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[IJoel]

Why I thought it was relevant: The only backtracking I did in the game was to hunt for the final artifact. I honestly can't remember a single moment of backtracking beyond that. At what specific point did Metroid fail you here?

As for the doors, they didn't disrupt what I felt was a seamless alien world. The doors are a franchise staple that almost always opened without hesitation. They were no more obtrusive than, say, any door in a Zelda game.

Ok, hold it RIGHT THERE! I found myself doing lots of backtracking in the game. So much that I even stopped playing it (got to about 75% of it), though I intend on finishing it before Echoes is released.

As for the level design, I don't think there's anything particularly great about it. Sure all the areas are connected but that doesn't make the design brilliant. For me level design brilliance is about how much a level produces interaction with the gameplay and, well I just didn't see that in such a big way (other than the platforming elements, which I thought were good, but not great.) This is why I mention Prince of Persia, because everything inside the level was thought of in relation to the gameplay. Sure, there was nice architecture and detail in Metroid Prime, but this isn't really paramount in the level design area (as it pertains to this question.)

Take Ninja Gaiden, for instance. I loved how all the levels and areas were connected, but I don't think it's really a superb game in terms of level design (and like MP, for the game to be great, the level design doesn't need to be because that's not the focus of the game.)

 

[drohne]

often in metroid prime you see a door you can't open or an item you can't reach until you've acquired some ability later in the game. that's actually a staple of metroid design, but it goes sour in prime simply because traversing the map is so slow and the rewards are so often trifling. i particularly remember a red door in the phazon mines. i remember dragging samus across some obscene stretch of map, fighting through all those color coded space pirates, and opening that red door. i don't remember what was behind that red door, but i do remember that it was so utterly nugatory and insulting that i shut the system off without saving.

i thought metroid prime was a studious but basically uninspired attempt to clone a proper metroid game. no more and no less. i dislike it less for its troughs than for its absence of peaks, and i don't expect its reputation to last.

 

[Rorschach]

Counter-Strike and TFC

I've played de_dust and de_dust2 a billion times.

PS: Halo? WTF?!

 

[Goreomedy]

often in metroid prime you see a door you can't open or an item you can't reach until you've acquired some ability later in the game. that's actually a staple of metroid design, but it goes sour in prime simply because traversing the map is so slow and the rewards are so often trifling. i particularly remember a red door in the phazon mines. i remember dragging samus across some obscene stretch of map, fighting through all those color coded space pirates, and opening that red door. i don't remember what was behind that red door, but i do remember that it was so utterly nugatory and insulting that i shut the system off without saving.

I was actually worried how they'd handle this, because I too hate backtracking. I played Metroid Prime on Normal, without a strategy guide. I completed it at 70something percent. I do remember the door you mention in the Phazon Mines, but I don't think I ever went back to it. Sounds like it was a good thing I didn't.

What impressed me about the design, was how everything I needed was always in front of me. Or the path was clear. The few times I probably would have been left scratching my head, the computer would open my map and show me the way. But that didn't happen so often I felt like I was being coddled. Every time I needed one, there'd be a shortcut or a new lift to help me traverse large areas of the map. Everything "clicked" for me. Did I just luck out?

 

[JackFrost2012]

My vote goes for ICO, if only because of the way it all flows and interlocks so smoothly that it doesn't feel like a "level" ... it's just a place.

Also, has anyone mentioned System Shock 1 and 2? If not, YOU ALL HAVE TO REPEAT THE THIRD GRADE.

 

[MetatronM]

Zelda: OoT
--> The water temple was outstanding

The Water Temple is one of the worst experiences I can remember in gaming.

Best Level Design, though, is too tough for me to even begin to narrow down all the games I've played. So I won't even attempt to do so.

 

[Teddman]

Metroid NES had great level design at the time. Ditto Zero Mission.

 

[Funky Papa]

Blood: The fair (mimes!)

Blood: The haunted mansion

I know I have a weird fixation with Blood, but I've never seen so much love and so much talent on a single videogame.

 

[Semjaza Azazel]

I love how anyone that enjoys a Nintendo game beyond the "jaded" people here is somehow a drone. MP is definitely not a perfect game, but any of the bitching I see here is due to staples in the franchise. Did no one else backtrack in any of the other Metroid games? It wasn't so frequent that I found it to be a problem in MP. Even if you don't like the backtracking aspect and have some problem with there being lava and ice areas (which are admittedly cliche), the maps themselves were interesting and well executed.

If you don't like the game or its level design, than cool. What the fuck do I care? But I'm sick of being pidgeonholed into some group of "idiotic Nintendo fanboy drones" who are "idiotic" simply because they don't happen to agree with a handful of people who don't seem to like much of anything in the first place.

 

[Teddman]

I love how anyone that enjoys a Nintendo game beyond the "jaded" people here is somehow a drone. MP is definitely not a perfect game, but any of the bitching I see here is due to staples in the franchise. Did no one else backtrack in any of the other Metroid games?

Backtracking was made more painful because it took much longer in Prime than in 2D Metroid games. There was no space jump, no speed boots, no screw attack, no real shortcuts... All aspects that make late-stage backtracking more tolerable in the other Metroid games.

And moving around in 2D is just plain faster.

 

[boutrosinit]

ALL OF THEM BECAUSE I'M A NINNY WHO LACKS -- what was it? -- PATIENCE AND PERCEPTION.

but actually i don't remember. probably two or three. not that it's even vaguely relevant.

I loved the game upto the big Phazon boss. Then the pace changed and it became more about battling pirates and I still enjoyed it, though not as much. The Artifact quests varied from great fun to mudane. The one in the ice caverns was annoying.

I loved the game dearly. People I know who hated it were either expecting an FPS or an RPG - not a hybrid. I played it with no expectations and found that the level design was beautifully suited to balance the mixed gameplay exceptionally well.

The forest level, the ice caverns and lava stages are particular examples that spring to mind. Some of the puzzles within - the visor puzzles, the ball puzzles - are exquisite.

 

[Alcibiades]

though Metroid Prime was probably my favorite game of '02 (probably for atmosphere, music, and gameplay), I have to say that it didn't really come to mind when thinking "best level design ever".

Actually, I think the overall game design is great, and the level design as you explore each area is really awesome, I wouldn't call it "overrated", and I got a lot of artifacts at the very end, that didn't make the level design bad for me at all, it was still really awesome, some of the best maybe, but certainly not better than the focused dungeons of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, which to this day are really awesome.

That said, my nod my go to Mario Sunshine, which although wasn't my favorite game of '02 (a pinch less fun that Metroid Prime), and wasn't as polished as prime (had a few rough edges), just totally wowed me with game design (gameplay + level).

The first two levels (one with the jumping cords and seaport with gate obstacles) were freaking awesome just to play around in, and I've gone back to the game to enjoy just messin' around. From the very first level to the very last level, I think Mario Sunshine totally hit the right design (including the simple, but challenging old-school-in-3d areas). The only major problem I had with the whole game was the underwhelming final stage/sequence. Other than that, this game deserves to be mentioned among Ocarina of Time and Super Metroid among "best games ever". In all honesty, I didn't enjoy it quite as much as Metroid Prime (though I still enjoyed it almost as much at Prime, the challenge and camera got to me a few times), but I'd be lying if after looking back at both playing experiences, Mario Sunshine wasn't the bettter game...

 

[Prine]

GTA 3 < Best overall
Goldeneye
Zelda WW

Medriod Prime? WTF?

Backtrack fever, phanzon mines is absolutley horrible! Argh! And the levels were too verticle!

Who kept mising jumps? I despised starting from the bottom when i wanted to leave a room, especially when she moves like a whale. Turn, turn, turn TURN GODDAMIT!

 

[human5892]

LoZ
LoZ: OoT
LoZ: Majora's Mask
Goldeneye
Banjo-Kazooie
The entire Super Mario Bros. series

 

[D2M15]

Thief, specifically The Sword, which is patently the Best Level Ever. Guess girls just know how to do level design better than boys do.

 

[User 406]

I agree with a lot of posts in this thread, like Tomb Raider, ICO, and Space Taxi, but one I haven't seen mentioned yet is Jet Moto 2. With the secret tracks from Jet Moto included, Jet Moto 2 has some of the most inventively vicious and brutal race courses ever made.

Man, I'd kill for a Jet Moto 2 remake.

 

[Tim]

Shenmue 2 (personal favourite

How about some games from the 16-bit era?
Golden Axe, Aladdin (megadrive), Streets of Rage 2...

Another personal favourite of mine is Sonic Adventures on DC.

 

[Azih]

Shalebridge Cradle in Thief 3 is something that keeps on coming to my mind recently.

 

[=W=]

For FPS, I'll vote for NOLF 1 and 2. Mmmmm, NOLF.

+1

 

[Mr Gump]

Stone Temple in Majora's Mask.

Forest Temple in Ocarina of Time.

 

[buck naked]

Deus Ex for the open ended design. Few games handle it as well. Goldeneye for originality, mission design, and the amazing movie set-to-game recreation.

I loved the quirkiness of Wario Land 4 on the GBA. The Klonoa games are pretty good too. For 3D platformers... Space Station Silicon Valley and Rayman 2 deserve credit.

Mario 64 and Halo are both really sparse, but in both cases it's the gameplay mechanics that are revolutionary.

EDIT: I thought the Max Payne games were really tight, if totally linear. Very polished.

Also, the Tony Hawk franchise. The lines built into the levels and the way the environment is used (jumps, grinds, wall rides, and flat-land) leaves other action sport games feeling lack-lustre. I think Agressive Inline had some better gameplay ideas, but the level design couldn't keep up.

 

[Red Dolphin]

GTA 3 < Best overall
Goldeneye
Zelda WW

Medriod Prime? WTF?

Backtrack fever, phanzon mines is absolutley horrible! Argh! And the levels were too verticle!

Who kept mising jumps? I despised starting from the bottom when i wanted to leave a room, especially when she moves like a whale. Turn, turn, turn TURN GODDAMIT!

I've never heard anyone complain that Metroid Prime stages were too vertical. I thought one of the most common complaints was they were too horizontal compared to the older games. And the jumping was so easy...

 

[rastex]

JSR and JSRF have amazing level design.
Sonic (Casino level!!)
Mario 64- Tick Tock Clock, Rainbow Road, etc etc
Super Mario Kart
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Jumping Flash

And I also agree with Jet Moto 2.

 

[Vieo]

The only thing I didn't like about Metroid Prime were the space pirates that you could only damage with a certain weapon. It took a long time for me to get used to that, because in all the other FPS games I've played, any gun can damage an enemy, so you can just go through a room mowing down everything in sight without worrying who your weapon is powerless against.

 

[JasoNsider]

Zelda: Four Swords Adventure
Super Metroid
Metroid Prime
Zelda: A Link to the Past
Super Mario Bros. 3

The usual suspects really.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario World
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
Super Mario 64
Doom II: Hell on Earth
Banjo-Kazooie
Tomb Raider (original)
Landstalker
Boulder Dash I & II
Prince of Persia (original)
Rolling Thunder (original)
Gunstar Heroes
Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse
Super Castlevania IV
Rondo of Blood
Castlevania: Bloodlines
Strider (original)
Ghouls 'n' Ghosts (original)
Halo
Metroid (original)
Super Metroid
GTA III
Body Harvest
Cobra Triangle
Solar Jetman
Adventure
Blaster Master
Battle of Olympus
R-Type (original)
M.U.S.H.A.
Granada
Ninja Gaiden (new one)
Gaiares
Goldeneye
SkyBlazer
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Sky Odyssey
Earthworm Jum (original)
Kid Icarus
Super Bagman/Bagman
Raiders of the Lost Ark (original)
Metal Gear(original)/Metal Gear 2

Ahhhh...too many.

 

[Necroscope]

Metroid Prime for 3D level design.

 

[FortNinety]

I love how anyone that enjoys a Nintendo game beyond the "jaded" people here is somehow a drone. MP is definitely not a perfect game, but any of the bitching I see here is due to staples in the franchise. Did no one else backtrack in any of the other Metroid games? It wasn't so frequent that I found it to be a problem in MP. Even if you don't like the backtracking aspect and have some problem with there being lava and ice areas (which are admittedly cliche), the maps themselves were interesting and well executed.

If you don't like the game or its level design, than cool. What the fuck do I care? But I'm sick of being pidgeonholed into some group of "idiotic Nintendo fanboy drones" who are "idiotic" simply because they don't happen to agree with a handful of people who don't seem to like much of anything in the first place.

STFU drone. Certain folks here don't want to be reminded that brainless Nintendo bashing is at point extremely tired.

That being said, it's pretty much official: Nintendo games, far and away, feature the best level designs you'll ever find anywhere. Hell, they practically invented it.

 

[clipunderground]

Backtracking was made more painful because it took much longer in Prime than in 2D Metroid games. There was no space jump, no speed boots, no screw attack, no real shortcuts... All aspects that make late-stage backtracking more tolerable in the other Metroid games.

And moving around in 2D is just plain faster.

No shortcuts? I can beat the game in less then three hours. There's definately shortcuts buster!


Btw- All this bitching about backtracking and not being able to get in certain doors is lame. Metroid Prime is a near perfect translation from it's 2d counter part. The only difference is it's 3d. I really can't understand how any real metroid fan can hate Prime.. Seriously. WTF where you expecting? A non Metroid, Metroid game?

 

[Hitman]

THANK YOU OH SENSIBLE ONES. MP is so goddamn fucking overrated in more ways than I can count. The level design is so cliched, unoriginal and requires so much goddamn back-tracking and allows for zero true exploration. I guess, for its purposes, it's very "tight" design, and it sure is pretty. That's all I can say about it though.

Again, no exaggeration, the game is so overrated it's disgusting. Ugh. But of course, the Nintendrones (including most "professional gaming critics") who fall to their knees and bow before anything with the word "Nintendo" slapped on the cover (even if it's not designed by Nintendo (new dev team recently acquired by Nintendo doesn't count)) will swarm anyone who doens't fall into Nintendrone line opinion regarding MP like killer bees.


I could think of others, but I'll mention it because I don't think I've seen anyone else mention it: Mario Sunshine. That game got dogged on a lot for a lot of reasons, but I always really appreciated the game's level design. Yeah, it was inconsistent throughout the game, and I admit I missed the exploration aspect from Mario64, but SMS in its better levels is the epitome of tight 3d platformer level design. The levels were pretty damn small but there was always so much to do; each level was like a virtual playground for platforming gameplay. I think, because of the level design, SMS was the best 3D adaptation of platforming principles ever. Too bad it was the most unpolished EAD game ever.

Your an idiot.

 

[celestial body]

Kickle cubicle on the NES. So many great stages.

 

[IJoel]

Your an idiot.

IDOT ON BOARD!

 

[jarrod]

The only difference is it's 3d.

Well, and the utter lack of any deep platforming mechanics... but who needs jumping in Metroid, right?

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

q2dm1.

I could never figure out what made q2dm1 so great. I was always a q2dm8 fan. That was my level. That and the remake of the quake 1 tourney map they released...can't remember the name of it.

 

[wazoo]

No shortcuts? I can beat the game in less then three hours. There's definately shortcuts buster!

Some guy made it in less than 2h. A very straightforward game

 

[Alf-Life]

GoldenEye 007. Frigate, Bunker... Facility. Nuff said.