What is it about the Xbox Series S that worries developers?

GHG said:
Remedy have actually shipped games. Remedy are actually working on next gen games and have dev kits.

Not to be disrespectful, but there are levels to this.
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I literally said I agree with the sentiment coming from ID, just not taking Remedy seriously these days after their countless shitty business practices and after releasing one of the most buggy games this gen on consoles which even now isn't fully functional.

When they release Alan Wake 2 and it actually launches in a great state then I will take them seriously.
 
jimbojim said:
Problem is Gavin doesn't have devkits.
Edit :

He was banned on ERA saying similar crap
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Check his Twitter feed.

All you ever see is posts about Xbox. Even defends Linus talk about the PS5 SSD that Linus himzslf came out to correct.

His tweets read like rabid fanboyism, but in a nice not so obvious way.
 
DonJorginho said:
I literally said I agree with the sentiment coming from ID, just not taking Remedy seriously these days after their countless shitty business practices and after releasing one of the most buggy games this gen on consoles which even now isn't fully functional.

When they release Alan Wake 2 and it actually launches in a great state then I will take them seriously.
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Ok fair enough, I'd still say you can't discredit Remedy considering their experience and the fact that they actually have games in development for next gen.

Look at 505 for their "business practices" by the way, their hands are tied on that matter.
 
jimbojim said:
Problem is Gavin doesn't have devkits.
Edit :

He was banned on ERA saying similar crap
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A developer was banned from a forum for giving his thoughts on hardware? That is insane to me, can noone on the entire forum comment on the XSS because they also do not have dev kits?
 
Nah that take is stretching it.
The question is not if the xss will hold this gen back the question is by how much.
Every profesional knows that the Series S will affect the development of next gen games. Be it trough higher workloads, budget constrains, extra needed optimization or maybe even scrapping entire new ideas /mechanics that would only be possible on more powerful systems like XSX/PS5.

It could have been so great.
Without the existence of the Series S devs would had it way easier to let ambitious ideas become reality and let their wild ideas loose without constantly thinking about extra technical constraints or which playerbase to please.

We will see
 
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jimbojim said:
Problem is Gavin doesn't have devkits.
Edit :

He was banned on ERA saying similar crap
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He was probably banned for not naming names to mods who came to shake him down for information.

I had a copy of the Joker script long before release. B-Dubs came demanding I tell him the name of the person who gave it to me and where they worked, and I had to cite the California Shield Law to them to get them off my back.
 
From one of his tweets:

'NeoGaf has some really great people. Decent folk who just enjoy gaming.

It also has some complete tools, and can be home to some of the most toxic fanboy bullshit I've ever seen who will turn anything you say against you if even blink badly towards Sony.

Absolutely pathetic.,

And there is more in his Twitter feed. Always lambasting Sony fans. Never Xbox or both camps for being toxic. It's only the Sony camp that is.

So really, who is this guy?
He doesn't even have devkits and he admits these are just educated guesses lol. The fuck? Is he a member here on Neogaf cause I came across a few tweets where he has a go at Gaf as well including the above tweet.
 
I don't get this. They are not going to gimp games because of XSS, they will gimp settings on the XSS. All who claim this is a problem are just bitching about having to do that optimization.

Do any of these developers claiming this will hold stuff back actually have experience optimizing for 2 very similar systems with different GPUs? They have experience trying to balance ps4 vs xone. That is different.
 
Hawking Radiation said:
From one of his tweets:

'NeoGaf has some really great people. Decent folk who just enjoy gaming.

It also has some complete tools, and can be home to some of the most toxic fanboy bullshit I've ever seen who will turn anything you say against you if even blink badly towards Sony.

Absolutely pathetic.,

And there is more in his Twitter feed. Always lambasting Sony fans. Never Xbox or both camps for being toxic. It's only the Sony camp that is.

So really, who is this guy?
He doesn't even have devkits and he admits these are just educated guesses lol. The fuck? Is he a member here on Neogaf cause I came across a few tweets where he has a go at Gaf as well including the above tweet.
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Truth hurts? Any non Sony fanboy that comes here will agree with him. It is blatant unless you are actively ignoring the bias.

I understand that Sony has more consoles which will result in more fans, that has never been an issue. The issue is the unnecessary hatred for anything non Sony related.
 
Gavin Stevens, who is Odium here, the known X fan who was banned on Ree and the one who spread FUD here about PS5 was 13TF with his tweet, tweet tweet. What game did he make btw, anybody knows?
 
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Birdo said:
Twenty years ago multiplat devs had to cater to three very different consoles (PS2, GC, Xbox).

Back when devs were real men, and not whiney little Twitter girls.
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I remember back then being less about multi platform and more about exclusives. The GC/Xbox exclusives often looked amazingly better than the multi platform games being held back by the PS2.
 
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Could devs target 1444p with incredible graphics fidelity on xbox series X considering that such game need to run somehow on series S (1080p or even sub 1080p)? If not, its clear to me that series S will bottleneck first party and third party games as fuck
 
He doesn't have a single game under his belt and doesn't have dev kits

And he has been banned on gaf and era for xbox console warring.

😂😂😂

Its better to listen to senior lead programmer at ID or remedy than odium
 
Drewpee said:
Truth hurts? Any non Sony fanboy that comes here will agree with him. It is blatant unless you are actively ignoring the bias.

I understand that Sony has more consoles which will result in more fans, that has never been an issue. The issue is the unnecessary hatred for anything non Sony related.
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Mate, the shit goes both ways.
I love how everytime this topic gets brought up, the Xbox fans play the victims or get defended when they are guilty of the same shit.

There are examples of rabid Xbox fanboyism everywhere. I don't need to point out to you examples. Search through this forum and other social media platforms and you will find they are equally as toxic.
 
GHG said:
So we are now supposed to ignore developers from the likes of id, Remedy and Unity in favor of this guy?

Thanks but no thanks.
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Have you seen this guy's credentials? He's not a developer, he's actually the lead designer at indie studio Team Blur - who is using id tech 2 to power their not yet released game. That is the mighty id tech 2 from 1996 that gave us Quake 2.

He obviously knows his stuff.
 
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ManaByte said:
Sorry I'd rather listen to an armchair dev on a gaming forum explain how it will hold back next gen than an actual dev, thanks.
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U do know this odium from here who has not made a single game and doesn't have dev kits .correct??

As u said, U should Listen to real devs like senior lead programmer at ID or Remedy
 
Agnostic2020 said:
He doesn't have a single game under his belt and doesn't have dev kits

And he has been banned on gaf and era for xbox console warring.

😂😂😂

Its better to listen to senior lead programmer at ID or remedy than odium
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Yep. I thought the constant NeoGaf bashing on his Twitter feed looked suspicious. Like he is harboring a grudge of some sort.
 
GHG said:
So we are now supposed to ignore developers from the likes of id, Remedy and Unity in favor of this guy?

Thanks but no thanks.
Click to expand...

Crazy right? He's like a mascot to them now with no games under his belt after months of trolling the next gen OT, then playing victim for the house of cards he built for himself.

Hawking Radiation said:
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Yet, he was a part of the very noisy tools. You have a post history, bruh! No self reflection.
 
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Hawking Radiation said:
From one of his tweets:

'NeoGaf has some really great people. Decent folk who just enjoy gaming.

It also has some complete tools, and can be home to some of the most toxic fanboy bullshit I've ever seen who will turn anything you say against you if even blink badly towards Sony.

Absolutely pathetic.,

And there is more in his Twitter feed. Always lambasting Sony fans. Never Xbox or both camps for being toxic. It's only the Sony camp that is.

So really, who is this guy?
He doesn't even have devkits and he admits these are just educated guesses lol. The fuck? Is he a member here on Neogaf cause I came across a few tweets where he has a go at Gaf as well including the above tweet.
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Well, he has a point with this. Sony is a holy in this forum, like a religion. ;), if you say anything about them that is not super positive some fanboys directly get triggered here.
Fanboys are always a problem in forums, and sony currently has the most (bigger userbase -> more fanboys) ;)
 
Drewpee said:
This doesn't support the neogaf narrative so prepare for a ton of unnecessary hate.
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Wait for it...
Three said:
What about actual devs like id software engine devs?
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GHG said:
So we are now supposed to ignore developers from the likes of id, Remedy and Unity in favor of this guy?

Thanks but no thanks.
Click to expand...
Blue Spring said:
Lol, where do you find this bottom of the barrel "developer"?
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Hawking Radiation said:
Check his Twitter feed.

All you ever see is posts about Xbox. Even defends Linus talk about the PS5 SSD that Linus himzslf came out to correct.

His tweets read like rabid fanboyism, but in a nice not so obvious way.
Click to expand...
Hawking Radiation said:
Doesn't have any devkits.
He is a one man indie studio.
His Twitter feed is nothing but Xbox praising and NeoGaf and Sony fan bashing.

What does the above tell you.
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Agnostic2020 said:
He doesn't have a single game under his belt and doesn't have dev kits

And he has been banned on gaf and era for xbox console warring.

😂😂😂

Its better to listen to senior lead programmer at ID or remedy than odium
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, let's ignore experts at id Software, Remedy and Infinity Ward and take a word of indie developer who has never made a game and hasn't got a dev kit, lol. Also, wasn't this guy always defending Xbox on this forum?
 
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bargeparty said:
Dude's a fucking nobody dev, why do we keep posting this kind of stuff?
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I ask that to the mods many times. I don't mind people posting news but it has to be from reputable sources.

This guy got banned from ERA and NeoGaf and yet his tweets are allowed to be posted here. So in essence he is not banned and can still spread misinformation here which I believe he was banned for in the first place.
 
GHG said:
And as explained above the situation was different. Here's a summary of the series of events if you don't remember or weren't around at the time:

  • PS2 launches. No complaints from consumers or developers because it's a giant leap over the consoles in the previous generation.
  • Gamecube releases a year later. Is more powerful than the previous generation and slightly more powerful than the PS2. No developer or consumer complains because again, it offers a substantial leap over the previous generation.
  • Xbox releases around the same time. Is orders of magnitude more powerful than the previous generation and more importantly it's more powerful than both the gamecube and the PS2, nobody complains.
Now the key difference here is that all of these consoles were stand alone consoles. Developers cloud decide which console was best suited to their design goals and then built for that specific platform, nobody was telling them that they had to develop for both the Xbox as well as the much less powerful PS2 and Gamecube platforms. The Xbox and the PS2 were not part of the same console "family" where developers were mandated to develop for both if they wanted to develop for one.

Hence we saw plenty of Xbox exclusive games that quite simply couldn't be achieved on the PS2 or Gamecube. When a developer decided they were going to build only for the Xbox they made the console sing and it was clear the other 2 consoles wouldn't be capable of running the same games. The Xbox even got certain PC ports exclusively because it was the only console that was capable of running those PC games without significant cuts and compromises.

With the Xbox Series S and Series X:
  • You cannot build a game around the Series X without considering whether it will run or not on the Series S - you have to develop for both, no choice in the matter
  • You will not see any games that are fully built around the Series X and are not possible on the Series S
  • The Series S does not represent a huge jump over the current generation, especially not the pro consoles. In fact by virtue of the Series S being part of the same generation, it's the smallest "jump" we have ever had from a computational point of view on home consoles when going from one generation to the next
It's not a valid point of comparison on any level.
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I disagree. The series s has more similarities to the series x than the ps2 had versus the xbox. What im saying is at the time, it was accepted by gamers and devs that there would be differences between the games for each console. It can be done again.
 
Infested Goblin said:
Could devs target 1444p with incredible graphics fidelity on xbox series X considering that such game need to run somehow on series S (1080p or even sub 1080p)? If not, its clear to me that series S will bottleneck first party and third party games as fuck
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They could always just not include the incredible graphics fidelity settings on the series s version.

Also, while not ideal 900p is a big reduction from 1440p (2.56 times), so that and small reductions in some other settings really could solve the issue of any games that are only 1440p series x.
 
gmoran said:
Panajev is a game dev who's been posting here for 20 years. Back in the day he was an ace source of knowledge on the original xbox and the PS2. Calling him a fanboy LOL
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These things are not mutually exclusive. He's a Playstation fan, so what? It's not illegal.
 
Whoever prefers what Gavin the Kevin says about XSeS to what ID software or Remedy say about it seems to love his "confirmation bias"^^

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what O'dium aka Gavin writes, the reality in two months will be tough for those who take his gossip for real.
 
Calverz said:
I disagree. The series s has more similarities to the series x than the ps2 had versus the xbox. What im saying is at the time, it was accepted by gamers and devs that there would be differences between the games for each console. It can be done again.
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It was accepted because as a development studio you actually had a choice. PS2 doesn't meet your design goals? Don't develop for it, simple.

Now the only way around having to develop for the weaker hardware is to not develop for Xbox at all.

This is a unique scenario because developers are put in a position where the Series X will be able to do everything they want but then at the same time they have to also consider the Series S that might not. No choice but to drop development for the platform entirely if it's a sticking point. It shouldn't have to be that way.
 
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I have conspiracy theory for you...

Remedy
Infinity Ward
Id

All with devs publicly expressing concerns about Xbox.

Are these the third-party money hats we've been hearing rumours of?
 
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