What is it about the Xbox Series S that worries developers?

Portugeezer said:
Then we have games which won't be native 4k on XSX or PS5, wondering how low devs will be willing to go on Series S? UE5 tech demo was already 1440p on PS5... sub 1080p games down the line on the next gen Series S? I think so.
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You can easily upscale 900p or even 720p to 1080p and 99% of Xbox Series S buyers wouldn't even care or notice the difference.
 
Jon Neu said:
You can easily upscale 900p or even 720p to 1080p and 99% of Xbox Series S buyers wouldn't even care or notice the difference.
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Pretty much, if you're still playing on a 1080 television in 2020/2021 then crying that a couple games are 720p seems a bit absurd.
 
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At this point I'm just thinking people is not denying the graphical power of the console, but actually mad that can actually be right about it being as simple as downscaling internal and assets resolution.

Like, crying inside for it not to be true or whatever... What's even dumber is that every PC gamer I've read here that knows how power hungry resolution alone is supporting that possibility, yet these people is denying it because "oNlY 4 tF LmAo!!11!!1".

:messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
X-Fighter said:
Minimum requirements for Control =>
Intel Core i5-4690, 8GB RAM, GTX 780

I don't think there will be many issues if low-end PC's are still like this for Remedy games.
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The minimum spec requires 8GB RAM on a PC + a GTX 780 (minimum 3GB VRAM at 288GB/s) . What makes you think that the 8 GB @ 224 GB/s + 2GB @ 56 GB/s ram on the Series S doesn't imply that at least some optimisation is needed?
 
kyliethicc said:
I still think Remedy is making a PS5 exclusive game. I wonder if this developer working on this unannounced game is only making it for PS5 (PC too maybe.)

Maybe he didn't see the Series S until it went public.
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Em....CrossfireX for Xbox, though. So, i'm surprised by Remedy dev tweet
 
More work.

consoles used to be about optimizing for a single spec profile. Now it's just looking more and more like PC.
 
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jimbojim said:
Em....CrossfireX for Xbox, though. So, i'm surprised by Remedy dev tweet
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They have multiple teams.

Remedy is making at least 3 games. That developer isn't Crossfire X. His game is unannounced yet.

They are making a game for Epic and another game is the follow up Control that Sam Lake is writing... (which I think Sony is paying Remedy to make PS5/PC only.)
 
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Empire Strikes Back said:
Probably the memory. 8GB feels to little to be split between GPU/CPU, but I'm not a dev.
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If it were me, I'd say it's more a hamper on the creativity side. You always have that box in the back of your mind.
MS has done all they can to make this box as well rounded and easy for devs as they could, no argue over that.
It's just that it's very existence "muddies" the waters a bit.

Edit: I didn't mention it since it's brutally obvious, but it also creates more work on the porting side. It's bound to be some clauses on the table from MS' side as well.
 
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Developers aren't going to treat XSS and XSX as two completely different consoles. The money isn't there for it. In most cases Devs will either skip them entirely or half-ass it like Halo and Minecraft.
 
1) The issue is less the ease of down scaling, and far more the knowledge that original design will always include the ability to downscale. A lot of people want games that current gen and/or 4TF are literally incapable of. They aren't worried about the cake's frosting color or texture. They want a whole new cake.

2) I see a lot of comments about concern trolling. I think that misses the mark too. People are outright mad because they know their 3rd party PS5 and Series X games will be designed to run on 4 TF even after cross generation dies off.
 
I'm not a tech guru, I'm as layman as they come. So, basically, I don't know shit. Full admission.

In my eyes, they're going to have to basically QA two different versions of the game for Xbox. If they push the XSX version, they have got to make sure that it runs, and runs well, on XSS. It's going to take more than just dropping the resolution. I can see the headaches down the road.

Who knows, maybe in 2-3 years, the XSX drops the optical drive, cost has come down, and they release it as an upgraded XSS, discontinue the weaker version, and put out an upgraded XSX. They've already said they don't believe in generations, so they could do this forever.
 
killatopak said:
More work.

consoles used to be about optimizing for a single spec profile. Now it's just looking more and more like PC.
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It's worse. They still have to worry about tweaking and optimising for individual SKU's whereas on PC they offload a lot of that on to the end user. Hence the first thing you do as a PC gamer when you run a game is go to the settings menu.
 
gow3isben said:
Those suits at Microsoft just took a shit on next gen in their greed for both price and power. They always talked about how they wanted to do away generations and here is their shitty plan. It has been proven time and again how weak base consoles limit what can be done to stronger consoles. The SeX will never reach its full potential. Looks like Sony exclusives will be the only true representation of next gen. Buy more developers Sony! Secure more 3rd party exclusivity! Developers please boycott having to deal with this shitty machine so it gets removed from the market!
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I see you G
9tOXLxL.png
 
NickFire said:
1) The issue is less the ease of down scaling, and far more the knowledge that original design will always include the ability to downscale. A lot of people want games that current gen and/or 4TF are literally incapable of. They aren't worried about the cake's frosting color or texture. They want a whole new cake.

2) I see a lot of comments about concern trolling. I think that misses the mark too. People are outright mad because they know their 3rd party PS5 and Series X games will be designed to run on 4 TF even after cross generation dies off.
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Incapable why though? That's the point. What can be designed on the X that cannot be scaled back to the S. I have yet to hear one example of this pink unicorn.
 
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Hendrick's said:
Incapable why though? That's the point. What can be designed on the X that cannot be scaled back to the S. I have yet to hear one example of this pink unicorn.
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I'm not a dev, but I've been gaming since Atari. There have been thousands, if not millions of games released on a then current generation system that a prior generation system couldn't run, either realistically or at all. I'll concede that Series S is more of an in the middle thing and not a prior generation game. But its still less than 1/2 the graphical power of PS5, and a third of the power of Series X. There is no way anyone will convince me that the top software engineers cannot do more with 10 and 12 TF absolute, than 10 and 12 as long as they also work on 4. I don't care how much marketing talking points claims otherwise. We are still in the generation that started with talking points about cloud power making up for weaker hardware. I don't think it takes much reaching to see the marketing spin when it comes to down scaling. Probably accurate in a sense, but omitting that every 3rd platform and Series X game has to be designed for down scaling from day 1, rendering 4 TF the baseline.
 
ethomaz said:
It is basically a new platform you need to work on optimizations and fix bugs.

That is basically the boring and a bit costly part of the game development.

Time and costs really scares developers.
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If devs have plans for a switch pro version though, it might be worth the trouble of downscaling the graphics as they will be targeting two consoles for the downgrade.
 
It's pretty obvious - on Microsoft side they have to target two performance profiles to make sure game is playable on both , on PS5 they only have to care about one version.
Even if it's not as bad as another console it's still extra work and costs for what will be likely lowest userbase.
 
NickFire said:
I'm not a dev, but I've been gaming since Atari. There have been thousands, if not millions of games released on a then current generation system that a prior generation system couldn't run, either realistically or at all. I'll concede that Series S is more of an in the middle thing and not a prior generation game. But its still less than 1/2 the graphical power of PS5, and a third of the power of Series X. There is no way anyone will convince me that the top software engineers cannot do more with 10 and 12 TF absolute, than 10 and 12 as long as they also work on 4. I don't care how much marketing talking points claims otherwise. We are still in the generation that started with talking points about cloud power making up for weaker hardware. I don't think it takes much reaching to see the marketing spin when it comes to down scaling. Probably accurate in a sense, but omitting that every 3rd platform and Series X game has to be designed for down scaling from day 1, rendering 4 TF the baseline.
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But you are only talking about graphics which can be scaled.
 
Well, it has much slower and less RAM than the XBox One X.
It's PS4Pro RAM slow, something devs already complained about for last gen games.

It's going to be a shitshow when we actually see any games for it.
 
Hendrick's said:
But you are only talking about graphics which can be scaled.
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Easier said than done... I file the how "easy and painless it is to scale" under the same category as digital gaming will pass savings onto consumers and MTX/GaaS do not affect game design and gameplay negatively.

It is also not as simple as same as XSX just less CU's...
www.neogaf.com

What is it about the Xbox Series S that worries developers?

Does that include the developers of the console?, as thats what they are saying in the S Reveal video. Same settings at a lower resolution. And the S has been designed to do just that. What do you expect them to say in a PR video?
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com
 
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Agnostic2020 said:
Series x once fable comes out. Never series s lol .
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The only scenario that I could see where this would look attractive to me is if the trend of my daughter being interested in video games continues to grow. My switch seems to satisfy her... for now. I realize you aren't looking for advice but do you think it would be pretty chill to let the people that are genuinely excited for this announcement have their moment of fun and pull back a little on the negativity. Sony about to announce some cool shit too. We are all going to get what we want. We are all here for the same thing, to enjoy our toys. Hope you have a goodnight.
 
That it sucks. I for one do not believe that the difference in power between s and x is only resolution, the games will be different and They will be botched from One system to the other. I am picturing the same mediocre games from microsoft only half assed in quality from its bigger brother series x. Children will deal with disappointment when mommy picks up the handicapped xbox series version.
 
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I think the 8GB is fine compared to the X's 10GB for game data, the smaller output buffer size will require less memory. I'm wondering why the OS memory size is so much different? 6GB vs 2GB, what more can the X do in terms of OS features?
1AU4scL.jpg

?
 
Hendrick's said:
But you are only talking about graphics which can be scaled.
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Denser, dynamic geometry, so resolution is sub 4K and instead you use the freed up resources to make your game look more realistic.

Next gen can have rich, dense environments that move in response to what's happening in the world, with realistically modelled clouds that changes the worlds lighting over time.

None of that's easy to scale down.
 
It's scaled down to the target resolution of 1080p/1440p. For those resolutions you don't need more than 10 GB of RAM with higher bandwidths to achieve the target resolutions.


So having less bandwidth on Ram not a issue plus they will use SSD as VRAM as well.



Plus Next infinity ward game will be on PC supporting wide range of hardware specs.


Also how come devs with Sony marketing deal are the only ones speaking out?
 
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Three said:
The minimum spec requires 8GB RAM on a PC + a GTX 780 (minimum 3GB VRAM at 288GB/s) . What makes you think that the 8 GB @ 224 GB/s + 2GB @ 56 GB/s ram on the Series S doesn't imply that at least some optimisation is needed?
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Because a PC with 8GB of RAM uses way more memory than a console.

GTX 780 is also around 4TF, but a way older architecture than RDNA2.

So I don't think the XSS will need a lot of the extra optimizing that they wouldn't already be doing for the PC
 
RevenantX said:
It's scaled down to the target resolution of 1080p/1440p. For those resolutions you don't need more than 10 GB of RAM with higher bandwidths to achieve the target resolutions.


So having less bandwidth on Ram not a issue plus they will use SSD as VRAM as well.



Plus Next infinity ward game will be on PC supporting wide range of hardware specs.


Also how come devs with Sony marketing deal are the only ones speaking out?
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Yikes.Stop accusing devs. These are big third party publishers where these individual devs in there get nothing from either sony or ms. Stop being an armchair dev on gaf and listen to actual devs
 
If its that much of a compromise to their vision then skip the Xbox AND PC market all together and make it Sony exclusive. That's what Quantum Error is doing.
 
AgentP said:
I think the 8GB is fine compared to the X's 10GB for game data, the smaller output buffer size will require less memory. I'm wondering why the OS memory size is so much different? 6GB vs 2GB, what more can the X do in terms of OS features?
1AU4scL.jpg

?
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That 6GB isn't reserved for the OS, just a part of it.
 
As a marketing standpoint, they have done terrible.

It will generate a lot of confusion on which console does what, they should have named the X as Pro, which is essentially what it is, the S model should have a cd tray and not limited to digital purchases only. Its a huge shot in the foot to make you buy the X model, just because it has a cd tray at 499$, since most people wont really care for higher resolutions because most people dont have 4k tvs.

And considering the performance difference between both consoles could hinder both consoles at the long term.

I wouldnt be surprised if PS5 came out at 299$/399$, and if that happens it would once again destroy the Xbox.
 
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AgentP said:
The GPU more or less scales with the graphic options (less pixels, draw distance, worse shadows, etc.) but the memory bandwidth is less clear. While the image buffers will be smaller, everything else is the same. The models, assets, etc. all have to be moved around in memory and is the same on both S and X, so we have a bottleneck on the S. You might see 60fps on X and 30fps on S.
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Which is absolutely reasonable as would be dropping the resolution a bit. This is a casual system for people not willing to pay 200 more for better graphics. They wont complain. These whiney devs are ridiculous. Target the best performance on the best machine, scale down to the casual box and cut shit out or scale even further if you can't hit the highest performance. Nothing there impacts the game design or performance on the high end. They are confusing identical architecture with features missing, to inferior different architecture. Do any of these people have actual expertise in tuning performance for different GPUs? Or do they just want likes and shares from the "XsX is gonna gimp next gen crowd?"
 
Whitecrow said:
The power gap is too big to just make the same game at lower resolution.
A lot of assets will need to be different between platforms, and that's a fucking hell.
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Explain. I can run my PC games at 4k or 1080/720 on 2 different GPUs. Same game performance scaled down from OK GPU to shitty GPU. In the past we could download high res textures to run the games at higher res.

With an all digital system with lower specs, why wouldn't you run a batch process to scale down the graphics assets then provide the S package that takes up less space? How is that hell, it's just fucking data and math.
 
I'm not sure why it's so hard to get. What's easier: build a game for S and just use higher resolution for X. Or get into the cutting and down-porting game?
 
ricardo_sousa11 said:
As a marketing standpoint, they have done terrible.

It will generate a lot of confusion on which console does what, they should have named the X as Pro, which is essentially what it is, the S model should have a cd tray and not limited to digital purchases only. Its a huge shot in the foot to make you buy the X model, just because it has a cd tray at 499$, since most people wont really care for higher resolutions because most people dont have 4k tvs.

And considering the performance difference between both consoles could hinder both consoles at the long term.

I wouldnt be surprised if PS5 came out at 299$/399$, and if that happens it would once again destroy the Xbox.
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you think Sony is going to lose $200+/$100+? That's not happening.
 
They just discontinued a 4.5tf console, and people are excited for a new 4tf one?

Developers already making next gen exclusives have just found out they'll need to make them work on a 4tf console If they plan to release on Xbox. The previous understanding was that 8tf was the minimum spec across next gen. It's a huge downgrade and folks not aiming for 4k don't have many options for scaling it so far back.

And that super fast loading you built gameplay around? Yer, this has shit slow ram so maybe rehire that guy who writes the loading screen tips.

Shitty move by Microsoft for developers, but arguably pro consumer given many can't afford a $500 console right now. But Microsoft are being disingenuous letting people expect real next gen games on this. It's basically Xbox one X, attempt 2.
 
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