What Can We Learn From Denmark? Op-ed by Senator Bernie Sanders

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders/what-can-we-learn-from-de_b_3339736.html

Interesting points, but I'm wary about adopting practices that a country that only has 6 million people and is way more dense than the US. I don't think it would translate well. Plus we've been conditioned to hate any taxes. Oh well.

Excerpt.

Danish Ambassador Peter Taksoe-Jensen spent a weekend in Vermont this month traveling with me to town meetings in Burlington, Brattleboro and Montpelier. Large crowds came out to learn about a social system very different from our own which provides extraordinary security and opportunity for the people of Denmark.

Today in the United States there is a massive amount of economic anxiety. Unemployment is much too high, wages and income are too low, millions of Americans are struggling to find affordable health care and the gap between the very rich and everyone else is growing wider.

While young working families search desperately for affordable child care, older Americans worry about how they can retire with dignity. Many of our people are physically exhausted as they work the longest hours of any industrialized country and have far less paid vacation time than other major countries

Denmark is a small, homogenous nation of about 5.5 million people. The United States is a melting pot of more than 315 million people. No question about it, Denmark and the United States are very different countries. Nonetheless, are there lessons that we can learn from Denmark?

In Denmark, social policy in areas like health care, child care, education and protecting the unemployed are part of a "solidarity system" that makes sure that almost no one falls into economic despair. Danes pay very high taxes, but in return enjoy a quality of life that many Americans would find hard to believe. As the ambassador mentioned, while it is difficult to become very rich in Denmark no one is allowed to be poor. The minimum wage in Denmark is about twice that of the United States and people who are totally out of the labor market or unable to care for themselves have a basic income guarantee of about $100 per day.

Health care in Denmark is universal, free of charge and high quality. Everybody is covered as a right of citizenship. The Danish health care system is popular, with patient satisfaction much higher than in our country. In Denmark, every citizen can choose a doctor in their area. Prescription drugs are inexpensive and free for those under 18 years of age. Interestingly, despite their universal coverage, the Danish health care system is far more cost-effective than ours. They spend about 11 percent of their GDP on health care. We spend almost 18 percent.

When it comes to raising families, Danes understand that the first few years of a person's life are the most important in terms of intellectual and emotional development. In order to give strong support to expecting parents, mothers get four weeks of paid leave before giving birth. They get another 14 weeks afterward. Expecting fathers get two paid weeks off, and both parents have the right to 32 more weeks of leave during the first nine years of a child's life. The state covers three-quarters of the cost of child care, more for lower-income workers.

At a time when college education in the United States is increasingly unaffordable and the average college graduate leaves school more than $25,000 in debt, virtually all higher education in Denmark is free. That includes not just college but graduate schools as well, including medical school.

In a volatile global economy, the Danish government recognizes that it must invest heavily in training programs so workers can learn new skills to meet changing workforce demands. It also understands that when people lose their jobs they must have adequate income while they search for new jobs. If a worker loses his or her job in Denmark, unemployment insurance covers up to 90 percent of earnings for as long as two years. Here benefits can be cut off after as few as 26 weeks....
 
I am curious how much rhetoric there is in Denmark about how these programs "just allow the lazy and unworthy to leech off of society and pop out more children"

Because really, I think the US has a massive rhetoric problem when it comes to social programs.
 
Wouldn't happen anyways even if it would work. The lobbyists hold too much power and have bought and paid for the entire political system here in the US.
 
I am curious how much rhetoric there is in Denmark about how these programs "just allow the lazy and unworthy to leech off of society and pop out more children"

Because really, I think the US has a massive rhetoric problem when it comes to social programs.

Quite a bit, actually. I'll try to dig up the piece but there was a fairly big debate about reform recently, after it was discovered that people living on welfare in many cases were making a lot more money than those at the bottom end of the jobs ladder.

It is very generous, but to their credit the debate seems to have been pretty sane and reasonable about reforming the system to provide more incentives to work.
 
Wouldn't happen anyways even if it would work. The lobbyists hold too much power and have bought and paid for the entire political system here in the US.

Pretty much.

Corporations have a symbiotic relationship with government. So, any change means changes to their bottom lines. They will do anything they can to maintain the status quo.

You just look at Obamacare, which is a pretty small change (in the grand scheme of things) and it barely passed through and it will turn out to be a massive handout to the insurance/medical industry. They will adapt and profit and then use those profits to fight to keep it the status quo.
 
I dream of the Scandinavian model. If we don't go independent I'm looking into moving over to Stockholm where a friend moved a couple of years ago.
 
I am curious how much rhetoric there is in Denmark about how these programs "just allow the lazy and unworthy to leech off of society and pop out more children"

Because really, I think the US has a massive rhetoric problem when it comes to social programs.

This is actually a topic that is under a heated discussion right now. Some people claim that the citizens, who are on wellfare, is living like kings and because of the high income from the "government/state" they have no intentions on getting a job. Ever. Others are saying that people on wellfare doesn't get enough money and help, so that they can pull themself out of their situation.

There has been examples like Dovne Robert (Lazy Robert), who outright said that he didn't want to work. Claiming why should he, when he gets everything payed by the state.
People like him and his supporters are in the very minority though.

I can only speak for myself. I am 27, from Denmark and i am currently on wellfare. No kids, no car, rental apartment. Until recent i worked at a small grocery store, which had to close. I get 8400DK a month, which is 1500 US Dollars. If i had a job, i would make twice as much a month.

I hate being on wellfare. I can't imagine that a lot of my fellow countrymen would either. The problem about it in its current form is, that any fortune exciding 10.000DK must be spend before you are allowed on the wellfare program. So if you loose your job, you pretty quckly start loosing your lifesavings, then your car(s), then whatever else you have of value. Then, and only then are you allowed wellfare.

This makes it pretty difficult to get back on the horse, so to speak. Especially since we have an exceeding amount of citizens on wellfare, factorys closing, and not a lot of new jobs available.

Edit - There are ofcourse a lot of other pros and cons about our system, but i only type with two fingers so it would take forever to write down :D
 
My eyes jumped and for some reason I read that as Senator Bernie Mac.

That would have been so crazy awesome. "America...America....we need to talk."
 
I am curious how much rhetoric there is in Denmark about how these programs "just allow the lazy and unworthy to leech off of society and pop out more children"

Because really, I think the US has a massive rhetoric problem when it comes to social programs.

Blame our Purantical heritage. They all left Europe lol.
 
Blame our Purantical heritage. They all left Europe lol.

It's with deep historical irony that the states first set up by the puritans in this country i.e. New England, are the most liberal, least religious of the whole country.

But that's a topic for a different thread.
 
I always hear the "they're homogenous though" argument when it comes to comparing us to northern Europe. Not sure if I buy it. Anyone have an opinion on this?
 
I always hear the "they're homogenous though" argument when it comes to comparing us to northern Europe. Not sure if I buy it. Anyone have an opinion on this?

I'm never quite sure what it is either. Is the argument that people's dislike for social programs might intensify if the programs benefit races they "have views" on?
 
The Nordic Model seems like a good compromise between socialism and the free market. I think every Western country should strive for it at the very least.
 
I'm never quite sure what it is either. Is the argument that people's dislike for social programs might intensify if the programs benefit races they "have views" on?

Swede here. While anecdotal, I think this is definitely the case. I mostly agree with "intensify" though, a lot of people would probably still dislike it even if it only benefited natives.
 
The Nordic Model seems like a good compromise between socialism and the free market. I think every Western country should strive for it at the very least.

You mean there is some value in social utilitarianism? Shocking!
 
I am curious how much rhetoric there is in Denmark about how these programs "just allow the lazy and unworthy to leech off of society and pop out more children"

Because really, I think the US has a massive rhetoric problem when it comes to social programs.

Not much, i live in Denmark (not a dane tough). The sentiment is "why would you not want to have a job? what would you do with your free time?", its not just about money its also having a purpose, meeting new people and leading a more active and interesting life rather than just watching TV all day. Ive had conversations with many danes in regards what they would do if they won Lotto (lottery) most say they would still work, just to have something to do. That might sound really alien and strange to some people maybe in other countries.

The idea is that, yes there will be a small percentage of people who will abuse the system and various programs, requirements and laws are passed to detect such fraud. But the idea is that these few people should not ruin it for the rest of us who actually do want to contribute. Allowing the few lazy and unmotivated people to take away something that is so unique to this country is not worth it. Having a safety net is a great comforting thought, lose your job? Here you have 2 years to find another, you also get help to find one in case you are struggling with it

It seems to me that in America, the mere suggestion that there might be some lazy bastard, laying around, playing videogames and leeching from society will scare an average American into not wanting such a system.

Again i do not know, but that is how it seems to me looking towards America. It is very easy to scare people from something that would actually benefit them all in the end. That generally seems to work really well in American politics, fear works remarkably well.

Denmark is not some paradise, there are some problems, but in comparison to most other countries, yeah it is superior. And i say that as someone who lives here, i should be complaining but really it is as good as you can get in this world in 2013 pretty much
 
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