What happened to Sports games?
- Thread starter Jubenhimer
- Start date
NickFire
Member
EA killed their golf series when they severed ties with Tiger Woods. They drastically under-estimated his popularity even among those who were disappointed by his adultery. He was the Michael Jordan of golf, and brought more young eyeballs to the sport than anyone in modern history and possibly ever. Considering how they recognized the value of the name Madden long after the kids playing the game knew who he was, I still can't believe they botched this to this day.
Elenchus
Banned
Just play stand and bang mode on UFC3 my man. Graphics, collision detection, and rag doll physics are all top notch. Incredibly underrated game—and engine frankly.
GrayFoxPL
Member
I love the look of Saturn's sports games. Dat Sega.
A sampling of most of the major sports titles on Sega Saturn. I'm sure you can easily find just as many good sports videogames for your classic system of choice. I say all of these hold up remarkably well and are just as fun to play today (although I'd rather play NFL 2K1/2K2 on Dreamcast than Madden 98).
It was never chiseled into stone that you have to buy the newest console, especially if the software you want isn't there. Sports gamers have been getting screwed over for years. Not only are there hardly any sports videogames made anymore, the existing franchises are simply repackaging the exact same product year in, year out. Heck, there are 4-5 FIFAs on Nintendo Wii that are, quite literally, the same game with a new date slapped on the label. And I'll bet Madden has program code that goes back a decade or more.
"Newer is Better" is a con game, and that goes double when talking about sports videogames. Spend your time and money elsewhere until the situation changes.
P.S. As for the problems with official sports licenses, why not just go back to unlicensed sports games? Any kid who grew up in the 1980s would know about that, as officially licensed sports titles were extremely rare (and usually not very good). Visual Concepts/2K did try this over a decade ago with All-Pro Football 2K8, but they completely screwed up by creating entirely fictional teams instead of, ya know, just going with "Chicago" or "Minnesota." I could imagine the play-by-play commentators making endless digs about that.
On the other hand, critics will point out that unlicensed sports titles won't sell, certainly not enough to cover the monstrous production costs modern videogames are straddled with, and they may have a point. But who decided that one has to spend $50-$100 million to create a stupid videogame? Most consumers don't care about graphics, demonstrated by the success of smartphones, Nintendo Wii, DS, and, well, nearly every console generation where the "weaker" hardware prevails. Oh, well.
PS1 had it's share too, like Coolboarders series.
Jubenhimer
Member
I think this is an important point. Too much realism can lead to a game being unplayable garbage, simply because real-life actions and movements don't translate well to buttons and sticks. In their chase for more and more realism, modern sports games just feel sluggish and awkward.
Petrae
Member
Eldrick’s fall from grace, between scandal and injury, made him a licensing nightmare... so the move away from him made sense. Even after his comeback year and recent Masters win, there are questions about his staying power as a brand, and his recent string of poor finishes bears this out.
Where EA went off the rails was with its Rory McIlroy game. The move to Frostbite was rocky at best, as the game struggled visually. The decision to not renew its licensing deal with Augusta National was poor. The Career Mode was a joke, with a weak progression system and forcing four rounds of play for every event. Yes, you could select an option to play just a few holes per round, but the rest was simulated based on your player’s attributes and it was possible to be out of contention through no fault of your own. It’s still a far more inviting experience for more casual fans than the brutal Golf Club games, but it’s nowhere near the level of polish and content that the Tiger Woods games were.
EA isn’t really hiding any more licenses. MLB is up for grabs, but nobody wants it. NBA Live is still a thing for EA, but it’s weak compared to its Gen6 counterparts and NBA 2KX destroys it yearly. NASCAR and PGA are open. There’s no NHL exclusivity, but no other publisher than EA wants to bother with it. The exclusive NFL license understandably has people rankled, but that’s more on the shitty nature of the NFL than it is on EA.
What EA is sitting on is stuff like its Street franchises. NBA and NFL Street both had their audiences and could do so again, but it’s considered too risky. Could they manage enough ROI for EA? Possibly, but not a sure thing. EA really has nothing to lose by dumping the shitty Live games and going back to Street; why it won’t is anyone’s guess.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
After NFL2K series was put out of business, it’s just been Madden, which is garbage.
FIFA has much improved from 15 years ago and has overtaken PES, for good reason.
NBA2K series is still great, albeit they do have off-years.
MLB the Show is as good as baseball has been since Ken Griffey Baseball on SNES.
There really hasn’t been a boxing game in years and FNC was crap compared to FNR3, where they watered down the series to make it easier.
Top Spin has been shelved, unfortunately.
NHL and Golf have no competition, so they’re kinda stagnant.
FIFA has much improved from 15 years ago and has overtaken PES, for good reason.
NBA2K series is still great, albeit they do have off-years.
MLB the Show is as good as baseball has been since Ken Griffey Baseball on SNES.
There really hasn’t been a boxing game in years and FNC was crap compared to FNR3, where they watered down the series to make it easier.
Top Spin has been shelved, unfortunately.
NHL and Golf have no competition, so they’re kinda stagnant.
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Jubenhimer
Member
Sports games need to start taking the GaaS route and just put out one game that's updated with patches every year. Rocket League does it, and that's an indie game. What's EA's excuse? Sports Leagues also need to start lowering their licensing fees in order for smaller companies like the platform holders to actually afford to make their own Sports games again.
And yes, we need more Arcade-like Sports titles damn it!
And yes, we need more Arcade-like Sports titles damn it!
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Yeaaaah, I miss sports games. I have no idea how the mechanics in FIFA or NBA2K are as bad as they are -- they are, frankly, terrible games that don't feel good to play.
But then, I think NBA Jam/Hangtime and Neo Turf Masters are still the pinnacle of the genre, so what do I know?
But then, I think NBA Jam/Hangtime and Neo Turf Masters are still the pinnacle of the genre, so what do I know?
Yumi
Member
For me they got less interesting as they got more realistic. But im not a big sports guy. My brother and I had a blast with early console sports games as kids with NFL Blitz and NBA Street probably being the swan songs of our times with them. He being a big sports fan has continued to enjoy them but in a different way. More data managemnet and team building simulation. He doesnt like the loot boxes either.
We both agree that we would like to see more arcade sports games but we dont know how they would hold up.
I remember an baseball game on snes that had robots and you could jump super high to catch the ball. Still think thays cool haha.
We both agree that we would like to see more arcade sports games but we dont know how they would hold up.
I remember an baseball game on snes that had robots and you could jump super high to catch the ball. Still think thays cool haha.
Petrae
Member
Super Baseball 2020. Good times. We had a thing for robot-driven sports games back then. Cyberball (Arcade, NES, Genesis) and BaseWars (NES) were a couple of others.
Dthomp
Member
I loved sports games in my youth into my early 20s, but really the thing that made me stop buying most of them was the big focus on instead of improving gameplay each year they work on their "Ultimate Team" variant and that's where all the focus goes. I LOVED the NBA 2k series, but man it's almost unplayable for me as everything there is focused around cash for upgrades and My Team packs. I understand that these modes are not necessary, but when it's the focus it's hard to ignore. MLB the show hurt this year for me, last year was the first time I put some major time into the game and loved the "Programs" they offered me elements of RPGs where this year they abandoned those for less compelling game modes but made sure to put everything useful in Diamond Dynasty into the cash shop.
Well, that's my little rant for the day
Wish we could go back to getting solid sports games with in depth franchise modes again.
Well, that's my little rant for the day
Wish we could go back to getting solid sports games with in depth franchise modes again.
It's like my 3rd post total on neogaf (I've been here a long time) just to replay to this statement.
I play volleyball competitively but damn if I wish there were a good volleyball arcade game now cause I would play the hell out of it! I've played a beach volley one on the GameCube and it was brilliant (I don't remember the name), I played Mario sports mix and I completed it (the volleyball part was awesome). Games translate so many things from real life (and vice versa) and expand with impossible to reproduce minigames, that playing those game with my teammates, with beer and pizza, the emotions were about equal from real life playing.
Petrae
Member
That GCN game is Beach Spikers, an oft-overlooked exclusive that was really quite good.
Volleyball has gotten the short end of the stick in video games. Super Spike V’Ball (NES) is still my favorite of these. Kings of the Beach (NES) was okay, too. Summer Heat Beach Volleyball (PS2) is also worth a look, as is Dig ‘n Spike on the SNES.
I played a little volleyball back in 1987-88 (sophomore year of high school), so I get where you’re coming from.
I'm so saving this list, thank you!
Unfortunately I think that volleyball is technically difficult to reproduce and the audience is not big enough to put real money into it. Beach volley tough is simpler and everyone want to see men/women in very short swimsuits
JimmyRustler
Member
I’d say they did along with local multiplayer.
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
EA buying the exclusive NFL rights had a "cooling effect" on that entire genre.
RockAndRollRaking
Neo Member
I only play FIFA and Football Manager, as I only follow football. But for me it’s less of a simulation of playing sport and more of an augmentation of watching the sport.
What’s being simulated is my experience as a fan where I want to make decisions for the whole team while watching from afar. Football Manager is like the conversations I have in the pub about formations and who to sign and FIFA is like when I’m watching a game mentally screaming at them to pass or shoot.
The only exception would be the Be a Pro mode or whatever it’s called in FIFA, but that’s so new and niche I don’t think it’s found it’s feet as a genre in its own right rather than a bastardisation of its parent genre. It’d need full body VR IMO to come close.
Daniel Thomas MacInnes
GAF's Resident Saturn Omnibus
Worse than having an exclusive NFL license was EA's strategy to force Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo to grant them de-facto monopoly status for sports games. They demanded that Sega kill its NFL/NBA2K games as a condition for supporting the Dreamcast, and when that console died, EA was able to strut with its "kingmaker" status. Get with our program or go down in flames, just like Sega.
As a direct result, Sony killed their highly successful NFL Gameday series (which was consistently better than Madden on PSX) and Microsoft's NFL Fever series was also shut down after only three installments. And we all know what happened to Sega and Visual Concepts after NFL2K5 outsold Madden.
The most irritating thing about all of this is knowing that EA Sports games, and nearly all sports videogames, haven't really advanced or improved at all over the past 15 years, if not longer. Be honest. NHL 94 is still the best hockey game ever made. World Series Baseball 98 is still the best baseball game ever made. You had more fun playing Virtua Tennis on Dreamcast and Wii Sports on Nintendo. Heck, Tecmo Super Bowl and Sensible Soccer are still a blast to play.
BTW, Sensible Days 2019 is coming this weekend, so stock up on chips and pizza.
As a direct result, Sony killed their highly successful NFL Gameday series (which was consistently better than Madden on PSX) and Microsoft's NFL Fever series was also shut down after only three installments. And we all know what happened to Sega and Visual Concepts after NFL2K5 outsold Madden.
The most irritating thing about all of this is knowing that EA Sports games, and nearly all sports videogames, haven't really advanced or improved at all over the past 15 years, if not longer. Be honest. NHL 94 is still the best hockey game ever made. World Series Baseball 98 is still the best baseball game ever made. You had more fun playing Virtua Tennis on Dreamcast and Wii Sports on Nintendo. Heck, Tecmo Super Bowl and Sensible Soccer are still a blast to play.
BTW, Sensible Days 2019 is coming this weekend, so stock up on chips and pizza.
johntown
Banned
I could care less about sports and they hold zero appeal to me and quite a good many other gamers I know.
Regardless of that EA is the main problem with sports. They don't care about making good sports games. They only care about making money which is why they pump these games out every year with little changes except to the roster.
Why more AAA devs don't make sports games is probably due to licensing issues and legal headaches that could come from trying to create one without copying any content or trademarks. They may not really see a market for it either with EA's dominance in the genre.
Petrae
Member
The Bigs games (and the Power Pros games) were pretty much the only things Take-Two did right with its exclusive MLB license agreement. MLB 2K games were easily the weakest of the lot, even during the ESPN era, so it was nice to see Take Two expand a little bit. These pick-up-and-play games were a nice break from the increasingly complex and grindy simulations that had taken over the market.
I always thought it was strange that Take Two chose its weakest sport to make exclusive, but it did shut down perhaps EA’s best sports franchise at the time (MVP Baseball)— something that Take-Two execs reveled in at the time. Of course, The Show quickly rose up and dominated the field; the 2K games never came close, even when making attempts to improve (like 2K10).
Orenji Neko
Member
I play all my sports games on the Sega Genesis, so everything's looking and playing good to me.
J-Roderton
Member
Haven't played a traditional sports game, NFL, NBA, etc in years.
Golf Club 2019 is pretty excellent, though.
Golf Club 2019 is pretty excellent, though.
Petrae
Member
After NBA Street Homecourt did so well critically, the decision to walk away from the series really made no sense unless sales were disappointing— and I think that’s the real problem here, when it comes to the arcade sports genre.
While there’s still some limited audience appeal, these games just don’t sell enough... especially from the perspective of the risk-averse video game industry. The Gen7 NBA JAM and NFL Blitz reboots weren’t huge sellers, and EA’s attempt at resurrecting another BIG franchise in SSX fell flat.
It’s why we have to rely on smaller/independent studios to deliver arcade sports games. They’re the only risk takers left. Even 2K’s decision to glom onto NBA Playgrounds (which is shit) and The Golf Club (which has limited appeal based on its difficulty and simulation focus) came after earlier releases of both series made noise and were proven to be risk-worthy. (Neither title really paid off in that respect, though.)
At least we’ve got Super Mega Baseball and Mutant Football League to try and scratch that arcade sports gaming itch... and I still fire up NBA JAM and NFL Blitz on older consoles regularly.
DiscoBandit
Neo Member
If I could just get a reboot of NFL Blitz I'd be happy. 
Hari Seldon
Member
I wish the Indie devs would pick up the slack. I would *kill* for a game that combined OOTP Baseball with an actual late 90s style light baseball gameplay simulator. Or Eastside Hockey Manager with 90s NHL gameplay. Just make the game with mod support, pay no licenses, and let fans add in everything.
Petrae
Member
If I could just get a reboot of NFL Blitz I'd be happy.
Old Blitz isn’t ever coming back, unless it’s like a Blitz: The League with fictional teams and players. The NFL won’t ever greenlight, given the focus on after-play shenanigans as violent hits. That’s part of Blitz’s DNA, and having to strip that stuff out would neuter the game.
Now, if we’re talking about rebooting Blitz: The League (or something similar), I’d be in. Tweaks can be made to the formula, but I think there’d be an audience. Moreso if an NFL competitor (like the XFL?) was to back it.
StormCell
Member
Dude, if only... and I mean complete with exaggerated player pixel models and bubble-gum chewing but a total baseball-simulation at the core. I miss the simplicity of these games.
anthraticus
Banned
Just like Fire Pro Wrestling (even though they do have the NJPW lisence, but everything else is pretty much available, thanks to the editor and content creators)
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That and when Ed O’Bannon’s lawsuit killed the NCAA football game.
Petrae
Member
The MTX for a new Fight Night game would have the potential to be far more sinister, mostly involving grind-reducing stat builders (similar to what Take-Two does with MyPlayer in NBA 2KX). Other cosmetics, like different gloves and licensed gear, would also most likely be at least partially tied to MTX.
That said, I think EA has given up on boxing, as MMA has stolen most of the sport’s popularity. I don’t expect to see Fight Night return, at least anytime soon. Perhaps an indie studio gets into the ring at some point?
anthraticus
Banned
That's been the best sports game the last 2 gens, honestly.
It was the PS3 era where the sports games really started taking a massive dump, trying to LOOK so realistic...but playing like garb and feeling very automated with these long slow animations that completely took away the control of the player.
A golf game like Hot Shots, really doesn't encounter this problem because you're basically just controlling the swing (love the 3 click method over the terrible analog swing crap, btw)
I think as far as most of the other (team) sports go, where body contact is involved and such, we're just not up to the point where the games can both look super realistic (not that I care about this) and feel great to play.
And of course, if a choice has to be made, AAA/mainstream gaming is gonna go for looks & presentation over gameplay. That's why we need indie/smaller tier devs making sports games which aren't trying to push the technology and just make great gameplay with good editors, so the fans can create all the players, ect... just like
Hari Seldon
was saying.
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