Support NeoGAF

[Shmunter]

Again, you still ignore what MS has said (seems you know more about development than MS) and you still keep ignoring that what MS wants developers to do has been done all the motherfucking time (and it will continue to be done).

Much more complicated projects have come out of the door, so you can keep your concern trolling in check.

Sort of like Craig started on XsX

 

[Azurro]

[double post]

 

[Azurro]

Again, you still ignore what MS has said (seems you know more about development than MS) and you still keep ignoring that what MS wants developers to do has been done all the motherfucking time (and it will continue to be done).

Much more complicated projects have come out of the door, so you can keep your concern trolling in check.

MS says what they need to say because they have a Gamepass to sell. It doesn't make the realities of project management go away.

By the way, PC developers do the same, they work out a minimum baseline and scale up from there. Few devs actually go and develop a game for high end hardware. That's why most AAA PC games are just console versions with higher settings and that's why games like Crysis are an exception.

I'm not trolling, I don't get anything out of bad-mouthing your favorite brand for fun, I am just commenting on a topic that's interesting and does affect me because it will affect all third party development, because now the baseline won't be PS5, but rather this cross gen machine unfortunately.

 

[Montauk]

MS says what they need to say because they have a Gamepass to sell. It doesn't make the realities of project management go away.

By the way, PC developers do the same, they work out a minimum baseline and scale up from there. Few devs actually go and develop a game for high end hardware. That's why most AAA PC games are just console versions with higher settings and that's why games like Crysis are an exception.

I'm not trolling, I don't get anything out of bad-mouthing your favorite brand for fun, I am just commenting on a topic that's interesting and does affect me because it will affect all third party development, because now the baseline won't be PS5, but rather this cross gen machine unfortunately.

Agreed. The baseline could have been the considerable power of the XSX and PS5 but instead it'll be the much less Powerful XSS.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

By the way did anyone ask for 120fps? I'm a technological idiot. Don't you need a 120 herz TV for supporting that? HDMI 2.1? I don't think my 4k TV can do it.

 

[Humdinger]

How likely do you think it is that Microsoft will relent and allow Series X exclusive games?

Not likely at all. Maybe a 2% chance? There might be a rare exception, years down the road, if sales of the S tank, which would be counter-intuitive.

Anyone with half a brain knew it was true the second the S was rumored to exist.

I guess I need to check my brain size, because I figured that downscaling from XSX to S would be a fairly simple task, given the architectural similarities. It's only by reading the developer comments in this thread and comments from seemingly informed posters that I'm coming to understand that this "easy scalability" will not be easy, and that the need to build around the XSS will be a limitation on the scope/quality of AAA third-party games. Low specs matter, and upscaling is much more likely than downscaling, meaning the higher-end machines get somewhat compromised scope/quality.

I still don't know how serious those compromises will be. Minimal/mild stuff that doesn't make a big difference, or something more substantial? But it does seem clear to me that there will be some level of compromise.

And mind you, devs hold a lot of comments back because they don't want to burn bridges, and know they can get in trouble if they don't chose their words wisely when saying the truth. So when they're whispering so explicitly, shit is that bad.

Yeah, I think that's probably true. Developers know they have a public face and are accountable for what they say. They are probably careful not to talk sh*t impulsively or alienate business partners unnecessarily.

It's really frustrating isn't it?

This gen we're going to have the most power [...]. Our console is a beast.

Except....its development floor will be that of a much weaker second console we're bringing out. Whoops.

It's good to see some Xbox guys acknowledging this. If I was an XSX buyer, I'd be bothered by the fact that the XSS may hold back the scope/ambition of first-party and third-party games on the XSX. How much will that nullify the power advantage? Hard to say.

 

[Jon Neu]

Sort of like Craig started on XsX

MS says what they need to say because

Yes, we know; when a dev from MS says something, it's always a shady lie. But when Cerny speaks, it's the gospel of Saint Sony.

There's no point in discussing all of this, time will tell if developers take advantage of the Series X or not and if suddenly all multiplatforms run like a 4TF, 10GB of low bandwith RAM games.

 

[Shmunter]

Yes, we know; when a dev from MS says something, it's always a shady lie. But when Cerny speaks, it's the gospel of Saint Sony.

There's no point in discussing all of this, time will tell if developers take advantage of the Series X or not and if suddenly all multiplatforms run like a 4TF, 10GB of low bandwith RAM games.

It's not just what they say. It's the track record and public strategy that appeals.

 

[Azurro]

Yes, we know; when a dev from MS says something, it's always a shady lie. But when Cerny speaks, it's the gospel of Saint Sony.

There's no point in discussing all of this, time will tell if developers take advantage of the Series X or not and if suddenly all multiplatforms run like a 4TF, 10GB of low bandwith RAM games.

What dev from MS side? So far I just see Phil Spencer doing PR or that fanboy dev without a devkit making guesses. The rest of the devs as well as leakers seem to be a bit annoyed with the machine.

It's not that MS are evil liers and Cerny is god, it's about context and content. If Cerny says "we have 16 GB in this machine and we are using powershift to pass along power where it's needed and maintain constant power", well, there's a very, very hight possibility that that's true.

When MS goes and says "we have 16 GB of RAM and an 8 core ryzen cpu in our machine", well that also has a very very high chance of being true. However, when the same MS goes and tells you "don't worry, buy our machine, it will all scale super nicely across gens and models. We make games for Series X and will downscale from that to everything! It will all be fantastic!" well, that just raises flags and alerts your bs detector, because that's just not how software development works.


Just because you want it to be true, it doesn't mean it is.

 

[vdopey]

Yes, we know; when a dev from MS says something, it's always a shady lie. But when Cerny speaks, it's the gospel of Saint Sony.

There's no point in discussing all of this, time will tell if developers take advantage of the Series X or not and if suddenly all multiplatforms run like a 4TF, 10GB of low bandwith RAM games.

I think the fundamental thing you are missing here is that Microsoft hardly ever has a bona fide hardware engineer or Developer driving the conversation, they don't operate like this.

Sony typically doesn't either, usually Sony would put marketing people as the face, people like Jack Tretton, but they also saw the value in bringing the actual creators to the front, people like Dr Richard Marks for demonstrating the eye toy and then later the move controller.

Since Mark Cerny, who actually isn't a Sony employee has taken the hardware making reigns he has also become the main spokesperson, but he is the main guy that talks and presents to developers, he started off as a game developer, he helped setup ICE, he is one of the main consultants with Naughty Dog and he ultimately has been the hardware architect for the PS4 and PS5. He is one amazing guy put the fanboy nonsense aside and look at this guys credentials, he is a bit of a genius in his field, give the man some respect, he isn't a marketing mouth piece and I can guarantee you Microsoft would if they could try and poach him, but he isn't an employee to poach, he runs his own company and Sony afford him serious respect.

 

[Jon Neu]

It's not just what they say. It's the track record and public strategy that appeals.

I don't think any Sony fan wants to talk about track records, because Sony has a considerable larger one.

I think the fundamental thing you are missing here is that Microsoft hardly ever has a bona fide hardware engineer or Developer driving the conversation, they don't operate like this.

But still, to certain people it just doesn't matter.

he isn't a marketing mouth piece

Ehhh, not so sure about that.

Cerny has said a lot of things in favour of it's consoles and Sony's policies that are a slippery slope, and also has made some remarks that were obviously targeted at the competition.

Cerny isn't this saint above good and evil his fans want to present. The fact that he takes so much protagonism is precisely because he is a good PR spokeperson.

 

[Azurro]

Well, show me the receipts, can you post any examples of Cerny saying anything that is obvious PR marketing lies? He's a technical person and always involves himself in that capacity when doing any kind of public presentation.

 

[Self]

The fact that he takes so much protagonism is precisely because he is a good PR spokeperson.

Urgh, I find him really lacking as a PR guy. He is a technician, through and through. I would even call him a nerd.