thought I'd go with the IPS panel Panasonic Viera instead.
 
A

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
dookeh said:
You don't sound very picky. Go with this and save yourself money:

http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/83012/frys-42-lg-42pa4500-720p-600hz-plasma-hdtv

Frys.com has 42" LG 42PA4500 720p 600Hz Plasma HDTV for $299 with free shipping.

Specs:

Tuner: ATSC/NTSC/Clear QAM
Resolution: 1024x768
600Hz Sub Field Driving
Contrast Ratio: 3,000,000:1 Dynamic
Inputs:
2x HDMI
2x Component
1x USB
1x PC Audio In
1x PC Audio Out
1x D-Sub
1x AV In
1x RF In
Click to expand...
Cnet wasn't impressed, nor was Digital Versus. Amazon users seemed happy with it however.
 
1

1-D_FTW

Member
Input lag.

Input lag.

Input lag.

Any more questions? Oh, I almost forgot, input lag.

Eusis said:
First and foremost above all else: minimizing input lag as much as possible, especially with a game mode. All the neat frills and the best IQ won't matter if input lag makes everything feel like an unresponsive mess.

Beyond that? Resolution, IQ, and LCD response time I guess. 120 hz is useful only if I'm going to use it as a computer monitor or on a 3D game, and I don't know enough about the different display types beyond the fact LCD HAS gotten to look pretty good though Plasma seems to be the best for IQ, but also drains the most power if that's a concern.
Click to expand...


That's useless unless it's a real 120hz monitor. HDTVs just input a 60hz signal and then use lag inducing processing to interpolate and guess what the missing frames would look like. Utterly useless for PCs.
 
K

krae_man

Member
One thing I've noticed about newer TV's is that they all seem to skimp on the non HDMI ports now.

I saw one that even combined the RCA and Composite inputs into some kind of hybrid input.

My current TV has 3 HDMI, 2 Component, 1 VGA, 1 Optical Out, 2 Composite, 1 S Video. Most TV's now can't compare to that and I don't think any have S-Video Anymore.

When I get a new TV I will probably have to give up on S-Video and daisy chain switches :(
 
E

Eusis

Member
1-D_FTW said:
That's useless unless it's a real 120hz monitor. HDTVs just input a 60hz signal and then use lag inducing processing to interpolate and guess what the missing frames would look like. Utterly useless for PCs.
Click to expand...
Was afraid of something like that, at least for some TVs. Failing that they'd be dumb and now allow it to be used properly with computers anyway, either way it's disappointing.
krae_man said:
My current TV has 3 HDMI, 2 Component, 1 VGA, 1 Optical Out, 2 Composite, 1 S Video. Most TV's now can't compare to that and I don't think any have S-Video Anymore.
Click to expand...
It's disappointing, for pre-PS2 consoles (and GCs in lieu of component) it's the best way to play them on an HDTV without getting a dedicated scaling box.
 
D

dookeh

Member
A Human Becoming said:
Cnet wasn't impressed, nor was Digital Versus. Amazon users seemed happy with it however.
Click to expand...

Digital Foundry said:
If you're looking for a cheap TV, the LG PA4500 is no five-star show-stopper, but it has plenty of plus points thanks to plasma technology (deep blacks, responsiveness, wide viewing angles, no clouding, perfect display consistency).
Click to expand...

and

Pros

Nice, deep black (0.07 cd/m²)
Excellent responsiveness (8 ms on average)
No clouding (light blotches in dark zones)
Price
Click to expand...

Sounds like a great budget gaming TV to me. Unless of course you are in a really bright room since it is plasma after all.
edit: Those amazon reviews are glowing. And those people paid $500+ for it
 
A

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
1-D_FTW said:
Input lag.

Input lag.

Input lag.

Any more questions? Oh, I almost forgot, input lag.
Click to expand...
SolarPowered said:
Most important:
Response time - Low response time(sub 15ms for TVs and 2-3ms for PC monitors) for twitch/reflex based gameplay
Click to expand...
Eusis said:
First and foremost above all else: minimizing input lag as much as possible, especially with a game mode. All the neat frills and the best IQ won't matter if input lag makes everything feel like an unresponsive mess.
Click to expand...
Do most TV technical specs list input lag?
dookeh said:
Digital Foundry said:


and



Sounds like a great budget gaming TV to me. Unless of course you are in a really bright room since it is plasma after all.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but I'd rather pay more to get higher quality. I'm willing to go into the $500 range.
 
P

phosphor112

Banned
dookeh said:
You don't sound very picky. Go with this and save yourself money:

http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/83012/frys-42-lg-42pa4500-720p-600hz-plasma-hdtv

Frys.com has 42" LG 42PA4500 720p 600Hz Plasma HDTV for $299 with free shipping.

Specs:

Tuner: ATSC/NTSC/Clear QAM
Resolution: 1024x768
600Hz Sub Field Driving
Contrast Ratio: 3,000,000:1 Dynamic
Inputs:
2x HDMI
2x Component
1x USB
1x PC Audio In
1x PC Audio Out
1x D-Sub
1x AV In
1x RF In
Click to expand...
NO! NOT LG! DONT DO IT! THE LAG WILL MAKE YOU KILL YOURSELF!
 
1

1-D_FTW

Member
A Human Becoming said:
Do most TV technical specs list input lag?
Click to expand...

Whiteshirt said:
They don't, you need to find specific reviews.
Click to expand...

Yup. It really requires you dig into the bowels of the internet. Because no matter what set you look at, you'll see some posters claiming the lag isn't noticeable to them. There have been LGs with 200ms of lag and posters on well known forums will still testify there's no noticeable lag. Most sets will have published numbers from somebody if you dig deep enough.
 
A

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
1-D_FTW said:
Yup. It really requires you dig into the bowels of the internet. Because no matter what set you look at, you'll see some posters claiming the lag isn't noticeable to them. There have been LGs with 200ms of lag and posters on well known forums will still testify there's no noticeable lag. Most sets will have published numbers from somebody if you dig deep enough.
Click to expand...
Well that's a pain.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
A Human Becoming said:
Do most TV technical specs list input lag?
Click to expand...
Nope and that sucks. You have to put on your detective hat and dig deep into the internet. There is an alternative solution though. Most people might not be crazy about it, but you could solve most of your issues by going with two screens instead of one. A great sub $200 PC(probably $150 flat on Black Friday/Cyber monday) monitor will give you great colors, okay blacks, 1080p, good refresh rates, absolutely god level response time(most list rs from the start) and super low heat output/wattage. Pair that with a cheap 32" HD for multiple inputs, tv inputs(cable and such) and better size.

I suspect you'll just want to go for a good single screen though haha. I hear Panasonic Vieras have low response time. I don't think there are any HDTVs that compete with PC monitors in that area, let alone old fashioned CRT TVs...
 
1

1-D_FTW

Member
A Human Becoming said:
Well that's a pain.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Most definitely. But the lower you get, the better your experience will become.

The AVS forums have a dedicated thread with a lot of LCD models.

Best advice is --> Google ---> "Model" + "input lag". Make sure you put the input lag in quotes so it drills down and doesn't give you hits on how many inputs the set has.

And then if you're in a thread, hit control-F in your browser to quickly search threads. If it's about that specific model, enter in "input lag". If it's a general input lag thread, control-f the model number you're looking for.

You can tend to find specific info pretty quickly if you have targeted searches.

If you can't find the numbers in a specific review, these websites are considered the best general guide:

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/sub-1-frame-hdtv-monitor-input-lag-database.145141/

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1131464/i...esults-of-your-lcd-display-here-for-reference
 
O

onQ123

Member
1-D_FTW said:
Input lag.

Input lag.

Input lag.

Any more questions? Oh, I almost forgot, input lag.
Click to expand...


This!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was about to post my video about buying a monitor over a HDTV because of input lag but I see it's covered.

if you have become used to playing on a HDTV the moment you play a game on a HDCRT or input lag free monitor everything just feel like a breath of fresh air.
 
D

dookeh

Member
onQ123 said:
This!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was about to post my video about buying a monitor over a HDTV because of input lag but I see it's covered.

if you have become used to playing on a HDTV the moment you play a game on a HDCRT or input lag free monitor everything just feel like a breath of fresh air.
Click to expand...

I have a Benq XL2420 monitor and a Panasonic 54v10 plasma and I can't tell the difference between them. Not in FPS' or fighting games. You just have to get the right display. I learned the hard way back in 2004-05 when nearly everybody though input lag was a myth. It was nearly impossible to find information online about it back then.
 
1

1-D_FTW

Member
dookeh said:
I have a Benq XL2420 monitor and a Panasonic 54v10 plasma and I can't tell the difference between them. Not in FPS' or fighting games. You just have to get the right display. I learned the hard way back in 2004-05 when nearly everybody though input lag was a myth. It was nearly impossible to find information online about it back then.
Click to expand...

That's because a V10 plasma only has 1 frame of lag. There are very few HDTVs, unfortunately, that can make that claim. 16ms of lag is FANTASTIC for an HDTV and pretty much in the land of unnoticeable.
 
D

dookeh

Member
1-D_FTW said:
That's because a V10 plasma only has 1 frame of lag. There are very few HDTVs, unfortunately, that can make that claim. 16ms of lag is FANTASTIC for an HDTV and pretty much in the land of unnoticeable.
Click to expand...

I know, that's why I own it. :)
 
V

VashTS

Member
I miss the promises that OLED TVs made. They looked great when on display.

What ever happened to them? too expensive and no market?
 
O

onQ123

Member
dookeh said:
I have a Benq XL2420 monitor and a Panasonic 54v10 plasma and I can't tell the difference between them. Not in FPS' or fighting games. You just have to get the right display. I learned the hard way back in 2004-05 when nearly everybody though input lag was a myth. It was nearly impossible to find information online about it back then.
Click to expand...

Some HDTVs are pretty good it's just that you will have a better chance at picking the right monitor than you will picking the right HDTV when it come to input lag.
 
D

dookeh

Member
onQ123 said:
Some HDTVs are pretty good it's just that you will have a better chance at picking the right monitor than you will picking the right HDTV when it come to input lag.
Click to expand...

There is enough information out there nowadays that you should be able to find a noticeably lag-free TV instead of resorting to a 27" computer monitor.
 
O

onQ123

Member
dookeh said:
There is enough information out there nowadays that you should be able to find a noticeably lag-free TV instead of resorting to a 27" computer monitor.
Click to expand...

if it's not for the living room/family room I still would choose a good 27" monitor over a bigger TV for games. for one the close distance that you can sit while playing on a monitor can give you the same view that you would get from a large TV sitting far away & there isn't much in between you & the monitor & it's more personal if there is other people in your house who would want to watch TV & use the bigger TV because the monitor isn't going to be your main TV.
 
B

Brofield

Member
SolarPowered said:
Internal resolution scaler - Very useful for game systems that can't output 720p. There is no TV with an absolutely 5 star scaler iirc
Click to expand...

My parents are getting a Samsung LED and moving the old HP Plasma to the basement, which means I now get to game in HD. So far as I know, the TV is likely old enough to not have an internal scaler. As I do plan on gaming with my Genesis, N64 and likely Gamecube, is it worth getting an external scaler, or will it not make much difference? If it would help, any you can reccomend?
 
D

dookeh

Member
onQ123 said:
if it's not for the living room/family room I still would choose a good 27" monitor over a bigger TV for games. for one the close distance that you can sit while playing on a monitor can give you the same view that you would get from a large TV sitting far away & there isn't much in between you & the monitor & it's more personal if there is other people in your house who would want to watch TV & use the bigger TV because the monitor isn't going to be your main TV.
Click to expand...

Maybe he should get an 11" OLED then. Very little lag, has better blacks than plasma, and if he sits close enough he gets the same view as a computer monitor.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00126W14O/?tag=neogaf0e-20
 
A

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
I don't want to go smaller than I already have as it's difficult to watch movies on my current TV because of the distance between the screen and where my pillows are.
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
SolarPowered said:
Response time - Low response time(sub 15ms for TVs and 2-3ms for PC monitors) for twitch/reflex based gameplay
Click to expand...
To be clear: "Response time" is NOT the same thing as "input lag." Most manufacturers will list the former but not the latter.
 
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