Support NeoGAF

[Deft Beck]

Final Fantasy XIV is releasing its second expansion, Stormblood, in June. It's remarkable how the game has progressed since the initial launch of the much-criticized original iteration to a very respectable successor to FFXI.

Guild Wars 2 has been updating steadily, and has proven how an initial buy-in with additional charges only for major expansions, in lieu of a subscription fee, can be a sustainable economic model.

We've also seen a number of other competitors; Elder Scrolls Online faced the challenge of bringing in players from a well-known single player series; Wildstar attempted to pivot towards lapsed WoW players, but even an extensive marketing campaign across multiple media channels failed to create a sustainable player base, thus causing the free-to-play changes.

And then there are multiplayer games such as Rust, Conan: Exiles, and other survival-centric games with large player-bases. They aren't MMORPGs, but they are still multiplayer on a massive scale. And in that regard, their player culture and resulting game economy is markedly different than traditional MMOs.

Now, I wonder how the next generation of MMOs will be structured, marketed, and configured in response to player feedback. I think that the MMO genre has a lot to take from the gatcha and mobile gaming worlds; games which can be played at any time, anywhere, and on almost any mobile device are somewhat opposed to games which mostly require you to be at a stationary device, often with medium to high levels of graphic performance and computational power.

What if there was an MMO which allowed you to take your character with you via some sort of companion app? Perhaps you aren't running around the 3D world, but you'd still be able to accomplish certain goals, such as crafting items, trading resources, or otherwise contributing toward your individual (or group, if you are in a guild) goals. I think that would be a great way of ensuring that players keep engaged with a game goal without tethering them to a computer. It would also open the door to more casual players who use mostly mobile devices.

What do you think is the future of the MMO?

 

[Gothos]

I'm not sure there even will be any true "next generation" MMO. I expect more small scale, more hardcore projects.

 

[Levito]

MMOs are in an interesting place in that there's like 4-5 well supported games that have healthy communities. WoW, FFXIV, ESO, and GW2 all are doing well from what I understand.


It feels like there's no big upcoming MMORPGs on the horizon though. Everyone wants the psuedo mmo loot games like Destiny now.

 

[Shanlei91]

Would be cool if a company could accomplish what Everquest Next wanted to do.

 

[Deft Beck]

Would be cool if a company could accomplish what Everquest Next wanted to do.

What did they want to achieve?

 

[PulseONE]

Major MMOs, I feel, are going to go the hybrid way like Destiny, The Division etc

It's easier to make AAA quality visuals when you can limit the amount of players you might see at any given time, and it allows for more complex, action oriented gameplay, which is what they're using to draw in non-MMO players

But I would really like to see someone shake things up, most MMOs we see are coming out of the East, which is fine, they actually tend to have alot of promising ideas, but I feel like they fall behind in others, while some just feel like an excuse for Microtransactions.

I'd like to see a new big western MMO that doesn't go the instanced route and moves away from the WoW style hotbar tab targeting type gameplay (aside from the already existing ones of course, like ESO), I guess we shall see what happens

What did they want to achieve?

Sandbox style gameplay, fully destructible environments, players could build whatever they wanted, etc

Most of the in-game models were gonna be player made too, things from Landmark or whatever it was called

 

[Parzival Qc]

Just bring City of heroes back and I would be a happy man. I'm keeping an eye on Valiance Online and Ship of heroes. I just miss CoH soooo much!

 

[daveo42]

The ability to spend unlimited amount of time playing an MMO while that fact not impacting my work and social life. Like some sort of dlc hyperbolic time chamber.

 

[texhnolyze]

I'm not sure there even will be any true "next generation" MMO. I expect more small scale, more hardcore projects.

This. High-budget MMOs are dead.

 

[fluffydelusions]

I wonder how many active subs WoW has now.

 

[Deft Beck]

I'd like to see a new big western MMO that doesn't go the instanced route and moves away from the WoW style hotbar tab targeting type gameplay (aside from the already existing ones of course, like ESO), I guess we shall see what happens

The issue with getting rid of the hotbar is that the player likes to see that hotbar fill up with skills as they continue to play. Aside from the usual progress bars, it scratches that progression itch in an obvious way.

Sandbox style gameplay, fully destructible environments, players could build whatever they wanted, etc

Most of the in-game models were gonna be player made too, things from Landmark or whatever it was called

Ah, I see. Might have been too hard to execute, in the end.

 

[yuraya]

I just want the next gen of MMO's to be very ambitious. Like Star Citizen. Hopefully that game is able to set the standard.

 

[E-flux]

What did they want to achieve?

The part that had me the most excited was that it was supposed to have an "leader" AI for the monster and creatures in the world, like if players started killing a shitload of goblins that would signal a war for the goblins and they would start to reinforce their borders. Or how if people would hunt all the wildlife from the forests then wolves and other predators might get desperate enough to attack players because of the lack of food. Stuff like that, Ultima online tried something similar when it launched by having a finite number of creatures but it didn't really pan out since after a while every place was absent of enemies, but i had hopes for Next. And it seemed to have some sandbox elements which are always welcome in mmos with city council roles and house building that it seemed like it could be different enough.

 

[Yoda]

I don't think we'll ever see a large based sub MMO again. As a result, any MMO that comes out will have some form of micro-transactions, and lean more towards a lobby w/an attached "open world" you can explore if you choose too. While it certainly isn't my cup of tea, that's where the demand is from the younger generation.

 

[Sectorseven]

The traditional model never really made sense anyway. People power through the low level stuff and all that content is essentially wasted.

 

[PulseONE]

The issue with getting rid of the hotbar is that the player likes to see that hotbar fill up with skills as they continue to play. Aside from the usual progress bars, it scratches that progression itch in an obvious way.



Ah, I see. Might have been too hard to execute, in the end.

You can achieve satisfactory progress in other ways, it can be seen in basically any game that doesn't use hotbars, yet has satisfactory skill progression. You still get more abilities and stuff, but allow the player to use it in ways other than just via hotbar is what I meant

And yeah, I'm not entirely sure why, but they couldn't do it in the end, such a shame. That might have been the next big step in MMOs, had it worked out imo

 

[ScatheZombie]

As an ex-MMO dev, what I've seen from the other side is...

1) No one wants to make a traditional MMO anymore. There was a time during the height of WoW that every major publisher was funding a traditional MMO trying to capture a piece of WoW's success and build upon pre-WoW MMOs like Everquest. That interest has pretty much completely eroded and publishers are instead snatching up MMO devs to work on games that mimic the online community of MMOs like Destiny or the Division to build MMO-like systems to facilitate those communities. I know, for example, several members of the Rift team now make Destiny raids. Several others have moved into MOBAs, Hero Shooters, and other online-heavy games that aren't your typical MMO fare. Veteran MMO developers are no longer making MMOs, they're working on every other type of online game.

2) Everyone wants China. Last I had heard, something over half of WoW's current active players are in Asia territories. As MMOs flounder in NA/EU because of shifting markets and the distaste those player bases have for microtransactions, China has soared in comparison. Chinese players don't care about microtransactions, loot boxes, or even pay-to-win mechanics. They embrace them, if anything. So while the traditional MMO market has whined about monetization schemes necessary to keep these massively bloated and expensive behemoths afloat, China has welcomed just about every dirty money-making scheme in the book with open arms. MMOs that have died on the vine in the NA/EU for a multitude of reasons have ultimately found either success or at least sustainability in the Asia market. You will continue to see these games pander to the market that actually makes them money.

 

[SargerusBR]

I don't think the MMO genre will ever change until VR MMO becomes a thing.

 

[cheesekao]

The core issue I have with most MMO's is the gameplay. The ones that have gameplay that match that of top tier AAA games are almost impossible to find.

 

[Sophia]

I think the next big MMO, assuming it actually gets made, is going to move away from the World of Warcraft inspired model. There's a niche right now for a high quality MMO that has Dark Souls/Monster Hunter based combat, but while keeping all the features of a traditional MMO.

It's a shame that Dragon Quest X and Phantasy Star Online 2 were not localized. They're both very high quality games, and very different from the stuff currently on the market.

As an ex-MMO dev, what I've seen from the other side is...

1) No one wants to make a traditional MMO anymore. There was a time during the height of WoW that every major publisher was funding a traditional MMO trying to capture a piece of WoW's success and build upon pre-WoW MMOs like Everquest. That interest has pretty much completely eroded and publishers are instead snatching up MMO devs to work on games that mimic the online community of MMOs like Destiny or the Division to build MMO-like systems to facilitate those communities. I know, for example, several members of the Rift team now make Destiny raids. Several others have moved into MOBAs, Hero Shooters, and other online-heavy games that aren't your typical MMO fare. Veteran MMO developers are no longer making MMOs, they're working on every other type of online game.

It's no surprise the interest there has completely eroded. We had so many MMOs that basically tried to be "World of Warcraft with a gimmick!" and they failed hard.

 

[Deft Beck]

I just want the next gen of MMO's to be very ambitious. Like Star Citizen. Hopefully that game is able to set the standard.

But that ambition only contributes towards the failure of games before they even start, as we saw with Everquest Next. Games like Elite: Dangerous and Star Citizen are another class of MMO entirely, in my opinion. They have more of a focus on resource gathering and a much more abstracted game world, over that of the themepark style MMOs we've been seeing as of late.

The traditional model never really made sense anyway. People power through the low level stuff and all that content is essentially wasted.

Depends on how strongly motivated new players are. Sometimes you get players who don't even make it up to the free play level cap, if they just don't mesh with the mechanics and world.

You can achieve satisfactory progress in other ways, it can be seen in basically any game that doesn't use hotbars, yet has satisfactory skill progression. You still get more abilities and stuff, but allow the player to use it in ways other than just via hotbar is what I meant

Right, that makes sense. I thought GW2 tried doing that a bit but ultimately didn't commit to it.

 

[Kyne]

whatever it is, I hope it's Destiny 2.

my body is definitely not ready.

 

[Azzurri]

Will see what Amazons New World will bring

 

[Exploratory]

For them to not exist. Games like Destiny and The Division sure. Games like WoW? No.

 

[4Tran]

2) Everyone wants China. Last I had heard, something over half of WoW's current active players are in Asia territories. As MMOs flounder in NA/EU because of shifting markets and the distaste those player bases have for microtransactions, China has soared in comparison. Those players don't care about microtransactions, loot boxes, or even pay-to-win mechanics. They embrace them, if anything. So while the traditional MMO market has whined about monetization schemes necessary to keep these massively bloated and expensive behemoths afloat, China has welcomed just about every dirty money-making scheme in the book with open arms. MMOs that have died on the vine in the NA/EU for a multitude of reasons have ultimately found either success or at least sustainability in the Asia market. You will continue to see these games pander to the market that actually makes them money.

South Korea is going to be pretty important as well. These are the two territories still churning out new MMOs, and it probably has a lot to do with how the gaming culture in those places differ from the rest of the world. I'd expect more Asian-developed MMOs in the future, and for MMOs to be either F2P or employ a lot of F2P-flavored revenue generation.

 

[Levito]

It's no surprise the interest there has completely eroded. We had so many MMOs that basically tried to be "World of Warcraft with a gimmick!" and they failed hard.

That's really what hurt MMORPGs in the long run. From 2007-2012 there was SOOO many MMORPGs that were just mediocre knock offs of WoW. Warhammer Online, Rift, Aeon. It burnt a lot of players out.

 

[DrBo42]

I think we'll see a large move away from MMOs and more towards MP with social spaces like Destiny and now CoD WWII. Now that publishers have data that nothing can really stand against or compete with WoW or FFXIV without being content heavy not sure they'll take the chance. Although somehow SWTOR marches on so maybe I'm totally off.

 

[c0Zm1c]

Guild Wars 2 has been updating steadily, and has proven how an initial buy-in with additional charges only for major expansions, in lieu of a subscription fee, can be a sustainable economic model.

Guild Wars 1 already proved that. It's the better game too by a large margin. Stronger cooperative component and enormous build variety. I'm still waiting for a proper sequel, spiritual or otherwise. Just an engine/graphical remaster of the original game would be enough actually. It's still unique among online RPGs as best as I'm aware.

 

[Shanlei91]

What did they want to achieve?

The fully destructible environment had me the most excited. A mage being able to generate terrain that can block enemies, giant fights that destroy everything around you, etc.

Gameplay of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G82ckeYWwZ0

 

[Cuningas de Häme]

I think that we will see MMO-lites like many of the online games today (Destiny, survival games etc.). Publishers want that sweet, sweet "games as a service"-money and who can blame them? It gives length to a game and gives solid income for the makers.

I think (or at least hope) that we will have some contestants in the "second life"-category, some kind of life simulator where you don't have to be a mass murderer or follow a set path.




I just want something where I can actually be a blacksmith, farmer or a monk (as in a fellow living in a monastery -type) WITHOUT the game being some kind of HC PvP wank fest.

All I want is a persistent world where you can be whatever you want. And preferably in a way that supports many playstyles. Like make playermade weapons and armor clearly better than others, give purpose to gatherers (their own class and only them able to gather resources from the wilderness) etc. It would be mainly PvE with separate regions for PvP (like SW:ToR and the Tatooine place). Warriors could fight dragons and whatnot, gaining fame and fortune and even a chance to rise in the nobility.

If I was any better at making games AND filthy rich I'd make a game like that. It would probably be a nichest of a niche, but who cares.

 

[Lord of Ostia]

Not sure there is really room for another big budget MMO anymore. There are already multiple big players in that space, and multiplayer games with heavy competitive elements seem to have taken their place (Destiny, CA, Overwatch, MOBAs) as the go-to, broad audience multiplayer titles.

 

[Herbspiceguy]

I'm mainly interested in the crowdfunded revival of oldskool MMORPG's: Camelot Unleashed (Dark age of Camelot), Crowfall (Shadowbane) and Pantheon (Everquest).
To me there's nothing interesting going on in the mass market, AAA+ budget space.

 

[SargerusBR]

I think we'll see a large move away from MMOs and more towards MP with social spaces like Destiny and now CoD WWII. Now that publishers have data that nothing can really stand against or compete with WoW or FFXIV without being content heavy not sure they'll take the chance. Although somehow SWTOR marches on so maybe I'm totally off.

SWTOR is barely a MMO these days, past two expansions were heavily focused on solo content, and the game had no new raids for almost 3-4 years until recently.

 

[Toni]

Strong Off-line compability features that allows you to play the area you left at until a certain point.

(Facebook does this with the News Feed and evrything that you liked, shared or posted will be put in when you come back online)

More accessible internet connection for folks with slow internet.

Reduced lag extensively

The ability for developers to implement any sort of features by themselves / by hand, at any given moment without having to kick out players out of the game to add the content (Live updates)

 

[vitalogy11]

Next Gen will be a trend of AAA brands incorporating MMO features and expanding on them.

Like others said with Destiny and Division. I'm sure soon we may even see established franchise take a stab at it. It wouldn't surprise me if something like an Assassins Creed went to a open world/mmo hybrid.

Heck I think I even saw the new COD will have an online lobby that is keen to mmo hubs and cities.

After that markets blends the hell out of the genre I could see a "Classic" MMO niche genre spark back up, especially on PC.

 

[Soroc]

Next Gen will be a trend of AAA brands incorporating MMO features and expanding on them.

Like others said with Destiny and Division. I'm sure soon we may even see established franchise take a stab at it. It wouldn't surprise me if something like an Assassins Creed went to a open world/mmo hybrid.

Heck I think I even saw the new COD will have an online lobby that is keen to mmo hubs and cities.

After that markets blends the hell out of the genre I could see a "Classic" MMO niche genre spark back up, especially on PC.

Pantheon has been quietly building momentum after their failed kickstarter. I do think there is still a demand for that "classic" mmo niche experience, it will be very interesting to watch and see how the market responds to Pantheon if they can get the game out by next year.

Edit: Anyone interested can see the latest twitch stream gameplay from yesterday right here

 

[ZiZ]

There's so much room for MMOs to evolve.

I was really hoping we'd have huge sandbox MMOs by now.
I hope they get rid of the whole Tank/DPS/Healer system.

What if there was an MMO which allowed you to take your character with you via some sort of companion app? Perhaps you aren't running around the 3D world, but you'd still be able to accomplish certain goals, such as crafting items, trading resources, or otherwise contributing toward your individual (or group, if you are in a guild) goals. I think that would be a great way of ensuring that players keep engaged with a game goal without tethering them to a computer. It would also open the door to more casual players who use mostly mobile devices.

FFXIV is working on something similar. I believe you'll be able to talk with members of your Free Company and direct your retainers to sell on the market board.

 

[Wagram]

It needs to move away from the theme-park model.

 

[Syf]

It needs to move away from the theme-park model.

This is what I really want.

 

[yanipheonu]

I sorta want a Wow 2, if only because it may force a paradigm shift in the genre.

Things are bit stagnant right now. I love Ffxiv but I won't pretend they aren't iterating on the ideas WOW established. GW2 has cool ideas, but the content droughts and other problems made me back away from it.

I do appreciate the Destiny/The Divison application of Mmo elements to other genres, though no one has really mastered it yet.

Feels like there's so much more we could be doing with MMOs is all. Hope we see some interesting changes in the future.

 

[Hux1ey]

There's a niche right now for a high quality MMO that has Dark Souls/Monster Hunter based combat, but while keeping all the features of a traditional MMO.

Really surprised this hasn't happened.

An MMO with engaging combat would be awesome