What is going on on Giant Bomb right now?

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Avallon said:
They're ex-Game Informer. How do you get more qualified than that?
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I would like to see people offering up names of non-white males that have the same level of experience for the positions as the new hires that are also good on camera. People keep saying how the argument/question of "What if they were the most qualified?" is stupid but in this case, where we can actually see the new hires past experience, I feel as if it does actually have merit.

Would it be nice if they hired non-white males? Yes of course. Would it be nice if they hired a non-white male at the expense of a more experienced candidate? No.

Also, who would you (people who don't agree with the new hires) pick in place of Dan and Jason?
 
Fracas said:
I'll be honest, I've only read a bit about the situation so I may not be fully versed in it:

Sounds like Giant Bomb didn't necessarily do anything wrong by hiring 2 white dudes (though obviously diversity is important). Samantha Allen, among others are upset that GB didn't hire people of a different gender/race. Then GB users took to Twitter and other avenues to personally attack these critics? Is that right?

Bad situation all around.
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I'm going to guess a ton of the people lashing out don't give a fuck about GB even.

iMax said:
I think it's more likely she missed out on the job because of the way she talks to people.
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She didn't apply for the job.

cDiNyAY.png
 
soultron said:
Why should I be afraid of my statement? I'm being honest, and am open for discussion.

Giant Bomb are a group of really nice guys. They have women on their podcasts occasionally and I don't think they meant any disrespect (to any female candidates) in their hiring of two fairly seasoned and experienced members of the enthusiast press.

My opinion of GB (as someone who enjoys the site) is a crew of 30-something guys who likes to talk about stuff like wrestling, American sports, and other stuff that I think make up the milieu of a boys club. I'm not saying women can't and don't enjoy these things as well. As a guy who doesn't enjoy these things, I'd never apply there since I don't feel I'd be a good cultural fit there. So I'm back to my original statement that I'm surprised there are women -- knowing what GB is like -- would want to apply there.

I'm willing to have a discussion about this and am not meaning to be insulting of any candidates who applied or towards the GB crew.
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No, I meant there's someone who just tried to chew me out for not knowing that Samantha didn't apply. I'm just trying to warning you about the use of the word "apply".
 
ChawlieTheFair said:
Because it's sort of a seperate thing, reverse racism occurs because of racism, although the def in the wiki doesn't make sense, as it assumes the dominant social group is racist (which while in this case it is, it's not always necessarily)
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Things are so overly complicated.
 
Good to know it just wasn't Neogaf being a bunch of "cunts" as Cliffy B said most developers think of the users on this site.


This whole thing is really sad, what do people want, the NFL where you are forced to interview a certain number of minorities even if you have no interest in hiring them? I am sure GB hires who they think is most qualified or is the best fit for their business, regardless of sex, race, or religion...
 
Dax01 said:
If they were just hiring friends why didn't they just ask their friends instead of putting up a job where anybody can apply?
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i think that might be a corporate thing, since giantbomb is owned by cbs? I've heard that companies often put out job listings for positions they already have people in mind for because they have to comply with some kind of fare hiring policy
 
Mushroomer25 said:
Exactly. Giant Bomb works because you genuinely believe that the crew are friends, and carry on relationships outside of the office. As a result, they hire from within existing social circles. Which - like most people - are comprised of individuals that they relate to. Picking up a random games writer who was already in the area wasn't their goal - they wanted somebody that they knew would fit.
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Maybe they need to expand this circle then. The ~50 people at their 2014 E3 show were 95% White and 95% male. That might even be low balling it
 
npa189 said:
Why does race, gender, and even religion even factor into why people get hired? White dudes are people too, just like everyone else. What are they supposed to do? Hire someone because they fit a diversity quota?
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You have to understand the history of a country and the sorts of institutions that have been established to be able to even begin to accept any answers that are given to you that you may not have otherwise found on your own.
 
Because of this, when they hire a black guy in the future, it's going to look like he got the job just because he's black. That will make him feel wanted :/

Well done, internet.
 
Unless companies are willing to take a chance on infusing some new blood, I don't really know how this will ever be fixed. The industry started as mostly white, with the exception of perhaps Dan Hsu, as far as the really visible people covering games. If experience is the major factor those same white guys will always be picked over anyone else which is why we see all the shifting of the same people from company to company, outlet to outlet.

It seems like even when they take interns though it's usually white males. It would be interesting to know what the percentage of women and minority applicants are for those positions. Is it a problem of white males simply being the only ones interested in these entry positions or something else?
 
Kaizer said:
To all people saying they hired the "best for the the job", I'll just copy my post from the GB thread:

I definitely think there's some people that are in the wrong for blaming Giant Bomb exclusively, as if they've done a big misgiving to the gaming journalist community, but I also feel that this hiring news is also just being used as a focal point for larger industry issues. As an African-American myself and someone who at one point (and still sometimes does) considered wanting to get into gaming journalism, news like this is really discouraging and the industry as a whole is disheartening as well. People say they hired the "best person for the job" but if the industry continues to play out the way it has for however long, then the "best person for the job" will NEVER be a minority, woman etc.

And why? Because the best person for the job will always be "generic white dude #3" who probably has 10+ years of experience, has lived in New York or Cali the majority of their lives and is likely already friends with the same other 100 or so people that have held the same positions for years.

So how is a minority or woman ever supposed to even reach a position where they become the "best person for the job" when the majority of the time they're never given the opportunity for any advancement or even the chance to build a portfolio of credible work on the same level as a Dan Ryckert when all the jobs all go to the same people?

It's the equivalent of Hollywood casting the same 10 or 12 guys for the same leading roles in films year after year and when the directors are questioned for their hiring procedures they go "hey man, I just hired the best guy for the role, he's a proven actor with years of experience!" Well no shit, none of the new guys ever really got a chance to show what they could do because you always go with same bets that have already been established. No one is asking for sites like GB to force diversity for the sake of diversity but the truth is that diversity in large part is never going to "naturally happen" if the industry never opens itself to "naturally change" and present new opportunities

Times are changing though and sites like Twitch and YouTube have opened up the door for people to make names for themselves in new ways that sidestep a lot of these problems but it's still an issue regardless. If history has shown us anything though, whether it be television, film, music, art, etc., if minorities or women want to have positions in these fields, they have to create their own things as the majority of the industry will never really give a fuck about you and remain a closed-off revolving door of the same faces gobbling up the lions' share of the work.

I don't want this post to come off as angry or bitter, because I love Giant Bomb and the duders like everybody else does and have been a huge fan for years. I look forward to seeing what Dan and Jason bring to the table for GB and feel they were great hires, but we can't deny the greater issue at hand and pretend it's not a problem that doesn't exist.
Click to expand...


But that also works against white males with no experience, doesn't it?
 
Castcoder said:
No, I meant there's someone who just tried to chew me out for not knowing that Samantha didn't apply. I'm just trying to warning you about the use of the word "apply".
Click to expand...

Ah, I see. I'm not targeting anyone in particular with my statement. I tried to keep it general.
 
Kaizer said:
To all people saying they hired the "best for the the job", I'll just copy my post from the GB thread:

I definitely think there's some people that are in the wrong for blaming Giant Bomb exclusively, as if they've done a big misgiving to the gaming journalist community, but I also feel that this hiring news is also just being used as a focal point for larger industry issues. As an African-American myself and someone who at one point (and still sometimes does) considered wanting to get into gaming journalism, news like this is really discouraging and the industry as a whole is disheartening as well. People say they hired the "best person for the job" but if the industry continues to play out the way it has for however long, then the "best person for the job" will NEVER be a minority, woman etc.

And why? Because the best person for the job will always be "generic white dude #3" who probably has 10+ years of experience, has lived in New York or Cali the majority of their lives and is likely already friends with the same other 100 or so people that have held the same positions for years.

So how is a minority or woman ever supposed to even reach a position where they become the "best person for the job" when the majority of the time they're never given the opportunity for any advancement or even the chance to build a portfolio of credible work on the same level as a Dan Ryckert when all the jobs all go to the same people?

It's the equivalent of Hollywood casting the same 10 or 12 guys for the same leading roles in films year after year and when the directors are questioned for their hiring procedures they go "hey man, I just hired the best guy for the role, he's a proven actor with years of experience!" Well no shit, none of the new guys ever really got a chance to show what they could do because you always go with same bets that have already been established. No one is asking for sites like GB to force diversity for the sake of diversity but the truth is that diversity in large part is never going to "naturally happen" if the industry never opens itself to "naturally change" and present new opportunities

Times are changing though and sites like Twitch and YouTube have opened up the door for people to make names for themselves in new ways that sidestep a lot of these problems but it's still an issue regardless. If history has shown us anything though, whether it be television, film, music, art, etc., if minorities or women want to have positions in these fields, they have to create their own things as the majority of the industry will never really give a fuck about you and remain a closed-off revolving door of the same faces gobbling up the lions' share of the work.

I don't want this post to come off as angry or bitter, because I love Giant Bomb and the duders like everybody else does and have been a huge fan for years. I look forward to seeing what Dan and Jason bring to the table for GB and feel they were great hires, but we can't deny the greater issue at hand and pretend it's not a problem that doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

Essentially, this.

I have enjoyed GB for the past few years, but I will not continue to financially support
them if this keeps up.

I have high expectations for GB NY.
 
Kaizer said:
To all people saying they hired the "best for the the job", I'll just copy my post from the GB thread:

I definitely think there's some people that are in the wrong for blaming Giant Bomb exclusively, as if they've done a big misgiving to the gaming journalist community, but I also feel that this hiring news is also just being used as a focal point for larger industry issues. As an African-American myself and someone who at one point (and still sometimes does) considered wanting to get into gaming journalism, news like this is really discouraging and the industry as a whole is disheartening as well. People say they hired the "best person for the job" but if the industry continues to play out the way it has for however long, then the "best person for the job" will NEVER be a minority, woman etc.

And why? Because the best person for the job will always be "generic white dude #3" who probably has 10+ years of experience, has lived in New York or Cali the majority of their lives and is likely already friends with the same other 100 or so people that have held the same positions for years.

So how is a minority or woman ever supposed to even reach a position where they become the "best person for the job" when the majority of the time they're never given the opportunity for any advancement or even the chance to build a portfolio of credible work on the same level as a Dan Ryckert when all the jobs all go to the same people?

It's the equivalent of Hollywood casting the same 10 or 12 guys for the same leading roles in films year after year and when the directors are questioned for their hiring procedures they go "hey man, I just hired the best guy for the role, he's a proven actor with years of experience!" Well no shit, none of the new guys ever really got a chance to show what they could do because you always go with same bets that have already been established. No one is asking for sites like GB to force diversity for the sake of diversity but the truth is that diversity in large part is never going to "naturally happen" if the industry never opens itself to "naturally change" and present new opportunities

Times are changing though and sites like Twitch and YouTube have opened up the door for people to make names for themselves in new ways that sidestep a lot of these problems but it's still an issue regardless. If history has shown us anything though, whether it be television, film, music, art, etc., if minorities or women want to have positions in these fields, they have to create their own things as the majority of the industry will never really give a fuck about you and remain a closed-off revolving door of the same faces gobbling up the lions' share of the work.

I don't want this post to come off as angry or bitter, because I love Giant Bomb and the duders like everybody else does and have been a huge fan for years. I look forward to seeing what Dan and Jason bring to the table for GB and feel they were great hires, but we can't deny the greater issue at hand and pretend it's not a problem that doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

There are more ways than ever to get your voice out there. It's never been easier to create your own site, start your own YouTube or Twitch channel, or even fundraise - thanks to things like Kickstarter.

If your work is good and your voice has a potential audience out there, all it takes is trying. If there's really a huge under-served audience out there, why not go serve it and grow your name that way. It might take a while, it might not happen - but it's better to try and earn it than it is to demand a chance is handed to you because of race or sex.

All this why did they hire THOSE GUYS stuff, especially from people who didn't even apply in the first place, is just ridiculous. If you want the status quo to change, try doing something about it - like giving them a viable option.
 
Reading the thread title, for a second there I thought something bad was going on at Giant Bomb, like Jeff calling it quits or something.

To my surprise it's just internet-drama lol... I'm probably too old or not attached enough to online social activities/communities (facebook/twitter etc) to not dismiss this as unimportant.
 
Balb said:
Maybe they need to expand this circle then. The ~50 people at their 2014 E3 show were 95% White and 95% male. That might even be low balling it
Click to expand...

It was 90% male I think and was also Patrick's first year of organising the guests and he has said in future he will try to get fewer white guys.
 
dark10x said:
Why should they need to specifically look for someone based on race or gender? What about all of the other people who were rejected that are also white males? Do they simply not matter?
Click to expand...

They shouldn't but if the only people passing through your hiring filters are white males then something is wrong. Either with in regards to society the industry or your company. It's not like this is highly specialised work that requires multiple degree's I imagine there's a lot of equivalent level candidates.
 
You have to think in terms of product and process. What is your desired end product. How impactful do you want to be to the audience you are reaching out to? All this talk about hiring "the best qualified" for the position takes out of context the fact that, more often than not, people can and are passed for positions for being overly qualified in the first place.

What you hire for is the "best fit" for a position. This is Management 101 stuff. Time and time again, studies show that you can make a strong and competitive product from a more diverse team. You get a fresher and more exciting end product that may be the result of "out of the box" thinking.

These rules may not apply to having people program java applications or manufacturing widgets. When it comes to journalism, though, the term "most qualified for the job" gets awfully murky. In terms of process improvement, it's a high wire act that managers have to deal with every day.
 
Darklord said:
Video games are dominated by white males. That's just how it is. If they sit down and look at 50 people and the top 2 are white males then how is that equal or fair for them to be denied a job that they deserve because of their race and gender?
Click to expand...

You're ignoring that the hiring company has something to gain as well through diversity. Having a wider spectrum of opinions brings in a larger audience - and more revenue. A white, male candidate could theoretically be more qualified, but ultimately bring less to the team than a diverse hire. It's not racism - it's just smart business.

But again - Giant Bomb is removed from this model. Their value is based on relationships, thus they gain more from bringing on a close friend than an intentionally diverse hire.
 
GavinUK86 said:
Things are so overly complicated.
Click to expand...

Might help you to venture outside your comfort zone to be empathetic to women/minorities/transgender people who deal with actual sexism, racism, ignorance, rather than act like it's just too much for you to bear.

I'm one of them. I had to fight to get to where I am because of actual prejudice in the workplace.
 
Darklord said:
Video games are dominated by white males. That's just how it is. If they sit down and look at 50 people and the top 2 are white males then how is that equal or fair for them to be denied a job that they deserve because of their race and gender?
Click to expand...

Yes, that's why it's a problem. You literally sound like you just want to throw your hands up in the air and say "oh well, nothing we can do!"
 
Red Chocobo said:
Because of this, when they hire a black guy in the future, it's going to look like he got the job just because he's black. That will make him feel wanted :/

Well done, internet.
Click to expand...

Yeah the next hire is going to face a lot of undeserved pressure.
 
what the fuck at Leigh's tweet that "anything she does is more interesting than anything GB does", I thought she was cool with GB? They sure went out of their way to defend her when everyone hated her on the E3 podcasts
 
animlboogy said:
In any other context this would be simple: it's kinda lame Giant Bomb is entirely made up of white dudes. Not world-ending, not a reason to boycott, just... Kinda lame. Makes it seem like being a friend or a friend of a friend is more important than finding interesting new hires.

Of course, we now live on the Twitter era. So we don't get to have that discussion.
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Everything on the internet needs to be extreme.

Yeah, it is lame the new hires fit into the already-established thing the site had. Would have been a great chance to mix things up and get new, different voices in there. NOT THAT THEY HAD ANY MORAL OBLIGATION TO, but it would have made the site a lot more interesting. And in THAT sense, the hires are disappointing.
 
Marcel said:
Might help you to venture outside your comfort zone to be empathetic to women/minorities/transgender people who deal with actual sexism, racism, ignorance, rather than act like it's just too much for you to bear.

I'm one of them. I had to fight to get to where I am because of actual prejudice in the workplace.
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You could do the same.

Racism is racism. Get over it.
 
Marcel said:
Might help you to venture outside your comfort zone to be empathetic to women/minorities/transgender people who deal with actual sexism, racism, ignorance, rather than act like it's just too much for you to bear.

I'm one of them. I had to fight to get to where I am because of actual prejudice in the workplace.
Click to expand...

You really gotta chill out.
 
orochi91 said:
Essentially, this.

I have enjoyed GB for the past few years, but I will not continue to financially support
them if this keeps up.

I have high expectations for GB NY.
Click to expand...

You do realise though that GB NY will just be Vinny and Alex and that they won't hire anybody, right?
 
ChawlieTheFair said:
So it's just a straight male or female? Or am I misunderstanding?
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Nah, not to do with sexuality. Just a male who identifies as a male/female who identifies as a female, compared to transgendered people who can identify with the opposite gender to their birth gender.

It just seems to be a word that has to be included more and more when there's arguments about equality. Especially when it's white, cisgendered straight males.
 
GavinUK86 said:
wut

Man, I must be getting old because all of these new-found labels are fucking stupid.
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Language evolves constantly. Language around gender and identification evolves as well. To act willfully ignorant in the face of such things is not helpful to anyone and only makes you look, well, stupid.
 
Marcel said:
Might help you to venture outside your comfort zone to be empathetic to women/minorities/transgender people who deal with actual sexism, racism, ignorance, rather than act like it's just too much for you to bear.

I'm one of them. I had to fight to get to where I am because of actual prejudice in the workplace.
Click to expand...

What's baffling is people brushing off our concerns as some twisted "reverse
racism/sexism" when it's no secret that white males are far more privileged
than others with regards to career opportunities.
 
Giant bomb is a personality run site. It's not even about the most qualified person bit who fits in with the crew. Odds are it's going to be some white guys
 
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