Fair enough. But overall it's still a good book, no?
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What are you reading? (July 2015)
- Thread starter Maklershed
- Start date
Fair enough. But overall it's still a good book, no?
As a series, sure, but I'd probably just stick to the first and second books if I had to re-read any of them today.
A long time ago I jokingly suggested to someone that they should read the short stories on Gaf's fortnightly Creative Writing Challenge.
But apparently it worked. No idea why. Maybe it's because of the deadline. Who knows.
So try that:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1068950
You don't have to enter. You'll quickly get ten/fifteen stories under your belt.
Nappuccino
Member
Interesting to see that the book's a bit free form in that way. I'll admit that the poem has been the main spot of hesitancy because I'm not sure what I'm expected to garner from it. I tried reading the book both ways--falling down the rabbit hole as that author did, and reading straight through. I think I'll give it another shot and just try to get over that initial "how do I read this" hump before setting it aside again.
If you like it, I'd suggest reading Nabokov's Pale Fire: The Magic of Artistic Discovery by Brian Boyd. Actually, even if you aren't sure how you feel.
Nappuccino
Member
That sounds pretty great! Thanks for the suggestion.
Oh, I also finished Seveneves by Stephenson. It was fun. For whatever reason(probably the pessimist in me) I invariably start talking about faults in a book that falls just short of great instead of strengths and that's exactly where Seveneves is. So, stuff that he's great at:
-describing engineering/tech stuff in exhaustive detail mostly without it ever crossing into boring.
-making scientists into rock stars. I mean it seems like he worships them and he can't help but impart some of that wonder and resourcefulness to the reader.
This, combined with an interesting premise, makes the first two thirds of Seveneves really strong. Think of it as The Martian, except the scope is much broader and it's written by someone who is confident and obviously great at his craft. Where he starts to fall short is characters and themes. It's also a bit of a bummer that there's nothing surprising even when the book makes a certain leap to a place that has the potential to be very fascinating. I guess I'm waiting for the sequel to answer some overarching questions.
So that's Seveneves in a nutshell: great at the ancillary stuff, great at presenting interesting technological/engineering problems for its rock star scientist characters to solve. Great at world building as well. Something you can sink a bunch of hours into without regret, it's fun. Just wasn't a gestalt for me at any point to really make things spectacular and that comes down to all the human bits that don't have much to do with analytical thinking and technical prowess.
-describing engineering/tech stuff in exhaustive detail mostly without it ever crossing into boring.
-making scientists into rock stars. I mean it seems like he worships them and he can't help but impart some of that wonder and resourcefulness to the reader.
This, combined with an interesting premise, makes the first two thirds of Seveneves really strong. Think of it as The Martian, except the scope is much broader and it's written by someone who is confident and obviously great at his craft. Where he starts to fall short is characters and themes. It's also a bit of a bummer that there's nothing surprising even when the book makes a certain leap to a place that has the potential to be very fascinating. I guess I'm waiting for the sequel to answer some overarching questions.
So that's Seveneves in a nutshell: great at the ancillary stuff, great at presenting interesting technological/engineering problems for its rock star scientist characters to solve. Great at world building as well. Something you can sink a bunch of hours into without regret, it's fun. Just wasn't a gestalt for me at any point to really make things spectacular and that comes down to all the human bits that don't have much to do with analytical thinking and technical prowess.
Thank you.
The starting gun is when the list of entries is formed, which might not be for a few hours yet.
So go back to your non-reading wilderness until then.
Reading is like any other activity. Hard at first, then gets easier.
The starting gun is when the list of entries is formed, which might not be for a few hours yet.
So go back to your non-reading wilderness until then.
Reading is like any other activity. Hard at first, then gets easier.
That's pretty true. It used to be a feat for me to read a novel, but most of my free time is now devoted to literature.
It's definitely true. I really struggled with paying attention for sustained periods of time when I started reading novels again regularly, because that's just not how I (or I think most people) read when I'm reading random things online.
I'd planned on reading A Little Life all day, but all day turned into all night and all night turned into a part of it and as a result I didn't get much actual reading done.
Early on, though, I did get to where Jude crawls into a bathtub and the next chapter shifts to Harold talking about meeting Jude, thinking about Jacob, etc and I wondered what might happen had Jude just died there and it was an immediate reaction rather than something farther off in the distance, like if it was a monologue from the recently bereaved rather than someone talking like he was at a memorial service ten years in. It'd certainly be cathartic for everyone involved; there's an end and the characters will move on, grief petering out via the process of mourning. But instead Jude lives, and his suffering lives, and the grief that he is continues to move forward, though the book, of course, isn't all gloom here, and there's joy and humor and most of all, really beautiful people. The little intimate moments between Willem, his kindness and Harold's kindness and Andy's kindness, all the things that Jude loves but cannot give into wholeheartedly due to his spiraling traumas. It's all set to burst, of course, because this is a novel and the concept of an arc demands that eventually it must be set on a downward course.
I keep thinking about Yanagihara's comment early on - I believe it was from JB's point of view, when he's sitting in the train and we get that lovely passage about light washing over the weary passengers, the immigrants going to work during that time of day, and how JB is set apart from it by his comparative wealth, the luxury of having a space separate from where he lives to do his work in. Anyway, she comments that immigrants have something unique in them, or this is something JB has mentally assigned them, and that they possessed resignation and determination in equal measure, and how this relates to the 'crew' as a whole. JB implicitly empathizes with such a thought - though his preoccupation with money makes him dismiss the concept of being like the people he observes, perhaps he's more like them that he could possibly admit; the histories of the four friends are all rife with observations regarding their foreignness, that they do no belong in the city, one a farm boy, the other a black man divorced from what he considers a black experience and culture, the third JB and the last Jude, who is Jude. This feels like a trite observation and it's too early to tell where it goes. But whatever, needless to say I'm enjoying this quite a lot.
e: I can't sleep so I read a bit more of Lydia Davis and now I can sleep, god bless her.
Early on, though, I did get to where Jude crawls into a bathtub and the next chapter shifts to Harold talking about meeting Jude, thinking about Jacob, etc and I wondered what might happen had Jude just died there and it was an immediate reaction rather than something farther off in the distance, like if it was a monologue from the recently bereaved rather than someone talking like he was at a memorial service ten years in. It'd certainly be cathartic for everyone involved; there's an end and the characters will move on, grief petering out via the process of mourning. But instead Jude lives, and his suffering lives, and the grief that he is continues to move forward, though the book, of course, isn't all gloom here, and there's joy and humor and most of all, really beautiful people. The little intimate moments between Willem, his kindness and Harold's kindness and Andy's kindness, all the things that Jude loves but cannot give into wholeheartedly due to his spiraling traumas. It's all set to burst, of course, because this is a novel and the concept of an arc demands that eventually it must be set on a downward course.
I keep thinking about Yanagihara's comment early on - I believe it was from JB's point of view, when he's sitting in the train and we get that lovely passage about light washing over the weary passengers, the immigrants going to work during that time of day, and how JB is set apart from it by his comparative wealth, the luxury of having a space separate from where he lives to do his work in. Anyway, she comments that immigrants have something unique in them, or this is something JB has mentally assigned them, and that they possessed resignation and determination in equal measure, and how this relates to the 'crew' as a whole. JB implicitly empathizes with such a thought - though his preoccupation with money makes him dismiss the concept of being like the people he observes, perhaps he's more like them that he could possibly admit; the histories of the four friends are all rife with observations regarding their foreignness, that they do no belong in the city, one a farm boy, the other a black man divorced from what he considers a black experience and culture, the third JB and the last Jude, who is Jude. This feels like a trite observation and it's too early to tell where it goes. But whatever, needless to say I'm enjoying this quite a lot.
e: I can't sleep so I read a bit more of Lydia Davis and now I can sleep, god bless her.
AngmarsKing701
Member
Just finished
Gave it a 3/5 Princess Brides.
Now starting
Gave it a 3/5 Princess Brides.
Now starting
Just finished
Gave it a 3/5 Princess Brides.
Now starting
Lemme know what you thought about Ocean. I liked it, short and sweet, and I don't remember a single thing about it now. And I read it earlier this year.
Ever since finishing A Little Life, my love for it continues to grow due to these thoughtful posts.
I should also finish A Long Walk to Freedom by tomorrow. Next book will be The Half Has Never Been Told.
Finished reading Mr. Fox, great novel. It's really a short story collection book, but intermixed in-between chapters about the relationship of the writer Fox, his wife, Daphne, and his muse Mary Foxe. I sort of lost track of who was supposed to tell each story, but almost all of them ended up being great.
Also started reading The Martian, about 25% into it. Not feeling it that much. Reading about detailed fake scientific accomplishments isn't really that exciting despite the astronaut's character being a bit funny.
You Know Nothing
Member
NandyRewman
Member
Just wanted to chime in and say that Murakami's 'Kafka on the Shore' is, for want of a better, less clichéd word, magical. I can't think of many books that have been so utterly bizarre, yet simultaneously enthralling. Would heartily recommend to anyone and everyone.
(Haven't quite finished it yet, so if anyone has read it, no spoilers please!)
(Haven't quite finished it yet, so if anyone has read it, no spoilers please!)
I'm voting House of Mirth
Before I began reading the book proper, I thought How to Win Friends was a book on intentional manipulation in the vein of The Game. A few pages in and I realized that was way off the mark, because the philosophy is concerned with changing the reader's personal outlook, so it was more like self-help books in that way.
I found myself agreeing with its message of positivity and diplomacy in personal relations. Carnegie was teaching his readers how to be the ideal extrovert, someone to whom being liked and liking others is natural.
Thinking about it some more, though, I realized that was the wrong read, because the strategies outlined by Carnegie only work against people who're not employing the very same strategies. If both parties were using the book as a guideline, they would be more civil, sure, but they wouldn't get anywhere. It would become obvious both parties were manipulating each other and they would both resent that deep down.
The world this book describes allows only for a few to gain dominion over the many. After all, a society of Roosevelts and Lincolns would just be back to where it started. It hit me that what it was really teaching was how to be noble, in the most romantic sense of the word. Carnegie drew wisdom from the "monarchs" of his era and created a guide to becoming kingly.
I found myself agreeing with its message of positivity and diplomacy in personal relations. Carnegie was teaching his readers how to be the ideal extrovert, someone to whom being liked and liking others is natural.
Thinking about it some more, though, I realized that was the wrong read, because the strategies outlined by Carnegie only work against people who're not employing the very same strategies. If both parties were using the book as a guideline, they would be more civil, sure, but they wouldn't get anywhere. It would become obvious both parties were manipulating each other and they would both resent that deep down.
The world this book describes allows only for a few to gain dominion over the many. After all, a society of Roosevelts and Lincolns would just be back to where it started. It hit me that what it was really teaching was how to be noble, in the most romantic sense of the word. Carnegie drew wisdom from the "monarchs" of his era and created a guide to becoming kingly.
I can't help but think this kind of manipulation is akin to playing with fire.
I'd take a genuine person over a sham any day of the week. Even if that sham was created with the noblest intentions.
One of his key points that if even you take all his advice and put it to use, unless you're being sincere, people will pick up on it and be resentful. The reason his courses work (historically) is because they don't create shams.
I think what you really mean to say is that you'd prefer the company of a flawed person who is flawed by circumstance, to the company of a great person who affected his own greatness.
But then you'd be condemning almost all great people, because he makes it clear that no one is great by chance. Every great person got to where they were because they wanted to be, and devised strategies for it. All the Napeoleons and Lincolns of the world had their own cheat sheets and mnemonic tricks to being leaders of men. He just tries makes these tricks available to all.
There is some truth to it, however. People like to think of historical figures in terms of good and evil, but the methods by which they exert their influence on others are the same regardless of their personal moral compass. It could very well be that society might be better off without great men of any sort.
I think what you really mean to say is that you'd prefer the company of a flawed person who is flawed by circumstance, to the company of a great person who affected his own greatness.
But then you'd be condemning almost all great people, because he makes it clear that no one is great by chance. Every great person got to where they were because they wanted to be, and devised strategies for it. All the Napeoleons and Lincolns of the world had their own cheat sheets and mnemonic tricks to being leaders of men. He just tries makes these tricks available to all.
There is some truth to it, however. People like to think of historical figures in terms of good and evil, but the methods by which they exert their influence on others are the same regardless of their personal moral compass. It could very well be that society might be better off without great men of any sort.
Mmhm. It took me a month to read it because a) I needed breaks and b) I couldn't read it in public because it brought to an emotional place where I preferred to be alone.
Have you read Murakami before?
Is he claiming that all the great historical leaders are extroverts? Because that definitely isnt true. Washington is a prime example of this. He certainly was not an extrovert, but was widely regarded as a great leader of men because the extrovert ideal really did not exist back then. Washington certainly made a conscious effort to appear as a great leader, but he did this by appearing to be serious, even tempered and rather laconic. This went along with his personality so it worked. He did have a serious temper though, but that made people respect him even more because he was able to control it so well.
We definitely value extrovert qualities today, but that is largely determined by our values and our culture. Different eras and cultures valued different things. I would recommend reading Quiet: The power of Introverts. I think it will give you a somewhat different perspective on the extrovert/introvert dynamic, especially in terms of leadership and their effectiveness.
No, I may have misrepresented his stance. They're merely his model for what to strive for if you want to turn yourself into a good (business) leader.
I wouldn't mind seeing the other side of the equation so consider it bought.
I think the books sell well because they contain lots of little nuggets of truth to cover up a whole lot of bull.
I glanced through it a while back, so this is just a shallow recall on my part. But to me it was just a series of attempts to be agreeable on an universal level. Which to be frank is something your mother should had already taught you.
The whole idea of winning friends by being a good person (please correct me if I'm completely wrong in surmising the book as such) suggests to me that you're [not you personally but a more generic 'you'] now not with friends because you're not exactly a nice person. Which kinda puts me off.
In another book by Carnegie, the art of public speaking, I quit about half way, when I realised for all the perfect illustrations he was giving me, I learnt nothing new.
It can be quite self defeating when you're being told to smile and be sincere and be good when all you are is miserable and friendless. I don't know how the modern ones takes differ. Hopefully more studies are thrown in; Science tends to influence people a lot more these days then just good morals.
---
When I said a sham, I was talking about people who smile, and I have no idea where their good humour is coming from.* Generally speaking context is king.
* Some people are readily of good humour of course and that's fine.
You haven't seen anything yet. That second half was brutal.
Kafka transformed my experiences of drinking Johnny Walker and eating at KFC into a surreal one.
A bit into the motel and I had to stop again for the night. It's so cruel.
Still rather furious about
how Harold or Andy didn't call the cops on Caleb. It makes no sense to me, that they'd fear losing Jude's friendship so much that they're willing to risk losing him entirely. Assuming that Jude is dead now - although suicide feels too clean an end so naturally, maybe, he'll survive. I keep wishing he'd died early, or that the fall was fatal, or that this last suicide attempt is not just an attempt because I can't see a way out for him.
I saw it as them trying to navigate Jude's trust issues. If they had done so in spite of his asking them not to, I think he would have seen it as the sort of betrayal he always feared from his friends (and Willem and Harold especially), and cut them out of his life. Of course, that might have been the best thing for it, to take a risk with the relationship, but I understood how they rationalized it. If Jude isn't willing to tell anyone, he's not going to be willing to cooperate with an investigation or lodge a complaint, to allow his body to be examined, and the end result could leave Jude even more isolated than he already is. While they don't have the full picture, I think they could see how reporting it in spite of Jude's wishes could have left him without even the emotional support system he allowed himself. I haven't reread it yet, but someone I follow on Twitter argued that a second reading allowed him to see see how Jude manipulated his friends into enabling roles and isolate them from one another. He described it as Iago-esqe, which is an interesting comparison for a character who so often comes across as relatively guileless.
TestMonkey
Member
Finished Annihilation by Jeff VanderMeer. I have no idea what happened. I'm guessing things get clearer as the series go on but the first book resolves nothing. Anybody else feel this way? I know this series has been pretty popular.
Going to dip into the next Pratchett novel before getting into Authority. So onto Going Postal.
Going to dip into the next Pratchett novel before getting into Authority. So onto Going Postal.
Just finished Nemesis Games (Book 4 of Expanse Universe)
And just started The End of All Things (Book 5 of Old Man's War series)
Goddamn I love me some military scifi!
Used to read the Halo and StarCraft novels as well, until the very recent ones where it got all supernatural sappiness infused with unnecessarily cliched plot points.
And just started The End of All Things (Book 5 of Old Man's War series)
Goddamn I love me some military scifi!
Used to read the Halo and StarCraft novels as well, until the very recent ones where it got all supernatural sappiness infused with unnecessarily cliched plot points.
Nappuccino
Member
I'm curious what you think of the last 50-100 pages. I thought the book was wonderful in the first half, but there's a pretty devastating mement that I feel worked, but the book never fully recovers from it. There are plenty of neat little moments, but I'm not sure Kafka sticks the landing as well as Wind-up Bird. Though, that one has some of it's own problems. I love Murakami, but I've yet to read a novel that doesn't leave me slightly hesitant to recommend for a newbee
NandyRewman
Member
Only Blind Woman, Sleeping Willow, which I enjoyed but wasn't enraptured with in the same way. I've heard good things about 1Q84, so I think I'll check that out at some point.
I'll let you know once I finish it. The labyrinthine nature of the narrative really has me intrigued, so I'm curious to see where it'll go.
Had to stop reading A Little Life again at this line, context being
:
I just put my kindle down and sat back and told myself I'd expected it coming, yet the sheer perniciousness of it was just completely draining. What a 'vacation' the bliss of that last sequence of events turned out to be. I expected
him trying to get accustomed to having sex with Willem
I just put my kindle down and sat back and told myself I'd expected it coming, yet the sheer perniciousness of it was just completely draining. What a 'vacation' the bliss of that last sequence of events turned out to be. I expected
the relationship to go sour, but not to echo past abuse so heavily. Not just in the details but in the rhythm of it. We go through these joyous patches where Jude isn't getting destroyed and JB and Malcolm exist and Yanagihara lets herself describe bright light, and then it all starts curdling and rotting and suddenly Jude can't help but conflate Willem with Luke, starting with the taste of coffee in the other's mouth.
That's true. I remember Harold fantasizing about it, dreaming up a hypothetical where he presses charges without Jude's cooperation and realizes how futile it'd be. The Iago comparison is indeed interesting - it's not something that came to my mind at all, and the guilelessness you mention would be a big part of it, and that we are obviously reluctant to assign any blame to the victim, however slight the blame. Don't quite buy into it though, unless the last third of the book shifts Jude's characterization more. It's too easy to see past the character and at the author herself were I to think of anyone as Iago.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
bummer.. A little Life isn't available anywhere here before August apparantly. I could get it from Amazon but it would probably not get here before then anyway. I need to get a kindle or something, lol.
I didn't find Pale Fire in any book store in my home town before I left, I'm going to look for it in the stores around here though!
I didn't find Pale Fire in any book store in my home town before I left, I'm going to look for it in the stores around here though!
Completed A Long Walk to Freedom. A phenomenal telling of the Apartheid era and Nelson Mandela's impact on South Africa. I may have a slight bias to this work due to living in SA and knowing some of his references to cultural norms here. If anyone want to gain a basic grasp of recent SA history, I can't help but recommend Nelson's autobiography; he's easily one of the biggest players in changing the country.
Now I'm going to read something a tad lighter, and what could be lighter than reading about the American slave trade. Time to start on The Half That Has Never Been Told.
Now I'm going to read something a tad lighter, and what could be lighter than reading about the American slave trade. Time to start on The Half That Has Never Been Told.
Yes, that's how I see it. The Iago comparison is interesting, do you recall the name of the person on Twitter or have a link? I'd like to read the argument.
unless you already linked and I missed it/ forgot
Heh, actually you praising Edith Wharton previously is what bumped this higher up my tbr pile!
I'm not sure how abundant Pale Fire is
It is interesting. I didn't notice it either, though he did say that he noticed it on a second reading. For me, it's just something to think about for a future reading. But my initial read of Jude in that respect was very much that he tried to embody normality, and hope no one noticed its construction. Though speaking of the author, she's said that the character who is probably most similar to herself is JB.... which is also interesting if only because JB was the character in the group of friends who I most often found insufferably self-involved.
Well, it's honestly not anymore involved than that. It was just something that he said he observed on his second reading, but he didn't provide comparisons or examples or a detailed argument to support it.
Ah. Well, if analysis interests you, I'd suggest reading The Forbidden Worlds of Haruki Murakami once you've read more of his novels.
Rhomega Beta
Member
Aside from Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers along with TolkienGAF, I also decided to read The Bible, New American Standard translation. I tried reading it over 10 years ago using the NIV, but got as far as Psalms before I quit. With Kindle, I can keep my place and highlight important verses.
The Half That Has Never Been Told is a harder read than I expected. Getting through the intro and first chapter revealed how little I know about Early American history. A stellar book thus far even if I'm going at a snail pace. Aiming to read a chapter a day and to mix it with my typical news and Malcolm Gladwell's The Tipping Point.
I also finished Pluto. A crying shame this doesn't have an anime adaption. Pure eight volumes of magic.
I also finished Pluto. A crying shame this doesn't have an anime adaption. Pure eight volumes of magic.
Picking a new book after I finish a good to great one is the worst. The bar is set high and perforce my tolerance is low. Finally give up on striking gold and compromise instead by looking for something similar, but of course that doesn't work. Next thing I know I'm down this spiral where I quit on stuff earlier and earlier until I'm 5 pages in and that sentence sucks, next! I feel terrible.
This cannot be a unique phenomena. I mean, when I go through reading slumps nowadays(the days when I try to read almost daily) it's usually precipitated by finishing a great book. Finding something on back to back tries is like a 1 in 10 chance and I know I'm probably giving up to soon on some of this stuff.
This cannot be a unique phenomena. I mean, when I go through reading slumps nowadays(the days when I try to read almost daily) it's usually precipitated by finishing a great book. Finding something on back to back tries is like a 1 in 10 chance and I know I'm probably giving up to soon on some of this stuff.